Abyss Rewards Update [Merged Threads]

And you wonder why people are leaving the game. Or maybe you don't....

Comments

If it’s about being fair.

Kabam players who have not completed the abyss can now base decisions off their Abyss Crystals when those who made decisions prior to this announcement are at a disadvantage. If the players who are bemoaning the loss of relative shards to others are awarded those shards I suggest that you prevent them from opening those crystals until they have used their gems, stones and t5cc acquired from the Abyss.
You do realize the players who’ve already 100% will also be getting the added Nexus crystal? It will be delivered and claimed in mail, and they too can also base their decision on whichever t5cc they have waiting.

Only difference at this point is the countless who aren’t 100%, now get less rewards.
Oh so I get to unuse my AGs and T5c that I used weeks/months ago? I missed that part of the announcement
You're argument for players not to get the same shards is because you used your rewards already ?

Quite frankly this is a ridiculous thing to say.

You chose to do Abyss with the rewards as they were. You have gained an advantage over other players by doing abyss early as well, which is part of the appeal for so many to have done it, to get those R3 champs as well as prestige purposes.

You argument is along the lines of someone saying this
"Kabam should just not give you the crystal. You accepted the rewards as there were right. So you had no issue with the initial rewards. "

Honestly it comes across as selfish and self entitled.

Had Kabam left things as they were this thread wouldn't even have existed. Usually changes to rewards never leave players missing out. Even when changes to rewards were made across previous acts all players got bonus rewards via in game mail.

I have not done abyss yet and tbh i'm not overly fussed, yeah its disappointing to know i don't get the same rewards for completing the same content as others. But overall I'm happy with the direction taken with the new crystal.

I'd be fine with them leaving the 15k in. It's not like I made this decision. Just pointing out that people that haven't done it aren't the only ones that miss out is all.

People who haven't done it yet chose not to do it yet. Sometimes knocking stuff out early works in your favor, sometimes it doesn't. It's far from some great injustice when it doesn't though. In the end everyone wins with the crystal some just have different advantages.
Sorry but i don't see that as a valid argument. Its akin to complaining you spun your crystals before x champion was added. The whole reason you did that content/ used the resources was to gain an advantage. You also don't actually lose anything. Its not like kabam have said well we only give this new crystal to new players who haven't done the content.

They also get the benefit of choosing the class of the crystal based on the T5CC they have where as new players don't so that then balances it out. Its basically allowing them to choose a r3 champion. New players will have to still hope the t5cc gives them the class for the crystal they choose.

Like i said, i'm happy with the new crystal and what this means hopefully going forward, but i can see why people are upset as they are basically being given less rewards. By the time most get around to 100% Abyss id imagine 6* to be widely available
Oh so being at a disadvantage in making decisions is fine as long as it's the people who did stuff early bc well who cares about those guys?

I'll reiterate again I've not once said I think they should remove the 15k shards or agree with it being done. I just don't think it's anywhere near the big deal some people are making it out to be

how are they at a disadvantage. They gained an advantage. No one forced them to make those rank ups. No one forced them to use the AG. They choose to do that.

You seeing it as a disadvantage is the same as someone complaining they used their AG on a champion and then pulled the champion in their next crystal. Things like this happen in the game and decisions are based on the exact moment in the game. Some people only use resources on champions they want to take up. Others do for some purpose be it to beat a certain piece of content or in this case the Prestige race.

Ofc its a big deal, its always a big deal. Do you even play this game. When you don't allow even access to stuff or people gain a perceived advantage there is always backlash. Why even be surprised at this. Take the rifts situations recently or Look at when AW rewards gave double rewards, or when the challenge event allowed people to do it twice getting double rewards or when ever compensation or rewards are like Hotel MODOK split based on Title. Atleast with the stuff related to your title it based on your progression in the game. This situation is people are getting less rewards for the same content. So backlash was to be expected and should of been expected by kabam

Worknprogress

If it’s about being fair.

Kabam players who have not completed the abyss can now base decisions off their Abyss Crystals when those who made decisions prior to this announcement are at a disadvantage. If the players who are bemoaning the loss of relative shards to others are awarded those shards I suggest that you prevent them from opening those crystals until they have used their gems, stones and t5cc acquired from the Abyss.
You do realize the players who’ve already 100% will also be getting the added Nexus crystal? It will be delivered and claimed in mail, and they too can also base their decision on whichever t5cc they have waiting.

Only difference at this point is the countless who aren’t 100%, now get less rewards.
Oh so I get to unuse my AGs and T5c that I used weeks/months ago? I missed that part of the announcement
You're argument for players not to get the same shards is because you used your rewards already ?

Quite frankly this is a ridiculous thing to say.

