Ghost any good without Antman or Wasp ??

Etjama · November 2020

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.

There are next to no situations where you have to hit the opponent and her playstyle is easily adjustable when it is needed. There are so, SO many more situations where not touching the opponent is needed. Quake rarely takes any debuffs because of 100% AAR and not making any contact, plus she also has 100% evade counter uptime.

Rockypantherx · November 2020

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:
Without synergies, she's still a top 2 champ. It is probably under that condition that I'd put Quake ahead of her, but with synergies, it's ghost at the top, imo.
Agree with the first part, hard disagree with the second. I think I'll just settle for an lol.
But it's true.
Quake is better than ghost and it’s not close. I have both. Although ghost is better than every other champ other than Quake and that isn’t close either
Well yeah, I have both too as rank 5 5*s, and it IS close between them, and quite a toss up at that.
No. It’s not. Come back and tell me that after Act 6 100%. Then I’ll take you seriously
You just had to bring out the **** card, didn't you? 😐
Well it’s the most difficult and roster stressing content in the game. I didn’t have Quake for act 6 100%. I had ghost all the way through it. And almost every path I had a moment where I went “I wish I had a 5* Quake”.
Yeah, I'm not sure why that word got censored honestly.

But nevertheless, I'll just combine them and run through the content, problem solved.
Oh absolutely. Between them they counter 95% of things. All you’re really missing is power control and nullify. Can even get around that in some scenarios
Yeah, I've got those fronts covered as well.

The only type of power control I feel I'm missing is doc ock type power control in environments where the opponent has unfair passive power gain.

Automatic lock is super good. Really Pun 99, Doc oc and CGR (with Pun99 synergy) have access to it. Doc oc obviously does it best

Kill_Grey · November 2020

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits

Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐

SpideyFunko · November 2020

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐

“Most situations”

lifecycle is a breeze, just throw in heavies while they’re stunned. It’s super easy, barely an inconvenience.

Rockypantherx · November 2020

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐

Brute force I’ll give you. Lifecycle I thinks she can actually do, but don’t quote me on that. Regardless, there are many, many more nodes and abilities that trigger off of hit rather than non hit

Unio77 · November 2020

Definitely, this is ghost we are talking about.
I don't have ant Man or wasp above 4 stars so I've trained myself to play her without synegies.
The wasp synegy is more a QOL thing

Kill_Grey · November 2020

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:
Without synergies, she's still a top 2 champ. It is probably under that condition that I'd put Quake ahead of her, but with synergies, it's ghost at the top, imo.
Agree with the first part, hard disagree with the second. I think I'll just settle for an lol.
But it's true.
Quake is better than ghost and it’s not close. I have both. Although ghost is better than every other champ other than Quake and that isn’t close either
Well yeah, I have both too as rank 5 5*s, and it IS close between them, and quite a toss up at that.
No. It’s not. Come back and tell me that after Act 6 100%. Then I’ll take you seriously
You just had to bring out the **** card, didn't you? 😐
Well it’s the most difficult and roster stressing content in the game. I didn’t have Quake for act 6 100%. I had ghost all the way through it. And almost every path I had a moment where I went “I wish I had a 5* Quake”.
Yeah, I'm not sure why that word got censored honestly.

But nevertheless, I'll just combine them and run through the content, problem solved.
Oh absolutely. Between them they counter 95% of things. All you’re really missing is power control and nullify. Can even get around that in some scenarios
Yeah, I've got those fronts covered as well.

The only type of power control I feel I'm missing is doc ock type power control in environments where the opponent has unfair passive power gain.
Automatic lock is super good. Really Pun 99, Doc oc and CGR (with Pun99 synergy) have access to it. Doc oc obviously does it best

Well, P 99 doesn't counter passive power gain, lol. I'm not sure about CGR either. But with the way fights like improved power gain doctor strange plagues the hardest of content in the game, it's really shows how useful doc ock is in actuality. Under those sort of scenarios, you can't readily fill bars of power with Magik or doctor Doom. Variant 3 power gain path is a prime example.

Etjama · November 2020

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐

Let a couple heavies go and Quake laughs at Life Cycle. And are you choosing to ignore the countless amount of nodes where you benefit from not making contact and suffer from making contact?

