Matchmaking Discussion [Merged Threads]

Comments

Let's not forget what triggered all of this. A certain Alliance who shall remain unnamed, were winning all of their Wars (by questionable practices "allegedly"), and threatened to take out a lower Alliance with a patsy Ally because they thought it was their right to do so. Then they switched it mid-Season last Season, but rather than make it a more fair transition, here we are with the same problem and a heads up. It's exactly like I said. No one can benefit from War but the top because they think they own the Board. Simple as that.
No idea what you're talking about. Kabam finally changed bad matchmaking to an ok one. Good thing to do actually.

What I'm talking about is clear and people know what I'm referring to.

I need to walk away from this conversation because the more I talk, the more angry I get. All I'm going to leave with is this.
Have a bit more compassion, everyone. This is nothing to gloat about or rub it in peoples' faces. They are upset because the Matches are way out of proportion. Lord knows if it was your Alliance, you would complain too. Call it necessary, call it balancing, call it whatever you want, but what these people are facing is 100% unfair to them.

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Thicco_Mode

Let's not forget what triggered all of this. A certain Alliance who shall remain unnamed, were winning all of their Wars (by questionable practices "allegedly"), and threatened to take out a lower Alliance with a patsy Ally because they thought it was their right to do so. Then they switched it mid-Season last Season, but rather than make it a more fair transition, here we are with the same problem and a heads up. It's exactly like I said. No one can benefit from War but the top because they think they own the Board. Simple as that.
No idea what you're talking about. Kabam finally changed bad matchmaking to an ok one. Good thing to do actually.
What I'm talking about is clear and people know what I'm referring to.

I need to walk away from this conversation because the more I talk, the more angry I get. All I'm going to leave with is this.
Have a bit more compassion, everyone. This is nothing to gloat about or rub it in peoples' faces. They are upset because the Matches are way out of proportion. Lord knows if it was your Alliance, you would complain too. Call it necessary, call it balancing, call it whatever you want, but what these people are facing is 100% unfair to them.

of course it's unfair, but it would still be unfair if the system wasn't changed and people weren't in the tiers they desvered. after this season, people will be where they deserve. no one is lacking compassion here. everyone here that is speaking reasonable and logically understands that they will struggle for this season, and it's a result of kabams mistake in the past. however, they are changing this so everyone has the rewards they deserve. not one person is "floating or running it in anyone's face". they are just happy that people are getting the rewards the deserve and we're unable to get with the past system. if anything, it seems like you don't understand other people's perspective

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QuikPik

Really is unfair. My 36 mil alli got paired with a 9 mil alli. I feel bad for them
And that 9m alliance has been getting the same season rewards as you for the past 10 seasons.
That's Kabam's fault, and issue to have fixed in a better way. Now lower teams will get hammered, and it'll more than likely lead to alliances not bothering to even run war
They are correcting the system. You shouldn't have been where you are at now in the first place. Would you rather them just cut your war rating and put you in a lower bracket automatically?
I'd expect them to do a better where job where smaller alli's don't get a pummelling.
Its certainly free rewards for my alli to face a 9mil alli, but it's clear that the smaller alli's are totally out of favour due to kabam
smaller alliances have been taking advantage of a broken match making system and now they are being brought inline with where they should have been the whole time.
Ohhhhhhhhh... so its the "small" alliances fault for winning wars, when the entire blame for the flaw is on Kabam?
Now that Kabam want to "fix" this mess, they penalise the alli's that did nothing wrong.
Don’t think of it as penalised, think of it as properly rewarded.
Word it as you will, but those alliances did nothing wrong at all. They played the rules Kabam set out. You can only play whats in front of you.

This is certainly a way to hit those alli's for a season to "balance" out something which was caused by Kabam.
One tough half-season of war isnt a bad price to play for multiple seasons of rewards where they were protected from high PI allies.

If you offered me 3 seasons of protection from higher allies and the tradeoff is getting pummeled for one, I'd take it in a second and so would they.

They got the rewards first, now the tradeoff is here.

Try 10 seasons of rewards well above their normal means.

EDZ1960

Why would you want to give a stronger alliance the advantage that pisses me off you should just make it that we go head-to-head with alliances with similar strengths ! The way you have it now alliance wars are a joke !

Timone147

I understand that people are upset and yes this is a rough way to do it but what other way is there.

Alliances are in tiers they don’t belong in due to bad matchmaking that made them able to reach tiers and awards they should not have been able to based off their lesser rosters. This was wrong and needed to be corrected. If this is your alliance then you have benefitted from broken matchmaking that let you get rewards above your current actual standing in MCOC on skill and roster. Not your fault but still it happened and needs to be fixed.

If you can’t beat them you don’t deserve the rewards above them period. Regardless of whether you are the same size. The tiers are supposed to reflect the best overall not the best at beating their equals in age of account or roster size in MCOC.

Would people rather they wiped everyone’s existing war rating and then set the entire system ranked based on alliance prestige get people to similar tiers based of alliance progression to start the season... I think not.

At least this way alliances have a the ability to fight to stay as high as they can while it’s sorted.

