Black widow claire voyant vs Sorceror Supreme poll

Please feel free to explain why

Comments

For me, it's Claire, and I have both duped. I find it better to be able to control Claire's modes then dealing with Sorceress' timer modes. That makes her easier to use in so many situations.

At first I didn't like Sorceress, but the more I use her, she's not bad. Just for me, Claire is better.

Joker1976

Good argument for both depending on mastery setup I do believe...that being said the fact that there’s differing opinions only means they are both excellent and rank up worthy,..and they’re both better then king Groot.

Joker1976

Or if I actually chose the right class lol,...er,..let’s then say UC .

Talharajpoot

Both are good because both have their utility

avenge_123

There's soo much to say....

Strengths

Immunities
Claire’s ability to switch her active immunity makes her extremely valuable against many Opponents and nodes. This also allows her to synergize with the Double Edge and Liquid Courage Masteries very well, since she can have both of them purified within a single combo.

Fighting Opponents Who are Immune

While playing as Claire, it’s very valuable to play against an Opponent who is immune to her Debuffs because it allows her to gain Clairvoyance charges and power at an extremely rapid rate. This also works very well in matchups on Stun immune nodes, since each Parry will also give her a charge and power!

Power Control and Sustainability

Claire’s ability to Power Steal granted through the Curse of Plague allows her to keep the Opponent’s power under control for most of any given fight, additionally switching back to Curse of Blood allows her to heal back any chip damage she might have taken during the fight!
Weaknesses

Clairvoyance Charge – Passive

Claire starts with 3 charges. Each time she or her Opponent are immune to any effect, or an immunity Purifies a pre-existing effect, she gains 1 charge and 4% of her max Power. Charges stack up to 20.
After landing or receiving a Light or Medium attack and the Opponent has 1 or more Buffs, a charge is consumed and 1 Buff is Nullified.

Curse of the Black Widow

Claire has 3 types of curses, each providing her with a different immunity, however, only 1 curse can be active at a time.
By default the Curse of Blood is active. Landing a fourth Light Attack casts the next curse in the following order:
Curse of Blood: Bleed immunity.
Curse of Plague: Poison immunity.
Curse of Hellfire: Incinerate immunity.

Signature Ability – Death Immunity
While Death Touch is Active

When receiving damage that would knock her out, Death Touch is consumed instead and Claire gains a Death Immunity Buff, preventing death and healing 18.83% of her max health over 4 seconds.

Burst Damage- while curse of hellfire is active,and BWCV throws SP2...it deals burst damge....

Sp1-nothing special

SP2-according to curse(life steal,burst dmg,power control)

SP3-Activates Death touch

avenge_123

when u need high dmg..switch to hellfire....when u are low on health...switch to blood....when fighting power gain champs or need power gain...switch to plague

avenge_123

Don't use her against power sting champs...as she relies on SPs

spiderknight616

Sp1-nothing special

Nothing special, true but it does good damage.

Uvogin

If you already have doom, then sorcerer supreme but if you don't then BWCV. Sorcerer supreme has some good utility of regen on block and slow but as a mystic she's lacking in power control and buff control, so unless you have someone else to cover that BWCV over sorcerer supreme

Vendemiaire

Nullify

Claire Voyant (3/5)
You get 3 clairevoyance charges that will nullify a buff on each hit time you hit an opponent or otherwise.
Additional charges everytime you hit an immune opponent with her current curse or if a buff failed to activate on your opponent once a Buff Immunity is applied through her SP2.
Pros: You get 3 instant nullifies at the start of the fight. Good for the likes of Annihilus, etc. that activates a buff immediately. If the opponent is immune to any of her curses, she can have access to a heavier damage with a heft amount of nullifies.
Cons: Difficulty to maintain the charges if the opponent isn't immune to any of the curses. The Buff Immunity is also not that reliable unless the opponent procs a buff every now and then.

