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15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

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    vikky89vikky89 Posts: 80
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    I just dont get this statement "The whole point of Diversity is to encourage the use of a variety of Champs,". Why should we use wide variety of champs when those champs are useless. Some champs are best suitable in offense and some are in defense. Rest of them are useless in both. We have spent all our resources(time and money) around champs that have some worth either in attack or defense. If you want diversity them urge kabam to upgrade them and make them useful again. I dont see you complaining about ppl always bring Vodoo or SL in attack. Magik itself is not the issue , MD is the culprit. You can easily take down magik with no MD in few tries.

    The statement that they're useless is based on opinion. That opinion is partly rooted in the old system where the best Defense Kills determine usefulness. MD is not the issue. If it were, they would address that instead of reworking the entire War System.

    Its not based on opinion , its based on fact. Entire concept of war (previous setup) is to make it difficult for opponent team to explore or kill the boss. And placing IM SIM KK IPs is not going to help with that objective. And defensive kills is the only thing that kept AW balanced btw skill vs spending. Taking down NC spidey Mordo require skill none are unbeatable champs. I have seen ppl solo NC n spidey on boss nodes even with link on. I will be happy to be proved wrong but I have never seen anyone complain about mystic champs without MD. MD itself is also not the main issue, prob is with how dexterity mastery interacting with MD.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    It's always been about who you place. That's the point. Diversity gives Points for using different Champs. The old system meant overpowering the Opponent into certain death because we had similar War Rating, but a huge gap between Ally Ratings and Rosters. It's not about skill for the Ally that is twice, or 3 times, the size and strength of the Opponent. The losing Ally has few choices.
    1. Try and give up.
    2. Try and KO into a Loss.
    3. Try for Exploration, and inevitably go for number 2.

    That's not skill. That's overpowering the enemy before they even get to Attack.

    Well thats how wars work. When you win a war, your war rating goes up and eventually u will get matched up with a ally twice your rating. You cant keep winning all the wars unless you are in the top ally ,that's how matchmaking is designed. Granted it doesnt work all the time, they can still fine tune it.

    What I'm saying is that is one of the issues the system is intended to address. Not to mention the fact that there is a monopoly on Tiers because certain overpowered Matches keep popping up allowing some Allies to peck off others comfortably. There are a number of issues that have been looked at in making the changes. Some things may need to be rethought, but the need is still real nonetheless. There was little to no movement for much of anyone for a while. Same Champs, same Wars, same Allies in the same Tiers.

    Monopoly on tiers? If you stopped growing you:
    Don't play enough to grow as quickly as others
    Don't have enough skilled individuals in your alliance

    It's that simple. My alliance went from t10 to t1 in the last 6 months. We don't spend. Stop making excuses for people that no matter how many times they try they can't help but getting smashed by a NC or spidey.....

    I am not talking about my Ally. We do fine where we are. I'm talking about the system. There is very little growth in certain areas because you have the same Allies who keep others stifled, through various things like Shells and arrangements to avoid fighting each other. The end result is overpowered Matches that stop people from advancing. I'm sorry you disagree and believe it's a lack of skill, but problems exist in the system either way.
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    SighsohardSighsohard Posts: 666 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    It's always been about who you place. That's the point. Diversity gives Points for using different Champs. The old system meant overpowering the Opponent into certain death because we had similar War Rating, but a huge gap between Ally Ratings and Rosters. It's not about skill for the Ally that is twice, or 3 times, the size and strength of the Opponent. The losing Ally has few choices.
    1. Try and give up.
    2. Try and KO into a Loss.
    3. Try for Exploration, and inevitably go for number 2.

    That's not skill. That's overpowering the enemy before they even get to Attack.

    Well thats how wars work. When you win a war, your war rating goes up and eventually u will get matched up with a ally twice your rating. You cant keep winning all the wars unless you are in the top ally ,that's how matchmaking is designed. Granted it doesnt work all the time, they can still fine tune it.

    What I'm saying is that is one of the issues the system is intended to address. Not to mention the fact that there is a monopoly on Tiers because certain overpowered Matches keep popping up allowing some Allies to peck off others comfortably. There are a number of issues that have been looked at in making the changes. Some things may need to be rethought, but the need is still real nonetheless. There was little to no movement for much of anyone for a while. Same Champs, same Wars, same Allies in the same Tiers.