Aleor

@GroundedWisdom go back to the sports analogies. You brought up weight classes in boxing. Do you want lower groups to essentially only be allowed to play Heroic War with Heroic rewards? If that's the case, it makes sense to use prestige and have them only match other low groups. In this scenario, the best lower groups could climb to the top, and get the best Heroic rewards. They would not have the option of getting UC rewards or Master rewards no matter how many wars they win until they gain weight. Similarly, a welterweight boxer can be undefeated and hold the welterweight belt, but he can't compete for the Heavyweight belt. Our previous system allowed Heroic/Welterweight alliances who were the best in that group to win Uncollected/Heavyweight rewards by beating other lower groups. This forced other heavyweights to fight each other for Heroic rewards. The best Little League team in the world might never lose a single game ever to other Little League teams. That's awesome. They should get credit as the best in their level. They don't push higher level teams to lower levels as a result. If you don't want segregation and you want everyone to compete for the same rewards, that same best of the Heroic level war alliances will rise to the top of that level and beat some of the less skilled Master groups, but they will hit a wall and won't get to Uncollected until they get stronger.That's what's happening now. Every alliance will win or lose until they get to where they are getting fairly rewarded for the level they can attain. The truth is the very top was fine in either scenario because they can outspend everyone. This was never about them, contrary to your belief. Previously lower groups were getting rewards they didn't earn as they were getting Master and Uncollected rewards by beating the Heroic level. Now it's being fixed and you say it's unfair lol.
Did I not just say that the Rewards could have been addressed? That was an option. So was easing the adjustment so that the Season wasn't filled with Matches like the ones we're seeing. Now all we have is a mess.
Oh no. War is going to be a mess for one season while the system corrects itself to how it should have been from the start.

What's that? War seasons have always been unfair and unbalanced?

What's that? Alliances that have gained an advantage because they were only matching lower rated opponents to climb up through the ladders without ever having to face a legitimate ranked opponent?

What's that? You're telling me that no damn game with a ranked ladder and an actual functioning MMR system would implement a broken flawed system where someone could play way about their station like the old system did?

In one season, all alliances will be in their proper places and getting appropriate rewards for the amount of effort they put in. There is no way that some of these lower prestige, and lower overall combined hero rating alliances should be at the rank they achieved by fighting much easier opponents. That was a fundamentally flawed system.

Oh no. Right. Tell me this. Did people not argue for weeks when one War was discounted? "End the Season! Do the right thing Kabam!". That argument was valid, but an entire Season that's going to be a mess for many, many people....oh, that's just for the betterment of everyone.
Double standard, really.
Bottom line is everyone's Season matters. Everyone's effort is worth something. Not just the Top.
Exactly! Everybody’s season matters! Which is why we are now matched by war ratings instead of prestige. And those top teams that have been held down unfairly by smaller teams will rise in the rankings to reflect that they are better. No more free rides.
No matter how you try to spin it, placing Alliances in Matches they have no possible way of winning is wrong. Doesn't matter how justified you think it is. It's just a Season of sadistically watching people fail.
The things you need to not lose at least are very simple actually.
1 - diversity maxed
2 - explore every map without deaths
That's it! All it takes basically is an attack team capable of finishing fights within time limit and skill to do that. And if your attack team has no chance of doing that, why should you get more rewards then your opponent? Wich they did for years. They did cut aw ratings to make those matches more fair probably, yet save some order to avoid more frustration of top alliances fighting lower alliances. They could've make the transition smoother, but it would've take much more time and probably be worse for those low pi alliances with high war rates. And now it's like some shock therapy. It will take only couple of weeks probably to sort most of alliances, and then most people will be back to almost equal number of wins and losses, and alliances will get rewards they should.
You're kidding me with that right? Just explore the Map and they'll win. They can't win. The difference in what they're using alone, differences in CR, Node increases, Nodes, etc. They can't win these Wars. Let's not be glib.

The nodes are the same as they were. They didn't just jumped 10 tiers above. They can, if they have enough skill and comparable firepower. If they can't, they shouldn't be in same tier, wich will happen, when they will lose.

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Speeds80

I’m 100% that this is a correction and a righting of a broken system that screwed alliances like mine. But kabam could have done it better, starting it in season was dumb, we all know the locked ratings isn’t really doing much, should have implemented the change off season and not frozen the ratings so the settling could happen outside the season. Secondly they should have left a parameter like closest war rating within 1k Of prestige for say the 5 wars, thing is alliances like mine who have been absolutely left to rot for the last few seasons in silver 1 can only be happy about the discrepancies that have occurred to war rating that these matches are actually showing up. It’s just the brutal suddenness of it that going to cause these complaints, we all knew they were coming
1k isnt enough. Then you can have allies skating by - a 5k shouldn't be in the same realm as a 10k and totally protected from the 10k.

Yeah it’s not an endgame result, maybe 2k or 3k my point was just to smooth the transition for 5 wars or so. The end result that we have is great just saying it’s a rough start for a few wars.

