Cyber weekend and holidays moving forwards

@Kabam Miike said

"Hey all,

Apologies for being quiet here, but we've already said that we're going to take this information forward to the team for the future.

If you'd like to offer more information on what you'd like to see in offers, or how you think they can be better tailored to Summoners in certain brackets or independent of them, we'd love to hear it, and there has been a lot in here that has already been passed on.

How would you like to see days like this play out? Should days like this even happen anymore? This is the kind of feedback that can be taken to the team."

And I would like for him to have some constructive feedback. I think that it would help to have a player offer review panel who get shown the deals (at least for big events like Cyber Weekend and July 4th), so that they can comment on whether they think the deals will be received well. I think that while days like this are fun for those who spend a crazy amount, they can also seem demoralising for your average Summoner, as they see others progressing more rapidly in one day than they have in 6-8 months. We need to strike a balance and in the future, I hope that Kabam will perhaps make the gifting event more about money spend and Cyber Weekend solely cache based offers. Or perhaps July 4th cash and Cyber Weekend cache or vice versa. I hope that this is constructive and I urge everyone to comment on their views as to what they hope to see moving forwards rather than personal attacks or comments on this years deal. That thread is dead and buried, lets leave the past in the past and work together for a better future.

Your hopeful Summoner

Comments

H3t3r

Since the main thread was closed which wasn't really that surprising I've opened this new one with the purpose to give Kabam ideas on how they could do better next time. I think it could be beneficial if Kabam ran the offers through ccp members first, but it would fall on the ccp members to think about all the offers not just the ones that are thronebreaker. Hopefully this doesn't get immediately closed but if it doesn't please keep this one on the track. The last discussion was to show our disappointment, this one is to help Kabam rectify it for the future.

unknown

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Shadowstrike

I don't trust them to really have an objective eye. They'd try to make everything free and we'd be stuck with ads out the wazoo to pay the difference.

magnus_xix

I would love to see a choice between 2 10k offers. One for sig stones and awakening gems and another for rank up resources. We've had offers like these in the past idk why they canned it this time round.

unknown

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OGAvenger

Don’t be afraid to go big. We see TONS of people hoard units and save money just for these specific times of year. There is nothing they offer that is going to break the game at any level of progression. Go big. Rake in the profits. Then go back to your normal offers the rest of the year.

They never had a problem with this in years past but it definitely seemed they were holding back this year and trying to limit F2P players with extremely disappointing unit offers and limiting Cav players altogether.

TheTalents

The unit offer has to be really good for Thronebreakers moving forward. A lot of f2p guys spent a ton of hours for the unit offer and was highly disappointed about how lackluster it was. I'm not saying they have to be as good as the cash offers but it needs to be game breaking for sure. At minimum they needed 50 generic sigs, and 25% t5cc selector, with one Nexus class crystal as well. 15k how ever you get it is a lot of units and Cyber weekend is the one day not to be stingy.

Kill_Grey

How does this thread work?

1_ShuNeu_1

Shouldn’t ever worsen “bonus” rewards for one
When it’s a real money offer it’s gonna be hard to find any middle ground - especially since 90$ Tb could get 3t5b and 3 6* nexus - and the cav Odin was really only good with the nexus and somewhat with the random t5c crystal. Other than that I don’t need the other stuff
Imo tb deals different from cav should of been the unit based secondary offers
Not the money based unit store ones

Tb if introduced - which there is argument for the need of a new bracket - should of been from act 6 completion since if I bought the misc t5c offers I could of bypassed any play requirement, which removes any skill or roster based development and is entirely money based.

Since I can buy cavs and offers and never play and still have a very developed account

If you just rehashed the July 4th offers most people would of been ok
But really y’all should of given a way to let cavs close to tb get the new title and bracket from the offers

The issue people seem to overwhelmingly have is that Kabam has been “shady” with their practices for years
There’s been controversy around the community for a long time and this just reinforced people’s beliefs about Kabam.

There are bugs upon bugs but never fixed.
And everything, always, is in favor of Kabam.