Socerer Supreme (5/5)
Activates Nullification Area after an SP1. Nullifies 1 buff if the opponent is in proximity every 0.5 seconds.
Pros: This is the better nullify, if not the best in the entire game. Pair this with her passive power gain and mystic dispersion and you can rotate spamming SP1 with an occassional SP2 like there's no tomorrow. She also activates a respective rune each time an SP1 is used. (Armor Break, Regenerate on Block, or Slow).
Cons: You need to build up to an SP1. It is not difficult with the passive power gain. You can also bring Storm Pyramid X to have one power bar at the start of the fight.

Damage

Claire Voyant (5/5 with suicides; 3/5 without)
Sorcerer Supreme (Not recommended with suicides; 4/5 without)

Utility

Claire Voyant
Lifesteal (Curse of Blood) (5/5) - Very reliable lifesteal.
Power Control (Curse of Poison) (3/5)
Cheat Death (3/5) - Awesome utility but not always at hand that is easy to pull.

Sorcerer Supreme
Gain a rune for each special attack and a permanent rune for the first SP3 of the respective blessing.
Armor Break (4/5)
Regeneration on Block (5/5) - 70% Regen n block plus additional 15% if you have the Recovery mastery on.
Slow (5/5) - Easy to access slow and reliable on unstoppable heavy matches
Power Control (2/5)

Claire Voyant with suicides can clear faster with her higher damage output and can be sustained throughout the whole quest but Sorcerer Supreme can control fight better to her advantage against more difficult to deal with nodes.

spiderknight616

For me, Claire easy. Don't get me wrong, Sorc Supreme is great too. She's on her way to becoming my next R4. But Claire is much easier to use. Great burst damage on SP2, regen if you mess up and power steal for those times the opponent doesn't want to throw an SP2 (also for Hyperion). Plus, if the opponent has immunity, one SP3 at max charges and 4/55 will do almost 28k damage, which is enough to seal the deal in a lot of cases.

SS has great utility too but requires slightly greater expertise to use. She's amazing too, though I haven't played her enough to give a good rundown of her abilities

Normax_X

She nullifies, has triple immunity, suicide friendly, healing, big damage. Anything I missed?
Thing is she can only have 1 immunity at a time which is a huge drawback.

i dont see any fights where u need all 3 at the same time, biohazard sure but just dont hit their block like any other bleed immune option, not a "huge drawback". been using her for months never felt like i wanted all 3 immunities at the same time

Normax_X

So I like to look into 2 different aspects of a champ when I figure out which is the overall better champ. These two are: In Class Comparison and Overall Viability.

In Class Comparison: Taking a look at SorSupreme we can see that she has a combination of utility that we see in the class overall. She, first, has a nullification field that acts similar to Doom’s aura of hazareth. Additionally, she has access to slow in order to completely shutdown unstoppable even if you are directly nullifying which is pretty unique to the mystic class overall. She has easy access to armor break which is quite valuable in multiple scenarios and for overall damage output. Her regen on block and passive regen basically make her block into a stronger one than Doom and then her passive heal allows her to basically just regen any sort of chip damage left over. She also can be reliable in certain power control scenarios, though that’s not what she was made for. Her in class weaknesses are basically no immunities, lack of power control (when compared to the top power controllers in class), etc

BWCV has quite a bit of utility herself. Her most redeeming feature being the ability to shrug off suicides and heal back recoil damage using her L2. She has very very good regen that can allow you to make a few mistakes and still regen to full. She also has a burst phase for damage on her Sp2 that can amp up her damage quite a bit. Her other sp2 utility is power control which isn’t super good power control but it’s alright as well as buff immunity which makes her opponents unable to gain buffs. Her Sp3 also allows her to gain an attack boost only during the Sp3 based her charges, death touch which improves her curse potencies, and (when duped) very very niche death immunity. Her in class weaknesses is that for her to get her nullify she requires the opponent to be immune to one of her debuffs. She also doesn’t have very many ways to counter unstoppable making her lackluster in that regard. Along with all of that, without suicides her damage compared to many other in-class champs like Doom, SorSupreme, Longshot, SymSupreme, Mojo, etc is horrendous.

Overall Viability: This is really where I believe SorSupreme shines and Claire fails. Claire’s main niche is her great regen, immunities and her buff immunity (sometimes). Her power steal is about as good as SorSupreme’s so they tie it up there. While Claire tries to do most others things well she completely fails. Her damage isn’t even comparable to SorSupreme’s or even one of the best regen champs in the game: Omega Red.

