Show Up Difficulty Feedback [Title Edited for Clarity]

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  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,365 ★★★★★
    Ya_Boi_28 said:

    Lormif said:

    Jaded said:

    Lormif said:

    Jaded said:

    Lormif said:

    Jaded said:

    Lormif said:

    Jaded said:

    Lormif said:

    RogerRabs said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Djin said:

    So, for the next week bosses, can we make them a little bit harder and challenging?

    Like, make Captain Marvel immune to the damage back from mystic champions. And IW IM should have some healing abilities, so that we need to outdamage it.

    Just some ideas. Don't make them as easier as this silver surfer was

    Also increase the rewards.
    I wouldn't mind that.
    Or just completely remove them so that there are no complaints. Players would focus more on the challenge itself rather than any rewards
    It is sad, and it wouldn't solve everything, but it does seem like if Kabam wants to put a high tier challenge into the game they cannot a) use flavor text to describe it anywhere and b) they cannot include any non-cosmetic rewards of any kind. its crazy to think every high challenge content will need long-winded semantic disclaimers, but that seems to be the case.

    On the subject of the content itself. To me personally, this is exactly what challenge content is supposed to be. First of all, it isn't challenging to everyone, because everyone has different skills. Its going to be plain out of reach of some, and something that is trivial for others. But for those that aren't masters of fighting Silver Surfer in all respects, the fight is long enough you can't burst through it, and complex enough to allow for theorycrafting. And if you aren't an expert at fighting Silver Surfer, it is a zero-energy map with only the one fight on it. In those respects, it is like Infinity Thanos.

    And I am one of those players that sucks rocks fighting Silver Surfer. Or rather, I *was* one of those players that suck fighting Silver Surfer. I'm not ashamed to admit I practiced that fight so many times yesterday I really can't count them. Dozens, easily. More than fifty possibly. And all that practice went into learning how to evade his SP2 reliably, and also to learn his AI cues and patterns, of which he has several. I'd say I'm literally a hundred times better at fighting him today.

    I did finally get an itemless run, although not a 100% solo one. I did about 85% with Medusa, and mopped up the rest with Colossus and Venom (who's surprisingly effective, although Venom seems to always be surprisingly effective). For someone that was dying 10% into the fight in the first run, I consider that an accomplishment.

    Is all that effort worth 3000 5* shards and whatever gold? Not really. But was it worth *doing*? Yeah, because I like challenges and this was exactly the kind of challenge I like: it is condensed (into a single fight), it costs no energy, there's lots of time to try it and the rewards are incidental so there's no pressure to spend to finish. I'm glad I finished it before it was nerfed honestly. I made it a point to do so in fact. I'm a measurably better player coming out than going in. That in and of itself is worth it.

    To the people saying this was poorly designed, most of whom think it was too difficult but a tiny minority who think it was just boring, I think there's two things to say. First, to the players who think the level of difficulty isn't fun, well, that's relative. Some players like challenging content, where the definition of "challenging" is "I'm not sure I can complete it," If you're sure you can complete it, that's not really a challenge. And it is important to note there aren't many things, if any, that the vast majority of players all find equally fun. Content doesn't target the majority, it targets as many minorities as possible. And for those that thought it was easy but boring, well, the converse applies. Maybe you're a god fighting Surfer but not everyone is. Maybe you're an expert at this kind of fight, but not everyone is. There's no way to make something that is challenging for everyone because everyone has different skill sets. Sometimes the skill set being challenged is something to acquired a year ago, and the rest of it is just a slog. But you complain about it at your own peril, because there's no such thing as making it always challenging for you. If you want content that tests skill, sometimes it is going to test skills you already have in abundance but not everyone has. You either tolerate that, or you slowly but surely weed out skill based challenges in favor of more quantitative ones.

    Nothing is perfect, and that includes this fight. But it was exactly as advertised: something that replicates the difficulty of the Showdown, but with some specific modifications. It was doable with the right set of skills and didn't require ludicrously rare counters (regardless of claims to the contrary). It contained only token rewards, so anyone who couldn't do it - and most players should fail challenging content, or it isn't challenging - wouldn't be missing out on much.

    It is one thing to think that the content or the way it was marketed could be improved. That's *always* true. But to think that our playerbase can't accommodate something like this, marketed like this, because it is going to generate the kind of reaction it has, in my opinion doesn't reflect well on us at all.
    DNA3000 said:

    Djin said:

    So, for the next week bosses, can we make them a little bit harder and challenging?