People find it hard to want to continue playing/ spending and having your community save up money and units for months to purchase offers - to then last minute be excluded due to a largely rng based issue, is gonna rub people the wrong way
Especially since Kabam is continuously on thin ice with the community.
I was prepared with 2-300 saved to get offers to then do abyss. But why should I continue the grind when it always seem when you get to the finish line the line moves further away.
For me there is no “next time” I’ve been having issue justifying spending 10$ for the sigil
Much less 100+ On unit deals.

Honestly idk what y’all could do because break a plate, apologize to the plate, is the plate fixed? No it ain’t

TyEdge

There should have been an explanation sometime between July 4 and now that the July 4 offers were extra sweet because TB players hadn’t been taken out of the Cav pool.

This isn’t me complaining. If you want to know how to improve, you have to acknowledge where failures occurred. Better communication about what the existence of TB would do for Cav players would have been a critical way to manage expectations.

By the same token, identify for players what qualifies as a staple/meta-relevant item versus a luxury item versus a winning-lottery-ticket item.

Based ONLY on the offers this weekend, t2a and 5-star shards are staples. AGs and sig stones are luxury items to be earned in tougher content/spent for. Apparently t5b and 6-star shards go here too. And anything like t5cc frags or 6-star stones are in the lotto category.

Taking this a step further, you could preview (without quantities) what to expect in offers in the early announcement. “Cavalier summoners can expect to receive unit offers to net them loads of t2a and 5-star shards, along with an awakening gem and lots of stones!”

Expectations set. Frustration/shock lessened.

AwesomoChaos

Cyber Monday & July 4 are obviously the big events of the year. The offers should always progress from the previous one. To get worse in value makes no sense.

Everyone loves having choice. July 4 was great in offering 5* focus vs 6* focus. Or you could have shards focus vs rank-up materials focus.

Unit deals shouldn't be irrelevant/laughable compared to cash deals.

I don't think they should do this but if they want bracket-based offers, maybe divide Proven, Uncollected, Cavalier, Elder's Bane, Cavalier+Elder's Bane, Act 6 Completion, Act 6 Exploration, Thronebreaker.

H3t3r

Since the main thread was closed which wasn't really that surprising I've opened this new one with the purpose to give Kabam ideas on how they could do better next time. I think it could be beneficial if Kabam ran the offers through ccp members first, but it would fall on the ccp members to think about all the offers not just the ones that are thronebreaker. Hopefully this doesn't get immediately closed but if it doesn't please keep this one on the track. The last discussion was to show our disappointment, this one is to help Kabam rectify it for the future.
Not the CCP but maybe respected members of the community both F2P and Whales alike

Yeah that works as well!

SilverState

My biggest criticism of the Cyber Weekend offers is that they were objectively worse for Cavalier players than the July 4th offers. If they were equal to them or just slightly better, I think the community response would have been less hostile.

I don’t understand why more t5cc wasn’t included in the offers. It doesn’t make any sense as a business decision. The previous thread is full of people who said they’d be willing to buy the offers if it were there, especially those on the cusp of Thronebreaker. I’m not so naive as to think they should hand out full t5cc selectors in the Odins, but 25% selectors in there would have probably gone a long way for most players.

On a business level, including more t5cc would have probably led to players spending on both the Cavalier AND Thronebreaker deals. So not only has Kabam lost out on money from people who refused to buy these deals, but they’ve also lost out on money from people who would’ve then bought those deals as well. That’s one reason why I was so surprised more t5cc wasn’t available.

As a gameplay decision, the low amount of t5cc for sale this weekend also makes little sense. I’ll accept that Kabam wants to use t5cc as a bottleneck for progression—it incentivizes players to pursue Act 6 completion (and exploration), as well as an Abyss completion run. So I don’t take issue with its inclusion for Thronebreaker.

Even then, including notable amounts of t5cc in the Cyber Weekend deals wouldn’t undermine that bottleneck. Players understand that this is a unique opportunity. That’s why there was so much backlash this weekend: If they miss out on something in these sales, they probably won’t get another chance for at least 6 months, but more likely 12 months. (And now nobody is going to assume they’ll get good amounts of t5cc on July 4th next year.) That’s enough of a wait to incentivize saving up or spending on an Abyss run in the mean time.

