Sabretooth and Sasquatch Synergy [Merged Threads]

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  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 2,267 ★★★★
    edited July 14

    Alright everybody, we've read your feedback and thoughts, and we agree with a solution that's been tossed around here.

    We're going to apply a Cap of 25(at least, we're still tuning) on the amount of Permanent Passive Fury Effects that Sabretooth can have on him at a time. He can still gain Fury buffs, or Furies from nodes, etc. but the permanent fury effects he receives from his kit will never exceed 25(or whatever number is settled on).

    This is a number that is feasibly higher than ST is capable of hitting with his basekit right now, and still gives him the potential to be a very potent attacker.

    Thoughts?

    Seema fair to me, because in the majority of Realistic Scenarios we probably couldn't reach 50+ Fury Passives due to the Limit of 5 Conversions Per Fight and the Limited Amount of Fights in each Quest. As well at around 25 Fury Passives the enemy probably wouldn't survive long enough for you to get all 5 possible Furies and still use an Sp3 to refresh the Persistent Charge, unless of course you spent tons of Revives and Potions but again no one is Realistically gonna do that.

    Also we Really appreciate the Added Communication and wanting to compromise when it comes to situations like this, thanks!
  • K00shMaanK00shMaan Posts: 200
    I still find it funny that they Kabam can be so oblivious to the power of this synergy. I mean, one of the games biggest content creators was about to pull a complete 180 on his strategy for one of the most challenging pieces of content in the game and they had no idea.
  • VespasianVespasian Posts: 4

    Alright everybody, we've read your feedback and thoughts, and we agree with a solution that's been tossed around here.

    We're going to apply a Cap of 25(at least, we're still tuning) on the amount of Permanent Passive Fury Effects that Sabretooth can have on him at a time. He can still gain Fury buffs, or Furies from nodes, etc. but the permanent fury effects he receives from his kit will never exceed 25(or whatever number is settled on).

    This is a number that is feasibly higher than ST is capable of hitting with his basekit right now, and still gives him the potential to be a very potent attacker.

    Thoughts?

    Here’s the issue that raises: the reason it was originally 15 is because you can reach that even if you get the minimum number of Persistent Charges (3). You’re only fully ramped up for one fight before losing the Furys, but it’s possible.

    But if you raise the cap to 25 and prevent Furies from being gained beyond the 5 by any means, if you get 3 or 4 Persistent Charges, that number’s impossible to achieve. So now you’re not going to be able to fully ramp up unless you’re using the synergy.

    So if this is the solution that is decided on, shouldn’t the Persistent Charge count also change to give a minimum of 5 and not punish people who don’t use/have access to the synergy?
  • WhatElseWhatElse Posts: 45
    Really happy to Kabam’s positioning. That’s the right direction.
  • KDoggg2017KDoggg2017 Posts: 474 ★★★

    Alright everybody, we've read your feedback and thoughts, and we agree with a solution that's been tossed around here.

    We're going to apply a Cap of 25(at least, we're still tuning) on the amount of Permanent Passive Fury Effects that Sabretooth can have on him at a time. He can still gain Fury buffs, or Furies from nodes, etc. but the permanent fury effects he receives from his kit will never exceed 25(or whatever number is settled on).

    This is a number that is feasibly higher than ST is capable of hitting with his basekit right now, and still gives him the potential to be a very potent attacker.

    Thoughts?

    I feel like 30 furies is ideal for this reason:

    We were already reaching 30 furies without the Sasquatch synergy. (Video proof has been posted multiple times, including in this very thread).
    Having this ability lowered indirectly by a new synergy would feel pretty bad.
    Where is the video evidence of this? The highest possible amount of furies to obtain was 23:
    1st fight gives 7
    2nd fight gives another 7
    3rd gives 3
    4,5 and 6th each give 2
    7+7+3+2+2+2= 23
    Not sure how you’re supposed to get 30 without the synergy
    Videos have been posted in several threads showing ST collect each one of 26-30 furies. If you scroll up, someone posted 1 such video in this thread.
  • VespasianVespasian Posts: 4

    Alright, so we're moving ahead with this change:

    Sabretooth will be given a cap of 30 Permanent Passive Fury Effects that he can have on him at a time. He can still gain Fury buffs, or Furies from nodes, etc. but the permanent fury effects he receives from his kit will never exceed 30.