    Monopoly on tiers? If you stopped growing you:
    Don't play enough to grow as quickly as others
    Don't have enough skilled individuals in your alliance

    It's that simple. My alliance went from t10 to t1 in the last 6 months. We don't spend. Stop making excuses for people that no matter how many times they try they can't help but getting smashed by a NC or spidey.....

    I am not talking about my Ally. We do fine where we are. I'm talking about the system. There is very little growth in certain areas because you have the same Allies who keep others stifled, through various things like Shells and arrangements to avoid fighting each other. The end result is overpowered Matches that stop people from advancing. I'm sorry you disagree and believe it's a lack of skill, but problems exist in the system either way.

    My alliance is 9mil rated. We regularly beat 12 mil alliances. Your arguement is wrong. It's that simple
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    edited September 2017
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Sighsohard wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    It's always been about who you place. That's the point. Diversity gives Points for using different Champs. The old system meant overpowering the Opponent into certain death because we had similar War Rating, but a huge gap between Ally Ratings and Rosters. It's not about skill for the Ally that is twice, or 3 times, the size and strength of the Opponent. The losing Ally has few choices.
    1. Try and give up.
    2. Try and KO into a Loss.
    3. Try for Exploration, and inevitably go for number 2.

    That's not skill. That's overpowering the enemy before they even get to Attack.

    Well thats how wars work. When you win a war, your war rating goes up and eventually u will get matched up with a ally twice your rating. You cant keep winning all the wars unless you are in the top ally ,that's how matchmaking is designed. Granted it doesnt work all the time, they can still fine tune it.

    What I'm saying is that is one of the issues the system is intended to address. Not to mention the fact that there is a monopoly on Tiers because certain overpowered Matches keep popping up allowing some Allies to peck off others comfortably. There are a number of issues that have been looked at in making the changes. Some things may need to be rethought, but the need is still real nonetheless. There was little to no movement for much of anyone for a while. Same Champs, same Wars, same Allies in the same Tiers.

    Monopoly on tiers? If you stopped growing you:
    Don't play enough to grow as quickly as others
    Don't have enough skilled individuals in your alliance

    It's that simple. My alliance went from t10 to t1 in the last 6 months. We don't spend. Stop making excuses for people that no matter how many times they try they can't help but getting smashed by a NC or spidey.....

    I am not talking about my Ally. We do fine where we are. I'm talking about the system. There is very little growth in certain areas because you have the same Allies who keep others stifled, through various things like Shells and arrangements to avoid fighting each other. The end result is overpowered Matches that stop people from advancing. I'm sorry you disagree and believe it's a lack of skill, but problems exist in the system either way.

    My alliance is 9mil rated. We regularly beat 12 mil alliances. Your arguement is wrong. It's that simple

    There is more than just your Ally in the entire War System.
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    RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    I just dont get this statement "The whole point of Diversity is to encourage the use of a variety of Champs,". Why should we use wide variety of champs when those champs are useless. Some champs are best suitable in offense and some are in defense. Rest of them are useless in both. We have spent all our resources(time and money) around champs that have some worth either in attack or defense. If you want diversity them urge kabam to upgrade them and make them useful again. I dont see you complaining about ppl always bring Vodoo or SL in attack. Magik itself is not the issue , MD is the culprit. You can easily take down magik with no MD in few tries.

    The statement that they're useless is based on opinion. That opinion is partly rooted in the old system where the best Defense Kills determine usefulness. MD is not the issue. If it were, they would address that instead of reworking the entire War System.

    Wrong.
  • Options
    vikky89vikky89 Posts: 80
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    It's always been about who you place. That's the point. Diversity gives Points for using different Champs. The old system meant overpowering the Opponent into certain death because we had similar War Rating, but a huge gap between Ally Ratings and Rosters. It's not about skill for the Ally that is twice, or 3 times, the size and strength of the Opponent. The losing Ally has few choices.
    1. Try and give up.
    2. Try and KO into a Loss.
    3. Try for Exploration, and inevitably go for number 2.

