15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

Comments

Lariat

Bring back old AW!! I, with alot of my alliance members are having a hard time getting into the new AW. 100% map clear and win on diversity....yawn. Wars used to be strategic with defender kills, you had to think of the best possible way to work with your team to clear the map. HUGE disappointment imo. Im already hearing people finally have a decent excuse to retire from the game

Draco2199

Sinister7th wrote: »

Draco2199 wrote: »

Sinister7th wrote: »

Hold up, there's a lot of straight up BS going on around here.

@Draco2199 - Don't make me laugh. You couldn't survive in an elite alliance for one hour. It's not all about spending, you actually need to be skilled to make it - even though we all know the top 3 have AW pilots lol. Map 6 multiple days a week when starting prestige is probably higher than your prestige on day 3 is not something you can just pay to finish. Stop with the nonsense.

@Grub - I'm not in the top 3 but I'm very close. My ally doesn't have to worry at all about diversity. Still, just coz people like you and me worked harder and spent money doesn't mean the win should be automatic, which it is. We will probably benefit in terms of rewards, but AW is just not fun at all anymore. There should be some skill to it. Now, there is none.

I've been in a top 10 alliance until I semi retired a few months ago. I'm one of the more skilled players in the game and I've spent more than you probably paid for your house on this game. I've run Map 6x5 without using items so please stop with your nonsense. You don't know me I was a big time whale in the game until my semi retirement. But thanks for assuming I don't know what I'm talking about, I actually really do and I know all the "exploits we used to use" which didn't make the game fun. The truth is you can't win with skill anymore against top alliances. Thats the problem. And yes Top Alliances all account share with AQ and AW but Kabam won't do anything about it and we all know that. This has been known for years and Kabam was suppose to look into it but turned a blind eye. Not sure why.

First off, I don't believe you for a second. If you ever were in an elite ally you would know there is no one in the top that isn't skilled.
Secondly, your entire attitude tells me you're a BS artist.]
Third, LOL. You know nothing about my life. If you had spent as much as I paid for my house in this game, there would be a statue of you in the Kabam HQ, and a champ named after you.

There probably is.

Voluntaris

WorkingAsIntended wrote: »

Revert it for the love of god. Diversity is beyond stupid and your punishing people for ranking up champs in your old system.i want rdt if this system stays period. It should not. This is worse then 12.0 imo because now everyone's favorite mode in game is worthless and boring. Not only that but my work for a solid defense destroyed rewards not greater then before. More time in game moving. This game is getting more stale everyday and the idiots running it have no clue what's going on. the whole new wars need to be scraped and left alone until you can actually put something out that isn't complete garbage.

Solution: everyone hates mystic wars so easy solution update the rewards for each tier. Until you can decide the new map and nodes. It's that simple if I get better rewards I will work harder.

I don't hate mystic wars, so "everyone" does not hate mystic wars.

WorkingAsIntended

This whole change is coming way to quick and was not thought out at all. Then another change but doesn't solve the initial change. Kabam stop being blundering idiots. You have no idea how this game plays or works just shut your mouths for once and actually listen to your player base. NOBODY WANTS THIS KIND OF WAR. I would rather fight a whole line of dorms magiks etc then have to completely make a new defense from scratch. Sounds stupid right? Like six star right? Starting over is what your forcing everyone to do which is why we're all pissed beyond belief. Only the top allies is where it won't matter much sense they have everything me the little guy exculpating 300k+ doesn't have the resources to completely revamp my roster for "diversity ". Just like pure skill detect it's being swept under the rug because kabam is and will never be a company that actually does anything. Let me guess games broken but hey here's a 4&5* offer. Why would anyone buy this **** when your game is broken and the offers are not even worth it when the champs continue to be irrelevant and worth nothing? Where's the stupid 5* pg vision sale? Oh wait he's not a force star since he's to useful? Why is it you will nerf champs and not make them 5*? That's the million dolllar question.