    Seconds too late :(

    Will his Persistent Charges be changed so he gets 6 minimum and can fully ramp up even without the synergy?
  • K00shMaanK00shMaan Posts: 200
    Also, I think it'd be nice if there was a

    Alright everybody, we've read your feedback and thoughts, and we agree with a solution that's been tossed around here.

    We're going to apply a Cap of 25(at least, we're still tuning) on the amount of Permanent Passive Fury Effects that Sabretooth can have on him at a time. He can still gain Fury buffs, or Furies from nodes, etc. but the permanent fury effects he receives from his kit will never exceed 25(or whatever number is settled on).

    This is a number that is feasibly higher than ST is capable of hitting with his basekit right now, and still gives him the potential to be a very potent attacker.

    Thoughts?

    I feel like 30 furies is ideal for this reason:

    We were already reaching 30 furies without the Sasquatch synergy. (Video proof has been posted multiple times, including in this very thread).
    Having this ability lowered indirectly by a new synergy would feel pretty bad.
    Where is the video evidence of this? The highest possible amount of furies to obtain was 23:
    1st fight gives 7
    2nd fight gives another 7
    3rd gives 3
    4,5 and 6th each give 2
    7+7+3+2+2+2= 23
    Not sure how you’re supposed to get 30 without the synergy
    30 is possible with his mutant synergy but you’d need a full mutant path to do that
    There are other synergys that can give him a Fury, Heimdall has one but there may be others
  • cgagecgage Posts: 2
    Would a better solution be to remove the ability to save active furies when quitting a fight? For Abyss, this would mean revive cheese only gets you to 15 furies during the first fight, but by the time you get to Collector you could have over 50 furies. Maybe this makes him a less feasible option, but it'd be fun to retain the "infinite" ramp up potential.
  • paulosrmpaulosrm Posts: 28
    People need to spend a lot of revives to ramp him up or use him in a really long path to receive a real bonus at the last fights. So... You should leave as it is or do a way higher cap (around 50?) to make him useful.
  • VespasianVespasian Posts: 4
    edited July 14
    Djin said:

    Vespasian said:

    Alright everybody, we've read your feedback and thoughts, and we agree with a solution that's been tossed around here.

    We're going to apply a Cap of 25(at least, we're still tuning) on the amount of Permanent Passive Fury Effects that Sabretooth can have on him at a time. He can still gain Fury buffs, or Furies from nodes, etc. but the permanent fury effects he receives from his kit will never exceed 25(or whatever number is settled on).

    This is a number that is feasibly higher than ST is capable of hitting with his basekit right now, and still gives him the potential to be a very potent attacker.

    Thoughts?

    Here’s the issue that raises: the reason it was originally 15 is because you can reach that even if you get the minimum number of Persistent Charges (3). You’re only fully ramped up for one fight before losing the Furys, but it’s possible.

    But if you raise the cap to 25 and prevent Furies from being gained beyond the 5 by any means, if you get 3 or 4 Persistent Charges, that number’s impossible to achieve. So now you’re not going to be able to fully ramp up unless you’re using the synergy.

    So if this is the solution that is decided on, shouldn’t the Persistent Charge count also change to give a minimum of 5 and not punish people who don’t use/have access to the synergy?
    That's the purpose of this synergy now. If you want fully ramped up ST you have to use the synergy.
    I know a lot of characters get amazing bonus abilities from specific synergies, but is there any character in the game that can’t reach their max potential (as described in their own abilities) without the help of a synergy?

    I like the change, I just don’t want Sabretooth to unintentionally be made worse because he can’t even reach his own ceiling by himself.
  • K00shMaanK00shMaan Posts: 200
    cgage said:

    Would a better solution be to remove the ability to save active furies when quitting a fight? For Abyss, this would mean revive cheese only gets you to 15 furies during the first fight, but by the time you get to Collector you could have over 50 furies. Maybe this makes him a less feasible option, but it'd be fun to retain the "infinite" ramp up potential.

    I think implementing that would require a fundamental change to gameplay mechanics that would affect many other characters as well. Not a bad idea but it might break more than it fixes.
  • Dart1981Dart1981 Posts: 37

    Alright, so we're moving ahead with this change:

    Sabretooth will be given a cap of 30 Permanent Passive Fury Effects that he can have on him at a time. He can still gain Fury buffs, or Furies from nodes, etc. but the permanent fury effects he receives from his kit will never exceed 30.

