Root Feedback (New Mechanic)

Kerneas · November 2020

Look I still don't think the idea is COMPLETELY wrong, but I have couple things to say:

1) in some cases, it creates insanely hard situations (Thing for ex). Just don't put it with certain champions, really.

2) the AI should act better: it is almost impossible to bait out specials and it becomes super aggressive once root hits.

3) It messes timing of specials. Atm, AI can start hitting right after its sp. That shouldn't happen, there is by far not enough time for player character to recover from the sp

And a one side dote to that quest: remove combo party please. As it is rn, the quest design is punishing for every smallest mistake players make while being rooted.

P.S. I really hope someone reads this and Im not writing my reports foe nothing

Nerek · November 2020

Yes one can still attack while rooted but the parry and dodge don’t work, adding the constant crashing on multiple different devices makes the game hardly mediocre at best these days, it’s a shame really cause it used to be a great game, but until Kabam addresses and at least tries to fix the bugs that so many players has reported it’s nothing close to what it used to be.

Magrailothos · November 2020

So far the Root mechanic was okay with Specials (or most Specials), but much harder with Heavy attacks, especially if they were multi-hit attacks.

All Specials and Heavy attacks give you some kind of visual warning; but Root leads to me failing to Dex because (maybe I'm alone, here) I almost never actually use Dexterity to avoid Heavy attacks - I just dash back quickly (and don't proc a Precision buff).

So my inherent reaction to seeing a Heavy cue is to move sooner; since I'm just trying to create space. With Root in play, that leads to me failing to avoid the attack at all, and my champion getting hit in the face every time until I managed to un-learn my acquired skills, and delay the swipe-left. That's part of the game though, so not a real issue - just feedback, as requested.

Obviously there are certain multi-hit Heavy attacks (like the spinning kicks of Storm/Black Widow/Gamora) that are extremely hard to fully Dex; whereas a single uppercut like Juggernaut or Hulk's is fairly easy. Given that you can't reliably block Heavy attacks (unless for some bizarre reason you're using Mole Man), it's pretty unpleasant having this node on certain opponents.

Crcrcrc · November 2020

Magrailothos said:
So far the Root mechanic was okay with Specials (or most Specials), but much harder with Heavy attacks, especially if they were multi-hit attacks.

All Specials and Heavy attacks give you some kind of visual warning; but Root leads to me failing to Dex because (maybe I'm alone, here) I almost never actually use Dexterity to avoid Heavy attacks - I just dash back quickly (and don't proc a Precision buff).

So my inherent reaction to seeing a Heavy cue is to move sooner; since I'm just trying to create space. With Root in play, that leads to me failing to avoid the attack at all, and my champion getting hit in the face every time until I managed to un-learn my acquired skills, and delay the swipe-left. That's part of the game though, so not a real issue - just feedback, as requested.

Obviously there are certain multi-hit Heavy attacks (like the spinning kicks of Storm/Black Widow/Gamora) that are extremely hard to fully Dex; whereas a single uppercut like Juggernaut or Hulk's is fairly easy. Given that you can't reliably block Heavy attacks (unless for some bizarre reason you're using Mole Man), it's pretty unpleasant having this node on certain opponents.

Same here. Every time I see a heavy charge, I dash back as soon as I see them get ready and it throws me off.

Crcrcrc · November 2020

Mr_Holl87 said:

Iron_Patriot_is_lit said:

Moot4Life said:

Thicco_Mode said:

avenge_123 said:
the game is not only about skilled player,if a medium content player is having trouble,and a skilled player doesn't..it's not that the mechanic is good,the game is for everyone
so if one person in thee entire playerbase can't do it, it should be removed? once the going gets tough, the tough get going or whatever that dumb saying is. im not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but what I understand is that you don't think skill should be rewarded, or that skill shouldn't be necessary, or that if something requires skill, it shouldn't be in the game. alright cool. korg, gone. reversed controls, gone. half of the games specials, gone. who needs those when you can parry five hit combo to victory
is not just one person, thousands of people cant do this.
i think there should be a way to shut it down though because you can shut down korg shut down reversed controls (or practice it easily) and shut down hard to evade specials
People can’t do it because they’re not used to it. I’m not quite used to it yet either. And that’s okay.
Dude you completely DONT get it and continue to harass people you think are less than you.