    Like, make Captain Marvel immune to the damage back from mystic champions. And IW IM should have some healing abilities, so that we need to outdamage it.

    Just some ideas. Don't make them as easier as this silver surfer was

    Also increase the rewards.
    I wouldn't mind that.
    Or just completely remove them so that there are no complaints. Players would focus more on the challenge itself rather than any rewards
    It is sad, and it wouldn't solve everything, but it does seem like if Kabam wants to put a high tier challenge into the game they cannot a) use flavor text to describe it anywhere and b) they cannot include any non-cosmetic rewards of any kind. its crazy to think every high challenge content will need long-winded semantic disclaimers, but that seems to be the case.

    On the subject of the content itself. To me personally, this is exactly what challenge content is supposed to be. First of all, it isn't challenging to everyone, because everyone has different skills. Its going to be plain out of reach of some, and something that is trivial for others. But for those that aren't masters of fighting Silver Surfer in all respects, the fight is long enough you can't burst through it, and complex enough to allow for theorycrafting. And if you aren't an expert at fighting Silver Surfer, it is a zero-energy map with only the one fight on it. In those respects, it is like Infinity Thanos.

    And I am one of those players that sucks rocks fighting Silver Surfer. Or rather, I *was* one of those players that suck fighting Silver Surfer. I'm not ashamed to admit I practiced that fight so many times yesterday I really can't count them. Dozens, easily. More than fifty possibly. And all that practice went into learning how to evade his SP2 reliably, and also to learn his AI cues and patterns, of which he has several. I'd say I'm literally a hundred times better at fighting him today.

    I did finally get an itemless run, although not a 100% solo one. I did about 85% with Medusa, and mopped up the rest with Colossus and Venom (who's surprisingly effective, although Venom seems to always be surprisingly effective). For someone that was dying 10% into the fight in the first run, I consider that an accomplishment.

    Is all that effort worth 3000 5* shards and whatever gold? Not really. But was it worth *doing*? Yeah, because I like challenges and this was exactly the kind of challenge I like: it is condensed (into a single fight), it costs no energy, there's lots of time to try it and the rewards are incidental so there's no pressure to spend to finish. I'm glad I finished it before it was nerfed honestly. I made it a point to do so in fact. I'm a measurably better player coming out than going in. That in and of itself is worth it.

    To the people saying this was poorly designed, most of whom think it was too difficult but a tiny minority who think it was just boring, I think there's two things to say. First, to the players who think the level of difficulty isn't fun, well, that's relative. Some players like challenging content, where the definition of "challenging" is "I'm not sure I can complete it," If you're sure you can complete it, that's not really a challenge. And it is important to note there aren't many things, if any, that the vast majority of players all find equally fun. Content doesn't target the majority, it targets as many minorities as possible. And for those that thought it was easy but boring, well, the converse applies. Maybe you're a god fighting Surfer but not everyone is. Maybe you're an expert at this kind of fight, but not everyone is. There's no way to make something that is challenging for everyone because everyone has different skill sets. Sometimes the skill set being challenged is something to acquired a year ago, and the rest of it is just a slog. But you complain about it at your own peril, because there's no such thing as making it always challenging for you. If you want content that tests skill, sometimes it is going to test skills you already have in abundance but not everyone has. You either tolerate that, or you slowly but surely weed out skill based challenges in favor of more quantitative ones.

    Nothing is perfect, and that includes this fight. But it was exactly as advertised: something that replicates the difficulty of the Showdown, but with some specific modifications. It was doable with the right set of skills and didn't require ludicrously rare counters (regardless of claims to the contrary). It contained only token rewards, so anyone who couldn't do it - and most players should fail challenging content, or it isn't challenging - wouldn't be missing out on much.

    It is one thing to think that the content or the way it was marketed could be improved. That's *always* true. But to think that our playerbase can't accommodate something like this, marketed like this, because it is going to generate the kind of reaction it has, in my opinion doesn't reflect well on us at all.
    I feel like they had a chance to accommodate both the challenge seekers and the more casual players. In fact that seemed like the main reason why they created the second difficulty. If that wasn't their intention, I don't think it's fair to say people need a "long-winded semantic disclaimer" to understand. Not everyone has a background in game design that you seem to have and things that appear like obvious markers to you fly over the average players head.

