I know it's long and probably said, but Immortal Hulk; One Tune-Up Away From Viable (In my opinion)

Hello forums,

Thanks to the Epoch Crystals, i had the good fortune of pulling a 5 star version of Immortal Hulk, something, unlike most of the community, I saw as an absolute win. I really like the champion when he gets put in the right situations, which unfortunately, do not happen too often. The recent buff that pauses his RAGE stacks during specials is quite the improvement from before, where anyone that did not have fast specials caused you to lose all those stacks you work so hard for (intercepting like a madman, 3 hit combos, etc.). Unfortunately, while he is now better, he is still a ways away from where he deserves to be; a suicide friendly, raw damage god. I feel like he needs just a touch more before he goes from needing to be situational to being viable. What I suggest is as follows;

1. Treat his RAGE stacks like She-Hulk Furies: She-Hulk is an amazing champion with at ton of usability in tough content, for 3 reasons; her easy access to Slow Debuff, her massive damage, and the Induce Panic passive ability. The Induce Panic passive allows She-Hulk to increase the chance of her opponent throwing special attacks by 15% per passive Fury on her. This allows her to consistently keep and build her Furies, as they refresh each time the opponent throws a special attack. Immortal Hulk needs this type of mechanic BADLY. The minute that an opponent starts playing passively, you've lost your stacks. I suggest that for each RAGE stack on Immortal Hulk, the opponent starts playing 2% more aggressively, stacking up to 50% once you have max stacks. This allows for Immortal Hulk to play aggressive and keep his RAGE stacks a lot easier, making his damage more accessible and making him more viable.
2. Give him access to Slow: The Slow mechanic is insanely useful and is becoming pretty common among Science Champions in particular. Immortal Hulk needs a way to counter some of the powerful defenders of the game, such as Dr. Doom, Thing, Wolverine (Weapon X), Sasquatch, The Champion and Annihilus. I know he gets a chance to Petrify with his Signature Ability and Special 3 attack, so Doom technically gets countered, but it's too difficult to get to that consistent Petrify. I suggest that while RAGE is active, the opponent has a passive Slow Debuff active on them. This would allow Immortal Hulk to remain able to play aggressive, preventing having to lose all rage while waiting for unstoppable to fall off (or Doom's aura).

TLDR: Immortal Hulk is a fun champion that definitely feels better to play after the Tune-Up, but I feel that he needs a mechanic that makes the opponent become aggressive and access to Slow in order to become viable for tough content.

If you read the whole thing, thank you. If you have any alternatives, questions or rebukes to my arguments, I'm welcome to hear them and reply. Please share this around; I'd love to have someone from Kabam read this.

Comments

  • Hera1d_of_Ga1actusHera1d_of_Ga1actus Posts: 2,184 ★★★★★
    Yeah, from my limited testing with IH the rage stacks are TOO short to build up to any heavy hitting damage and a passive AI can really destroy all the rage that you built up. I feel like some of the Rage stacks should have a chance to permanently be applied so he can have an easier time sustaining big damage. Good breakdown though!
  • ThatGuyYouSaw235ThatGuyYouSaw235 Posts: 2,696 ★★★★★
    Maybe increase duration on rage as well and make the SP3 a bit more viable by upping the Gamma Radiation output and dear god buff that 25% petrify
  • 21Eggatron21Eggatron Posts: 43

    Yeah, from my limited testing with IH the rage stacks are TOO short to build up to any heavy hitting damage and a passive AI can really destroy all the rage that you built up. I feel like some of the Rage stacks should have a chance to permanently be applied so he can have an easier time sustaining big damage. Good breakdown though!

    Thanks!

    The whole point of this was to make the champion viable for tougher content, not an insane champion like Cosmic Ghost Rider. I feel that his RAGE making the AI go aggressive rewards high skill players that know how to intercept. Only time I've gotten my RAGE to 25 was with a really aggressive winter soldier, and that damage was PHENOMENAL. If the AI is aggressive you don't need the longer duration, which I feel his play style gets defeated if he can play passively. I like him a lot as is, but players need to feel rewarded for intercepting while playing him.
  • Hera1d_of_Ga1actusHera1d_of_Ga1actus Posts: 2,184 ★★★★★
    I agree, hopefully some devs look at this thread lol
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 2,432 ★★★★★
    I think from what I seen and played with him so far, people are used to do MLLlM with him.

