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Why Iceman isn’t coldsnap immune Etc

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    TP33TP33 Posts: 1,595 ★★★★
    Oh no the LOTR fan base has arrived.
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Mauled said:

    I mean, applying physics to superpowers is a slippery slope to madness. It’s a bit like applying physics to Harry Potter or wondering why Frodo didn’t just take the Eagles to Mordor.

    The whole point of the ring being given to a hobbit was so the power didn’t corrupt him, it would have corrupted the eagles. The ring corrupted Sauron, Isildur and boromir because they had power, it would have corrupted the even more powerful eagles but couldn’t corrupt a hobbit as easily, as they have less power.

    The eagles aren’t horses to ride, they are powerful proud beings and they don’t serve Gandalf, they just have an understanding.

    Sauron would have seen the eagles coming. Frodo and Sam sneaking into Mordor tricked sauron because he was so arrogant he couldn’t imagine someone wanting to destroy the ring, but he would have believed it if he saw eagles flying straight for mount doom.
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    SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 21,806 ★★★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    Mauled said:

    I mean, applying physics to superpowers is a slippery slope to madness. It’s a bit like applying physics to Harry Potter or wondering why Frodo didn’t just take the Eagles to Mordor.

    The whole point of the ring being given to a hobbit was so the power didn’t corrupt him, it would have corrupted the eagles. The ring corrupted Sauron, Isildur and boromir because they had power, it would have corrupted the even more powerful eagles but couldn’t corrupt a hobbit as easily, as they have less power.

    The eagles aren’t horses to ride, they are powerful proud beings and they don’t serve Gandalf, they just have an understanding.

    Sauron would have seen the eagles coming. Frodo and Sam sneaking into Mordor tricked sauron because he was so arrogant he couldn’t imagine someone wanting to destroy the ring, but he would have believed it if he saw eagles flying straight for mount doom.
    but they could ride on horses
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    Erik_Killmonger1001Erik_Killmonger1001 Posts: 427 ★★★
    noticed today that human torch absorbing energy acts wierdly, normal strikes from iron fist and unst collosus icrease hi temperature for some reason
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Erik_Killmonger1001 said:

    noticed today that human torch absorbing energy acts wierdly, normal strikes from iron fist and unst collosus icrease hi temperature for some reason

    Because they’re mystics, counts as energy attacks
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    TP33TP33 Posts: 1,595 ★★★★
    @UmbertoDelRio that’s all well and good and I’m not disputing that Dormammu is incredibly powerful but... in the avatar that he has created in order to compete in the battle realm there are particles. These particles have energy. That energy can be increased or decreased. If this was not true then no physical object could interact with him and he would have a permanent miss ability. Maybe in his true form he is raw energy or his own dimension but in this form that he has taken in the battle realm he is made of particles. That is an undisputed fact.
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    MathgeekMathgeek Posts: 609 ★★★
    TP33 said:

    @UmbertoDelRio that’s all well and good and I’m not disputing that Dormammu is incredibly powerful but... in the avatar that he has created in order to compete in the battle realm there are particles. These particles have energy. That energy can be increased or decreased. If this was not true then no physical object could interact with him and he would have a permanent miss ability. Maybe in his true form he is raw energy or his own dimension but in this form that he has taken in the battle realm he is made of particles. That is an undisputed fact.

    I would love a permanent miss
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    -sixate--sixate- Posts: 1,532 ★★★★★
    If Iceman wasn't immune to his own abilities, wouldn't he have killed himself by now? It's just flat out stupid he isn't immune.
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    Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Posts: 13,764 ★★★★★
    -sixate- said:

    If Iceman wasn't immune to his own abilities, wouldn't he have killed himself by now? It's just flat out stupid he isn't immune.

    That's not the case with most character's abilities, including from other sources besides Marvel
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    -sixate- said:

    If Iceman wasn't immune to his own abilities, wouldn't he have killed himself by now? It's just flat out stupid he isn't immune.