There’s still enough time to extend the offers, add more t5cc to them, and send it directly to players who already bought them. I hope Kabam acts accordingly.

ShoNuff29

@Kabam Miike Moving forward:

Within each tier have 2 offer choices for each cash & unit deal. Most cav players are pissed cuz the offers have them NOTHING to progress. Just a bunch of 5* resources. That’s great if you just got cav because you’re still building your roster. They have no need for t5cc right then. Even a 6* 1-2 gem may sit on the shelf because they probably have wack 6* champs still. They would’ve likely chosen the offers that were given. All the 5* shards and rank ups would’ve made sense for their rosters and progression where they need counters.

For progressing cav players, 6* 1-2 gems would made A LOT more sense than 5* 4-5 gems. And t5cc is a must. Taking something off an offer t5cc was included in cav Odins in July and suddenly gone in November. Makes no sense. Also, the class based nexus would’ve been FAR MORE useful for cav players trying to get to thronebreaker because they’re more likely in need of a 6* champ to take to r3.

Using myself as an example, I came into to the wknd with 40,500 of a t5 mystic. So only 10% away from being fully formed. I just KNEW I’d get it cyber, but was screwed by offers. Not only that, but I don’t have a great mystic champ to take to r3. The class nexus would’ve been great for me to have a chance at getting a mystic to match. I know there’s a ton of players in a similar position.

*sidenote: still think they should fix the situation for THIS cyber weekend. Better late than never exists for a reason. Players would love a fix a week from now instead of no fix ever. I’m just saying 🤷🏽‍♂️

GroundedWisdom

Personally, I'm not of the same mentality that the Offers should be more each time. I think the only thing I would add is more focus on rarity. The Sales for me are an opportunity to get what I don't normally have a great deal of access to. I also don't agree that T5CCs are something that needs to be available in great amounts. I could reasonably justify a 2% Crystal in the Peter Parker's Wallet, 2 in the next, 3 in the next, something along those lines. Perhaps more T5B Frags. (Cavalier Level)

Diablo0829

Personally, I'm not of the same mentality that the Offers should be more each time. I think the only thing I would add is more focus on rarity. The Sales for me are an opportunity to get what I don't normally have a great deal of access to. I also don't agree that T5CCs are something that needs to be available in great amounts. I could reasonably justify a 2% Crystal in the Peter Parker's Wallet, 2 in the next, 3 in the next, something along those lines. Perhaps more T5B Frags. (Cavalier Level)

This is a great idea if you want them to go out of business!

Come on...these are their two MOST PROFITABLE days of the year. They know what’s worked in the past and how it can go horribly wrong when they don’t step it up like this year.

TyEdge

Personally, I'm not of the same mentality that the Offers should be more each time. I think the only thing I would add is more focus on rarity. The Sales for me are an opportunity to get what I don't normally have a great deal of access to. I also don't agree that T5CCs are something that needs to be available in great amounts. I could reasonably justify a 2% Crystal in the Peter Parker's Wallet, 2 in the next, 3 in the next, something along those lines. Perhaps more T5B Frags. (Cavalier Level)

God help me, but you’re actually right about the first part. Offers kept improving for cavalier over time to adjust to the evolving meta - first t5b, then t5cc. 6-star shards becoming more plentiful. Now that Thronebreaker exists, there’s a logical endpoint to what cavaliers should access easily.

The problem is that Kabam did nothing to warn us that we hit that ceiling, then they were even harder the other direction and made the offers worse.

The other problem is that t5cc is still part of what should be accessible (not easily, but accessible nonetheless). I got my 10% from cavalier every month. I got my 10% from radiation. (I didn’t do either 4-star EQ but I did do the Souls one in between). $5000 units and $30 netting no t5b, t5cc, or maybe even 10 6-star stones...that doesn’t fit.