Kill_Grey · November 2020

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐
Let a couple heavies go and Quake laughs at Life Cycle. And are you choosing to ignore the countless amount of nodes where you benefit from not making contact and suffer from making contact?

I'm not denying that they're nodes that punish contact as well, but I'm also saying that Kabam seems to find a way to balance that by creating nodes that function the opposite.

Rockypantherx · November 2020

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:
Without synergies, she's still a top 2 champ. It is probably under that condition that I'd put Quake ahead of her, but with synergies, it's ghost at the top, imo.
Agree with the first part, hard disagree with the second. I think I'll just settle for an lol.
But it's true.
Quake is better than ghost and it’s not close. I have both. Although ghost is better than every other champ other than Quake and that isn’t close either
Well yeah, I have both too as rank 5 5*s, and it IS close between them, and quite a toss up at that.
No. It’s not. Come back and tell me that after Act 6 100%. Then I’ll take you seriously
You just had to bring out the **** card, didn't you? 😐
Well it’s the most difficult and roster stressing content in the game. I didn’t have Quake for act 6 100%. I had ghost all the way through it. And almost every path I had a moment where I went “I wish I had a 5* Quake”.
Yeah, I'm not sure why that word got censored honestly.

But nevertheless, I'll just combine them and run through the content, problem solved.
Oh absolutely. Between them they counter 95% of things. All you’re really missing is power control and nullify. Can even get around that in some scenarios
Yeah, I've got those fronts covered as well.

The only type of power control I feel I'm missing is doc ock type power control in environments where the opponent has unfair passive power gain.
Automatic lock is super good. Really Pun 99, Doc oc and CGR (with Pun99 synergy) have access to it. Doc oc obviously does it best
Well, P 99 doesn't counter passive power gain, lol. I'm not sure about CGR either. But with the way fights like improved power gain doctor strange plagues the hardest of content in the game, it's really shows how useful doc ock is in actuality. Under those sort of scenarios, you can't readily fill bars of power with Magik or doctor Doom. Variant 3 power gain path is a prime example.

I meant through their sigs. They automatically lock the opponent for around 2-5 seconds if they hit 3 bars of power. Only automatic power manipulation outside of doc oc I think

Kill_Grey · November 2020

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:
Without synergies, she's still a top 2 champ. It is probably under that condition that I'd put Quake ahead of her, but with synergies, it's ghost at the top, imo.
Agree with the first part, hard disagree with the second. I think I'll just settle for an lol.
But it's true.
Quake is better than ghost and it’s not close. I have both. Although ghost is better than every other champ other than Quake and that isn’t close either
Well yeah, I have both too as rank 5 5*s, and it IS close between them, and quite a toss up at that.
No. It’s not. Come back and tell me that after Act 6 100%. Then I’ll take you seriously
You just had to bring out the **** card, didn't you? 😐
Well it’s the most difficult and roster stressing content in the game. I didn’t have Quake for act 6 100%. I had ghost all the way through it. And almost every path I had a moment where I went “I wish I had a 5* Quake”.
Yeah, I'm not sure why that word got censored honestly.

But nevertheless, I'll just combine them and run through the content, problem solved.
Oh absolutely. Between them they counter 95% of things. All you’re really missing is power control and nullify. Can even get around that in some scenarios
Yeah, I've got those fronts covered as well.

The only type of power control I feel I'm missing is doc ock type power control in environments where the opponent has unfair passive power gain.
Automatic lock is super good. Really Pun 99, Doc oc and CGR (with Pun99 synergy) have access to it. Doc oc obviously does it best
Well, P 99 doesn't counter passive power gain, lol. I'm not sure about CGR either. But with the way fights like improved power gain doctor strange plagues the hardest of content in the game, it's really shows how useful doc ock is in actuality. Under those sort of scenarios, you can't readily fill bars of power with Magik or doctor Doom. Variant 3 power gain path is a prime example.
I meant through their sigs. They automatically lock the opponent for around 2-5 seconds if they hit 3 bars of power. Only automatic power manipulation outside of doc oc I think

Oh right, I forgot about that lol. Problem is when it expires for any reason, and for the fact that the opponents actually have to go to a bar of power, lol.