    If we make the game make sense good luck taking your nick fury against hulk fights. Hulk is now immune to little bullets and tiny punches and nick fury dies if you get hit once. Good job forcing the game to make sense.

    Now what’s flat out stupid?
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    Hammerbro_64Hammerbro_64 Posts: 7,463 ★★★★★
    The main problem I see with OP’s and dare I say it DNA’s logic is the location in which this debate is occurring. We aren’t talking about Iceman on earth, we are talking about iceman in the battlerealm, which come with two incredibly significant differences to earth.

    1. The battlerealm is a hodgepodge of infinite realities and dimensions. The chances of some of the realities following different laws of physics are 100%, because of the infinite quantity of different realities. The reality in which our characters fight could EASILY follow a different set of physics laws, thus providing for the possibility of something lower than 0°K, even though according to our laws of physics that would mean perfect stillness. There may be a cold energy just as there is a heat energy in this different reality.

    2. The presence of ISO-8: the main reason for Black Widow being able to go toe to toe with someone such as Phoenix. ISO-8 changes champions in different ways and with different strengths. It is just a sad coincidence that the likes of Magneto cannot draw power from it as well as Quake or Ghost. In that sense, ISO-8 could affect Iceman to make him immune to his own coldness but susceptible to other’s coldness.


    TLDR, this is the battlerealm, where reality doesn’t give two hoots, so nothing can be expected to follow Earth logic or physics.

    Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk.
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    SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 21,806 ★★★★★
    Hammerbro_64 said:

    The main problem I see with OP’s and dare I say it DNA’s logic is the location in which this debate is occurring. We aren’t talking about Iceman on earth, we are talking about iceman in the battlerealm, which come with two incredibly significant differences to earth.

    1. The battlerealm is a hodgepodge of infinite realities and dimensions. The chances of some of the realities following different laws of physics are 100%, because of the infinite quantity of different realities. The reality in which our characters fight could EASILY follow a different set of physics laws, thus providing for the possibility of something lower than 0°K, even though according to our laws of physics that would mean perfect stillness. There may be a cold energy just as there is a heat energy in this different reality.

    2. The presence of ISO-8: the main reason for Black Widow being able to go toe to toe with someone such as Phoenix. ISO-8 changes champions in different ways and with different strengths. It is just a sad coincidence that the likes of Magneto cannot draw power from it as well as Quake or Ghost. In that sense, ISO-8 could affect Iceman to make him immune to his own coldness but susceptible to other’s coldness.


    TLDR, this is the battlerealm, where reality doesn’t give two hoots, so nothing can be expected to follow Earth logic or physics.

    Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk.

    did-did you just poke a hole in DNA’s logic?


    madman.
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    Hammerbro_64Hammerbro_64 Posts: 7,463 ★★★★★
    SpideyFunko said:

    Hammerbro_64 said:

    The main problem I see with OP’s and dare I say it DNA’s logic is the location in which this debate is occurring. We aren’t talking about Iceman on earth, we are talking about iceman in the battlerealm, which come with two incredibly significant differences to earth.

    1. The battlerealm is a hodgepodge of infinite realities and dimensions. The chances of some of the realities following different laws of physics are 100%, because of the infinite quantity of different realities. The reality in which our characters fight could EASILY follow a different set of physics laws, thus providing for the possibility of something lower than 0°K, even though according to our laws of physics that would mean perfect stillness. There may be a cold energy just as there is a heat energy in this different reality.

    2. The presence of ISO-8: the main reason for Black Widow being able to go toe to toe with someone such as Phoenix. ISO-8 changes champions in different ways and with different strengths. It is just a sad coincidence that the likes of Magneto cannot draw power from it as well as Quake or Ghost. In that sense, ISO-8 could affect Iceman to make him immune to his own coldness but susceptible to other’s coldness.