Claire’s Strengths: She has one of the most potent healing abilities in the game, allowing her to go from around 50% to 100% when she has good crit RNG. This regen is a bit better than Omega’s who, with 30 spores, can regen 30-40% of his max health. She also has amazing buff control and power gain when against a champion immune to her debuffs as well as a large Sp3 she can fire off. Her Sp3 also gets her the next strength she has, death immunity which keeps her from dying and heals her. She’s also an overall simple champion to use with good animations.

Claire’s Weaknesses: Oh my, where to begin. She essentially requires suicides in order to do any sort of damage as well as a lack of any real mystic based utility to make up for it. Her power and buff control are not strong at all, her buff control only being good if the target is immune to her debuffs or she has just used a sp2 to get the buff immunity debuff. She has no real utility over many champions used in endgame. If I want survivability I use Ghost or Quake, if I want power control I use Doom or Magik (or even Quake, Ghost w/ Hood, or warlock!), if I want nullify for something I’ll use SymSupreme or Longshot (among the other choices like Doom or slow champions for unstoppable like Stealthy, Shulk or SorSupreme). She basically takes everything and does it worse besides immunities and regeneration.

SorSupreme Strengths: Utility access at any time. She can literally store bits and pieces of utility and activate them whenever. If you need an armor break she can store that, if you need regen on block and passive regen she can store that, if you need slow she can store that. She can also permanently earn a rune using a very powerful Sp3 which makes certain that she will have either armor break, slow, or regen on block the entire fight. Unlike Shulk or Spidergwen who rely on heavies for slow, SorSupreme can access it on special attacks and unlike stealthy she never has to run out of said slow. Her regen on block is invaluable as it can fully block 6.4 No Retreat Annihilus’ sp2, GM’s Sp2, 6.2.6 Champion’s specials, etc without a worry in the world. Her nullification aura is also very useful in the right circumstances. She also has great damage output without suicides using her Fury phase and armor break rune which enhances her damage quite a bit after some ramp up. Her Sp3 can also hit quite hard after you build up her runes. Her power gain mechanics are also very strong as they allow her to benefit from MD, gain power through hitting, and gain power passively without hitting or taking hits.

SorSupreme Weaknesses: Her damage without armor breaks is quite lackluster. In situations where it’s hard to use her heavy she can’t rotate her phases as quickly. Her slow, unlike basically every other slow champ, cannot he used to counter Rhino or any other science champ that happens to be unstoppable. She can handle being capped at a sp1 but it hinders her damage quite a bit as well, and can take away utility because she needs her Sp3 for a permanent rune. Her power control is also lackluster but not terrible. Still doesn’t compare to the top power control options.

Using this it would seem like, overall, SorSupreme is better. She has better utility, damage, and accessibility.

regarding the "no buff control".... she literally places buff immunity, and nullifies on every hit when she has charges, which u keep getting from the buff immunity and spending them when its done, by that time ur already at another sp2, she has one of the best buff control especially if ur running MD
and sure omega's regen is 30% but u have to have all 30 spores and throw a sp3 and lose all ur damage, where as her with suicides a full non crit sp2 is like 20% regen

Normax_X

claire's sig ability is probably one of the most underrated in the game, sure sometimes it can be tough to use it multiple times, but just this once per fight u literally die and regen back to 25%, 30% with recovery mastery, and in any immunity or buff heavy matchup u can spam it infinitely and never die whatsoever

DarkSoulDLX

Nice to see this thread pop back up!

SkyLord7000

Thought it was symbiote supreme 🤦‍♂️

Bugmat78

I have both at R5 - find myself using SS more than BWCV since i took off suicides. They both have their scenarios. One thing I discovered while exploring v5 is that Sorcerer supreme's nullify field shuts down tenacity - that was an amazing plus when fighting agent venom in ch 3.2

Kill_Grey

Sorry to "revive" this thread, but I'd like to add a few things in addition to what I've said earlier.