Rockypantherx · November 2020

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:
Without synergies, she's still a top 2 champ. It is probably under that condition that I'd put Quake ahead of her, but with synergies, it's ghost at the top, imo.
Agree with the first part, hard disagree with the second. I think I'll just settle for an lol.
But it's true.
Quake is better than ghost and it’s not close. I have both. Although ghost is better than every other champ other than Quake and that isn’t close either
Well yeah, I have both too as rank 5 5*s, and it IS close between them, and quite a toss up at that.
No. It’s not. Come back and tell me that after Act 6 100%. Then I’ll take you seriously
You just had to bring out the **** card, didn't you? 😐
Well it’s the most difficult and roster stressing content in the game. I didn’t have Quake for act 6 100%. I had ghost all the way through it. And almost every path I had a moment where I went “I wish I had a 5* Quake”.
Yeah, I'm not sure why that word got censored honestly.

But nevertheless, I'll just combine them and run through the content, problem solved.
Oh absolutely. Between them they counter 95% of things. All you’re really missing is power control and nullify. Can even get around that in some scenarios
Yeah, I've got those fronts covered as well.

The only type of power control I feel I'm missing is doc ock type power control in environments where the opponent has unfair passive power gain.
Automatic lock is super good. Really Pun 99, Doc oc and CGR (with Pun99 synergy) have access to it. Doc oc obviously does it best
Well, P 99 doesn't counter passive power gain, lol. I'm not sure about CGR either. But with the way fights like improved power gain doctor strange plagues the hardest of content in the game, it's really shows how useful doc ock is in actuality. Under those sort of scenarios, you can't readily fill bars of power with Magik or doctor Doom. Variant 3 power gain path is a prime example.
I meant through their sigs. They automatically lock the opponent for around 2-5 seconds if they hit 3 bars of power. Only automatic power manipulation outside of doc oc I think
Oh right, I forgot about that lol. Problem is when it expires for any reason, and they actually have to go to a bar of power, lol.

Oh absolutely. Never said it was good, just that it exists. Doc oc has that covered, even if I’m not doc ocs biggest fan

Kill_Grey · November 2020

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:
Without synergies, she's still a top 2 champ. It is probably under that condition that I'd put Quake ahead of her, but with synergies, it's ghost at the top, imo.
Agree with the first part, hard disagree with the second. I think I'll just settle for an lol.
But it's true.
Quake is better than ghost and it’s not close. I have both. Although ghost is better than every other champ other than Quake and that isn’t close either
Well yeah, I have both too as rank 5 5*s, and it IS close between them, and quite a toss up at that.
No. It’s not. Come back and tell me that after Act 6 100%. Then I’ll take you seriously
You just had to bring out the **** card, didn't you? 😐
Well it’s the most difficult and roster stressing content in the game. I didn’t have Quake for act 6 100%. I had ghost all the way through it. And almost every path I had a moment where I went “I wish I had a 5* Quake”.
Yeah, I'm not sure why that word got censored honestly.

But nevertheless, I'll just combine them and run through the content, problem solved.
Oh absolutely. Between them they counter 95% of things. All you’re really missing is power control and nullify. Can even get around that in some scenarios
Yeah, I've got those fronts covered as well.

The only type of power control I feel I'm missing is doc ock type power control in environments where the opponent has unfair passive power gain.
Automatic lock is super good. Really Pun 99, Doc oc and CGR (with Pun99 synergy) have access to it. Doc oc obviously does it best
Well, P 99 doesn't counter passive power gain, lol. I'm not sure about CGR either. But with the way fights like improved power gain doctor strange plagues the hardest of content in the game, it's really shows how useful doc ock is in actuality. Under those sort of scenarios, you can't readily fill bars of power with Magik or doctor Doom. Variant 3 power gain path is a prime example.
I meant through their sigs. They automatically lock the opponent for around 2-5 seconds if they hit 3 bars of power. Only automatic power manipulation outside of doc oc I think
Oh right, I forgot about that lol. Problem is when it expires for any reason, and they actually have to go to a bar of power, lol.
Oh absolutely. Never said it was good, just that it exists. Doc oc has that covered, even if I’m not doc ocs biggest fan

Well, doc ock is still the absolute MVP for improved power gain paths especially for the ones that appear in variants. I really missed that piece of utility when I was Exploring the final quest of variant 5. Had to use my rank 3 5* Magik for the doctor strange, and it was a lucky oneshot because he actually threw his specials.

