If the game becomes too easy, many will leave

The argument of "too easy" is self imposed for lots (but not all) of the complainers.

For example, new content comes out, they immediately rush in with their 6* R3s, mop through it like it was nothing, then sit there crying how easy it was.

Well, duh, what did you expect? Why not use your 3*s or 4*s (if there are no stupid gates) and then play it, and that WILL be more difficult, if that is still too easy, drop down to 2*s & 1*s.

Why must Kabam hold your hand with gates or objectives that force you to use lower level champs?
Do it yourself if you want challenge.

Kabam made it much more difficult with Act 7, and the "too easy" crowd was complaining it was "too hard", so Kabam had to rework it.

I totally agree with you. They spend a ton and have the top champs to do it and the perfect counters at r3 and say its easy. The rest of us, if its any harder would just quit playing just the same and it just would not be fun. I wouldn't mind spending money to get those champs if the offers were reasonable. Like if I'm paying 50 bucks I would expect to be buying that champ. that's a lot of money. Or at least have a really good chance at them not this 1%. Every time I spend it like you feel lucky just no not feel totally ripped off gambling. When you do get good rolls or the champs your going for is the only time you feel like you get what you paying for. It's kinda ridiculous the mindset it gets you in with spending and still do lol.

Just wait and play book 2 when it comes out. Its the harder content and you still can only use the same champs you had for act 6. 6* R3 is still the highest so it will be harder. They just keep making harder and harder content while not being able to get your champs any stronger. Cav difficulty does not need to be any harder, it was perfect. It should be doable so that we can get mats to r3 champs so that we can do book 2.

Just wait and play book 2 when it comes out. Its the harder content and you still can only use the same champs you had for act 6. 6* R3 is still the highest so it will be harder. They just keep making harder and harder content while not being able to get your champs any stronger.

I'm playing the book 2 beta now and well let's just say if it releases as is, I'll be done with Ch1 in a day to 3 days at absolute most.

KingKiah

Not just Brian Grant. Many gamers want challenge and the great feeling after clearing hard content, not digital product that you give us through easy content or selling every day Kabam.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mYp4YTvZ1GU

There’s a difference between challenging hard content and passive fun and interactive damage that gives artificial challenge.
If you recall the game NFS Underground used to have a mechanic “catch up” which if you got too far from the ai it would speed them up to catch up to you
So that you “stay in the race” and gives a more “challenging experience” because getting miles ahead of the enemy isn’t “fun”
If it’s a fake form of challenge then it isn’t really a challenge
Fights that are total road blocks intended to drain your items and units isn’t a challenge. It’s a fake challenge

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TheTalents

i agree . but i also think if they have gotten to a level where they would quit because thier roster is too good an there skills are underutilised then they can leave an make room for the next in the list to get upto to tht level ...

Like I said before the only difficult content released to top tier guys was act 6, LOL when it was first released, ROL when it was first released, and Variant 1 (the Maze was pretty tough too). Abyss isn't even hard if you have the units to revive. Without the hit count Abyss isn't tough outside of 5-8 champions. Act 5 wasn't hard when it was first released. I did it with majority of 4 stars just fine. So this is nothing new.
I think the precedent of the acts becoming hard that was left with 6.2 which created a pretty elite class of only a few individuals being able to complete it is what is missing for the top tier guys. I just think they should forget the acts being hard, it costs kabam too much money and they're not going backwards.
Kabam should just make the side event difficulty beyond Legendary and something that will actually challenge the top guys and make the rewards juicy so they get their monthly fix. I will bang this drumbeat because the top tier guys deserve to have as much fun as top 20% guys like myself who are casual spenders.

Moosetiptronic

If they wack an extra 200% attack boost on cav difficulty, no retreat and 100% energise on nearly every node, and give a super rare title for completing it, would the elitists, who want a challenge in this game, apparently just for the sake of the challenge, play it, *if there were no rewards except for the title*??

@Worknprogress really that's you I would guess?

Or is what you really want, is substantial t5cc and 6* shards locked behind current 6.4 or 6.2.6 champion level difficulty?

Is it really that you want a challenge for challenges sake....?
OR
do you just want rewards for the level of gameplay that you specifically find challenging....?

Because of it is the latter, what about the people, who spend a lot, play a lot, but are still stuck at 6.2.6 and are unlikely to bother with 6.3 or 6.4 or book 2 in their prior format. Who look at current cav difficulty and think it's not going to help them progress given cost, time and hassle to complete it. who aren't playing just to be challenged, but for the rpg esque aspects of growing your roster and upgrading champions?