Back on topic war was my favorite thing in game to do watch my defense do work and watch myself drop those mini bosses. Now I can fight nodes blindfolded and with one hand. It's that easy not to say I'm the best but it's so bland throw in diversity and nothing is a challenge at all. You might as well call this bases. Because in no way shape or form is this a war. The champs are diverse enough. You want a new goal we'll update your old useless champs to actually do something worth the diversity? Go figure we have great ideas but you don't use them to any capacity. You have completely killed the fun of war so much that I don't even care to login after I took my mini boss down I never checked my defense no point there going to clear 100% anyway. So yeah I play war a lot less and if anything I'm actually starting to be less involved in the game more then ever before. Your game is stale and repetitive. With minimal rewards. I'm not going to ask for a boycott although 12.0 should have never happened. The only ones in that exchange that lost was the entire community. But I'm continuing my stance on not spending and i hope the rest of the community didn't buy the offers. All your doing is allowing them to backdoor us completely. Anyways I doubt this will do much if anything just wanted to rant lol

RagamugginGunner

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

@Draco2199 If I'm not mistaken, the new setup will curb that. It will take time to rebalance, but with Defender Kills removed, it allows for a more even playing field. Diversity is easy to consider with as many Champs as we have. As long as the opposition has sufficient Attack, they have a chance of winning. The problem was widely prominent when said Allies that were cherry picking were able to accumulate Defender Kills. I don't think it's been swept under the rug. I think it will be rebalanced.
Also, you're not alone in your concern. It may be within the rules, but it's created a monopoly on positions. It affects the entire system because when the top is retaining their position from doing so, everything under them is stunted. There is only so much progression that can happen when there is some kind of loophole ensuring homeostasis. It's an interdependent system that is Tiered. Anything at any juncture besides the very bottom affects everything under it.
TL:DR - I hear what you're saying. That's an unfair situation, and I'm speculating that the new changes will help.

Wrong.

Choimo

I agree AW was an event that bring people together in this game across alliances. Every other game mode is solo or within your alliance like AQ.
War was competitive and made us think about defense and strategy. It was the only game mode we have some influence creating a unique experience.( sure that was room for improvement and sometimes match making is wonky)

But the current AW format offer little interactions and only strategy is "race to the flag"
I can go on and on about it but I agree with an early point.... with this release you took away what was once great and took years to refine

adramelch

I know I've said it before, and so have many others before me, but I'm going to keep on saying it till someone actually listens. Fix alliance wars before you kill the game altogether.

Draco2199

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

@Draco2199 If I'm not mistaken, the new setup will curb that. It will take time to rebalance, but with Defender Kills removed, it allows for a more even playing field. Diversity is easy to consider with as many Champs as we have. As long as the opposition has sufficient Attack, they have a chance of winning. The problem was widely prominent when said Allies that were cherry picking were able to accumulate Defender Kills. I don't think it's been swept under the rug. I think it will be rebalanced.
Also, you're not alone in your concern. It may be within the rules, but it's created a monopoly on positions. It affects the entire system because when the top is retaining their position from doing so, everything under them is stunted. There is only so much progression that can happen when there is some kind of loophole ensuring homeostasis. It's an interdependent system that is Tiered. Anything at any juncture besides the very bottom affects everything under it.
TL:DR - I hear what you're saying. That's an unfair situation, and I'm speculating that the new changes will help.

Ok explain how you have a chance at winning vs a top 10 alliance? Or a substantially higher alliance you get matched against.

1. Your defender rating will be lower.
2. Your diversity will be lower.
3. 100% completion for both.....

Oh wait you already lost because of 1 & 2 no matter what you do. How is it "even" now when no matter what a smaller alliance does if both 100% they have no chance? AW map is a breeze most skilled players can clear it without any items. But skill doesn't matter anymore. Now its your roster so its AQ and prestige all over again.

Voluntaris

Psymonsez68 wrote: »

Lol. This discussion is hilarious. Obviously people dont understand the diversity. The map is easy to complete. Place a diverse defense. Who cares about rank. They are gonna get beat! A smaller alliance can beat a bigger alliance with diversity. This does make it so smaller alliance have a chance. Take the time to coordinate a diverse defense. And 100% the map!

yes, the map is very easy to 100%, however, those bigger alliances tend to have more diverse rosters (i.e., classic ultron, kang, thanos, og DP) ... so you are incorrect in that smaller alliances can beat bigger more diverse alliances.