    The combo that I use to keep him going is MLLLL until I hit the SP2 , after that, I go into MLM , MLM. Then MLLLL . Just before I die , I regen all my health back.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 1,926 ★★★★★
    Texas_11 said:

    I think from what I seen and played with him so far, people are used to do MLLlM with him.

    The combo that I use to keep him going is MLLLL until I hit the SP2 , after that, I go into MLM , MLM. Then MLLLL . Just before I die , I regen all my health back.

    You have to go back and forth depending wha mode he’s in.

    When gamma is at 75 he inflicts that petrify and weaknesses with any combo. Basically reverses all healing. The SP2 super reverses healing if the petrify is going
  • WRIRWRIR Posts: 562 ★★★
    Giving him new abilities is NOT a Tune Up.

    A Tune Up is no new abilities, just changes in numbers.

    That said, he would still be viable with a Tune Up. To do so, I'd make his rage last longer, cost 1% health to activate immortality, immortality cooldown shorter.
  • 21Eggatron21Eggatron Posts: 43
    WRIR said:

    Giving him new abilities is NOT a Tune Up.

    A Tune Up is no new abilities, just changes in numbers.

    That said, he would still be viable with a Tune Up. To do so, I'd make his rage last longer, cost 1% health to activate immortality, immortality cooldown shorter.

    I disagree...Punisher 2099 was considered a Tune-Up, and look at what he has. I'm not saying to revamp the character, build on what he has a bit more.
  • CrcrcrcCrcrcrc Posts: 7,554 ★★★★★
    I honestly think he is fine. He has lots of health, and crazy damage. He is a very good champ if the luck is in your favor and still a beast if it isn't.
  • 21Eggatron21Eggatron Posts: 43
    Crcrcrc said:

    I honestly think he is fine. He has lots of health, and crazy damage. He is a very good champ if the luck is in your favor and still a beast if it isn't.

    I definitely see what you mean, but passive AI just slaughters him...since all his damage comes from ramping those mediums, if he can't ramp, you're in for a rough fight; doable, but characters are meant to be used in diverse situations. If a champ is even the slightest bit passive, you can't ramp; making him a bad option for any long fights, where the opponent is guaranteed to hold block at some point or another.
  • CrcrcrcCrcrcrc Posts: 7,554 ★★★★★

    Crcrcrc said:

    I honestly think he is fine. He has lots of health, and crazy damage. He is a very good champ if the luck is in your favor and still a beast if it isn't.

    I definitely see what you mean, but passive AI just slaughters him...since all his damage comes from ramping those mediums, if he can't ramp, you're in for a rough fight; doable, but characters are meant to be used in diverse situations. If a champ is even the slightest bit passive, you can't ramp; making him a bad option for any long fights, where the opponent is guaranteed to hold block at some point or another.
    That isn't always true. I like to get close to an sp2, do an sp1, if stun then MLM and another sp1. Potentially 8 rages, which is a lot of damage still, and passive AI can't stop it.
  • 21Eggatron21Eggatron Posts: 43
    edited December 2020
    Crcrcrc said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I honestly think he is fine. He has lots of health, and crazy damage. He is a very good champ if the luck is in your favor and still a beast if it isn't.

    I definitely see what you mean, but passive AI just slaughters him...since all his damage comes from ramping those mediums, if he can't ramp, you're in for a rough fight; doable, but characters are meant to be used in diverse situations. If a champ is even the slightest bit passive, you can't ramp; making him a bad option for any long fights, where the opponent is guaranteed to hold block at some point or another.
    That isn't always true. I like to get close to an sp2, do an sp1, if stun then MLM and another sp1. Potentially 8 rages, which is a lot of damage still, and passive AI can't stop it.
    In this situation, yes, you are correct. But why have the max at 25 then? Why have such a high damage output that is unavailable unless you have the most aggressive AI in the game? I like his damage a lot, but until you get stuns off of specials in cavalier level fights, odds are you'll be stuck under 6 stacks. What I suggest makes it easier for him to use his big damage and keep it consistent throughout the duration of the fight.
  • CrcrcrcCrcrcrc Posts: 7,554 ★★★★★

    Crcrcrc said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I honestly think he is fine. He has lots of health, and crazy damage. He is a very good champ if the luck is in your favor and still a beast if it isn't.