Root in a game like this isn’t something you just “get used to” or “learn how to counter”. You get clued to the floor and are left completely open and vulnerable. The info on the node says you can still parry, dex, and attack but all of that is limited and effectively NERFED by the root itself! This mechanic literally yanks the controls out of the players hands and exposes them to all kinds of damage. Is BS mechanics and we all know it.

In some game genres like MMO’s and MOBA’s root is much more forgiving and less punishing. There’s a reason MCOC is the first fighting game (that I’m aware of) of its kind to introduce this type of mechanic. You don’t see Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Injustice, Soul Calibir or countless other similar games like it with this mechanic and there’s a reason for that! It doesn’t freaking belong in this genre! Get off your damn high horse. Nobody thinks you’re cool for giving Kabam this BJ.

You can learn it, like reverse controls. Dex works fine, and so does block, we just need a place to practice

Fred_Joeity · November 2020

Well after more testing I can say that attacks whiffing is also really inconsistent. For Doom, I can hit the first medium and first light, but miss everything else. For Doc Ock, I can only hit with both mediums, but not any light attacks. Also multi-hit heavies are kind of inconsistent. Even a few champs can’t even hit the first medium. Seems to me Root basically means you shouldn’t attack since you have a 50% chance to get smacked in the face unless you’ve tested with that specific champion.

Intensity108 · November 2020

Well, I hate it. It PERSONALLY has ruined the side quest for me.
When the root mechanic is ON, it's just a whole different game which isn't something I want to play.
Leave it in this side quest, BUT do NOT bring it back..

YOU'RE LITERALLY JUST STUCK IN PLACE. AND I CAN'T DEX EVERY SINGLE ATTACK THAT COMES AT ME.
ok, bye.

Toyota_2015 · November 2020

I think that the node where we get rooted when the opponent throws a special attack is a fun challenge, but the rest aren't necessarily fun to deal with.

Iron_Patriot_is_lit · November 2020

Mr_Holl87 said:

Iron_Patriot_is_lit said:

Moot4Life said:

Thicco_Mode said:

avenge_123 said:
the game is not only about skilled player,if a medium content player is having trouble,and a skilled player doesn't..it's not that the mechanic is good,the game is for everyone
so if one person in thee entire playerbase can't do it, it should be removed? once the going gets tough, the tough get going or whatever that dumb saying is. im not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but what I understand is that you don't think skill should be rewarded, or that skill shouldn't be necessary, or that if something requires skill, it shouldn't be in the game. alright cool. korg, gone. reversed controls, gone. half of the games specials, gone. who needs those when you can parry five hit combo to victory
is not just one person, thousands of people cant do this.
i think there should be a way to shut it down though because you can shut down korg shut down reversed controls (or practice it easily) and shut down hard to evade specials
People can’t do it because they’re not used to it. I’m not quite used to it yet either. And that’s okay.
Dude you completely DONT get it and continue to harass people you think are less than you.

Root in a game like this isn’t something you just “get used to” or “learn how to counter”. You get clued to the floor and are left completely open and vulnerable. The info on the node says you can still parry, dex, and attack but all of that is limited and effectively NERFED by the root itself! This mechanic literally yanks the controls out of the players hands and exposes them to all kinds of damage. Is BS mechanics and we all know it.

In some game genres like MMO’s and MOBA’s root is much more forgiving and less punishing. There’s a reason MCOC is the first fighting game (that I’m aware of) of its kind to introduce this type of mechanic. You don’t see Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Injustice, Soul Calibir or countless other similar games like it with this mechanic and there’s a reason for that! It doesn’t freaking belong in this genre! Get off your damn high horse. Nobody thinks you’re cool for giving Kabam this BJ.

Why so angry? Please explain how exactly I’m harassing people? Rooted is not leaving you completely open and vulnerable, that’s called stun. You can still dex, you can still parry. All it is, is that you’re getting held in one place while doing it. You’re the most uncivil and rowdy person I’ve debated in a while. You think this is a completely BS mechanic that prevents you from doing anything, to which I disagree and find to be incorrect. I don’t see why you’re attacking me like this over a disagreement. I see this as a fun and interesting twist, and you think otherwise. You don’t need to go all wild on me as if I ruined your life.

GOTG · November 2020

Toyota_2015 said:
I think that the node where we get rooted when the opponent throws a special attack is a fun challenge, but the rest aren't necessarily fun to deal with.

Root with special is easy because it is much like special delivery with 3 hits less, you count your hits to 11 and thow a special. In most case, no matter if your hits fails or suceedd, it pushes defenders back far enough.