    That's not skill. That's overpowering the enemy before they even get to Attack.

    Well thats how wars work. When you win a war, your war rating goes up and eventually u will get matched up with a ally twice your rating. You cant keep winning all the wars unless you are in the top ally ,that's how matchmaking is designed. Granted it doesnt work all the time, they can still fine tune it.

    What I'm saying is that is one of the issues the system is intended to address. Not to mention the fact that there is a monopoly on Tiers because certain overpowered Matches keep popping up allowing some Allies to peck off others comfortably. There are a number of issues that have been looked at in making the changes. Some things may need to be rethought, but the need is still real nonetheless. There was little to no movement for much of anyone for a while. Same Champs, same Wars, same Allies in the same Tiers.

    Overpowered matches keep popping up coz of your increase in war rating. Tiers are divided based on you war rating. We used to be in tier 4-6 when we are 6mil ally a month ago. We are now 8.5 mil ally with war rating around ~1800. We oscillate btw teir2-3. What I am saying is you cant expect to be in top tier if your ally is not progressing in terms of skill and roster. The monopoly you are talking about is with may be 10 top most allys and 90% of the MCOC community dont even have to be concerned coz they are light years ahead
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    RagamugginGunner wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    I just dont get this statement "The whole point of Diversity is to encourage the use of a variety of Champs,". Why should we use wide variety of champs when those champs are useless. Some champs are best suitable in offense and some are in defense. Rest of them are useless in both. We have spent all our resources(time and money) around champs that have some worth either in attack or defense. If you want diversity them urge kabam to upgrade them and make them useful again. I dont see you complaining about ppl always bring Vodoo or SL in attack. Magik itself is not the issue , MD is the culprit. You can easily take down magik with no MD in few tries.

    The statement that they're useless is based on opinion. That opinion is partly rooted in the old system where the best Defense Kills determine usefulness. MD is not the issue. If it were, they would address that instead of reworking the entire War System.

    Wrong.

    You're free to disagree.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    vikky89 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    It's always been about who you place. That's the point. Diversity gives Points for using different Champs. The old system meant overpowering the Opponent into certain death because we had similar War Rating, but a huge gap between Ally Ratings and Rosters. It's not about skill for the Ally that is twice, or 3 times, the size and strength of the Opponent. The losing Ally has few choices.
    1. Try and give up.
    2. Try and KO into a Loss.
    3. Try for Exploration, and inevitably go for number 2.

    That's not skill. That's overpowering the enemy before they even get to Attack.

    Well thats how wars work. When you win a war, your war rating goes up and eventually u will get matched up with a ally twice your rating. You cant keep winning all the wars unless you are in the top ally ,that's how matchmaking is designed. Granted it doesnt work all the time, they can still fine tune it.

    What I'm saying is that is one of the issues the system is intended to address. Not to mention the fact that there is a monopoly on Tiers because certain overpowered Matches keep popping up allowing some Allies to peck off others comfortably. There are a number of issues that have been looked at in making the changes. Some things may need to be rethought, but the need is still real nonetheless. There was little to no movement for much of anyone for a while. Same Champs, same Wars, same Allies in the same Tiers.

    Overpowered matches keep popping up coz of your increase in war rating. Tiers are divided based on you war rating. We used to be in tier 4-6 when we are 6mil ally a month ago. We are now 8.5 mil ally with war rating around ~1800. We oscillate btw teir2-3. What I am saying is you cant expect to be in top tier if your ally is not progressing in terms of skill and roster. The monopoly you are talking about is with may be 10 top most allys and 90% of the MCOC community dont even have to be concerned coz they are light years ahead

    In a Tiered System, everything is affected.
  • Options
    vikky89vikky89 Posts: 80
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    vikky89 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    It's always been about who you place. That's the point. Diversity gives Points for using different Champs. The old system meant overpowering the Opponent into certain death because we had similar War Rating, but a huge gap between Ally Ratings and Rosters. It's not about skill for the Ally that is twice, or 3 times, the size and strength of the Opponent. The losing Ally has few choices.
    1. Try and give up.
    2. Try and KO into a Loss.
    3. Try for Exploration, and inevitably go for number 2.

    That's not skill. That's overpowering the enemy before they even get to Attack.