You chose to do Abyss with the rewards as they were. You have gained an advantage over other players by doing abyss early as well, which is part of the appeal for so many to have done it, to get those R3 champs as well as prestige purposes.

You argument is along the lines of someone saying this
"Kabam should just not give you the crystal. You accepted the rewards as there were right. So you had no issue with the initial rewards. "

Honestly it comes across as selfish and self entitled.

Had Kabam left things as they were this thread wouldn't even have existed. Usually changes to rewards never leave players missing out. Even when changes to rewards were made across previous acts all players got bonus rewards via in game mail.

I have not done abyss yet and tbh i'm not overly fussed, yeah its disappointing to know i don't get the same rewards for completing the same content as others. But overall I'm happy with the direction taken with the new crystal.

I'd be fine with them leaving the 15k in. It's not like I made this decision. Just pointing out that people that haven't done it aren't the only ones that miss out is all.

People who haven't done it yet chose not to do it yet. Sometimes knocking stuff out early works in your favor, sometimes it doesn't. It's far from some great injustice when it doesn't though. In the end everyone wins with the crystal some just have different advantages.
Sorry but i don't see that as a valid argument. Its akin to complaining you spun your crystals before x champion was added. The whole reason you did that content/ used the resources was to gain an advantage. You also don't actually lose anything. Its not like kabam have said well we only give this new crystal to new players who haven't done the content.

They also get the benefit of choosing the class of the crystal based on the T5CC they have where as new players don't so that then balances it out. Its basically allowing them to choose a r3 champion. New players will have to still hope the t5cc gives them the class for the crystal they choose.

Like i said, i'm happy with the new crystal and what this means hopefully going forward, but i can see why people are upset as they are basically being given less rewards. By the time most get around to 100% Abyss id imagine 6* to be widely available
Oh so being at a disadvantage in making decisions is fine as long as it's the people who did stuff early bc well who cares about those guys?

I'll reiterate again I've not once said I think they should remove the 15k shards or agree with it being done. I just don't think it's anywhere near the big deal some people are making it out to be
how are they at a disadvantage. They gained an advantage. No one forced them to make those rank ups. No one forced them to use the AG. They choose to do that.

You seeing it as a disadvantage is the same as someone complaining they used their AG on a champion and then pulled the champion in their next crystal. Things like this happen in the game and decisions are based on the exact moment in the game. Some people only use resources on champions they want to take up. Others do for some purpose be it to beat a certain piece of content or in this case the Prestige race.

Ofc its a big deal, its always a big deal. Do you even play this game. When you don't allow even access to stuff or people gain a perceived advantage there is always backlash. Why even be surprised at this. Take the rifts situations recently or Look at when AW rewards gave double rewards, or when the challenge event allowed people to do it twice getting double rewards or when ever compensation or rewards are like Hotel MODOK split based on Title. Atleast with the stuff related to your title it based on your progression in the game. This situation is people are getting less rewards for the same content. So backlash was to be expected and should of been expected by kabam

And you've chose not to do the content yet. Those of us used those resources with the information that abyss rewards were as they were staying. Champions getting added to the game and pulling champions you awakened is part of the game at all times, rewards changing is not necessarily.

It's absolutely is a disadvantage. One that I'm overly upset over? Not really. But acting like only one side loses out is flat out disingenuous.

None of this is that big of a deal especially if you weren't doing Abyss anytime soon as by the time you'd be doing it 6* shards will be far more common. They're starting cav difficulty testing in a couple of weeks.

Billie

This nickle-and-dime mentality is what is wrong with Kabam. Exploring AOL is so many units and the need to take away 1.5 of a 6 star of a basic pool that is mostly trash is just flat out wrong and unnecessary.This give and take that kabam always does separates them from other games in a very bad way. I’ve started playing other games after exploring act 6 and was shocked by the contrast with how resources are intentionally sparse in mcoc. Too bad, they had a nice product but can’t keep from fumbling it.

culturalreference1

@culturalreference1
they are still getting the crystal.

Ofc his decisions would be different. As is everyones decision with anything in this game. The game is constantly changing. He could of pulled another champ that he would of rather R3 in his next 6* crystal.

Players awaken champions all the time to find the next pull is the very champion they just awakened. Or they r5 a champion to then pull a better champion to r5 on the next crystal.

The point is he made the decision to not only tackle the content as is with the rewards in question but then also use those materials for a specific purpose which was to have a R3 champion. This would of affected his prestige, his ability to do content with more ease. Although not hugely different a R3 champion is still better then a R2 or a 5* R5.

generally speaking players who don't rush content are in a better space to utilize the rewards better because they will be pulling new champions or duping champions which all have an affect on choices.