Should they all just quit? I've had a number of just such people, including some serious spenders in my Alliance who have left because the difficulty was targeted at a beat em up, twitch skills elite.

I am guessing, that the real answer will be in how kabam tweak cav and other difficulty from here on in. As they will continue to grade difficulty and challenge to those that pay the bills.

If that's the elite, then so be it. If that's the average Joe's, then so be it too.

But for those asking for it to be harder, ask yourself, is it for the challenge, or is it for the rewards that give just you the leg up?

If they wack an extra 200% attack boost on cav difficulty, no retreat and 100% energise on nearly every node, and give a super rare title for completing it, would the elitists, who want a challenge in this game, apparently just for the sake of the challenge, play it, *if there were no rewards except for the title*??

@Worknprogress really that's you I would guess?

Or is what you really want, is substantial t5cc and 6* shards locked behind current 6.4 or 6.2.6 champion level difficulty?

Is it really that you want a challenge for challenges sake....?
OR
do you just want rewards for the level of gameplay that you specifically find challenging....?

Because of it is the latter, what about the people, who spend a lot, play a lot, but are still stuck at 6.2.6 and are unlikely to bother with 6.3 or 6.4 or book 2 in their prior format. Who look at current cav difficulty and think it's not going to help them progress given cost, time and hassle to complete it. who aren't playing just to be challenged, but for the rpg esque aspects of growing your roster and upgrading champions?

Should they all just quit? I've had a number of just such people, including some serious spenders in my Alliance who have left because the difficulty was targeted at a beat em up, twitch skills elite.

I am guessing, that the real answer will be in how kabam tweak cav and other difficulty from here on in. As they will continue to grade difficulty and challenge to those that pay the bills.

If that's the elite, then so be it. If that's the average Joe's, then so be it too.

But for those asking for it to be harder, ask yourself, is it for the challenge, or is it for the rewards that give just you the leg up?

Well for one, there's no way that anyone who plays and spends a lot should have been stuck on the old version of 6.2.6 and they most certainly shouldn't be now bc it's basically a joke fight compared to what it was.

On the increased difficulty, just slapping on a bunch of attack isn't fun or interesting. It's the main thing that was wrong with 6.3 and 6.4. I'm not complaining that cav EQ is "too easy" even if I personally didn't find it overly challenging in the slightest. I'm just concerned at how many people want something that lots of people found incredibly easy to actually be toned down. I'm perfectly fine with it where it is for now. If they just slapped a ton of attack on the fights for a title, no I absolutely wouldn't do it bc that's boring but punishing for absolutely no payoff. I enjoy the direction they went with buffing certain attacker aspects that fell in line with common options that counter the defender nodes. I want to see more of that honestly.

As far as Book 2, some of it seems fun but I don't think it will be challenging for anyone with a flushed out roster. As that seems to be the direction the majority wants story content to go, so be it. I definitely don't want them to start chopping away at the EQ already though.

I've spent a considerable amount on this game. I'm going to have a leg up regardless of what content rewards are. That's hardly my concern

Moosetiptronic

You're in the top 100 for AQ or so? Even if the top 300, therein lies the problem. That's 9000 players, 3000 if the top 100.

We run map 4 in all 3 and get in the top 4,400. That's the top 130,000 players. We have an average prestige of 8.8k and average rating of over 800k. We average spend of probably well over 100 a year. And around 20 out of that lot are cavalier. Because we take AQ easy, maybe we could be in the top 60,000...

Only 6 I think, have taken down the champion in 6.2.6.

Only 4 are likely have a serious crack at completing cavalier EQ let alone trying to 100% it.

The views on these forums on relative difficulty, it is my suggestion, are not representative of the skills of the paying and playing summoner base, if my alliance is anything to go by.

Perhaps I am wrong.

But if you want to be rewarded with more than just titles, so do others and unfortunately for your desire for challenging content, it appears that others need rewards that approaching what you expect, but to complete content that you could probably do with 4 stars.

That's the balancing act that kabam are dealing with.

GroundedWisdom

Shut up mega Karen, Act 6 was nerf because people complained it was too hard

I would counter this by saying I believe act 6 was nerfed because the majority of the player base wasn’t even bothering to play it
i know that a LOT of people were complaining about 6.2 champion boss which would be one of the reasons why he eventually got nerfed dont know about the damage reduction for other parts of act 6 tho
The complaints about 6.2.6 Champion were almost certainly not a primary reason for that fight being nerfed. Complaints about difficulty alone almost never cause the content to be changed. Those complaints have to be backed up by data or other analysis, or seen as a symptom of a larger problem.