    I definitely see what you mean, but passive AI just slaughters him...since all his damage comes from ramping those mediums, if he can't ramp, you're in for a rough fight; doable, but characters are meant to be used in diverse situations. If a champ is even the slightest bit passive, you can't ramp; making him a bad option for any long fights, where the opponent is guaranteed to hold block at some point or another.
    That isn't always true. I like to get close to an sp2, do an sp1, if stun then MLM and another sp1. Potentially 8 rages, which is a lot of damage still, and passive AI can't stop it.
    In this situation, yes, you are correct. But why have the max at 25 then? Why have such a high damage output that is unavailable unless you have the most aggressive AI in the game? I like his damage a lot, but until you get stuns off of specials in cavalier level fights, odds are you'll be stuck under 6 stacks. What I suggest makes it easier for him to use his big damage and keep it consistent throughout the duration of the fight.
    I think that 25 is over the top, insane damage that is very hard to access. 6 charges gives a very respectable amount of damage and with intercepts and luck his damage becomes one of the highest in the game.
  • TheLegend27TheLegend27 Posts: 1,144 ★★★★★
    He 100% needs a tune-up of some sort or 1-2 extra abilities. There's no doubt in my mind he was released on a rushed schedule or just simply released unfinished/not tested thoroughly.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 1,926 ★★★★★

    He 100% needs a tune-up of some sort or 1-2 extra abilities. There's no doubt in my mind he was released on a rushed schedule or just simply released unfinished/not tested thoroughly.

    I just think at this point people don’t take the time to learn how to use him.

    Initial testing I finished ROL with no revives or health with him as the only champ on my questing team. The guy lasts forever if you use him efficiently.

    Then, I did multiple paths of RTTL with him again - no resources.

    I don’t have a high enough rarity to do Labyrinth yet and maybe he’s not the best for all fights, but the guy does do some good stuff.
  • TheLegend27TheLegend27 Posts: 1,144 ★★★★★

    He 100% needs a tune-up of some sort or 1-2 extra abilities. There's no doubt in my mind he was released on a rushed schedule or just simply released unfinished/not tested thoroughly.

    I just think at this point people don’t take the time to learn how to use him.

    Initial testing I finished ROL with no revives or health with him as the only champ on my questing team. The guy lasts forever if you use him efficiently.

    Then, I did multiple paths of RTTL with him again - no resources.

    I don’t have a high enough rarity to do Labyrinth yet and maybe he’s not the best for all fights, but the guy does do some good stuff.
    I've been using him every chance I get and will continue to use him every chance I get. I've played him numerous different ways. My personal opinion: ROL testing is worthless, no offense. I've seen you state your experience in ROL a few times, and I'm happy you enjoy him there. I just don't put any stock in ROL testing - and that goes for any character, as a matter of fact. In actual content (for example, I take him into Cav EQ, legendary side quest, Act 6 testing), he has glaring flaws with his kit that would have been noticed right away with proper testing.
  • WRIRWRIR Posts: 562 ★★★

    WRIR said:

    Giving him new abilities is NOT a Tune Up.

    A Tune Up is no new abilities, just changes in numbers.

    That said, he would still be viable with a Tune Up. To do so, I'd make his rage last longer, cost 1% health to activate immortality, immortality cooldown shorter.

    I disagree...Punisher 2099 was considered a Tune-Up, and look at what he has. I'm not saying to revamp the character, build on what he has a bit more.
    They literally did not add any abilities. They just changed the numbers. What you want is an Update, which is what falcon and gambit got, or "the same idea, but better kit"
  • WRIRWRIR Posts: 562 ★★★

    He 100% needs a tune-up of some sort or 1-2 extra abilities. There's no doubt in my mind he was released on a rushed schedule or just simply released unfinished/not tested thoroughly.

    I just think at this point people don’t take the time to learn how to use him.

    Initial testing I finished ROL with no revives or health with him as the only champ on my questing team. The guy lasts forever if you use him efficiently.

    Then, I did multiple paths of RTTL with him again - no resources.

    I don’t have a high enough rarity to do Labyrinth yet and maybe he’s not the best for all fights, but the guy does do some good stuff.
    RoL and RTTL are nothing. Act 6, maybe cav event quests are an OK measure. Cav EQs are worse because they require specific utility though.
  • FluffyPigMonsterFluffyPigMonster Posts: 1,926 ★★★★★
    WRIR said:

    WRIR said:

    Giving him new abilities is NOT a Tune Up.

    A Tune Up is no new abilities, just changes in numbers.