    TLDR, this is the battlerealm, where reality doesn’t give two hoots, so nothing can be expected to follow Earth logic or physics.

    Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk.

    did-did you just poke a hole in DNA’s logic?


    madman.
    Maybe...? I’m preparing myself for a thesis on battlerealm physics and why he was originally right tho. All in good fun ofc
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    Hammerbro_64Hammerbro_64 Posts: 7,463 ★★★★★
    UmbertoDelRio said:

    Hammerbro_64 said:

    The main problem I see with OP’s and dare I say it DNA’s logic is the location in which this debate is occurring. We aren’t talking about Iceman on earth, we are talking about iceman in the battlerealm, which come with two incredibly significant differences to earth.

    1. The battlerealm is a hodgepodge of infinite realities and dimensions. The chances of some of the realities following different laws of physics are 100%, because of the infinite quantity of different realities. The reality in which our characters fight could EASILY follow a different set of physics laws, thus providing for the possibility of something lower than 0°K, even though according to our laws of physics that would mean perfect stillness. There may be a cold energy just as there is a heat energy in this different reality.

    2. The presence of ISO-8: the main reason for Black Widow being able to go toe to toe with someone such as Phoenix. ISO-8 changes champions in different ways and with different strengths. It is just a sad coincidence that the likes of Magneto cannot draw power from it as well as Quake or Ghost. In that sense, ISO-8 could affect Iceman to make him immune to his own coldness but susceptible to other’s coldness.


    TLDR, this is the battlerealm, where reality doesn’t give two hoots, so nothing can be expected to follow Earth logic or physics.

    Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk.

    1. Well... Considering how 0 kelvin is a purely hypothetical property, really the only chance for differences in that regard is that hypothetical value being either higher or lower on the scale.

    We are pretty safe to assume that, however different those many dimensions/universes are, all the characters still consist of matter, which consists of smaller particles, which are in constant movement.

    This is about the baseline properties of how things work so to speak. If there is movement there is kinetic energy, if there is kinetic energy there are thermodynamics. The differences would either be extremely minor or ridiculously vast, the latter resulting in what would at the upper end be a complete incompatibility of matter, space, etc.

    Any universe that is capable of producing life so similar to ours would nessecarily be extremely similar in it's baseline makeup and functionality.

    2. That's the whole point, though. "Coldness" isn't a thing. Coldness it not it's own thing, it merely descibes a lack of heat, which in itself is a byproduct of a reduction or a complete lack of kinetic energy.

    All of that is a really tight interaction. If in any given universe there is some form of matter made up of some kind of particles being in some kind of movement, then there nessecarily is some kind of kinetic energy. Therefore there would nessecarily be a hypothetical point at which that kinetic energy reaches 0, which would nessecarily describe the lowest possible temperature in that universe.

    The specific values could most definitely be different, but the baseline functionality should be essentially the same considering how the battlerealm still appears to function properly.
    Yeah I get that that’s how it works, but look at what Grandmaster says in the comic here
    The battlerealm is obviously mega-screwed up, so it’s safe enough to assume that of all the craziness, at least some things that WOULD be illogical in our universe wouldn’t in theirs. My cold energy and 0°K examples weren’t meant to be my explanation per se, but more of an example of how the physics could be incomprehensibly different. Think of in Ant Man 2 how any inconsistencies were covered by “quantum ______”? The same applies here, as dumb as it is
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,671 Guardian
    Deli said:

    DNA3000 said:


    Actually, this is somewhat backwards. It is actually harder to remove energy from something than heat it. It comes down to the fact that the rate at which heat will flow from one thing to the other is dependent on their temperature difference.

    I don't want to be "that guy" but this comment has me itching.
    DNA3000 said:

    1. "Removing energy" and "heating something" are technically the same thing. An object gains heat through the transfer, (or removal), of energy from a source of higher energy.
    2. Heat flow is actually alot more dependent on the thermal conductivity of the material or object rather than the actual temperature difference. Yes temp difference matters but thermal conductivity trumps that. This is why aluminum foil doesn't burn your hand after sitting in an oven due to its thermal conductivity value.