Act 6 as a whole was almost certainly looked at as an extension of the complaints about difficulty scaling in Book 2's initial beta. I don't know to what degree I played a role here, but I was one of those people who directly connected Book 2's initial difficulty to Act 6 difficulty, and I (eventually) presented a case for both Book 2 and Act 6 having too steep of a difficulty curve when seen together. I *suspect* that the complaints about Book 2 were connected to Act 6 and the devs decided to review Act 6 as part of the larger effort to reexamine what direction Book 2 should be taking.

Basically, once they decided to completely re-envision Book 2, they were almost forced to reexamine Act 6. Because it would be nonsensical for Act 6 to be the prerequisite for Book 2, and have Book 2's difficult be completely disconnected from Act 6.
Issue now is, content is now looking to be easier than Act 6 pre nerf, so all those who made it through Act 6 pre nerf will cruise through B2.

I agree it needed to be lowered the step up was huge because of the time scale it took to release Cavalier. They need to release B2C1 and B2C2 reasonably fast in order to raise the difficulty to where Act 6 was previously. Just hope they manage player growth vs content. With the current rewards we will have a lot of R3 6*s in content which has been re-envisioned for R5 5* R1 6*s

Not specifically. It's geared towards being scaled in a way that increases the challenge but isn't tuned specifically towards challenging the highest demographic. As DNA eluded to, it wasn't just the requests alone that earmarked the need. It was the results of mapping the trajectory, which he went into in detail previously. With that goal in mind, the content was progressing exponentially beyond what people can grow into.
I wasn't in the Beta for the first iteration, but it's well documented, and from what I'm seeing in this Beta, they're very much on point to their goals. The focus is more on creativity and less about limiting. While that's the case, I certainly wouldn't call it either too easy or too hard. More so appropriate to what it is. There's a kind of mass hysteria that comes where people think they're going to neuter it to the ground, but I can assure you they're still appropriating it to the level of challenge it's supposed to be. At least from what I've seen thus far. The point is to push people but not to the point that previous and future progress isn't in line.

TheTalents

Let me state that I'm not talking about anybody specifically and not Worknprogress.

But when most people say they want harder content what they really mean is that they need "get gud" content to boast about. If Kabam makes content that basically will become relatively easy by just ranking up champions and there's no hardcore skill/pay wall (abyss is a pay wall whether you pay with time or money) like the Champion 6.2.6 used to be then that takes away from their fun. You can always see it coming because they are flooded on the forums whenever someone has the slightest criticism about game design. We can say more rewards but it turns into you just want things easy which fits the narrative.

You're in the top 100 for AQ or so? Even if the top 300, therein lies the problem. That's 9000 players, 3000 if the top 100.

We run map 4 in all 3 and get in the top 4,400. That's the top 130,000 players. We have an average prestige of 8.8k and average rating of over 800k. We average spend of probably well over 100 a year. And around 20 out of that lot are cavalier. Because we take AQ easy, maybe we could be in the top 60,000...

Only 6 I think, have taken down the champion in 6.2.6.

Only 4 are likely have a serious crack at completing cavalier EQ let alone trying to 100% it.

The views on these forums on relative difficulty, it is my suggestion, are not representative of the skills of the paying and playing summoner base, if my alliance is anything to go by.

Perhaps I am wrong.

But if you want to be rewarded with more than just titles, so do others and unfortunately for your desire for challenging content, it appears that others need rewards that approaching what you expect, but to complete content that you could probably do with 4 stars.

That's the balancing act that kabam are dealing with.

Top 20 AQ and usually top 5 or so in AW.

I'm not saying this as an insult or trying to be rude but I would think active players around the 800k rating mark and hovering around 9k prestige should be able to get through the current version of 6.2 while maybe not easily but certainly reasonably. The Sinister fight in 6.2.2 would be far more of a roadblock to anyone currently than 6.2.6 I think.

I'm fully aware there are player types all over the spectrum. All game content can't be designed for the absolute bottom of each tier of player though. If the only people challenged are the ones at the very bottom, there's really no incentive to strive for the top. If story content is going to have its difficulty significantly reduced as that's permanent content all players have to get through at some point, what's the problem with monthly content being out of reach for some? There were plenty of Master EQs before Uncollected was a thing that I never finished. I just did what I could within reason and left the rest. At some point you get to either a skill or roster level that you end up finishing it. The idea that just bc someone has a title that gives them access to something that they all should be able to do it, is terribly flawed.

