BWCV or SORCERER SUPREME!

Who is better, bwcv or sorcerer supreme and I don't use suicides. And who performs better outside of their comfort I mean in case there is a bad match up who performs better. Thanks for your advice.

Comments

Kill_Grey

Claire is the best mystic in the game with suicides, period. Wanna argue, let's go!
Without suicides, she's definitely top 3 IMO, because she still accesses all her utility without it (except the free Claire charges she gets with suicides, and of course the pretty much doubled heal and almost doubled attack rating in general). Yet to find another champ similar to her, the utility is immense! She's probably the only champ that benefits against opponents where you actually have what would be a "disadvantage" to every other one. You've got free power gain! She's probably the mystic that needs MD the least (apart from magik), and it makes sense, because you can run suicides and put those points you would in MD, into something like despair (which she works amazingly for). She's one of those kind of champs that can go into a quick match fight, or a hidden node somewhere and beat 99% of the opponents you would get (quick match is extremely randomised, and the few champs that I would say are comparable to Claire in those type of scenarios are characters like quake, ghost, void, omega red, and a few others).

Not gonna lie, act 6 is quite a pain in like...all of the time, but Claire is one of those few champs that can actually make it fun! Again, the utility is immense! And people criticising her damage are being ridiculous, with or without suicides, her damage is great! Btw, you're not losing much by not running suicides, as her special 2 energy damage doesn't increase with attack modifiers (which I'm still not sure is supposed to be the case). In other words, don't feel left out because you're not running suicides with her, you're still getting the same damage on your special 2 energy damage in hellfire with or without it (which is where most of her burst damage comes from).

My 5* went to rank 4 like immediately I got her, I've got a lot of catalyst constraints cuz I'm not in an alliance currently, had to use my first ever and only rank 4 gem on her, and I'm positive I'm never regretting that decision, ever!
Continuing past 6.1 because of her (again, she's making it fun!), started like an hour ago, and I've already beat sinister (only 1 revive spent. Also, I have ghost *wink*)

She's making me to never want to turn off Suicides, lol.

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Worknprogress

Claire is a good mystic that gets hyped to all heavens bc of suicide compatability / immunities. That's really her main selling factor. Take that away and she wouldn't even be a top 10 mystic. Other champs such as sorcerer have far better abilities/utility but are horrendous with suicides
I would love to see the list of 10 mystics that are better than Claire without suicides
If you take away her immunities? Doom, Sorcerer, MS, Magik, Voodoo, Sym, and possibly even Longshot at a stretch so yeah maybe top 10 but not by much.
Not if you take away her immunities, if you don't run suicides.
Claire's kit revolves around Immunity and gaining power from it.
It's like saying doom without power steal on sp1 isnt as good, what do you expect?
That's not what I said though. I said take away her immunities. Unless you need one champ to do a lot of things okay or need the immunity, she's just average.

Without suicides easily sorcerer. BWCV is insanely underwhelming without suicides and is really only rated so highly due to her suicide compatability

Claire is a good mystic that gets hyped to all heavens bc of suicide compatability / immunities. That's really her main selling factor. Take that away and she wouldn't even be a top 10 mystic. Other champs such as sorcerer have far better abilities/utility but are horrendous with suicides
You've been acting like the only reason claire is rated so highly is because of suicide compatibility and champs like sorcerer are shafted because the don't synergize well with it.

So I'm curious about where you would place Claire in a mystic list where suicides weren't a factor

I do think she's only rated so highly bc of being able to use suicides. I also don't think other champs are shafted for not working with them at all.

I honestly am not a fan of ranking champs in general as I think it's a fairly pointless exercise. Champs are tools are you use the best tool for a specific job. My issue with Claire is she's rarely ever the best tool. She's just a tool that can be used in a variety of situations.

Taking suicides completely out of the equation if I had to make a "ranking" I personally wouldn't put her higher than 6th or 7th in the mystic class personally. I don't run suicides, other champs buff control better, and other champs power control better. Those are the abilities I want from a mystic. For damage or immunities other classes have better options.