Arguing you should be entitled to something for rushing content and gaining an advantage is just ridiculous. Doom is now available in the basic pool so those 65k 6* shards could pull one of the top prestige champs in the game. But when Abyss first came out you couldn't get doom then. Should all those players then demand they get to reroll those crystals so they can have a chance of getting doom and taking him up instead ?

yes, meanwhile other players chose not to finish aol early and the game changed. so where does that leave us if your stance is that he's wrong because he chose to rank who he chose to rank?

also i don't see anybody arguing that anybody is owed anything, i think the only argument truly is if the 15k shards is meaningful enough or not to warrant this kind of response.

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Shaanenegan

You do still have to choose the class before you open the T5CC though.
I'm sorry, but seriously? You have to select the class of your 6* champion before you open the rarest resource in the game? Essentially you're requiring that players select a class and hope they obtain materials necessary for rank up. If RNG on the T5CC doesn't align with your selection, the nexus is suddenly worthless. Also if a player has already completed the Abyss 100%, their compensation package following this change won't have this selection disadvantage because they've already opened T5CC crystals. It will only affect players going forward.

Is that how you're intending for this change to work?

Only Kabam can find a way to make an Epic move a monumental disaster.

Bidzy7

@culturalreference1
they are still getting the crystal.

Ofc his decisions would be different. As is everyones decision with anything in this game. The game is constantly changing. He could of pulled another champ that he would of rather R3 in his next 6* crystal.

Players awaken champions all the time to find the next pull is the very champion they just awakened. Or they r5 a champion to then pull a better champion to r5 on the next crystal.

The point is he made the decision to not only tackle the content as is with the rewards in question but then also use those materials for a specific purpose which was to have a R3 champion. This would of affected his prestige, his ability to do content with more ease. Although not hugely different a R3 champion is still better then a R2 or a 5* R5.

generally speaking players who don't rush content are in a better space to utilize the rewards better because they will be pulling new champions or duping champions which all have an affect on choices.

Arguing you should be entitled to something for rushing content and gaining an advantage is just ridiculous. Doom is now available in the basic pool so those 65k 6* shards could pull one of the top prestige champs in the game. But when Abyss first came out you couldn't get doom then. Should all those players then demand they get to reroll those crystals so they can have a chance of getting doom and taking him up instead ?

yes, meanwhile other players chose not to finish aol early and the game changed. so where does that leave us if your stance is that he's wrong because he chose to rank who he chose to rank?

also i don't see anybody arguing that anybody is owed anything, i think the only argument truly is if the 15k shards is meaningful enough or not to warrant this kind of response.

Do you expect players to be reimbursed if they use their AGs on champions then awaken the very same champion in the next crystal ?

Do you expect players to be entitled to rank down tickets if they ranked up a champion and then a new more powerful champion was added to the crystal/game and they pulled them ?

Do you expect people to be reimbursed for resources used to finish content because new champions have been released that means you need to use less items as there is better counters ? r4 starlords, Gwenpool etc in LoL compared to r5 Aegon

Because that's what your basically saying should happen. After all that is the fairness some people seem to be arguing for.

Shaanenegan

Really makes me want to blow more units on getting this 100%......🤦🏻‍♂️

So.... Again, lets cater to the players that beat content early on and SCREW those that have to wait a bit to do it!! Unbelievable!!

So as a player that already has 100% AoL, they get the original rewards plus the selector?? And for someone that hasn't done it yet (i.e. Me), I get the updated rewards with less shards....

And you wonder why the community is pissed!!!

They just cant make a pro-player move. Prolly due to allergies.

Worknprogress

@culturalreference1
they are still getting the crystal.

Ofc his decisions would be different. As is everyones decision with anything in this game. The game is constantly changing. He could of pulled another champ that he would of rather R3 in his next 6* crystal.

Players awaken champions all the time to find the next pull is the very champion they just awakened. Or they r5 a champion to then pull a better champion to r5 on the next crystal.

The point is he made the decision to not only tackle the content as is with the rewards in question but then also use those materials for a specific purpose which was to have a R3 champion. This would of affected his prestige, his ability to do content with more ease. Although not hugely different a R3 champion is still better then a R2 or a 5* R5.

generally speaking players who don't rush content are in a better space to utilize the rewards better because they will be pulling new champions or duping champions which all have an affect on choices.

Arguing you should be entitled to something for rushing content and gaining an advantage is just ridiculous. Doom is now available in the basic pool so those 65k 6* shards could pull one of the top prestige champs in the game. But when Abyss first came out you couldn't get doom then. Should all those players then demand they get to reroll those crystals so they can have a chance of getting doom and taking him up instead ?

yes, meanwhile other players chose not to finish aol early and the game changed. so where does that leave us if your stance is that he's wrong because he chose to rank who he chose to rank?

also i don't see anybody arguing that anybody is owed anything, i think the only argument truly is if the 15k shards is meaningful enough or not to warrant this kind of response.
Do you expect players to be reimbursed if they use their AGs on champions then awaken the very same champion in the next crystal ?