As for the mephisto and Terrax, God alone knows how people did those two without Claire.

Kill_Grey · November 2020

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐
Let a couple heavies go and Quake laughs at Life Cycle. And are you choosing to ignore the countless amount of nodes where you benefit from not making contact and suffer from making contact?
I'm not denying that they're nodes that punish contact as well, but I'm also saying that Kabam seems to find a way to balance that by creating nodes that function the opposite.
Champions>Nodes. Look at cosmic champion design. Armor Break is becoming way more common now. So is armor break immunity. Ghost completely crumbles under an armor break. True strike is way less common and quake has more reach. The only game changing synergy ghost has is the hood synergy, which prevents damage onky when phasing. Quake can also bypass a lot of that damage through AAR.

Okay so...since we're using class disadvantage as a point of comparison, you wanna overlook the amount of skill champs that automatically counter evade? Hit monkey, OG black widow, night thrasher, etc suddenly don't exist anymore?

Kill_Grey · November 2020

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐
Let a couple heavies go and Quake laughs at Life Cycle. And are you choosing to ignore the countless amount of nodes where you benefit from not making contact and suffer from making contact?
I'm not denying that they're nodes that punish contact as well, but I'm also saying that Kabam seems to find a way to balance that by creating nodes that function the opposite.
Champions>Nodes. Look at cosmic champion design. Armor Break is becoming way more common now. So is armor break immunity. Ghost completely crumbles under an armor break. True strike is way less common and quake has more reach. The only game changing synergy ghost has is the hood synergy, which prevents damage onky when phasing. Quake can also bypass a lot of that damage through AAR.
Okay so...since we're using class disadvantage as a point of comparison, you wanna overlook the amount of skill champs that automatically counter evade? Hit monkey, OG black widow, night thrasher, etc suddenly don't exist anymore?
Aarkus, Nova, CGR, Terrax, Surfer. What's the difference between these champs and the champs you listed? Well the champs I listed can actually be annoying to fight. Show me a difficult Night Thrasher. I'll give you Hit Monkey. Show me a difficult OG BW.

Well, how about YOU show me difficult versions of the champs you mentioned. Mind you that Aarkus also counters Quake, so that invalidates his essence in this argument.

JueVioleGrace · November 2020

A Ghost vs Quake thread in disguise I see.

Kill_Grey · November 2020

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐
Let a couple heavies go and Quake laughs at Life Cycle. And are you choosing to ignore the countless amount of nodes where you benefit from not making contact and suffer from making contact?
I'm not denying that they're nodes that punish contact as well, but I'm also saying that Kabam seems to find a way to balance that by creating nodes that function the opposite.
Champions>Nodes. Look at cosmic champion design. Armor Break is becoming way more common now. So is armor break immunity. Ghost completely crumbles under an armor break. True strike is way less common and quake has more reach. The only game changing synergy ghost has is the hood synergy, which prevents damage onky when phasing. Quake can also bypass a lot of that damage through AAR.
Okay so...since we're using class disadvantage as a point of comparison, you wanna overlook the amount of skill champs that automatically counter evade? Hit monkey, OG black widow, night thrasher, etc suddenly don't exist anymore?
Aarkus, Nova, CGR, Terrax, Surfer. What's the difference between these champs and the champs you listed? Well the champs I listed can actually be annoying to fight. Show me a difficult Night Thrasher. I'll give you Hit Monkey. Show me a difficult OG BW.
Well, how about YOU show me difficult versions of the champs you mentioned. Mind you that Aarkus also counters Quake, so that invalidates his essence in this argument.
Out the gate, you remember that nova in EQ? Buffed up, Powerful from afar. There will be plenty more novas in the future since he's relatively new. Terrax. Flow. Ghost a terrax on flow, lemme know how that goes. Surfer. Of the top of my head, that showdown surfer was a pain. You could ghost him only if you played like a GOD and if his AI wasn't insanely stupid. CGR. New champ. But can you ghost him? I don't believe you can.