I don't want to redo the original 6.3 every month but I don't want to feel like I'm back in Act 5 either. They either need to figure out a way to give players at the top stuff to do more than every 3 or so years. Players lower down the ladder have plenty to do, like you said most of you haven't even done 6.2 yet. There's plenty to work on through the month. What are people with everything done already supposed to do if they cut the EQ down to a level that literally anyone can breeze through it?

The cavalier title as a whole is a joke at this point. There's such a divide between the top and the bottom of the group that I can't even believe that they're being grouped together. I'm not blaming those other players, that's the developers problem and fault. I'm just concerned that there's so much backlash to anything that's even moderately interesting for high tier players that the game is going to get to a point where there's absolutely zero reason to be one.

Polygon

Dont feed these end game players by replying/bumping this thread guys. They spend like crazy/have super stacked rosters including multiple r3s and want everything to be harder for those that don’t spend/are stacked. News flash, not everyone that completed act 6 is end game. If you want a challenge do content with champs like Rhino/Abomination. As if abyss wasn’t enough. Im tired of seeing these people spam forums with threads about content being too easy. Make a new account , use different champions, use lower rarity champions, just stop trying to make it worse for the rest of us

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TheTalents

You're in the top 100 for AQ or so? Even if the top 300, therein lies the problem. That's 9000 players, 3000 if the top 100.

We run map 4 in all 3 and get in the top 4,400. That's the top 130,000 players. We have an average prestige of 8.8k and average rating of over 800k. We average spend of probably well over 100 a year. And around 20 out of that lot are cavalier. Because we take AQ easy, maybe we could be in the top 60,000...

Only 6 I think, have taken down the champion in 6.2.6.

Only 4 are likely have a serious crack at completing cavalier EQ let alone trying to 100% it.

The views on these forums on relative difficulty, it is my suggestion, are not representative of the skills of the paying and playing summoner base, if my alliance is anything to go by.

Perhaps I am wrong.

But if you want to be rewarded with more than just titles, so do others and unfortunately for your desire for challenging content, it appears that others need rewards that approaching what you expect, but to complete content that you could probably do with 4 stars.

That's the balancing act that kabam are dealing with.
Top 20 AQ and usually top 5 or so in AW.

I'm not saying this as an insult or trying to be rude but I would think active players around the 800k rating mark and hovering around 9k prestige should be able to get through the current version of 6.2 while maybe not easily but certainly reasonably. The Sinister fight in 6.2.2 would be far more of a roadblock to anyone currently than 6.2.6 I think.

I'm fully aware there are player types all over the spectrum. All game content can't be designed for the absolute bottom of each tier of player though. If the only people challenged are the ones at the very bottom, there's really no incentive to strive for the top. If story content is going to have its difficulty significantly reduced as that's permanent content all players have to get through at some point, what's the problem with monthly content being out of reach for some? There were plenty of Master EQs before Uncollected was a thing that I never finished. I just did what I could within reason and left the rest. At some point you get to either a skill or roster level that you end up finishing it. The idea that just bc someone has a title that gives them access to something that they all should be able to do it, is terribly flawed.

I don't want to redo the original 6.3 every month but I don't want to feel like I'm back in Act 5 either. They either need to figure out a way to give players at the top stuff to do more than every 3 or so years. Players lower down the ladder have plenty to do, like you said most of you haven't even done 6.2 yet. There's plenty to work on through the month. What are people with everything done already supposed to do if they cut the EQ down to a level that literally anyone can breeze through it?

The cavalier title as a whole is a joke at this point. There's such a divide between the top and the bottom of the group that I can't even believe that they're being grouped together. I'm not blaming those other players, that's the developers problem and fault. I'm just concerned that there's so much backlash to anything that's even moderately interesting for high tier players that the game is going to get to a point where there's absolutely zero reason to be one.

Actually this is one of the best ideas I've seen about this topic. I think a true divide could solve this issue. I think the gap is far too wide between even myself and @Worknprogress.

Maybe a hero rating cutoff can get you access to exclusive content because the hero rating will truly divide the spenders and f2p. 2 million hero rating can be the cutoff and kabam can make content exclusive to you guys. It will make people like myself with 1.7 mill unhappy because we can do the content but bridging that gap properly would probably cease most of the complaints and force guys like myself who could have a 2 mill rating to spend more if we want the access. So kabam will make even more money all the while keeping the top 1% who want to do cavalier run with 4 stars happy. Not saying that should be the challenge but something similar which shows skill. Give you guys a 10% t5cc selector as a reward which is a huge reward to miss out on but not game breaking.