Do you expect players to be entitled to rank down tickets if they ranked up a champion and then a new more powerful champion was added to the crystal/game and they pulled them ?

Do you expect people to be reimbursed for resources used to finish content because new champions have been released that means you need to use less items as there is better counters ? r4 starlords, Gwenpool etc in LoL compared to r5 Aegon

Because that's what your basically saying should happen. After all that is the fairness some people seem to be arguing for.

All of those decisions are made knowing the possibility of those outcomes in advance. This is not the same thing.

CoatHang3r

@DNA3000 that isn’t something I am arguing for, that is possibly what fairness demands when taken to its logical conclusion. Some people get 15k shards others get to make informed decisions. Which is more powerful?
This is only true for one specific definition of fairness the game doesn't incorporate. If I spend rank up resources today, and then a new champ comes out tomorrow that players get to rank up, but I can't because I already spent those rank up resources, the trade off is between the utility value of the rank up and the future value of a potentially better set of choices of rank up. On average these are presumed to be not equal in any sense of the word, but rather offsetting. We don't try to determine if that trade is equal by any particular calculation, we simply state this is the standard of fairness in a game that is a moving target.

If the crystal was just put up for sale, and everyone who completed Abyss 100% had the ability to buy it, this would be considered a "fair" change to the game by that same standard, even though past players might have had less choices than future players. Since this is the standard of fairness when it comes to future changes to the game, then the alternate version where the people who already completed and received 100% Abyss rewards got additional rank up materials on top of the crystal would not be fair by this standard, as that would be so much more material than the standard situation it couldn't be considered a reasonable alternate version of that standard. It would only be fair by a definition of fair that would be broken everywhere else in the game comparing the past and the future situation of players.

Not to say I do not agree with your argument. There is no fairness in this situation when updating rewards for currently relevant content.

You’re welcome to straw man the argument for advantages and equality with one of design and champion additions but it’s still going to be a straw man any way you put it.

The resource comment was used to introduce the concept that changes in rewards must be equal in effect, or that 15k shards is game changing; it certainly is not comparative to an addition of a champion to the pool.

I’d be all for a change that put everyone on equal footing however that’s impossible given people Have already made decisions based on rewards from end game content that affects their accounts for quite a time to come. Complaining that people have 15k less shards than someone who has been denied an opportunity to make an informed decision is extremely short sighted and selfishly petty since they have such a huge advantage over someone with 15k shards.

There is no going back from this point to make people whole, people are not disadvantaged by being given a class specific nexus crystal with 10 options for 15k shards when compared to people who have made decisions relating to catalysts, gems and stones absent the abyss crystal’s impact and have 15k more shards than them.

TLDR;
BFD if you think you‘re behind 15k shards from someone else, when that someone else is behind the most valuable reward in the contest, choice.

Bidzy7

And you've chose not to do the content yet. Those of us used those resources with the information that abyss rewards were as they were staying. Champions getting added to the game and pulling champions you awakened is part of the game at all times, rewards changing is not necessarily.

It's absolutely is a disadvantage. One that I'm overly upset over? Not really. But acting like only one side loses out is flat out disingenuous.

None of this is that big of a deal especially if you weren't doing Abyss anytime soon as by the time you'd be doing it 6* shards will be far more common. They're starting cav difficulty testing in a couple of weeks.

Lol

go read DNA's post because clearly your missing the point.

One side does lose out. one side has 15k less shards for completing the same content. Everything else is all RNG dependent.

Shaanenegan

@Kabam Miike
A buff is supposed to add things. Not remove things to add different ones. You have a chance to do something right by the community. Many players myself included are waiting for the detailed roadmap and July 4th deals to determine if we continue playing this game. As a company you can start this process by simply keeping it fair and adding to the rewards. Let the 15K shards stay because others have already received them and add this on top. It’s not game breaking, it will help our perception of your company, and it will make us start to believe in you as a whole. A big chunk of this community is on the verge of quitting and this only serves as more fuel to the fire. Cmon dude it’s only fair that everyone gets the same rewards in full for the same piece of content. Do the right thing here.

C'mon dude, seriously. Have they ever been fair?

FYI: image below defines fair. (Courtesy: Google)

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DNA3000

You’re welcome to straw man the argument for advantages and equality with one of design and champion additions but it’s still going to be a straw man any way you put it.