AwesomoChaos

If the offers don't progress each time, then they become increasingly irrelevant for a particular player. When you first become Cav, you might need a ton of t4b or t4c to grow your roster. A year later, those items are close to meaningless with many in crystals or overflow.

GroundedWisdom

Personally, I'm not of the same mentality that the Offers should be more each time. I think the only thing I would add is more focus on rarity. The Sales for me are an opportunity to get what I don't normally have a great deal of access to. I also don't agree that T5CCs are something that needs to be available in great amounts. I could reasonably justify a 2% Crystal in the Peter Parker's Wallet, 2 in the next, 3 in the next, something along those lines. Perhaps more T5B Frags. (Cavalier Level)
This is a great idea if you want them to go out of business!

Come on...these are their two MOST PROFITABLE days of the year. They know what’s worked in the past and how it can go horribly wrong when they don’t step it up like this year.

I doubt they're going out of business because a subset of people who wanted to hit TB this weekend didn't get to do so. The reality is it's not possible to offer more and more each time because those Resources have an effect overall. Regardless, I gave my feedback and I'm not looking for a debate on my opinion.

Silver_Saga

Just one simple rule : NEVER decrease the content of any offer compared to what was done in the previous one, for each bracket (UC, cav, TB, and so on). And I'll be happy

Capn_Dante

I would hate to see Cyber Monday and 4th of July deals go (as a thronebreaker, I bought them all) but I understand why a close to thronebreaker cavalier player would be unhappy with what was offered.

The difference between uncollected and cavalier players isn't as huge - newly uncollected players have solid access to 5 star champs and can easily progress to 6.1 and reach cavalier. However, one of the big pain points for getting to thronebreaker is forming that first t5cc and having a champ worth taking to rank 3. We had a lot of guys in my alliance push through the abyss in the past week, some with a 6 star in every class but one they would take to r3, just to obtain the t5cc in the class they had no one. They may have been close in other classes from working on act 6 and cav eq, but they would have had to spend more money they were comfortable with and even then it would have been a gamble. They were hoping to be able to pick up some in the cache bundles and had the units but there wasn't even a 10% T5CC frag crystal for them to gamble on.

Having two cache bundles for cavalier, one being more geared towards 5* champions and then having another one geared towards 6* champions (with obviously less than what is in the thronebreaker bundle) would help these players jump that last hurdle to becoming a thronebreaker.

Snurris

Mostt of my thoughts have already been said.
Do like on the 4th and give summoners two different setups to choose from.
On the 4th I was all over the shards because that’s what I needed then. Today I would be all over the rank ups because I need that more today.
In the cash offers, also provide the choice, like selectors and you would sell like crazy.
Everyone likes to have power over their own decisions.
I really love this game, it’s so well done. My really only negative opinion is that it’s very rng based

1_ShuNeu_1

Mostt of my thoughts have already been said.
Do like on the 4th and give summoners two different setups to choose from.
On the 4th I was all over the shards because that’s what I needed then. Today I would be all over the rank ups because I need that more today.
In the cash offers, also provide the choice, like selectors and you would sell like crazy.
Everyone likes to have power over their own decisions.
I really love this game, it’s so well done. My really only negative opinion is that it’s very rng based

Same I went for champs on the 4th and was gonna go rank up materials over the weekend because I have several 6* I want awaken or ranked to r3

10or_Strong

After seeing the insane rewards for the top 30 solo players in the upcoming gifting event, they should just go big for every tier of progression level on July 4th and Cyber Weekend in the future. I don't always agree with the various YouTubers' perspectives, but I think Seatin hit it right on the nose when he said that, after the upcoming Gifting Event rewards, Kabam really has no right to complain that big offers to the users upset the balance of the game; there is NO balance when the top 30 spenders for the Gifting Event get such broken rewards (T5 catalyst selector AND a 6* 2 - 3 rank up gem means 2 guaranteed R3s out of the one event; and one of them entirely of the player's choice!).