    This reaction was also entirely predictable. As soon as I saw 1.4m health with the node combination I knew there would be mass outrage.
    A background in game design is not needed. Understanding that "everyone can participate" does not mean "everyone can win without work" is not a matter of a background in game design, it is really just a matter of taking a sentence and reading it as it is without adding massive assumptions. The problem is we as a society have an issue that we look at things, and we dont read them as they are stated, but add our own context and then refuse to see that it is not what is being stated, and demand that what was stated be changed to meet the definition of the person making the assumption. That is what happened here.
    It isn’t, that is just an explanation of why you’re arguing. 👍
    no, that is literally the issue here, the arguments that have been resented in this very same thread as the issue.
    Exactly the point I made about your argument. Others express their opinion on the wording. You didn’t have to respond to them or make an argument out of it. It’s legitimately your argument. People are allowed to interpret any way they want. Not everyone reading the forums are English speaking and when English is converted to another language it doesn’t always make sense.

    I just got sucked into his argument 🤦‍♂️
    No, people are not allowed to interpret things anyway they want. If I make a statement there is only one correct interpretation of that statement, the way I stated it. If you interpret it as a way I did not state it, and completely outside of the context, your interpretation is wrong. If I say 2+2=4 and you interpret that to mean 2+2=5, there is no way your interpretation can be viewed as legitimate.
    It’s not your job to make it clear to people.
    No one ever said it was my job, I have a job, I get paid quite well for what I do, but I never claimed this was it.. But hey, way to move them goal posts further.
    You’ve lost your mind, telling me I’ve moved goal posts now? I said it’s not your job to make statements made by kabam clear to everyone. That counts as moving goal posts? I’m sure you literally grasp at nothing to make something.
    Moving the goal posts is when you make one argument, such as anyone is allowed to interpret anything how they want, then when confronted with a counter argument instead of addressing the counter argument you make a completely different argument, such as it is not your job...

    It is also not your job to tell me what my job is, but here you are.
    I think you're misunderstanding. No-one is obligated to defend Kabam, therefore it isn't anyone's job.
    I think you are misunderstanding, my statements were not about defending kabam, it was about pointing out the faulty logic used by you and others to justify your clear misinterpretation of what was stated. It being in defense of kabam was just a side effect. It would not matter if you did it to another player or another company. Faulty logic is faulty logic, and I call it out when I see it.

    And again, no one is obligated to call out another player, therefore it is not their job, yet here you are. Being someones job is not a requirement, for anyone, but you keep doing it, but you dont like it when it comes to the other side.
  • FallencircusFallencircus Posts: 339 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Djin said:

    So, for the next week bosses, can we make them a little bit harder and challenging?

    Like, make Captain Marvel immune to the damage back from mystic champions. And IW IM should have some healing abilities, so that we need to outdamage it.

    Just some ideas. Don't make them as easier as this silver surfer was

    Also increase the rewards.
    I wouldn't mind that.
    Or just completely remove them so that there are no complaints. Players would focus more on the challenge itself rather than any rewards
    It is sad, and it wouldn't solve everything, but it does seem like if Kabam wants to put a high tier challenge into the game they cannot a) use flavor text to describe it anywhere and b) they cannot include any non-cosmetic rewards of any kind. its crazy to think every high challenge content will need long-winded semantic disclaimers, but that seems to be the case.

    On the subject of the content itself. To me personally, this is exactly what challenge content is supposed to be. First of all, it isn't challenging to everyone, because everyone has different skills. Its going to be plain out of reach of some, and something that is trivial for others. But for those that aren't masters of fighting Silver Surfer in all respects, the fight is long enough you can't burst through it, and complex enough to allow for theorycrafting. And if you aren't an expert at fighting Silver Surfer, it is a zero-energy map with only the one fight on it. In those respects, it is like Infinity Thanos.

    And I am one of those players that sucks rocks fighting Silver Surfer. Or rather, I *was* one of those players that suck fighting Silver Surfer. I'm not ashamed to admit I practiced that fight so many times yesterday I really can't count them. Dozens, easily. More than fifty possibly. And all that practice went into learning how to evade his SP2 reliably, and also to learn his AI cues and patterns, of which he has several. I'd say I'm literally a hundred times better at fighting him today.