I presented an argument that all but precisely describes the way the game works. By definition, it cannot be a straw man because I'm attributing it to myself and to no one else. Either you don't understand what straw man arguments are, or you think I'm unqualified to present my own position accurately and need to correct me. In which case, you should correct my error in how I characterized my own position.

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CoatHang3r

@culturalreference1
they are still getting the crystal.

Ofc his decisions would be different. As is everyones decision with anything in this game. The game is constantly changing. He could of pulled another champ that he would of rather R3 in his next 6* crystal.

Players awaken champions all the time to find the next pull is the very champion they just awakened. Or they r5 a champion to then pull a better champion to r5 on the next crystal.

The point is he made the decision to not only tackle the content as is with the rewards in question but then also use those materials for a specific purpose which was to have a R3 champion. This would of affected his prestige, his ability to do content with more ease. Although not hugely different a R3 champion is still better then a R2 or a 5* R5.

generally speaking players who don't rush content are in a better space to utilize the rewards better because they will be pulling new champions or duping champions which all have an affect on choices.

Arguing you should be entitled to something for rushing content and gaining an advantage is just ridiculous. Doom is now available in the basic pool so those 65k 6* shards could pull one of the top prestige champs in the game. But when Abyss first came out you couldn't get doom then. Should all those players then demand they get to reroll those crystals so they can have a chance of getting doom and taking him up instead ?

yes, meanwhile other players chose not to finish aol early and the game changed. so where does that leave us if your stance is that he's wrong because he chose to rank who he chose to rank?

also i don't see anybody arguing that anybody is owed anything, i think the only argument truly is if the 15k shards is meaningful enough or not to warrant this kind of response.
Do you expect players to be reimbursed if they use their AGs on champions then awaken the very same champion in the next crystal ?

Do you expect players to be entitled to rank down tickets if they ranked up a champion and then a new more powerful champion was added to the crystal/game and they pulled them ?

Do you expect people to be reimbursed for resources used to finish content because new champions have been released that means you need to use less items as there is better counters ? r4 starlords, Gwenpool etc in LoL compared to r5 Aegon

Because that's what your basically saying should happen. After all that is the fairness some people seem to be arguing for.

And you've chose not to do the content yet. Those of us used those resources with the information that abyss rewards were as they were staying. Champions getting added to the game and pulling champions you awakened is part of the game at all times, rewards changing is not necessarily.

It's absolutely is a disadvantage. One that I'm overly upset over? Not really. But acting like only one side loses out is flat out disingenuous.

None of this is that big of a deal especially if you weren't doing Abyss anytime soon as by the time you'd be doing it 6* shards will be far more common. They're starting cav difficulty testing in a couple of weeks.
Lol

go read DNA's post because clearly your missing the point.

One side does lose out. one side has 15k less shards for completing the same content. Everything else is all RNG dependent.

False, one side has 15k less shards and the other is short an informed decision that affects the rarest resources in the game including t5cc, 6* awakening gems, signature stones and above all else the opportunity to target a champion to use those resources on. There are also ancillary disadvantages that impact which gem you use where and which t5cc you target from act 6.

CoatHang3r

You’re welcome to straw man the argument for advantages and equality with one of design and champion additions but it’s still going to be a straw man any way you put it.
I presented an argument that all but precisely describes the way the game works. By definition, it cannot be a straw man because I'm attributing it to myself and to no one else. Either you don't understand what straw man arguments are, or you think I'm unqualified to present my own position accurately and need to correct me. In which case, you should correct my error in how I characterized my own position.

So you presented an argument that had nothing to do with the argument or question you quote. Totally not a straw man because reasons and rhetoric, gotcha.

BAMBAM232

Once again Kabam had the opportunity to engage with the playing community and take feedback feedback and make things right.

Just goes to show
1. you don't listen to the playing community
2. You are so out of touch with the players

Once again you stuff things up. you really know how to alienate your customers.

I have completed 100% AOL and I don't think it is fair to those who haven't completed the content that they miss out on the 15k 6 star shards - even foe end game players that is a significant amount. It is wrong plain and simple.

The other complaint I have is that you should of included a T5CC selector crystal as part of the rewards

While the new class based 1/10 crystal is good it doesn't go far enough

I have finished all content and have 4 T5CC that I can't use due to pulling trash champs and having duplicate T5CC

After this announcement I have no faith in your road map or future of the game....

culturalreference1

@culturalreference1
they are still getting the crystal.

Ofc his decisions would be different. As is everyones decision with anything in this game. The game is constantly changing. He could of pulled another champ that he would of rather R3 in his next 6* crystal.

Players awaken champions all the time to find the next pull is the very champion they just awakened. Or they r5 a champion to then pull a better champion to r5 on the next crystal.