Tatteshwar

Why hasn't this thread but pulled down yet lol ? What clownery

DNA3000

The cavalier title as a whole is a joke at this point. There's such a divide between the top and the bottom of the group that I can't even believe that they're being grouped together. I'm not blaming those other players, that's the developers problem and fault. I'm just concerned that there's so much backlash to anything that's even moderately interesting for high tier players that the game is going to get to a point where there's absolutely zero reason to be one.

They aren't being grouped together, at least not in the way you're implying. It is a simple truth not everyone accepts, but if you're sufficiently faster than everyone else, then one of two things must happen. Either you get hard capped somewhere and your progress literally comes to a dead stop until enough people catch up, or you're soft capped and are allowed to advance much higher than everyone else but the content available for you to take in will get thinner and thinner.

Cavalier difficulty is not explicitly targeted at players of Cavalier title or everyone higher. It can't be. But that's not Kabam's "fault" in the sense that they could do anything about it. Had Cavalier difficulty come out say a year ago, we wouldn't be in a better position now we'd be in a worse one, because every Cav player today who has pegged the progress ladder would be even higher today than they are now. The range of players at or above Cavalier would be even wider, and the game can't make half the progress titles be tiny slices of all the post 6.1 players. If you're one of the fastest progressing players, then frankly the normal progress ladder isn't ever going to matter to you. The game is never going to make a ladder whose steps you can use, when you keep free climbing the sides of the walls.

There is a place for super high difficulty, and it is in the optional content outside the prime progression path. Things like the Variants, say, or the highest difficulty of some of the special side quests; boss rushes and things of that nature. And the rare Abyss. As you say, there has to be something there, and if you're someone like me who believes the progressional content (i.e. the Story content) must be targeted at average progressing players, and the monthly main EQ content must be targeted at lifting people between progression steps, then you also have to shut the heck up when it comes to the optional content in the game. And that's something I try to do, and something I try to remind people. We can't simultaneously complain about the progressional content being "too hard" and also all of the optional content also being too hard. That leaves nothing for the higher progress or stronger game players.

Just like the F2P players and the spenders need each other in this game, even though they often forget this, the high, medium, and low progression speed players also need each other to fill out the game. There has to be something for everyone, and that means you not only have to fight for what you want, you have to let other people get what they want as well. Or else eventually there's no game.

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Just wait and play book 2 when it comes out. Its the harder content and you still can only use the same champs you had for act 6. 6* R3 is still the highest so it will be harder. They just keep making harder and harder content while not being able to get your champs any stronger.
I'm playing the book 2 beta now and well let's just say if it releases as is, I'll be done with Ch1 in a day to 3 days at absolute most.

Same, but I dont have any R3 6*. Are you doing it without boosts and 5*s? Its harder than act 6. If I had 6* R3 it would be about the same but thats how the progression goes. If you want it to just be super hard dont use beyond god tier champs. Try someone new for fun.

Then let them leave who cares. They have the roster to make it easy if you make all content to hard for the lower players then they will leave and that's worse than the ones that find it to easy leaving

True but the people that find it easy are the spenders for the most part. That's why its easy. Best champs and max ranked and units lol. If they leave its worst actually. that's what sucks, the balance. I wish the prices where fair enough to justify spending some money.

It's actually really refreshing that they are making the paths harder in creative ways and creating a challenge without just adding just a bunch of power gain to the defenders and having to just bait the whole fight after every combo and making it just brag on. Its harder and much more fun than like Variant 1 and some other variant paths they did this on.

Just wait and play book 2 when it comes out. Its the harder content and you still can only use the same champs you had for act 6. 6* R3 is still the highest so it will be harder. They just keep making harder and harder content while not being able to get your champs any stronger.
I'm playing the book 2 beta now and well let's just say if it releases as is, I'll be done with Ch1 in a day to 3 days at absolute most.
Same, but I dont have any R3 6*. Are you doing it without boosts and 5*s? Its harder than act 6. If I had 6* R3 it would be about the same but thats how the progression goes. If you want it to just be super hard dont use beyond god tier champs. Try someone new for fun.

Definitely haven't been boosting. Teams have been mixes of 5/6*s so far. I don't think it's even close to out of reach for 5/65s. R3s certainly won't be necessary for it in its current iteration

Colinwhitworth69

Act 7 beta 1: "Waahhh, too hard!"

Act 7 final release: "Waahhh, too easy!"

Kabam devs: smh.

Iryse

So... are you leaving ??

We will miss you

Goodbye..

Lyingninja

Woah woah ...who is leaving for giving out easy content

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