About others I did not pay enough attention, but I think there is a way out of shi tty situation as well. I think if we get used to it we can deal with this kind of mechanic better.

TheVyrus · November 2020

I waited and gave it some time and different iterations to pass judgement.

As expected the first few days was very easy to deal with, then they stepped up a little and that was fine too. Then came today and I got a taste of a couple champs that had me concerned. Thing and Mr Fantastic were both concerns because of unblockable, & unstoppable in Thing's case, and the results were as expected. Timing dex and parry was not working and I had to eat several specials. I was forced to use a few revives and health potions.

This is just a taste of a few items with limited additional nodes. If Kabam puts this mechanic in place regularly, I have no doubt this will be used against players. Once stacked with more local and linked nodes this will be a drain on potions, boosts, and units.

I realize this is the intended outcome for a game company, but with players holding so little faith in them over the past few months I would shelf this for now at least. The recent instability and roadmap delays would be a better focus. If those issues are corrected than changing the play style of the game can be revisited

Getadamngrip99 · November 2020

@Kabam Miike how about before Kabam launches another lame ass mechanic into the lives of everyone you fix the real “ROOT” problems like the constant crashing that’s been happening for the last 6 weeks, or the lag that’s been happening for the last 2 years? How about before we make more problems and aggravation for the majority of players we fix the problems the majority already complain about? 🤦🏼‍♂️

MSRDLD · November 2020

Root against Thing is a pretty challenging fight. Annoyingly so. Feels cheap

avenge_123 · November 2020

Magrailothos said:
So far the Root mechanic was okay with Specials (or most Specials), but much harder with Heavy attacks, especially if they were multi-hit attacks.

All Specials and Heavy attacks give you some kind of visual warning; but Root leads to me failing to Dex because (maybe I'm alone, here) I almost never actually use Dexterity to avoid Heavy attacks - I just dash back quickly (and don't proc a Precision buff).

So my inherent reaction to seeing a Heavy cue is to move sooner; since I'm just trying to create space. With Root in play, that leads to me failing to avoid the attack at all, and my champion getting hit in the face every time until I managed to un-learn my acquired skills, and delay the swipe-left. That's part of the game though, so not a real issue - just feedback, as requested.

Obviously there are certain multi-hit Heavy attacks (like the spinning kicks of Storm/Black Widow/Gamora) that are extremely hard to fully Dex; whereas a single uppercut like Juggernaut or Hulk's is fairly easy. Given that you can't reliably block Heavy attacks (unless for some bizarre reason you're using Mole Man), it's pretty unpleasant having this node on certain opponents.

Right

Kappa2g · November 2020

The issue with root comes down to it feels very bad for the player. Yes the parts where dexing multi-hit heavy and specials are challenging and unique but the fact that you can only land one hit usually as your second hit won't have enough reach due to your first hit pushing back the opponent naturally feels very annoying and ruins the momentum and pacing of fights

FluffyPigMonster · November 2020

The mechanic is a good idea, however should have some limitations defensively. I would keep the timer very short.

Even 2-3 seconds of being “rooted” has significant issues associated with it, and it would be long enough to cause issues or the attacker can dex/etc.

Honestly, as long as there’s a timer it won’t be so bad. Encroaching stun is almost the same thing. I don’t see a community uproar on that node.

I believe it should also be incorporated offensively.

In a new champion or even a re-work.

Firing off a special “roots” the opponent after a successful hit or contact for x seconds. Groot is a perfect example. His SP1 goes in the ground. Add a root bonus for 1-2 seconds after the special is over and you’re talking a fun and major use of this mechanic. Something like that.

It can be a universal mechanic and not just a node. As long as there’s a timer and the penalty is not some ridiculous long time that allows Terrax and Omega to obliterate you with death spores or rock shield damage, it’s a progression and should be incorporated. Both as an offensive and defensive ability.