The point is he made the decision to not only tackle the content as is with the rewards in question but then also use those materials for a specific purpose which was to have a R3 champion. This would of affected his prestige, his ability to do content with more ease. Although not hugely different a R3 champion is still better then a R2 or a 5* R5.

generally speaking players who don't rush content are in a better space to utilize the rewards better because they will be pulling new champions or duping champions which all have an affect on choices.

Arguing you should be entitled to something for rushing content and gaining an advantage is just ridiculous. Doom is now available in the basic pool so those 65k 6* shards could pull one of the top prestige champs in the game. But when Abyss first came out you couldn't get doom then. Should all those players then demand they get to reroll those crystals so they can have a chance of getting doom and taking him up instead ?

yes, meanwhile other players chose not to finish aol early and the game changed. so where does that leave us if your stance is that he's wrong because he chose to rank who he chose to rank?

also i don't see anybody arguing that anybody is owed anything, i think the only argument truly is if the 15k shards is meaningful enough or not to warrant this kind of response.
Do you expect players to be reimbursed if they use their AGs on champions then awaken the very same champion in the next crystal ?

Do you expect players to be entitled to rank down tickets if they ranked up a champion and then a new more powerful champion was added to the crystal/game and they pulled them ?

Do you expect people to be reimbursed for resources used to finish content because new champions have been released that means you need to use less items as there is better counters ? r4 starlords, Gwenpool etc in LoL compared to r5 Aegon

Because that's what your basically saying should happen. After all that is the fairness some people seem to be arguing for.

you've clearly missed my point. choosing not to do something early is still a choice made by the player, not by any many other external factors, with the exception of maybe the ogdp fight. if you're saying people should live with the consequences of their actions, fantastic, i agree. the people who have yet to fully explore aol, by and large, chose/choose not to.

Shaanenegan

Sure I will.
1) The 10 champ Nexus crystal is an excellent move. I applaud whoever thought of it, that person deserves to be applauded.
2) The nexus crystal class selection should Happen after summoners have opened the t5cc. Whoever though that should not happen, please think again. Players are anyways disappointed.
3) Dont take away the 15k shards. There is already a prize for top 200 ppl finishing this event. There are ppl saving units & BC to do this event. Whoever came up with this idea needs to rethink if they want to be in this line of work. So does the person who approved this.

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DNA3000

You’re welcome to straw man the argument for advantages and equality with one of design and champion additions but it’s still going to be a straw man any way you put it.
I presented an argument that all but precisely describes the way the game works. By definition, it cannot be a straw man because I'm attributing it to myself and to no one else. Either you don't understand what straw man arguments are, or you think I'm unqualified to present my own position accurately and need to correct me. In which case, you should correct my error in how I characterized my own position.
So you presented an argument that had nothing to do with the argument or question you quote. Totally not a straw man because reasons and rhetoric, gotcha.

Is there anywhere on Earth where this actually works? So i can avoid it in the future?

Mcord11758

This is a spenders game, this update benefits the spenders. It doesn’t hurt the non spenders so helps some doesn’t hurt others. Net no impact on game. We move on and wait for roadmap

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LeNoirFaineant

If it’s about being fair.

Kabam players who have not completed the abyss can now base decisions off their Abyss Crystals when those who made decisions prior to this announcement are at a disadvantage. If the players who are bemoaning the loss of relative shards to others are awarded those shards I suggest that you prevent them from opening those crystals until they have used their gems, stones and t5cc acquired from the Abyss.
You do realize the players who’ve already 100% will also be getting the added Nexus crystal? It will be delivered and claimed in mail, and they too can also base their decision on whichever t5cc they have waiting.

Only difference at this point is the countless who aren’t 100%, now get less rewards.
If they have spent their t5cc, no they cannot base their decision off of their t5cc.

The countless people who have not completed the Abyss are at a significant advantage when it comes to making informed decisions. Those who have made decisions prior to this announcement are in a position much worse than being down a crystal, they are down being able to make an informed decision with their resources which is far more detrimental than 1.5 random champions.

I doubt in reality it was detrimental to very many players. Some still have a lot of their resources. Many who did the Abyss early have sick rosters already and had excellent options on which to use those Abyss resources. They also got the benefit of the prestige race which is why many did it early in the first place. Nice Sunspot btw. It's really not a big deal either way. It's 15k shards. No one is getting screwed really. I just think it would be a better move by Kabam to leave the shards for everyone.
Yeah would’ve been nice if I had the Abyss crystal before spending my resources on Sunspot, would’ve influenced my decisions relating to every last resource used on him. I would gladly trade it for a refund and 5k 6* shards.