    I did finally get an itemless run, although not a 100% solo one. I did about 85% with Medusa, and mopped up the rest with Colossus and Venom (who's surprisingly effective, although Venom seems to always be surprisingly effective). For someone that was dying 10% into the fight in the first run, I consider that an accomplishment.

    Is all that effort worth 3000 5* shards and whatever gold? Not really. But was it worth *doing*? Yeah, because I like challenges and this was exactly the kind of challenge I like: it is condensed (into a single fight), it costs no energy, there's lots of time to try it and the rewards are incidental so there's no pressure to spend to finish. I'm glad I finished it before it was nerfed honestly. I made it a point to do so in fact. I'm a measurably better player coming out than going in. That in and of itself is worth it.

    To the people saying this was poorly designed, most of whom think it was too difficult but a tiny minority who think it was just boring, I think there's two things to say. First, to the players who think the level of difficulty isn't fun, well, that's relative. Some players like challenging content, where the definition of "challenging" is "I'm not sure I can complete it," If you're sure you can complete it, that's not really a challenge. And it is important to note there aren't many things, if any, that the vast majority of players all find equally fun. Content doesn't target the majority, it targets as many minorities as possible. And for those that thought it was easy but boring, well, the converse applies. Maybe you're a god fighting Surfer but not everyone is. Maybe you're an expert at this kind of fight, but not everyone is. There's no way to make something that is challenging for everyone because everyone has different skill sets. Sometimes the skill set being challenged is something to acquired a year ago, and the rest of it is just a slog. But you complain about it at your own peril, because there's no such thing as making it always challenging for you. If you want content that tests skill, sometimes it is going to test skills you already have in abundance but not everyone has. You either tolerate that, or you slowly but surely weed out skill based challenges in favor of more quantitative ones.

    Nothing is perfect, and that includes this fight. But it was exactly as advertised: something that replicates the difficulty of the Showdown, but with some specific modifications. It was doable with the right set of skills and didn't require ludicrously rare counters (regardless of claims to the contrary). It contained only token rewards, so anyone who couldn't do it - and most players should fail challenging content, or it isn't challenging - wouldn't be missing out on much.

    It is one thing to think that the content or the way it was marketed could be improved. That's *always* true. But to think that our playerbase can't accommodate something like this, marketed like this, because it is going to generate the kind of reaction it has, in my opinion doesn't reflect well on us at all.
    I enjoyed the challenge of it and I would have kept playing but the rewards for time commitment, skill, and resources to get a 4* to rank 5 were not reflected in the rewards. I for one welcome difficult content, but the rewards need to justify.
    The summer smackdown as an example gives 6k 5* and 500 6* and for me, took less time and 0 items to complete. Cavalier difficulty single run through is 2500 5* shards, 900 6* and a bunch of other stuff. It takes more time but I can autofight the first chapter and again use 0 items. Just make the rewards match the difficulty. Otherwise we get The Maze.
    FWIW, I think they tuned it down too much for the rewards.
  • KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    Has the nerf gone live yet? Nothing has changed on my game yet and I’m wondering if it’s just me or not.

    It hasn't gone live for me yet either
  • AncelAncel Posts: 105
    Dear Kabam, I love this game and am supporting it, but I’m trying to progress but I can’t when I have r4 4*s and r2 5*s as my best champions and you put 1.4m boss
  • HieitakuHieitaku Posts: 1,283 ★★★★★
    Is the rebalance in the game already? I'm still seeing the 4* restriction and 1.4mil hp Surfer.
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 4,970 ★★★★★
    Ancel said:

    Dear Kabam, I love this game and am supporting it, but I’m trying to progress but I can’t when I have r4 4*s and r2 5*s as my best champions and you put 1.4m boss

    Well then this event isn’t made for you and you should just skip it. Not every event is meant for everyone to do. However, this fight is doable with a r4 Colossus and a few revives if you’re desperate
  • CiciliatoCiciliato Posts: 301
    gohard123 said:

    So two challenges made exactly the same except one counts and is competitive but people are arguing that the other one should not be toned down for the rest of the community that dont want to compete? If you want a challenge do the one that counts. I dont get the argument here

    Some places unfortunately can't even compete for rewards, so there's only one rewarding challenge
  • Bidzy7Bidzy7 Posts: 369 ★★★
    edited August 2020

    Ancel said:

    Dear Kabam, I love this game and am supporting it, but I’m trying to progress but I can’t when I have r4 4*s and r2 5*s as my best champions and you put 1.4m boss