If new scoring system is to stay, the matchmaking screen should be re-designed to be more like a slot machine, once a match is found, immediately choose the winner based on which alliance is more 'diverse' - war over, rewards given out.

Ultimatheory

Voluntaris wrote: »

Psymonsez68 wrote: »

Lol. This discussion is hilarious. Obviously people dont understand the diversity. The map is easy to complete. Place a diverse defense. Who cares about rank. They are gonna get beat! A smaller alliance can beat a bigger alliance with diversity. This does make it so smaller alliance have a chance. Take the time to coordinate a diverse defense. And 100% the map!

yes, the map is very easy to 100%, however, those bigger alliances tend to have more diverse rosters (i.e., classic ultron, kang, thanos, og DP) ... so you are incorrect in that smaller alliances can beat bigger more diverse alliances.

If new scoring system is to stay, the matchmaking screen should be re-designed to be more like a slot machine, once a match is found, immediately choose the winner based on which alliance is more 'diverse' - war over, rewards given out.

Yeah he probably got lucky the past week that his alliance was against opponents who didn't understand the scoring system. Once everyone is on the same page it pretty much guarantees bigger alliances will always beat smaller alliances. Then we'll see who is complaining.

MEKA5

The AW system is broken and boring...this feels bad just like the 12.0 update.

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious people here would like an official reply about recent AW changes.

Are you willing to keep this absurd scoring system were defenders kills and even attackers kills count less than diversity?
Or are you taking any of the several good suggestions given in these posts or by Seatin/ Brian Grant and other youtubers?

I hope you'll listen to your players base and provide some viable options to your customers...to keep having fun in AW.

NOOOOOOOOPEEEEE

http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update-updated-september-12-17-45-pdt#latest

MEKA5

NOOOOOOOOPEEEEE wrote: »

http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update-updated-september-12-17-45-pdt#latest

My post applies to that update.

Draco2199

Psymonsez68 wrote: »

Lol. This discussion is hilarious. Obviously people dont understand the diversity. The map is easy to complete. Place a diverse defense. Who cares about rank. They are gonna get beat! A smaller alliance can beat a bigger alliance with diversity. This does make it so smaller alliance have a chance. Take the time to coordinate a diverse defense. And 100% the map!

How can a smaller alliance beat a bigger alliance? You will lose on defense rating and diversity automatically.

Heywood

Psymonsez68 wrote: »

Yeah! Again! If your SMALL alliance is facing one of them then you are probably not ready for that tier

I think you may not be understanding the complaint.

My alliance for example is almost 9 mil in tier 2 war. We always face opponents rated higher than us with a higher defender rating than us and we win a decent amount of the time. We are going to place every playable champ outside of Ultron classic and Thanos.

We now literally can not win against a higher rated alliance who places with the same or better (having Ultron classic or Thanos) diversity. Also, we will not lose against teams who place less than 105 unique champs.

That system is entirely broken. This is now a contest of organization.
Assume an alliance we face is better than us and has 103 unique champs (no Kang or Kingpin for example) we will automatically win. That is absurd.

Draco2199

Psymonsez68 wrote: »

All alliances can have the diversity. But everyone wants to complain they arent strong enough. The diversity is what get you the points. Not the strength of the diverse champs! Higher alliances will have some kangs and classic ultrons.But og vision was available to all. So those 3 champs will just make it impossible huh?

So you are basically saying that skill shouldn't matter in a CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS lol. Why don't we just have autofight for AW then?

TBJ1118

Psymonsez68 wrote: »

Yeah! Again! If your SMALL alliance is facing one of them then you are probably not ready for that tier

What about my alliance, we've been 9M 2400 rating war, continuously facing 12-13M alliances and beating them due to defensive kills and our ability in attack (I won't say I am a monster, above average for sure but there are guys here that are just insane). What about us? Our skill can't allow us to stay in top tier anymore just because we don't have original dp thanos and kang? Even if we used to beat our opponents that now pass us just because they have a kang acquired by pure luck when the gifting event was on??