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SwarmOfRavens

Claire is a good mystic that gets hyped to all heavens bc of suicide compatability / immunities. That's really her main selling factor. Take that away and she wouldn't even be a top 10 mystic. Other champs such as sorcerer have far better abilities/utility but are horrendous with suicides
I would love to see the list of 10 mystics that are better than Claire without suicides
If you take away her immunities? Doom, Sorcerer, MS, Magik, Voodoo, Sym, and possibly even Longshot at a stretch so yeah maybe top 10 but not by much.
Not if you take away her immunities, if you don't run suicides.
Claire's kit revolves around Immunity and gaining power from it.
It's like saying doom without power steal on sp1 isnt as good, what do you expect?
That's not what I said though. I said take away her immunities. Unless you need one champ to do a lot of things okay or need the immunity, she's just average.

Without suicides easily sorcerer. BWCV is insanely underwhelming without suicides and is really only rated so highly due to her suicide compatability

Claire is a good mystic that gets hyped to all heavens bc of suicide compatability / immunities. That's really her main selling factor. Take that away and she wouldn't even be a top 10 mystic. Other champs such as sorcerer have far better abilities/utility but are horrendous with suicides
You've been acting like the only reason claire is rated so highly is because of suicide compatibility and champs like sorcerer are shafted because the don't synergize well with it.

So I'm curious about where you would place Claire in a mystic list where suicides weren't a factor
I do think she's only rated so highly bc of being able to use suicides. I also don't think other champs are shafted for not working with them at all.

I honestly am not a fan of ranking champs in general as I think it's a fairly pointless exercise. Champs are tools are you use the best tool for a specific job. My issue with Claire is she's rarely ever the best tool. She's just a tool that can be used in a variety of situations.

Taking suicides completely out of the equation if I had to make a "ranking" I personally wouldn't put her higher than 6th or 7th in the mystic class personally. I don't run suicides, other champs buff control better, and other champs power control better. Those are the abilities I want from a mystic. For damage or immunities other classes have better options.

So at the end of the day it comes down to the fact that you prefer a specialised tool more than a jack of all trades.
You're bias has been showing since your first comment on this thread. Try to remember not everyone has a ridiculously stacked account, Claire is by far the more versatile champ and fits much better in the current state of the game. Let's keep these things objective next time

Savage

I feel like I'm gonna get some hate for this but I maxed out both Morningstar and Tigra over Claire. Don't know why but I did and I kinda don't regret it?

Lunae

I really don’t see the point of comparing Claire to any of the other mystics just due to her immunities alone.

If you need a mystic with immunities, high damage, that’s suicide friendly as well as having amazing utility through her powersteal, powergain, debuffs and regen, well there you go, if you don’t, go with any other mystic.

Rookiie

I feel like I'm gonna get some hate for this but I maxed out both Morningstar and Tigra over Claire. Don't know why but I did and I kinda don't regret it?

Why should you get any hate or feel any pressure for it? Your account you do what you want.

Worknprogress

Claire is a good mystic that gets hyped to all heavens bc of suicide compatability / immunities. That's really her main selling factor. Take that away and she wouldn't even be a top 10 mystic. Other champs such as sorcerer have far better abilities/utility but are horrendous with suicides
I would love to see the list of 10 mystics that are better than Claire without suicides
If you take away her immunities? Doom, Sorcerer, MS, Magik, Voodoo, Sym, and possibly even Longshot at a stretch so yeah maybe top 10 but not by much.
Not if you take away her immunities, if you don't run suicides.
Claire's kit revolves around Immunity and gaining power from it.
It's like saying doom without power steal on sp1 isnt as good, what do you expect?
That's not what I said though. I said take away her immunities. Unless you need one champ to do a lot of things okay or need the immunity, she's just average.

Without suicides easily sorcerer. BWCV is insanely underwhelming without suicides and is really only rated so highly due to her suicide compatability

Claire is a good mystic that gets hyped to all heavens bc of suicide compatability / immunities. That's really her main selling factor. Take that away and she wouldn't even be a top 10 mystic. Other champs such as sorcerer have far better abilities/utility but are horrendous with suicides
You've been acting like the only reason claire is rated so highly is because of suicide compatibility and champs like sorcerer are shafted because the don't synergize well with it.