    Well then this event isn’t made for you and you should just skip it. Not every event is meant for everyone to do. However, this fight is doable with a r4 Colossus and a few revives if you’re desperate
    also doable with a r4 colossus and 0 revives, takes just under 300 hits to do with full synergy team. Mediums criting for 9k and lights for 5k once fully ramped up and full crit sp2 does around 70k damage.
  • Austin555555Austin555555 Posts: 2,985 ★★★★★

    Hey all,

    This is correct. This is a participation event for that want to be a part of the Summoner Showdown, but don't feel comfortable competing in the Showdown qualifiers. It's a taste of what our Competitors are facing and is not meant to be easy.

    It is still meant to be a challenge and a test of skill.

    The amount of disagrees is nuts
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★

    Faseeh said:

    Duff12475 said:

    Duff12475 said:

    So minutes after I completed the "Show-up" difficulty using a few revives, I see this BEAUTIFUL post my Kabaam stating that they are sec

    My message got cut off?? Lmao can't even say what I want to lmao.

    Point was i used a few revives. Where is my compensation???
    Bro i knew this would get nerfed when i saw it. I mean 28 pages of ranting will 100% attract Kabam. Thnx btw kabam.

    Now i think ppl will start believing in roadmap
    No, they'll start believing the more they whine about something being too hard, Kabam will change the content. We'll likely see less and less challenging content because if the majority of "skilled players" can't steamroll something, it needs to be nerfed.

    Betcha 1 million units the minute book 2 is released people will complain about how hard it is and ask for nerfs.
    I am not sure I like the direction of these things. Content gets released. People complain. Content gets nerfed. Compensation threads.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    edited August 2020

    On the bright side, I still managed to beat SS before he got nerfed with my newly ranked Colossus. I did have to use one revive, but I think I could have soloed it if I had more time to practice, I was racing to get it done before he got nerfed. Anyways, yeah this event really does suck, but it’s not horribly sucky. I don’t think the nerf was warranted, I would have preferred to a buff increase instead or to just remove the four star restriction. I’m gonna go in when it’s nerfed and take him down with my 6r3 Sym Supreme, but it’s not gonna be as satisfying since it’s no longer gonna be a 4000% increase healthpool. Can we please keep the health pool at least? With it only being a 1000%, it’s gonna be a joke.

    You don't need to rush. You could always do the showdown difficulty. Thats what I am going to do. But now I can't try any synergies or try something different to tackle niche nodes. I agree on the health pool. Please let the health pool be same.
  • GiganteaGigantea Posts: 111
    Done it with one revive to take down Silver Surfer, long fight.. Colossus with all the nice synergy team. The only downside is I have to take my 4* R1 Colossus to R5.

    I hope Kabam will give some compensation if they want to nerf it.
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 4,970 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    On the bright side, I still managed to beat SS before he got nerfed with my newly ranked Colossus. I did have to use one revive, but I think I could have soloed it if I had more time to practice, I was racing to get it done before he got nerfed. Anyways, yeah this event really does suck, but it’s not horribly sucky. I don’t think the nerf was warranted, I would have preferred to a buff increase instead or to just remove the four star restriction. I’m gonna go in when it’s nerfed and take him down with my 6r3 Sym Supreme, but it’s not gonna be as satisfying since it’s no longer gonna be a 4000% increase healthpool. Can we please keep the health pool at least? With it only being a 1000%, it’s gonna be a joke.

    You don't need to rush. You could always do the showdown difficulty. Thats what I am going to do. But now I can't try any synergies or try something different to tackle niche nodes. I agree on the health pool. Please let the health pool be same.
    Well I’m not able to do the full synergy team in the showdown difficulty. I’m only gonna be able to use Colossus. I’m also uncertain about whether or not I should even bother doing it since I’m not turning on Suicides so I doubt I’d stand a chance of winning. And you don’t getting any rewards just for qualifying for the semifinals.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★

    Pulyaman said:

    On the bright side, I still managed to beat SS before he got nerfed with my newly ranked Colossus. I did have to use one revive, but I think I could have soloed it if I had more time to practice, I was racing to get it done before he got nerfed. Anyways, yeah this event really does suck, but it’s not horribly sucky. I don’t think the nerf was warranted, I would have preferred to a buff increase instead or to just remove the four star restriction. I’m gonna go in when it’s nerfed and take him down with my 6r3 Sym Supreme, but it’s not gonna be as satisfying since it’s no longer gonna be a 4000% increase healthpool. Can we please keep the health pool at least? With it only being a 1000%, it’s gonna be a joke.