    That said, he would still be viable with a Tune Up. To do so, I'd make his rage last longer, cost 1% health to activate immortality, immortality cooldown shorter.

    I disagree...Punisher 2099 was considered a Tune-Up, and look at what he has. I'm not saying to revamp the character, build on what he has a bit more.
    They literally did not add any abilities. They just changed the numbers. What you want is an Update, which is what falcon and gambit got, or "the same idea, but better kit"
    WRIR said:

    He 100% needs a tune-up of some sort or 1-2 extra abilities. There's no doubt in my mind he was released on a rushed schedule or just simply released unfinished/not tested thoroughly.

    I just think at this point people don’t take the time to learn how to use him.

    Initial testing I finished ROL with no revives or health with him as the only champ on my questing team. The guy lasts forever if you use him efficiently.

    Then, I did multiple paths of RTTL with him again - no resources.

    I don’t have a high enough rarity to do Labyrinth yet and maybe he’s not the best for all fights, but the guy does do some good stuff.
    RoL and RTTL are nothing. Act 6, maybe cav event quests are an OK measure. Cav EQs are worse because they require specific utility though.
    Ok. I still think people don’t use him correctly. All the videos I watch miss the utilities built in to the gamma stacks. People just blow through his health smashing and expect a short cool down.

    There’s more to it than that.
  • NewlinstheoryNewlinstheory Posts: 1,012 ★★★★
    @Crcrcrc I feel that
    I still get she hulk vibes from I-hulk.
    Where its great if the AI cooperates with you so you can get the most damage out and continue to build it up(ofc I hulk is easier to build, but can be tricky to maintain sometimes)

    Really enjoy him so I get from that featured 6* I may take him straight to r3......or she hulk I have both and idk who I enjoy more lol
  • 21Eggatron21Eggatron Posts: 43

    @Crcrcrc I feel that
    I still get she hulk vibes from I-hulk.
    Where its great if the AI cooperates with you so you can get the most damage out and continue to build it up(ofc I hulk is easier to build, but can be tricky to maintain sometimes)

    Really enjoy him so I get from that featured 6* I may take him straight to r3......or she hulk I have both and idk who I enjoy more lol

    Definitely agree that there's a lot of similarities...She-Hulk builds slower but is sustainable and can be used for most content, whereas Immortal Hulk builds quick but struggles to be viable anywhere but act 5 and ROL. I'd be thrilled with the 6 star as I love the champion, but feel he is unsustainable and risk isn't worth reward in several instances.
  • NewlinstheoryNewlinstheory Posts: 1,012 ★★★★
    edited December 2020
    @21Eggatron
    Yeah its unfortunate, i think for me all I would want is to put a cool down on recoil damage after immortality

    -Either reduction of recoil damage during his immortality cool-down

    -0 damage during cooldown of immortality


  • LunaeLunae Posts: 371 ★★★
    He mainly comes off as a burst champion, I have no idea why he isn’t listed as such, but that’s the only way that his kit really makes sense. For this reason I think he’s mainly fine as he is.

    To build him up you use his stuns and just nuke the opponent while they’re helplessly stunned. I personally find it satisfying since his build up is largely undemanding and for the most part it pays off pretty well. You reach his max damage and the fights usually over by the time his rotation is finished all without the opponent having had the opportunity to do much of anything. In my opinion his unblockable serves to easily maintain his rage without worrying how the ai plays and his playstyle overall flows nicely and isn’t as impractical as players make it seem.

    I agree he isn’t the next beyond god tier champion, but he’s not some poorly designed champion either. His suppression debuffs when combined with his unblockable and rage stacks are phenomenal and depending on how he’s played or what phase he’s in if his suppression debuffs come up short then he still has the ability to tank a special 3, unless it stuns or inflicts any DOT of course, and this is where the problem lies for me. He should be totally immune or have the ability to shrug off debuffs during his immortality or regeneration. He seriously needs some form of protection against DOT and while giving him full immunities would be OP, limiting them to a phase like Nick Fury or CMM isn’t an outlandish request.

    Since he’s a champion that relies or rather embodies aggression, I wish his rage stack could be maintained in some capacity while blocking or hitting into the opponents block. While I don’t mind him being a stun and heavy dependent champion because that’s just the way he was designed, I do have a strong distaste for any champion that’s dependent on parrys or stuns and this would at least remedy that some. It would also be nice if the stuns from his kit were passive, but that might honestly be too much.
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