R4GE

All they have said is it is staying as is and they will keep an eye on the scoring. I take that as it could continue to change if they see more and more flaws.

Run477

Frankly, brian grant was one of the biggest proponents of this system, primarily bc he kept complaining about mystic dispersion (and it seemed solely bc he wanted to run suicides in attack which is awful for defense and a lot of alliances refuse to allow their members to place defenders with suicides at all--which it seemed 4loki finally got to that point when he created his "hybrid" setup).

Now that he he's what he wants--not facing mystic defenses with dispersion--he doesn't like it bc this isn't fun. Fact: it's not fun now. War was fun bc it was a challenge to fight someone else's mastery/defense strategy. Now it's just kind of pointless--or, as brian grant put it, essentially another daily login calendar.

Finally, the whole "let's just change dexterity buff" argument is really annoying. Some of us (myself included) maxed mystic dispersion bc of those dexterity buffs expiring. I am assuming you didn't do so? Or maybe you did. But regardless, I'd you to into attack with magik, voodoo, vision, or Hawkeye or even arch angel, mystic dispersion isn't that bad to play around. I always brought vision, voodoo and Aq to war (unless we miraculously had a nightcrawler boss then star lord got to come off then bench).

I think this whole war experience falls under the old adage, be careful what you wish for bc you might get it.

R4GE

Run477 wrote: »

Frankly, brian grant was one of the biggest proponents of this system, primarily bc he kept complaining about mystic dispersion (and it seemed solely bc he wanted to run suicides in attack which is awful for defense and a lot of alliances refuse to allow their members to place defenders with suicides at all--which it seemed 4loki finally got to that point when he created his "hybrid" setup).

Now that he he's what he wants--not facing mystic defenses with dispersion--he doesn't like it bc this isn't fun. Fact: it's not fun now. War was fun bc it was a challenge to fight someone else's mastery/defense strategy. Now it's just kind of pointless--or, as brian grant put it, essentially another daily login calendar.

Finally, the whole "let's just change dexterity buff" argument is really annoying. Some of us (myself included) maxed mystic dispersion bc of those dexterity buffs expiring. I am assuming you didn't do so? Or maybe you did. But regardless, I'd you to into attack with magik, voodoo, vision, or Hawkeye or even arch angel, mystic dispersion isn't that bad to play around. I always brought vision, voodoo and Aq to war (unless we miraculously had a nightcrawler boss then star lord got to come off then bench).

I think this whole war experience falls under the old adage, be careful what you wish for bc you might get it.

Wasn't his standing strictly "dexterity vs MD" and not MD as an issue in general?

Heywood

Psymonsez68 wrote: »

Maximize your diversity! And 1 champ wont matter

Of course we are maximizing diversity. We have 105 unique champs that we will place.
We will lose to alliances that place 105 champs with a higher defender rating. We will win against alliances with 105 unique champs with a lower defender rating.

Like @TBJ1118 said - Their alliance rating is similar to ours, but they don't have a Kang.
If my alliance ever faces them, we will beat them just because one alliance member got lucky and pulled Kang?

That makes sense to you?

Draco2199

Psymonsez68 wrote: »

Maximize your diversity! And 1 champ wont matter

Yes skill doesn't matter anymore it's all about the collection.

Run477

Dexterity vs me is the same thing as being against md in gernrral. The whole reason to have md on defense is for the dexterity triggers. Unstoppable colossus is pretty much a terrible champ minus the dexterity triggers fueling md from trying to bait specials. The same goes for magik. She's a pretty easy champ to beat minus max md and dexterity.

U can't separate the issue. Turning off the dex trigger effectively makes md meaningless as a defensive strategy. No champs possible buff enough except for maybe Mordo and Hyperion to make md challenging without dex triggers.

So when someone says, "let's just not let dex trigger md" (whether at all or just when u "hit" someone), they are really advocating for md being effectively out of wars.

Additionalky, he has at one point said that he would be okay with just the latter (only expiring when a hit occurs), but I have watched videos where he complains that kabam needs to "fix" dexterity in precisely that scenario as well.