So I'm curious about where you would place Claire in a mystic list where suicides weren't a factor
I do think she's only rated so highly bc of being able to use suicides. I also don't think other champs are shafted for not working with them at all.

I honestly am not a fan of ranking champs in general as I think it's a fairly pointless exercise. Champs are tools are you use the best tool for a specific job. My issue with Claire is she's rarely ever the best tool. She's just a tool that can be used in a variety of situations.

Taking suicides completely out of the equation if I had to make a "ranking" I personally wouldn't put her higher than 6th or 7th in the mystic class personally. I don't run suicides, other champs buff control better, and other champs power control better. Those are the abilities I want from a mystic. For damage or immunities other classes have better options.
So at the end of the day it comes down to the fact that you prefer a specialised tool more than a jack of all trades.
You're bias has been showing since your first comment on this thread. Try to remember not everyone has a ridiculously stacked account, Claire is by far the more versatile champ and fits much better in the current state of the game. Let's keep these things objective next time

I said that multiple times if you need someone who does a bunch of things okay she's probably great. That's not what it comes down to when saying how good a champ is vs another. People taking their own roster needs into account are the ones not being objective. Rating a champ based on having all of them available is as objective as you can be. That's what I did.

Marvel2289

I went for Sorcerer Supreme, but that is because I already have Claire lol

Joker1976

See where Clair is?,..just below sorcerer supreme,..idk I’m pretty sure this man knows his champs lol,...”buff said”

lowlevelplayer

that's a laughable tier list. Worst of all time. Anyone that has any experience at all with the game knows that it is a complete joke.

Etjama

that's a laughable tier list. Worst of all time. Anyone that has any experience at all with the game knows that it is a complete joke.

Yeah, I have a lot of respect for Lagacy and he's great at the game. But his tier lists suck. Leave em to Seatin. 😂

Adamb208

That’s an old list. Look at his August list and you’ll see he’s got them both at beyond.

They are both great champs. Can’t go wrong.

Etjama

That’s an old list. Look at his August list and you’ll see he’s got them both at beyond.

They are both great champs. Can’t go wrong.

His latest list is still awful.

Worknprogress

that's a laughable tier list. Worst of all time. Anyone that has any experience at all with the game knows that it is a complete joke.

For someone that's done basically nothing in game, you sure do have a lot of opinions about people that have done far more than you

MaxGaming

Mojo

Polygon

Who needs regen on block when Claire can regen with her special. Also insane power control on her special . Also increases damage in hellfire. Suicides are just a buff to her damage since it isn't the best but sorc supreme doesn't have ultra damage either. Also TRIPLE immunities. In the hands of a skilled player she can do pretty much anything. Cough cough second best mystic in the game and arguably best with suicides and yet the little puny fan club of sorc supreme have arrived. Maybe they only have sorc supreme. Cough cough salty. If I get tonnes of disagrees here they are all just an acceptance of the fact that they are salty LOL.

What if youre up against a stacked p99 or bishop, that block damage from specials is just gonna shaft claire, whereas sorcerer can easily just heal massively off the block

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Djin

Without suicides Sorcerer Supreme is better than Claire.
Claire fans can't accept this.

With suicides Claire is better than Sorcerer Supreme.
Sorcerer Supreme fans can't accept this.

shadow_lurker22

See where Clair is?,..just below sorcerer supreme,..idk I’m pretty sure this man knows his champs lol,...”buff said”

You used an outdated list watch his top 5 mystics video he put claire 2nd only behind Doom

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KeepinItReal

In the right match ups sorcerer is just silly. Constant special spamming and finishing act 6 fights on basically a full yellow bar. This was on the countertactics combo party path

https://streamable.com/4a7b80

Sweet SorcS gameplay, not too familiar. Noticed @1:00 Groots "traveling" long SP1. Guess those SPs just part of the game, def can catch me off guard. Lol