After turning off suicides, and playing around with both sorc and Claire in high level content. I have to say, I actually agree with @danielmath and @Worknprogress .

Sorcerer supreme > Claire when suicides is not in the equation, and it's not even funny. That regen on block is just like 10% of the things she can do, and I believe that it is currently the single most valuable defensive ability in-game. Sorcerer is extremely versatile, and her utility is nearly unmatched. She can combine nullification with Regen with evade and unstoppable counter with armor break all at the same time without having to lose out on anything. I agree that she has a seemingly complicated skill set when reading through her abilities for the first time, but she's actually incredibly easy to play.
Unlike a lot of other mystics that really shine with MD, she doesn't even need it. Her, Claire, Doom, Morningstar are among the mystics that benefit from MD, but not a necessity.

She's quite an unconventional mystic, but she's extremely extremely effective. Whenever I'm in incursions, and the attack values start to exceed the 15k range, I'd sub her in for her Regen on block.
If act 6 was still the way it was prenerf, she's be hands down a top 10 option for exploration. Even now, she's still a high-level option, but the block damage is much less than before either way.

But of course, Claire>sorcerer when suicides is at play, no one is debating that. But if I could change my vote, I would.

Rockypantherx

Why will this thread not die

Let it rest in peace. Please

SneakyWarrior

both are great

unknown

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unknown

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DarkSoulDLX

Sorry to "revive" this thread, but I'd like to add a few things in addition to what I've said earlier.

After turning off suicides, and playing around with both sorc and Claire in high level content. I have to say, I actually agree with @danielmath and @Worknprogress .

Sorcerer supreme > Claire when suicides is not in the equation, and it's not even funny. That regen on block is just like 10% of the things she can do, and I believe that it is currently the single most valuable defensive ability in-game. Sorcerer is extremely versatile, and her utility is nearly unmatched. She can combine nullification with Regen with evade and unstoppable counter with armor break all at the same time without having to lose out on anything. I agree that she has a seemingly complicated skill set when reading through her abilities for the first time, but she's actually incredibly easy to play.
Unlike a lot of other mystics that really shine with MD, she doesn't even need it. Her, Claire, Doom, Morningstar are among the mystics that benefit from MD, but not a necessity.

She's quite an unconventional mystic, but she's extremely extremely effective. Whenever I'm in incursions, and the attack values start to exceed the 15k range, I'd sub her in for her Regen on block.
If act 6 was still the way it was prenerf, she's be hands down a top 10 option for exploration. Even now, she's still a high-level option, but the block damage is much less than before either way.

But of course, Claire>sorcerer when suicides is at play, no one is debating that. But if I could change my vote, I would.

Her damage is primarily sourced from those armour break effects

Kill_Grey

Sorry to "revive" this thread, but I'd like to add a few things in addition to what I've said earlier.

After turning off suicides, and playing around with both sorc and Claire in high level content. I have to say, I actually agree with @danielmath and @Worknprogress .

Sorcerer supreme > Claire when suicides is not in the equation, and it's not even funny. That regen on block is just like 10% of the things she can do, and I believe that it is currently the single most valuable defensive ability in-game. Sorcerer is extremely versatile, and her utility is nearly unmatched. She can combine nullification with Regen with evade and unstoppable counter with armor break all at the same time without having to lose out on anything. I agree that she has a seemingly complicated skill set when reading through her abilities for the first time, but she's actually incredibly easy to play.
Unlike a lot of other mystics that really shine with MD, she doesn't even need it. Her, Claire, Doom, Morningstar are among the mystics that benefit from MD, but not a necessity.

She's quite an unconventional mystic, but she's extremely extremely effective. Whenever I'm in incursions, and the attack values start to exceed the 15k range, I'd sub her in for her Regen on block.
If act 6 was still the way it was prenerf, she's be hands down a top 10 option for exploration. Even now, she's still a high-level option, but the block damage is much less than before either way.

But of course, Claire>sorcerer when suicides is at play, no one is debating that. But if I could change my vote, I would.
Her damage is primarily sourced from those armour break effects

Yeah, I forgot to mention it 🤦🏾‍♂️