If anyone wants to have compassion, how about compassion for an officer of the 30m alliance in silver 1/ g3 who’s had to try and recruit replacements for people for 7 seasons. after the more competitive leave every season because of silver 1 rewards, after they achieved around or over 50% win rates. And for some reason kept slipping back on the boards. it was damaging alliances because it was punishing prestige and this change is literally fixing it, kabam have obviously realised this and been humble enough to right their mistake, the system was messed up. I’m seeing people coming back to the game because of the changes.

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HamedSO

Our alliance went against an opponent with +10m rating than us! Also Wars are no longer interested at all after the new buffs and nodes. Enjoy playing wars Kabam!

QuikPik

@Speeds80 I can feel your pain. I created a test alliance from scratch; started at war rating 0. We built ourselves up over 2 seasons (not a very long period). We wound up in tier 4 at the end with just 3k prestige. We only play 1 BG wars and finished in Gold 2 because the system would search wide and war to match up against an alliance in our prestige range. In some instances, we got matched against alliances that were more than 1000 war rating below us all because our prestige was close.

So yes, a small prestige alliance playing 1 BG wars can finish ahead of a 10k prestige alliance playing 3 BG wars because the system was terribly flawed.

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Speeds80

@Speeds80 I can feel your pain. I created a test alliance from scratch; started at war rating 0. We built ourselves up over 2 seasons (not a very long period). We wound up in tier 4 at the end with just 3k prestige. We only play 1 BG wars and finished in Gold 2 because the system would search wide and war to match up against an alliance in our prestige range. In some instances, we got matched against alliances that were more than 1000 war rating below us all because our prestige was close.

So yes, a small prestige alliance playing 1 BG wars can finish ahead of a 10k prestige alliance playing 3 BG wars because the system was terribly flawed.

Yeah man I was trolling old threads to try and find this example, really appreciate your work here, I’ve been trying to thread on this for the last year but that spreadsheet and this example was gold bro, Glad someone sat down and made it so obvious, I feel like once kabam realised how much the community could see the discrepancies they had to change, (typical kabam seem like they make changes on perception Once we see data rather than the data they can easily see and had known about all along)

Genesis1_0_1_

Dear Kabam,
Yes, true as alliance season 19 started we started aw yesterday
And I checked the opponent today,boom! There u go We got opponents who r 5 times stronger than us
Our rating is 4mil and they r 21mil
Hey Kabam guys do u only do matchmaking based on victory points ???
But that aint cool fr weak alliances
This is not fair at all
You may check the screenshot

Screenshot_20200710-074535~2.png

Onmix

Well. Most screenshots show very similar War Rating. Nothing fairer than that.

The previous matchmaking was extremely flawed. It will correct itself soon and these new “unfair” matches won’t be happening.

GroundedWisdom

Soon. Lol. After a whole Season or two of this mess. That's okay though, right? As long as it doesn't mess your Season.

QuikPik

FFS, and all the alliances that were displaced for 10 seasons is OK though?

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Timone147

Why shouldn’t it be matched based on war rating? Why shouldn’t you face the alliances in your tier and of similar war rating that are competing for the same rewards?

GroundedWisdom

FFS, and all the alliances that were displaced for 10 seasons is OK though?

Displaced. According to what?

GroundedWisdom

They played their Wars and earned the Rewards they did based on the way the system was.

Thicco_Mode

Soon. Lol. After a whole Season or two of this mess. That's okay though, right? As long as it doesn't mess your Season.

well yeah. that's the whole point of the new system. I'm sure you benefited from it, which wasn't necessarily your fault, but just a flawed system. imagine those who were in the opposite situation and struggled because of the old systen

GroundedWisdom

Why bother playing at all? Let's just allow the Top to determine where everyone SHOULD be, and hand out the Rewards.

GinjabredMonsta

They played their Wars and earned the Rewards they did based on the way the system was.

That is the point. The system was flawed and it wasn't fair that they had ended where they did and got the rewards they did. They may have played the same game everyone else did but they never had to fight any of the alliance who actually belonged in those ranks as well as pushed out allianced that should have been there.

GroundedWisdom

Soon. Lol. After a whole Season or two of this mess. That's okay though, right? As long as it doesn't mess your Season.
well yeah. that's the whole point of the new system. I'm sure you benefited from it, which wasn't necessarily your fault, but just a flawed system. imagine those who were in the opposite situation and struggled because of the old systen

I didn't benefit. I don't know why people keep saying I'm trying to get some unearned outcome. I'm talking about what's fair for EVERYONE. Two wrongs don't make a right, and all I can see is a great deal of hypocritical minimizing of the real issue here. People complain about what they call unfair, but as soon as it becomes unfair for someone else, well that's just correcting. The problem is it shouldn't be unfair to anyone. Otherwise it's not a solution at all.

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Thicco_Mode

Why bother playing at all? Let's just allow the Top to determine where everyone SHOULD be, and hand out the Rewards.

no we should have people complain about the new system, which objectively is fairer than the old one and will place everyone where they should be. we should make sure they continue saying the same thing without adding anything to the conversation. seriously, how would you solve this? any change like this is bound to have growing pains for everyone, but it's better than so many people struggling because of a flawed system