    You don't need to rush. You could always do the showdown difficulty. Thats what I am going to do. But now I can't try any synergies or try something different to tackle niche nodes. I agree on the health pool. Please let the health pool be same.
    Well I’m not able to do the full synergy team in the showdown difficulty. I’m only gonna be able to use Colossus. I’m also uncertain about whether or not I should even bother doing it since I’m not turning on Suicides so I doubt I’d stand a chance of winning. And you don’t getting any rewards just for qualifying for the semifinals.
    I cannot participate anyways since my countrt is not included. But it was a way for me to try different things. Oh well. Hope kabam keeps the health pool atleast.
  • GiganteaGigantea Posts: 111
    Gigantea said:

    Done it with one revive to take down Silver Surfer, long fight.. Colossus with all the nice synergy team. The only downside is I have to take my 4* R1 Colossus to R5.

    I hope Kabam will give some compensation if they want to nerf it.


  • MaxxtronMaxxtron Posts: 29

    Alright! Changes coming to Show Up Difficulty:

    So, it's pretty obvious that what we had in mind and what our players had in mind were vastly different. We wanted this to be a replica of what Players in Showdown were going through, but without the Restriction of only 1 Champion. When we said that this was for everybody, we meant that you could be a part of it regardless of your Age, Region, or even if you're not Level 60 and Cavalier.

    But that's not what came across, and not what players expected. You wanted something for everybody, and we get that. We're going to be making the following changes so that the spirit of the fight is still going to be present, but it will be more accessible, and less daunting.

    - Replacing the 4000% Health Increase with 1000% Health Increase
    - Removing the 4-Star Restriction

    This is ONLY for the Show Up Difficulty, and will be carried forward to the next fights as well. Keep in mind, any nodes/buffs and other restrictions will still mirror the Showdown difficulty.

    This will still be a challenge, as it should be, but not as much, and is more in line with celebrating the Summoner Showdown as well.

    This is a wonderful change! I am very impressed that these changes are coming so quickly, yet alone happening at all. But will there be compensation for those of us who spent resources to complete it? I personally ranked up Colossus from r3 to r4 and Medussa from r3 to r5. That's a lot of precious rank up and level up materials. Additionally, I used revives and potions. If the difficulty is just the way it is, well that's my choice (and responsibility) to spend all those resources in an effort to complete exceptionally challenging content. But no way I ever would have spent all those resources with these changes coming. Will there be item compensation including spent units, revives, potions, rank up and level up materials, etc.?
  • Scopeotoe987Scopeotoe987 Posts: 1,499 ★★★★
    Gigantea said:

    Done it with one revive to take down Silver Surfer, long fight.. Colossus with all the nice synergy team. The only downside is I have to take my 4* R1 Colossus to R5.

    I hope Kabam will give some compensation if they want to nerf it.

    Hopefully, the fight is getting toned down a bunch so maybe
  • KDoggg2017KDoggg2017 Posts: 1,012 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Gigantea said:

    Done it with one revive to take down Silver Surfer, long fight.. Colossus with all the nice synergy team. The only downside is I have to take my 4* R1 Colossus to R5.

    I hope Kabam will give some compensation if they want to nerf it.

    Actually, I would be fine with a title that said I did it pre-nerf and that's it. I don't think they should have nerfed it in the first place, because I think it was appropriate as completely optional challenge content. But by the same token, if Kabam decides to open it up to a lower threshold of challenge I don't think I deserve anything back for the effort I put it, as the whole point was for it to be an optional challenge.

    I'll certainly take compensation if they start handing it out, but to be honest I think any of us that decides to tackle content in the first couple days needs to do so fully aware it could change due to bugs, exploits, or community reaction. If that's a problem for someone, they shouldn't do it on day one.
    1000% agree. I tell my alliance that very thing... doing new content on Day 1 will bite you in the butt 20% of the time. Proceed at your own risk.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,045 ★★★★★
    Has anyone tried Mephisto?
  • DNA3000 said:

    Djin said:

    So, for the next week bosses, can we make them a little bit harder and challenging?