    Again, as stated, we shouldn't apply physics to comic books.
    Again, as stated, the comic book authors do it, so take it up with them.
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    SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 21,806 ★★★★★
    UmbertoDelRio said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Mauled said:

    I mean, applying physics to superpowers is a slippery slope to madness. It’s a bit like applying physics to Harry Potter or wondering why Frodo didn’t just take the Eagles to Mordor.

    The whole point of the ring being given to a hobbit was so the power didn’t corrupt him, it would have corrupted the eagles. The ring corrupted Sauron, Isildur and boromir because they had power, it would have corrupted the even more powerful eagles but couldn’t corrupt a hobbit as easily, as they have less power.

    The eagles aren’t horses to ride, they are powerful proud beings and they don’t serve Gandalf, they just have an understanding.

    Sauron would have seen the eagles coming. Frodo and Sam sneaking into Mordor tricked sauron because he was so arrogant he couldn’t imagine someone wanting to destroy the ring, but he would have believed it if he saw eagles flying straight for mount doom.
    One of the most heavily corrupted beings was a hobbit, smeagol. Also frodo himself was also nearly corrupted by the rings power. And bilbo was definitely pretty corrupted by it as well.

    I think the reason for this is more of a literary one. To create a parable of sorts tolkien choose to have one of the most unimpressive and least powerful beings triumph over a literal demigod.

    Basically the same baseline path he took in the story of the hobbit.

    The classic david vs goliath concept basically.

    From a pure story perspective, hobbits do seem to be less susceptible to the rings power. But as far as I understand it that's more about their average worldview and character.

    The humans in middle earth are opportunistic and power hunrgy.

    The elves have a clear superiority complex.

    The dwarfs are extremely greedy and are especially in the time in which the lord of the rings is set also rather power hungry, as in bringing their race back to old glory.

    The hobbits are calm, comfortable and nice. Smeagol has a rather tragic backstory, so his character was already somewhat corrupted when he found the ring.

    And bilbo, I'd say his journeys somewhat robbed him of the innocence most hobbits have. The ring saved his life multiple times, so he certainly felt a strong need to hold on to it, which in turn gave the corrupting properties of the ring something to latch on to.

    That's just my interpretation of course.
    should’ve given the ring to Sam honestly
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    ImranImran Posts: 587 ★★★
    Iceman should be immune to at least his own ability just like havoc.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,671 Guardian
    Hammerbro_64 said:

    The main problem I see with OP’s and dare I say it DNA’s logic is the location in which this debate is occurring. We aren’t talking about Iceman on earth, we are talking about iceman in the battlerealm, which come with two incredibly significant differences to earth.

    Actually, all I said regarding Iceman's immunities is because his powers cannot obey normal physics, because normal physics doesn't work that way, normal physics reasoning can't state he what he *should* be immune to. It is therefore an unanswerable question from normal physics alone, and thus also unanswerable from "common sense" as well. This would be true anywhere the argument takes place. On Battleworld, the "authors" have decreed that Iceman isn't immune to cold snap. Neither common sense nor conventional physics can declare them wrong here.
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    TP33TP33 Posts: 1,595 ★★★★
    Oh god what have I started
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,671 Guardian
    -sixate- said:

    If Iceman wasn't immune to his own abilities, wouldn't he have killed himself by now? It's just flat out stupid he isn't immune.

    The Punisher is not immune to bullets. Or if you want a more direct example, electric eels are not immune to electricity.
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    SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 21,806 ★★★★★
    TP33 said:

    Oh god what have I started

    you knew this was going to happen
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    TP33TP33 Posts: 1,595 ★★★★
    SpideyFunko said:

    TP33 said:

    Oh god what have I started

    you knew this was going to happen
    How could I predict the LOTR fan base would arrve
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