    Excellent compromise @Kabam Miike and the rest of the kabam team. Kudos for listening and making this a win win for the company and players. I look for to trying this new synergy out
  • _Kill_Switch__Kill_Switch_ Posts: 182

    Alright, so we're moving ahead with this change:

    Sabretooth will be given a cap of 30 Permanent Passive Fury Effects that he can have on him at a time. He can still gain Fury buffs, or Furies from nodes, etc. but the permanent fury effects he receives from his kit will never exceed 30.

    30 is a satisfying number. Not as satisfying as infinite but workable :)
    The method of reaching those incredible numbers was unrealistic anyway so a cap on 30, steadily attainable over a number of fights is balanced in my opinion.
    Thank you @Kabam Miike!
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,272 ★★★★
    edited July 14
    Nice!
  • BigMikeBigMike Posts: 8

    Alright, so we're moving ahead with this change:

    Sabretooth will be given a cap of 30 Permanent Passive Fury Effects that he can have on him at a time. He can still gain Fury buffs, or Furies from nodes, etc. but the permanent fury effects he receives from his kit will never exceed 30.

    What I'm interested to know is are those that bought sabertooth crystals going to be refunded/have their account rolled back. Also interested to know of any possible compensation for them.

    I've been playing this game since December 2015 and I'm sorry but kabam have a track record of this "lack of foresight" to put it kindly.

    Several occasions champs have been rolled out and summoners have invested in only for the champ to be nerf or smaller changes only a few weeks or months down the line.
    They acknowledged that they was aware of the Sabertooth "bug" yet created this synergy as if they had no idea it would be exploited in this way. Something doesn't add up.

    Also all of a sudden you can make changes to Sabertooth after only a couple days yet Scarlet Witch still to this day power drains herself along with the opponent and that bug has been allowed to stand for years. Go figure
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 2,296 ★★★★★
    Big props to Kabam for getting ahead of this and listening to our feedback! 30 furies is the perfect compromise and I really appreciate working with us for this!
  • KingKevin8KingKevin8 Posts: 78
    edited July 14

    Alright, so we're moving ahead with this change:

    Sabretooth will be given a cap of 30 Permanent Passive Fury Effects that he can have on him at a time. He can still gain Fury buffs, or Furies from nodes, etc. but the permanent fury effects he receives from his kit will never exceed 30.

    Fair enough. He's much better than he was before, but not broken. Good job on this one @Kabam Miike !
    Also I have a question, does this mean he will be able to ramp up 5 furies per fight, up to 30 or will he only be able to get 5 furies in his first 3 fights (up to 15) and have to ramp up 2 per fight after that?
  • VespasianVespasian Posts: 4
    Djin said:

    Vespasian said:

    Alright everybody, we've read your feedback and thoughts, and we agree with a solution that's been tossed around here.

    We're going to apply a Cap of 25(at least, we're still tuning) on the amount of Permanent Passive Fury Effects that Sabretooth can have on him at a time. He can still gain Fury buffs, or Furies from nodes, etc. but the permanent fury effects he receives from his kit will never exceed 25(or whatever number is settled on).

    This is a number that is feasibly higher than ST is capable of hitting with his basekit right now, and still gives him the potential to be a very potent attacker.

    Thoughts?

    Here’s the issue that raises: the reason it was originally 15 is because you can reach that even if you get the minimum number of Persistent Charges (3). You’re only fully ramped up for one fight before losing the Furys, but it’s possible.

    But if you raise the cap to 25 and prevent Furies from being gained beyond the 5 by any means, if you get 3 or 4 Persistent Charges, that number’s impossible to achieve. So now you’re not going to be able to fully ramp up unless you’re using the synergy.

    So if this is the solution that is decided on, shouldn’t the Persistent Charge count also change to give a minimum of 5 and not punish people who don’t use/have access to the synergy?
    That's the purpose of this synergy now. If you want fully ramped up ST you have to use the synergy.
    Does any character need to rely on a synergy to reach the max potential as described in their own abilities though? I know plenty get amazing synergy benefits but I can’t think of a single one who needs a synergy to fully ramp up their own abilities.
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