    Well thats how wars work. When you win a war, your war rating goes up and eventually u will get matched up with a ally twice your rating. You cant keep winning all the wars unless you are in the top ally ,that's how matchmaking is designed. Granted it doesnt work all the time, they can still fine tune it.

    What I'm saying is that is one of the issues the system is intended to address. Not to mention the fact that there is a monopoly on Tiers because certain overpowered Matches keep popping up allowing some Allies to peck off others comfortably. There are a number of issues that have been looked at in making the changes. Some things may need to be rethought, but the need is still real nonetheless. There was little to no movement for much of anyone for a while. Same Champs, same Wars, same Allies in the same Tiers.

    Overpowered matches keep popping up coz of your increase in war rating. Tiers are divided based on you war rating. We used to be in tier 4-6 when we are 6mil ally a month ago. We are now 8.5 mil ally with war rating around ~1800. We oscillate btw teir2-3. What I am saying is you cant expect to be in top tier if your ally is not progressing in terms of skill and roster. The monopoly you are talking about is with may be 10 top most allys and 90% of the MCOC community dont even have to be concerned coz they are light years ahead

    In a Tiered System, everything is affected.

    Yes, if there is a cap to each tier then this will have effect on everything like you said. I can be wrong, but as far as i know any ally can be in top tiers if they have good enough war rating.
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    R4GER4GE Posts: 1,530 ★★★★
    edited September 2017
    DD2 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    The whole point of Diversity is to encourage the use of a variety of Champs, rather than "Magik Wars".

    Encourage the use of weaker champs? Why? There's a reason you're calling it "Magik Wars" instead of Kamala Khan Wars, cause Kamala Khan sucks as a defender.

    It also gives an opportunity for people who don't have a Roster full of Voodoos and Hyperions.

    Like everyone else who worked hard to be able to get those Hyperions, players with weaker rosters will also have to suck it up and build their rosters too, and also be in an alliance that is the right match for them.

    I don't think that the focus should go back to Defenfer Kills. At least not in the capacity it was. Allies end up waiting 24 hours for a Match they can't win because they will KO themselves into submission.

    It's called WAR, not happy-fun-time-everyone-gets-a-trophy-gathering. Players have worked night and day to grind get and rank up the strongest champs. Those with weaker roster are in weaker alliances for a reason. There's a hierarchy man, and it's something you don't seem to get.

    The idea is to allow a balancing of the system to occur so that Allies have an equal opportunity to win. Not to place your Opponent into death.

    Not it's not! It's call war. May the best team win. The one's with the best attackers and defenders and skill and strategy should win it. Otherwise it's not a contest anymore. Everyone ALREADY has an equal opportunity to win. Anyone who works hard on this game can grow a strong roster. You seem to want equal outcome, which doesn't work in real life man.

    THIS! Spot on in my opinion!
    And when those alliances with poor rosters do face off against stronger alliances they get knocked down to the tier they belong in until they build up their rosters to move back up. Seems some still believe they should be in tier 1-3 gaining the same rewards as the top alliances or simply think there should be a way to win all wars. You get what you put in
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    KpatrixKpatrix Posts: 1,055 ★★★
    Just do it like this:

    Player A places 0 defenders, gets 0 points per attacker kill

    Player B places 1 defender, gets 30 points per attacker kill

    Player C places 5 defenders, gets 150 points per attacker kill.

    Problem of using less defenders to win is solved.
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    SligSlig Posts: 349 ★★
    It's nice that we are getting so much feedback from the mods.
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    gahrlinggahrling Posts: 199 ★
    In before the defender kills U-turn.
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    Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 1,249 ★★★★
    So now both teams 100% but the team with the higher defense rank and diversity wins. So if you run into a team that is like 2 mil higher than you just don't bother
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    PonyboyPonyboy Posts: 122 ★
    Keep it diverse through each BG at least. Now your limiting even more players who maxed AWD specific champs in the alliance. Whole RTD question no one likes, I know.
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    MasterSmokeMasterSmoke Posts: 548 ★★★
    Keep the Defender Diversity in each BG the way it is having only one champ placed in the whole alliance is kind of wack I hope I did read that right
This discussion has been closed.