Gamer · November 2020

The problem with this mechanism is if you is rooted. And hit the opposite there move away and can counter u with is just bad design u can’t make us rooted without there’s is stuck to. But if that’s happened ther wil stil be abel to counter u so either way this mechanic won’t work for long term

LeNoirFaineant · November 2020

Mr_Holl87 said:

Iron_Patriot_is_lit said:

Moot4Life said:

Thicco_Mode said:

avenge_123 said:
the game is not only about skilled player,if a medium content player is having trouble,and a skilled player doesn't..it's not that the mechanic is good,the game is for everyone
so if one person in thee entire playerbase can't do it, it should be removed? once the going gets tough, the tough get going or whatever that dumb saying is. im not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but what I understand is that you don't think skill should be rewarded, or that skill shouldn't be necessary, or that if something requires skill, it shouldn't be in the game. alright cool. korg, gone. reversed controls, gone. half of the games specials, gone. who needs those when you can parry five hit combo to victory
is not just one person, thousands of people cant do this.
i think there should be a way to shut it down though because you can shut down korg shut down reversed controls (or practice it easily) and shut down hard to evade specials
People can’t do it because they’re not used to it. I’m not quite used to it yet either. And that’s okay.
Dude you completely DONT get it and continue to harass people you think are less than you.

Root in a game like this isn’t something you just “get used to” or “learn how to counter”. You get clued to the floor and are left completely open and vulnerable. The info on the node says you can still parry, dex, and attack but all of that is limited and effectively NERFED by the root itself! This mechanic literally yanks the controls out of the players hands and exposes them to all kinds of damage. Is BS mechanics and we all know it.

In some game genres like MMO’s and MOBA’s root is much more forgiving and less punishing. There’s a reason MCOC is the first fighting game (that I’m aware of) of its kind to introduce this type of mechanic. You don’t see Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Injustice, Soul Calibir or countless other similar games like it with this mechanic and there’s a reason for that! It doesn’t freaking belong in this genre! Get off your damn high horse. Nobody thinks you’re cool for giving Kabam this BJ.

You want him to get off his damn high horse while you sit on yours? Lmao. We obviously don't "all know it" because lots of people, myself included, are enjoying the quest. It's a good challenge and you can still dex, parry, and attack. I love how people who disagree are trolls, morons, trying to be cool, and doing unspeakable things for Kabam whereas you are the Voice of Reason lol. Somehow the people you insult are the ones harassing others. I'm far from the most skilled, far from the best roster, and have run the legendary level every day with no items used. Lost two champs to Thing. Should have only lost one but I screw up like everyone else. Good thing I had other champs.

LeNoirFaineant · November 2020

Gamer said:
The problem with this mechanism is if you is rooted. And hit the opposite there move away and can counter u with is just bad design u can’t make us rooted without there’s is stuck to. But if that’s happened ther wil stil be abel to counter u so either way this mechanic won’t work for long term

I don't see why it won't work. Some of the time it's been like encroaching stun and I'd rather be rooted than stunned. Some of the time it's been quite easy if you manage which specials you might have to dex rooted. It's a new mechanic and like anything else it will depend how it's implemented, but everything so far has been manageable.

LeNoirFaineant · November 2020

MSRDLD said:
Root against Thing is a pretty challenging fight. Annoyingly so. Feels cheap

I had a hard time with that fight. But one hard fight on a path is OK. I feel like I'd get better at it with practice.

KDoggg2017 · November 2020

magnus_xix said:
The thing I don't like about root is that you can't land more than 1 hit on the opponent once you've been rooted. Make it so that during the attackers light or medium attacks the defender also gets rooted.

1000000000%.
Root creates extra opportunities for the AI to attack while reducing player openings from 5 hit combos to 1 hit openings. (I suggest players are rewarded with a +200 Attack on that 1 hit).

Panchulon21 · November 2020

The idea of something new in the game is cool. I enjoy new things. Thanks kabam!

This is not something I expected. Not being able to move in certain matchups is pretty bad. Yesterday’s root was bad (fantastic 4 encroaching root).

If they are being aggressive that’s fine, but when they become passive like thing, it’s a nightmare because you have to evade specials, heavies for 4 seconds, and as everyone knows, Thing isn’t balanced, he is either super aggressive or super passive. There is no in between with him.

This isn’t an end game node and I hope we don’t see this anywhere bur side events. This would just be a glory/potion/unit grab anywhere else in the game.

Please reach out the community before launching things like this. As we have said before. Your developers are very out of loop when it comes to the game.

Pbb22 · November 2020

I think developer time would be much better spent fixing lingering issues that plague fights, like frame drops, completely missing parries, bugged mechanics, etc. Optimize the game more before introducing a mode of gameplay that’s wildly different from everything else in game. Basically, I do not trust that this mechanic will work well enough to justify its inclusion.

Root Feedback (New Mechanic)

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