    Like, make Captain Marvel immune to the damage back from mystic champions. And IW IM should have some healing abilities, so that we need to outdamage it.

    Just some ideas. Don't make them as easier as this silver surfer was

    Also increase the rewards.
    I wouldn't mind that.
    Or just completely remove them so that there are no complaints. Players would focus more on the challenge itself rather than any rewards
    It is sad, and it wouldn't solve everything, but it does seem like if Kabam wants to put a high tier challenge into the game they cannot a) use flavor text to describe it anywhere and b) they cannot include any non-cosmetic rewards of any kind. its crazy to think every high challenge content will need long-winded semantic disclaimers, but that seems to be the case.

    On the subject of the content itself. To me personally, this is exactly what challenge content is supposed to be. First of all, it isn't challenging to everyone, because everyone has different skills. Its going to be plain out of reach of some, and something that is trivial for others. But for those that aren't masters of fighting Silver Surfer in all respects, the fight is long enough you can't burst through it, and complex enough to allow for theorycrafting. And if you aren't an expert at fighting Silver Surfer, it is a zero-energy map with only the one fight on it. In those respects, it is like Infinity Thanos.

    And I am one of those players that sucks rocks fighting Silver Surfer. Or rather, I *was* one of those players that suck fighting Silver Surfer. I'm not ashamed to admit I practiced that fight so many times yesterday I really can't count them. Dozens, easily. More than fifty possibly. And all that practice went into learning how to evade his SP2 reliably, and also to learn his AI cues and patterns, of which he has several. I'd say I'm literally a hundred times better at fighting him today.

    I did finally get an itemless run, although not a 100% solo one. I did about 85% with Medusa, and mopped up the rest with Colossus and Venom (who's surprisingly effective, although Venom seems to always be surprisingly effective). For someone that was dying 10% into the fight in the first run, I consider that an accomplishment.

    Is all that effort worth 3000 5* shards and whatever gold? Not really. But was it worth *doing*? Yeah, because I like challenges and this was exactly the kind of challenge I like: it is condensed (into a single fight), it costs no energy, there's lots of time to try it and the rewards are incidental so there's no pressure to spend to finish. I'm glad I finished it before it was nerfed honestly. I made it a point to do so in fact. I'm a measurably better player coming out than going in. That in and of itself is worth it.

    To the people saying this was poorly designed, most of whom think it was too difficult but a tiny minority who think it was just boring, I think there's two things to say. First, to the players who think the level of difficulty isn't fun, well, that's relative. Some players like challenging content, where the definition of "challenging" is "I'm not sure I can complete it," If you're sure you can complete it, that's not really a challenge. And it is important to note there aren't many things, if any, that the vast majority of players all find equally fun. Content doesn't target the majority, it targets as many minorities as possible. And for those that thought it was easy but boring, well, the converse applies. Maybe you're a god fighting Surfer but not everyone is. Maybe you're an expert at this kind of fight, but not everyone is. There's no way to make something that is challenging for everyone because everyone has different skill sets. Sometimes the skill set being challenged is something to acquired a year ago, and the rest of it is just a slog. But you complain about it at your own peril, because there's no such thing as making it always challenging for you. If you want content that tests skill, sometimes it is going to test skills you already have in abundance but not everyone has. You either tolerate that, or you slowly but surely weed out skill based challenges in favor of more quantitative ones.

    Nothing is perfect, and that includes this fight. But it was exactly as advertised: something that replicates the difficulty of the Showdown, but with some specific modifications. It was doable with the right set of skills and didn't require ludicrously rare counters (regardless of claims to the contrary). It contained only token rewards, so anyone who couldn't do it - and most players should fail challenging content, or it isn't challenging - wouldn't be missing out on much.

    It is one thing to think that the content or the way it was marketed could be improved. That's *always* true. But to think that our playerbase can't accommodate something like this, marketed like this, because it is going to generate the kind of reaction it has, in my opinion doesn't reflect well on us at all.
    I agree with this 100%
  • ccrider474ccrider474 Posts: 507 ★★★

    Has anyone tried Mephisto?

    I did unfortunately his low damage even with suicides and permanent aura I was at 6 mins and only 25% health off surfer. His attack is too low. Also it seems his dash back is shorter than medusa or col so had to be really on your game as dash back on surfers m got you clipped on second attack.

    For show up col with syn is easiest option but show down medusa is. Lest from my play through.
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