It’s cool that you aren’t very concerned, but I’m speaking to those who are.
If you had it to do over would you save all the things you got from the Abyss, refrain from awakening anyone and taking to r3, and wait until now? Genuinely curious. Who would you try to get in lieu of Sunspot?
Yes, I would have made different decisions if the Abyss Nexus was in play. The ability to make Informed decisions will always be more powerful than 15k random shards.

In the interest of being fair (Again this is why I’m posting) Players are claiming a disadvantage arising from the extra 15k shards others will have from the abyss while discounting and ignoring that they also have a significant and more impactful advantage with being able to make decisions with the Abyss crystal in play. If people want fair Kabam can leave the shards and return the resources and champions to all players who used them prior to the crystals addition. But that isn’t going to happen so people need to drop their victimhood and accept that sometimes all parties will be disadvantaged, that “fairness” isn’t an absolute and sometimes being handicapped in differing ways is equality.

Didn’t really answer my question at all but it’s all good

Mcord11758

This reward update has nothing to do with making right with the players. This is because their statistics show people aren’t bothering with abyss. They are trying to motivate those who haven’t to explore. It’s not even debatable their announcement says as much. The content failed to produce the revenue the expected. That’s why they are adding rewards to something no one was really complaining about

CoatHang3r

You’re welcome to straw man the argument for advantages and equality with one of design and champion additions but it’s still going to be a straw man any way you put it.
I presented an argument that all but precisely describes the way the game works. By definition, it cannot be a straw man because I'm attributing it to myself and to no one else. Either you don't understand what straw man arguments are, or you think I'm unqualified to present my own position accurately and need to correct me. In which case, you should correct my error in how I characterized my own position.

So you presented an argument that had nothing to do with the argument or question you quote. Totally not a straw man because reasons and rhetoric, gotcha.

Is there anywhere on Earth where this actually works? So i can avoid it in the future?
________________________
I certainly won’t let you get it past me.

Perhaps you should follow the original discussion and address it as whole rather than take a specific portion simplifying and mischaracterizing the argument.

Did you bother to answer the question, which is more powerful 15k shards or being able to make an informed decision? And remember I’m not asking about future champion additions to the game, I am specifically referencing (at this time) finite resources that are unobtainable anywhere else and in the context of people who have previously used end game resources that come at great expense to them (Time or money, I busted my butt in arena to do abyss).

Or perhaps, since you’re big on numbers, you can tell me what are my odds of being able to target a champion with the abyss nexus crystal who I can make better use of a generic awakening gem and t5cc on when I have previously used them with the knowledge that the rewards from the abyss were the only rewards I would get from the abyss? Then compare those odds to someone who has yet to obtain a generic awakening gem. We already know the answer on my end, zero. Don’t bother with the odds it’s already clear who has the advantage of the abyss nexus crystal while the other is left with 1.5 random champions.

And this isn’t to say that I’m put off by being in this position. I’m capable of accepting the hand I was dealt and that I played. But for someone else to tell me that I have an advantage over them in this situation and that they are now behind me in terms of the Abyss rewards “BeCAUse 15k sHaRDs” is beyond ludicrous it’s practically insulting. Additionally this change undermines the confidence players have when making decisions relating to rewards given to them. Why should I ever strive for end game rewards when it’s being shown putting them off can be advantageous?

Bidzy7

@culturalreference1
they are still getting the crystal.

Ofc his decisions would be different. As is everyones decision with anything in this game. The game is constantly changing. He could of pulled another champ that he would of rather R3 in his next 6* crystal.

Players awaken champions all the time to find the next pull is the very champion they just awakened. Or they r5 a champion to then pull a better champion to r5 on the next crystal.

The point is he made the decision to not only tackle the content as is with the rewards in question but then also use those materials for a specific purpose which was to have a R3 champion. This would of affected his prestige, his ability to do content with more ease. Although not hugely different a R3 champion is still better then a R2 or a 5* R5.

generally speaking players who don't rush content are in a better space to utilize the rewards better because they will be pulling new champions or duping champions which all have an affect on choices.

Arguing you should be entitled to something for rushing content and gaining an advantage is just ridiculous. Doom is now available in the basic pool so those 65k 6* shards could pull one of the top prestige champs in the game. But when Abyss first came out you couldn't get doom then. Should all those players then demand they get to reroll those crystals so they can have a chance of getting doom and taking him up instead ?

yes, meanwhile other players chose not to finish aol early and the game changed. so where does that leave us if your stance is that he's wrong because he chose to rank who he chose to rank?

also i don't see anybody arguing that anybody is owed anything, i think the only argument truly is if the 15k shards is meaningful enough or not to warrant this kind of response.
Do you expect players to be reimbursed if they use their AGs on champions then awaken the very same champion in the next crystal ?