You're telling me you Quaked a champ on buffed up? Wow, that's so crazy! I assume you also sacrificed 3 slots to bring Heimdall synergies to make her usable there. Good luck doing that in act 6 when you add in the factor of RNG (getting the synergy champs), and actually not having to waste team slots on champs that wouldn't otherwise help you on that particular path, among other things.

On another note, go Quake the black widow in labyrinth and tell me how it goes.

Iryse · November 2020

Unknown_Traveler said:
A Ghost vs Quake thread in disguise I see.

I have a quake too and i am nowhere near to her playing style, so I dont consider her to max out but ghost is okayish in my style so had to ask everyone. If you dont know quake, it diesnt matter even if shes better than ghost coz u cant play her. So, dont misinterpret my discussion.

Kill_Grey · November 2020

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐
Let a couple heavies go and Quake laughs at Life Cycle. And are you choosing to ignore the countless amount of nodes where you benefit from not making contact and suffer from making contact?
I'm not denying that they're nodes that punish contact as well, but I'm also saying that Kabam seems to find a way to balance that by creating nodes that function the opposite.
Champions>Nodes. Look at cosmic champion design. Armor Break is becoming way more common now. So is armor break immunity. Ghost completely crumbles under an armor break. True strike is way less common and quake has more reach. The only game changing synergy ghost has is the hood synergy, which prevents damage onky when phasing. Quake can also bypass a lot of that damage through AAR.
Okay so...since we're using class disadvantage as a point of comparison, you wanna overlook the amount of skill champs that automatically counter evade? Hit monkey, OG black widow, night thrasher, etc suddenly don't exist anymore?

Seems I forgot to mention agent venom.

Realm_Of_Rah · November 2020

I think we can all agree that the stuff Ghost and Quake can both do, Ghost does much better in a more efficient and entertaining manner.

runs

JueVioleGrace · November 2020

Iryse said:

Unknown_Traveler said:
A Ghost vs Quake thread in disguise I see.
I have a quake too and i am nowhere near to her playing style, so I dont consider her to max out but ghost is okayish in my style so had to ask everyone. If you dont know quake, it diesnt matter even if shes better than ghost coz u cant play her. So, dont misinterpret my discussion.

What? I wasn't even talking about you, not once did I mention Quake being better or not nor did I asked for your ability to either of the champions, I was simply pointing to the fact that this thread had turned into Ghost vs Quake. You can keep your half-baked insults to yourself because I can play both of them.

Will3808 · November 2020

Ghost doesn’t need antman or wasp. Wasp makes throwing specials easier and more consistent if she’s your main path clearer. You should only take antman on the team if you don’t need the spot at all.

Agent_X_zzz · November 2020

Quake is #1 best champ in game, but ghost is #2 with or without syn, hood is her best syn by far

Realm_Of_Rah · November 2020

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐
Let a couple heavies go and Quake laughs at Life Cycle. And are you choosing to ignore the countless amount of nodes where you benefit from not making contact and suffer from making contact?
I'm not denying that they're nodes that punish contact as well, but I'm also saying that Kabam seems to find a way to balance that by creating nodes that function the opposite.
Champions>Nodes. Look at cosmic champion design. Armor Break is becoming way more common now. So is armor break immunity. Ghost completely crumbles under an armor break. True strike is way less common and quake has more reach. The only game changing synergy ghost has is the hood synergy, which prevents damage onky when phasing. Quake can also bypass a lot of that damage through AAR.
Okay so...since we're using class disadvantage as a point of comparison, you wanna overlook the amount of skill champs that automatically counter evade? Hit monkey, OG black widow, night thrasher, etc suddenly don't exist anymore?
Aarkus, Nova, CGR, Terrax, Surfer. What's the difference between these champs and the champs you listed? Well the champs I listed can actually be annoying to fight. Show me a difficult Night Thrasher. I'll give you Hit Monkey. Show me a difficult OG BW.
Well, how about YOU show me difficult versions of the champs you mentioned. Mind you that Aarkus also counters Quake, so that invalidates his essence in this argument.
Out the gate, you remember that nova in EQ? Buffed up, Powerful from afar. There will be plenty more novas in the future since he's relatively new. Terrax. Flow. Ghost a terrax on flow, lemme know how that goes. Surfer. Of the top of my head, that showdown surfer was a pain. You could ghost him only if you played like a GOD and if his AI wasn't insanely stupid. CGR. New champ. But can you ghost him? I don't believe you can.
You're telling me you Quaked a champ on buffed up? Wow, that's so crazy! I assume you also sacrificed 3 slots to bring Heimdall synergies to make her usable there. Good luck doing that in act 6 when you add in the factor of RNG (getting the synergy champs), and actually not having to waste team slots on champs that wouldn't otherwise help you on that particular path, among other things.