R4GE

I'm not one to argue MD, I like its usefulness for both attack and defense. I can work around it in AW so I don't complain. But I am also understanding to many players complaints that if dexterity doesn't stack than it shouldn't be treated as it does against MD. I get it, the argument is valid. Doesn't make me against MD though

Draco2199

Heywood wrote: »

Psymonsez68 wrote: »

Maximize your diversity! And 1 champ wont matter

Of course we are maximizing diversity. We have 105 unique champs that we will place.
We will lose to alliances that place 105 champs with a higher defender rating. We will win against alliances with 105 unique champs with a lower defender rating.

Like @TBJ1118 said - Their alliance rating is similar to ours, but they don't have a Kang.
If my alliance ever faces them, we will beat them just because one alliance member got lucky and pulled Kang?

That makes sense to you?

It's obvious this is just trolling, its best at this point to ignore. Our concerns are very valid. Right now I think AW should just be on auto fight. As thats who wins are determined now.

Thawnim

Draco2199 wrote: »

Psymonsez68 wrote: »

Maximize your diversity! And 1 champ wont matter

Yes skill doesn't matter anymore it's all about the collection.

The fault with your assumption is that you assume the top alliances have 5* Kamalas and 5* She-Hulks ranked up to R4/55 already. I don't believe that to be the case so defender rating will be a wash if somehow diversity points were practically the same.

Voluntaris

I agree that dexterity refreshing should not proc MD ... and I have 5/5 MD.

If the dexterity refresh no longer proc'd MD, MD will still shut down the large amount of attackers that use buffs for their attack (CrossBones, Hyperion and many others).

MEKA5

I believe the problems about the current condition of AW are not directly related to dexterity and MD.
It's the scoring system that does not reward skills. Attackers kills and defenders kills had the purpose to make you feel your fight had a purpose. They motivated you to be a better player.
Now there's no real challenge. Also showing all defenders classes in high tiers it's just a bad idea, since that hidden variable was something nice to play out as a strategy for defense.

BigDude

I for one think the refresh of dexterity is a problem. Once you hit, dexterity should trigger MD. But dodging continuously shouldn't trigger MD. My understanding is 99% of people arguing for a different dexterity MD interaction want that change. Not eliminate dexterity as a trigger.

Kpatrix

If I'm not mistaken, mmx just lost their 3rd or 4th war ever. Core and legion are about the same. These alliances have always been dominant and very rarely lost in the previous system. They just have stronger teams and skilled players. This new system isn't changing anything in regards to a lower rated alliance chances on beating them, they never had a chance anyway.

There will always be a winner and a loser. Most alliances are happy to win 7-8 out of 10, some are happy at 5-6. This new system isn't going to cause anyone to lose every war they play. Everyone seems to be taking for granted that every war will be 100% completion for both teams and that's not the case. Some guys may get ko'd and as a whole the alliance may not feel like the rewards are worth the resources needed to keep pushing. Some guys would rather take a loss and use their items or units elsewhere. Others may only focus on war, and those are the matches that were usually lost in the previous system.

Still, I agree that in a tie, defender kills should have some merit, and there should be another metric besides diversity and defender rating. I even think that the team facing stronger defenders should have the edge here, but that just allows more manipulation and people would complain about losing because their defenders were too strong. There is always going to be something people disagree with. So maybe there can be a middle ground using a formula that takes diversity, defender rating, and defender kills into consideration for tie breakers.

Another thing, if you think this new map is too easy, then challenge yourself with using different champs, and not just your best attackers. Save those for questing or put them on defense to boost your defensive rating. The only reason I see people calling this new system broken is because they are searching for loopholes and seeing some they can't overcome at the moment. That's common for 99% of the alliances. If you want to consistently win wars, then you will have to adjust to the system in place now, and if you're clearing the map 100% every war without using items, then the only thing you are losing costs you is some shards in rewards. That is the only other thing that I think needs to be adjusted because of the introduction of 6* announcement. Other than that, just play. It's not rocket science or life and death, just develop a strategy and play.

Quick Links

All Categories
Recent Posts
Activity
Best Of