In light of that, they really should keep all the offers on an upward trajectory from event to event (July 4th to Cyber Weekend to July 4th). If that means that Thronebreaker needs to be a bit more outlandish in order for Cav to see comparable improvements, so be it. I still can't see offers being as broken as the Gifting Event rewards will be, and it's for a wider player base, which helps provide a bit more equity than just the top 30 in an event getting launched so much further ahead.

Just my 2 cents.

TheExit27

Not only should this thread be in "Suggestions", but I honestly don't believe that suggestions would be honored. The sketchy naive approach to the downgraded Cavalier offers is a big clue into me feeling this way.

I would allow choice (as others had previously mentioned) between fighter openings and fighter progression. I don't want to be accused of commenting without giving a suggestion at all.

A T5CC selector in the Cavalier offers wouldn't have necessarily made it super easy for any new Cavalier player to attain Thronebreaker rank before the weekend ended. And if any would've been able to because of the T5CC selector, so be it. They'd deserve it. Plus, it would've been extra spending towards Kabam if that player was willing. But far too many people got screwed from this weekend to just sweep it under the rug and talk about "next time". I personally was looking forward to a selector or two this past weekend, but now I feel that my efforts in this game are never enough. Again, this is all just a waste of time. My opinion doesn't really matter to Kabam. This is just a PR thing that companies do to save face. The only feed-back I expect to get are that of other players on this forum. Thanks for hearing me Summoners.

Texas_11

I think people keep forgetting that cavalier players had the benefit of sharing the title with players who were way beyond their scope abyss 100% etc. so you can’t compare those 4th of July deals because there wasn’t throne-breaker at the time.

They had to please the higher end players and current cav players which obviously made a particular party mad when the rewards were adjusted to fit that title.

My suggestion for Kabam is to stick with their guns , those complaining about throne breaker probably don’t need to be throne breaker and were not meant for this new transition.

They tuned act 6 down and made 6* shards and made T5cc available in game. It’s up to those who are cavalier to go for an abyss run or 100% act 6. Kabam has done their part.

If the argument is cav players need better deals then we have to ask the question . Which cav players? Those on the edge? If that’s the case they need to go to TB.

Then the second argument is the entry level cav players, why on the world would they need T5cc and 6* shards when they hardly have a roster to handle act 6? It doesn’t benefit them.

Colinwhitworth69

I think people keep forgetting that cavalier players had the benefit of sharing the title with players who were way beyond their scope abyss 100% etc. so you can’t compare those 4th of July deals because there wasn’t throne-breaker at the time.

They had to please the higher end players and current cav players which obviously made a particular party mad when the rewards were adjusted to fit that title.

My suggestion for Kabam is to stick with their guns , those complaining about throne breaker probably don’t need to be throne breaker and were not meant for this new transition.

They tuned act 6 down and made 6* shards and made T5cc available in game. It’s up to those who are cavalier to go for an abyss run or 100% act 6. Kabam has done their part.

If the argument is cav players need better deals then we have to ask the question . Which cav players? Those on the edge? If that’s the case they need to go to TB.

Then the second argument is the entry level cav players, why on the world would they need T5cc and 6* shards when they hardly have a roster to handle act 6? It doesn’t benefit them.

I do not care about being TB.

I merely wanted a comparable Cav deal on CW to the ones I bought on July 4. The price was the exact same, but the CW rewards were far less valuable. I was not expecting massive T5cc offers, but more than the crumbs we were thrown.

This isn't rocket science. The TB offers should have been better than what was offered to Cav players on July 4, for sure, but there is zero reason to make the Cav offers worse. Unless your goal is to make people mad, which IMO is a bad business strategy for a game maker.

In the end, this is fine with me, because I just won't spend money like I used to, and the feeling in my alliance is much the same. If Kabam wants me to spend, they'll present good offers. Simple as that.

Texas_11

I think people keep forgetting that cavalier players had the benefit of sharing the title with players who were way beyond their scope abyss 100% etc. so you can’t compare those 4th of July deals because there wasn’t throne-breaker at the time.

They had to please the higher end players and current cav players which obviously made a particular party mad when the rewards were adjusted to fit that title.