On another note, go Quake the black widow in labyrinth and tell me how it goes.
GHOST THE ELECTRO IN LABYRINTH. Quake can downright solo entire lanes and quests with full synergies. Easily.

You're saying that like Ghost isn't a lane clearing champion and a more common option for LoL in general

Tiger360 · November 2020

Kill_Grey said:
Without synergies, she's still a top 2 champ. It is probably under that condition that I'd put Quake ahead of her, but with synergies, it's ghost at the top, imo.

Agreed on both points

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:
Without synergies, she's still a top 2 champ. It is probably under that condition that I'd put Quake ahead of her, but with synergies, it's ghost at the top, imo.
Agree with the first part, hard disagree with the second. I think I'll just settle for an lol.

Hey would you look at that, we can agree on 1 thing, but I hard disagree with your second point so it’s a lol from me too

Thicco_Mode · November 2020

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐

There are situations where ghost doesnt work either lol

Realm_Of_Rah · November 2020

Dr_Centino said:

Realm_Of_Rah said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐
Let a couple heavies go and Quake laughs at Life Cycle. And are you choosing to ignore the countless amount of nodes where you benefit from not making contact and suffer from making contact?
I'm not denying that they're nodes that punish contact as well, but I'm also saying that Kabam seems to find a way to balance that by creating nodes that function the opposite.
Champions>Nodes. Look at cosmic champion design. Armor Break is becoming way more common now. So is armor break immunity. Ghost completely crumbles under an armor break. True strike is way less common and quake has more reach. The only game changing synergy ghost has is the hood synergy, which prevents damage onky when phasing. Quake can also bypass a lot of that damage through AAR.
Okay so...since we're using class disadvantage as a point of comparison, you wanna overlook the amount of skill champs that automatically counter evade? Hit monkey, OG black widow, night thrasher, etc suddenly don't exist anymore?
Aarkus, Nova, CGR, Terrax, Surfer. What's the difference between these champs and the champs you listed? Well the champs I listed can actually be annoying to fight. Show me a difficult Night Thrasher. I'll give you Hit Monkey. Show me a difficult OG BW.
Well, how about YOU show me difficult versions of the champs you mentioned. Mind you that Aarkus also counters Quake, so that invalidates his essence in this argument.
Out the gate, you remember that nova in EQ? Buffed up, Powerful from afar. There will be plenty more novas in the future since he's relatively new. Terrax. Flow. Ghost a terrax on flow, lemme know how that goes. Surfer. Of the top of my head, that showdown surfer was a pain. You could ghost him only if you played like a GOD and if his AI wasn't insanely stupid. CGR. New champ. But can you ghost him? I don't believe you can.
You're telling me you Quaked a champ on buffed up? Wow, that's so crazy! I assume you also sacrificed 3 slots to bring Heimdall synergies to make her usable there. Good luck doing that in act 6 when you add in the factor of RNG (getting the synergy champs), and actually not having to waste team slots on champs that wouldn't otherwise help you on that particular path, among other things.

On another note, go Quake the black widow in labyrinth and tell me how it goes.
GHOST THE ELECTRO IN LABYRINTH. Quake can downright solo entire lanes and quests with full synergies. Easily.
You're saying that like Ghost isn't a lane clearing champion and a more common option for LoL in general
That's not what we were discussing. You can path clear with almost anyone. We're talking about problem fights.

Ghost doesn't counter problem fights???