Do you expect players to be entitled to rank down tickets if they ranked up a champion and then a new more powerful champion was added to the crystal/game and they pulled them ?

Do you expect people to be reimbursed for resources used to finish content because new champions have been released that means you need to use less items as there is better counters ? r4 starlords, Gwenpool etc in LoL compared to r5 Aegon

Because that's what your basically saying should happen. After all that is the fairness some people seem to be arguing for.

And you've chose not to do the content yet. Those of us used those resources with the information that abyss rewards were as they were staying. Champions getting added to the game and pulling champions you awakened is part of the game at all times, rewards changing is not necessarily.

It's absolutely is a disadvantage. One that I'm overly upset over? Not really. But acting like only one side loses out is flat out disingenuous.

None of this is that big of a deal especially if you weren't doing Abyss anytime soon as by the time you'd be doing it 6* shards will be far more common. They're starting cav difficulty testing in a couple of weeks.
Lol

go read DNA's post because clearly your missing the point.

One side does lose out. one side has 15k less shards for completing the same content. Everything else is all RNG dependent.

False, one side has 15k less shards and the other is short an informed decision that affects the rarest resources in the game including t5cc, 6* awakening gems, signature stones and above all else the opportunity to target a champion to use those resources on. There are also ancillary disadvantages that impact which gem you use where and which t5cc you target from act 6.

lol

Your basically opening another crystal. Its no different to ranking up a champion and then pulling a better champion. Or Kabam introducing a new Champion.

All content is subject to change, and that includes Encounters, rewards, Champion abilities, etc. This will never be announced at the outset because our intention wasn't to change the rewards later.

So how about they don't send those that done abyss the crystal is that now fair. You got 4 1/2 6* for completing Abyss 100%. New players get 4 6* for 100% AoL.

I can simply argue that by completing Abyss when you did you accepted the rewards as there were and therefore forgo any entitlement to any updates on rewards. That would then justify why the rewards now have less shards to make room for this other crystal as an extra incentive for people to 100% the content as people haven't been trying to do the content because they haven't been happy with the rewards. You doing it implies you was happy doing it.
I don't think they should do that as its only fair those who complete the content get access to this crystal. But thats because i'm not trying to deny others rewards unlike yourself.

15k 6* shards is basically 6 months of just grinding UC monthly EQ, so pretty valuable resource still.

Lets not forget that players can't base their choice of class on the two t5cc crystals they get from Abyss. Where as those who already completed it can make that decision.

but by all means keep asking for players to be denied access to the same resources just because you didn't get to use them in the same way.

DNA3000

This reward update has nothing to do with making right with the players. This is because their statistics show people aren’t bothering with abyss. They are trying to motivate those who haven’t to explore. It’s not even debatable their announcement says as much. The content failed to produce the revenue the expected. That’s why they are adding rewards to something no one was really complaining about

Actually, if that theory was correct they would have added the Nexus and not removed anything. There's no point in giving additional rewards only to the players who already explored it, and thus cannot possibly spend more money on it, if that was the case. This is very obviously an attempt to add a better RNG outcome to the 6* rewards in the Abyss. They did that by deciding to replace 15k shards with the Nexus crystal that actually returns *fewer* 6* champions in general, but has a vastly higher chance of generating a better outcome. This swap only makes sense if the intent was to add better RNG control without materially increasing the magnitude of the rewards. in effect, the reward designers decided to create a Nexus crystal this was deemed to have approximately 15k shards of value, and thus they charged all future players 15k to get it, and that exchange happens intrinsically in the rewards themselves. Again, this is an attempt to add control while being as neutral as possible about overall magnitude of the rewards.

All of the various implementation glitches, such as the order in which rewards are opened and the way the transition from existing Abyss players to future Abyss runners, are more likely the result of a bunch of compromises internally over how such large magnitude rewards should be altered. Kabam Miike's statement about how randomness is being reduced in the champion crystals but not in the rank up rewards is a clear indication of the debate that happened internally, as Kabam Miike doesn't make economy decisions: this reflects what the designers are telling him about why certain things were changed and others were not.

Also, the idea that not as many players are doing the Abyss as they expected sounds extremely unlikely to me. Far more people are doing it and completing it than I or anyone else likely would have predicted before it launched. After it launched everyone was describing it as if there was a land rush to complete it. I did not hear a peep from anyone claiming the Abyss was attracting far fewer players than they expected.

Shaanenegan

So how about they don't send those that done abyss the crystal is that now fair. You got 4 1/2 6* for completing Abyss 100%. New players get 4 6* for 100% AoL.

That does make sense. If its fair for summoners, who have done the Abyss a 100%, receive this crystal; its fair to summoners who will 100% Abyss get those 15k shards. Either do both or do none.