My suggestion for Kabam is to stick with their guns , those complaining about throne breaker probably don’t need to be throne breaker and were not meant for this new transition.

They tuned act 6 down and made 6* shards and made T5cc available in game. It’s up to those who are cavalier to go for an abyss run or 100% act 6. Kabam has done their part.

If the argument is cav players need better deals then we have to ask the question . Which cav players? Those on the edge? If that’s the case they need to go to TB.

Then the second argument is the entry level cav players, why on the world would they need T5cc and 6* shards when they hardly have a roster to handle act 6? It doesn’t benefit them.

I do not care about being TB.

I merely wanted a comparable Cav deal on CW to the ones I bought on July 4. The price was the exact same, but the CW rewards were far less valuable. I was not expecting massive T5cc offers, but more than the crumbs we were thrown.

This isn't rocket science. The TB offers should have been better than what was offered to Cav players on July 4, for sure, but there is zero reason to make the Cav offers worse. Unless your goal is to make people mad, which IMO is a bad business strategy for a game maker.

In the end, this is fine with me, because I just won't spend money like I used to, and the feeling in my alliance is much the same. If Kabam wants me to spend, they'll present good offers. Simple as that.

You weren’t going to get comparable deals because you aren’t grouped with TB anymore.

It’s not rocket science, and if it was you would see a simple thing . You were simply benefiting from commensalism. They didn’t make deals for you, they made deals for the guy who 100% abyss and has R3 champs. Because cavalier was a title you simply got bundled in to some deals. That’s no longer the case . The offers weren’t worse they are just exactly what you get.

If you want to see this, the best way is to take a look at the deals when you beat uncollected vs cavalier. Are you able to 100% cav difficulty?

Honestly, you are right save your money and get a PS5 or buy your wife/ husband a nice blender or spa day. If the offers are good enough you will spend. But your deals won’t be good unless you are TB.

Sormor

For me as a relatively new cav player, the deals were okay but not great. I went into the sales thinking I'd spend a little, and hopefully improve my roster a bit. The deals weren't great, but they at least let me max sig my CapIW and awaken my Aegon and take him to sig 80. So not too bad, but could definitely have been better. Where the deals were missing for me was the guaranteed value in rank up materials. I got lucky with some of the crystals I popped, but also got shafted with the 6* shards. I think the main place the cavalier deals were lacking in a huge way for all levels of cavalier is the absolute lack of any respectable amount of t5b outside of the 5$ offer, and cav players of all levels still need t5b. I know a lot of the focus is on the lack of t5cc, which is completely understandable, but for me I don't even have a 6* worth taking to r2 let alone r3 so it's not what I need right now.

DNA3000

In the end, this is fine with me, because I just won't spend money like I used to, and the feeling in my alliance is much the same. If Kabam wants me to spend, they'll present good offers. Simple as that.

These special offer periods (July 4 and CW) are a bit different, but in general they don't specifically want you spending and that's why the offers don't have great value. They want people spending who are willing to spend a lot for relatively little in return, because those people benefit the game the most: they contribute the most revenue, while unbalancing the game the least with their demands for that cash. And there appear to be about four hundred million dollars per year worth of such people.

The cash offers are like an inverse auction. Some people say they need a pile of stuff this high before they spend. Other people say they only need a small bag of stuff before they spend. Kabam takes the latter people's money, and let's the former keep their money. This isn't greed either; somewhere around 70% of F2P players don't spend at all, and there's no reason to think MCOC is widly different. The more stuff you give to the spenders, the less attractive the game becomes to the free to play players. Which would be fine, except the spenders of tomorrow are the F2P players of today. Choke them off, and your game withers and dies.

You need money today to keep the game going. You need a game that is attractive to free to play players because that's where tomorrow's money is going to come from. So the game tries to get as much revenue as possible while giving out as little game-altering value as possible. At least in general. If you think the offers aren't worth your money, that's not at all strange: you're part of the majority of players who think that, and deciding not to spend on them is the choice you're expected to make.