Kill_Grey · November 2020

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Dr_Centino said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:
Ghost's abilites do not beat 100% AAR with almost 100% uptime and no contact with the opponent whatsoever. It just doesn't. That's fact.
Quake's abilities do not beat situations where you actually have to hit the opponent, coupled with an insanely easily adjustable playstyle with debuff shrug off and evade counter with 100% uptime. That's fact.
Except, you know, they do.

Most situations outside of the ‘aggression’ nodes it is beneficial to not hit the opponent as pretty much every defensive node and ability activates as a result of hitting the opponent

Quake shuts down a lot of those debuffs being placed in the first place. See Morningstar, Biohazard, freezer burn, etc, etc

Quake doesn’t give a **** about evade since she doesn’t hit the opponent. Refer to my earlier point about most defensive nodes and abilities triggering as a result of hits
Brute force? Lifecycle? Etc? 🧐
Let a couple heavies go and Quake laughs at Life Cycle. And are you choosing to ignore the countless amount of nodes where you benefit from not making contact and suffer from making contact?
I'm not denying that they're nodes that punish contact as well, but I'm also saying that Kabam seems to find a way to balance that by creating nodes that function the opposite.
Champions>Nodes. Look at cosmic champion design. Armor Break is becoming way more common now. So is armor break immunity. Ghost completely crumbles under an armor break. True strike is way less common and quake has more reach. The only game changing synergy ghost has is the hood synergy, which prevents damage onky when phasing. Quake can also bypass a lot of that damage through AAR.
Okay so...since we're using class disadvantage as a point of comparison, you wanna overlook the amount of skill champs that automatically counter evade? Hit monkey, OG black widow, night thrasher, etc suddenly don't exist anymore?
Aarkus, Nova, CGR, Terrax, Surfer. What's the difference between these champs and the champs you listed? Well the champs I listed can actually be annoying to fight. Show me a difficult Night Thrasher. I'll give you Hit Monkey. Show me a difficult OG BW.
Well, how about YOU show me difficult versions of the champs you mentioned. Mind you that Aarkus also counters Quake, so that invalidates his essence in this argument.
Out the gate, you remember that nova in EQ? Buffed up, Powerful from afar. There will be plenty more novas in the future since he's relatively new. Terrax. Flow. Ghost a terrax on flow, lemme know how that goes. Surfer. Of the top of my head, that showdown surfer was a pain. You could ghost him only if you played like a GOD and if his AI wasn't insanely stupid. CGR. New champ. But can you ghost him? I don't believe you can.
You're telling me you Quaked a champ on buffed up? Wow, that's so crazy! I assume you also sacrificed 3 slots to bring Heimdall synergies to make her usable there. Good luck doing that in act 6 when you add in the factor of RNG (getting the synergy champs), and actually not having to waste team slots on champs that wouldn't otherwise help you on that particular path, among other things.

On another note, go Quake the black widow in labyrinth and tell me how it goes.
GHOST THE ELECTRO IN LABYRINTH. Quake can downright solo entire lanes and quests with full synergies. Easily.

You wanna discuss labyrinth? I don't have time for such shenanigans. But if you wanna go that route, why don't we do a contest to see which one doesn't get ruined by the enrage timer? Let's see which one can handle Doctor strange, rhino, agent Venom, etc better.

And yes, ghost can Solo entire lanes as well. Ending with full health and doing it much faster and with as much, if not more efficiency.

Tiger360 · November 2020

Rockypantherx said:

Kill_Grey said:

Etjama said:

Kill_Grey said:
Without synergies, she's still a top 2 champ. It is probably under that condition that I'd put Quake ahead of her, but with synergies, it's ghost at the top, imo.
Agree with the first part, hard disagree with the second. I think I'll just settle for an lol.
But it's true.
Quake is better than ghost and it’s not close. I have both. Although ghost is better than every other champ other than Quake and that isn’t close either

Aright mate calm down saying their far apart is just false, if you can argue which is better then they aren’t far apart at all. Saying Thor rag vs quake is far apart, but ghost vs quake nah because it can be argued which is better than which and it doesn’t matter how much content you’ve done because your wallet doesn’t count as experience

Ghost any good without Antman or Wasp ??

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