6* shard Arena vs Normal Arena question

So the 6* shard Arena just seems bad, what is the reasoning behind fixing the points the way they are so that on average summoners will need to complete 240-270 Matches/Series ?

I ask because when looking at other Arenas

5* Featured Arena - takes approx 66 Matches to hit 12 million Milestone ( using 6* champs earning 180k per match)
4* Featured Arena - takes approx 44 Matches to hit 4 Million Milestone ( using 5* champs earning 90k per match)
4* Basic Arena - takes approx 42 matches to hit 1.5 million (using 4* earning 35k per match)
3* featured Arena - takes approx 35 matches to hit 640k (using 3* earning 18k per match)

the 5* Anniversary Arena - takes approx 66 matches to hit 1 million milestone ( using 2* earning 15k per match)

now
The 6* Anniversary Arena - takes approx 266 matches to hit 4 million milestone ( using 2* earning 15k per match)

so how did you come to the decision to have the 6* Anniversary shard Arena so much more inflated in matches needed to hit the top milestone then all other arenas in game ?

Even taking the normal arenas and doubling the matches needed to hit all milestones in two arena cycles ( 6 days) to compare with the 7 day anniversary Arena, it still requires at a minimum double the matches (266 / (66*2) = 2 ( rounded to nearest number)

now i am aware the number of matches will vary depending on factors such as suicides, boosts, amount of maxed rank champions but the figures are just used as a approximation for comparison purposes.

I am aware it has been stated that the points are working fine, but i'm curious as to why it differs so much from all other arenas for something which is meant to be celebratory ?

Comments

CASrinivas

All done.

Awesome.....You got out of your House Today? Ate your Meals?
How in the Hell did you do that.....Congrats Buddy

Mrwarren96

All done.

Looks like someone didnt sleep for the last 24 hours, I so hope you pulled someone decent from them shards bro

Chacha888

All done.

LOL, he even had the time to put 2 mil on the five star featured arena.

Maybe if you don’t waste the time complaining, writing forum posts, doing all that math, and feel intimidated, you can accomplish that too.

You don’t need to reach the final milestone. If you can do 600k, that’s 1000 shards. If you can do more, you get more. Much better time investment than regular arena.

BigPoppaCBONE

All done.
LOL, he even had the time to put 2 mil on the five star featured arena.

Maybe if you don’t waste the time complaining, writing forum posts, doing all that math, and feel intimidated, you can accomplish that too.

You don’t need to reach the final milestone. If you can do 600k, that’s 1000 shards. If you can do more, you get more. Much better time investment than regular arena.

So much this

loader187

I understand the arena points for 6* and I understand the value of 6* shards so I don't disagree with the arena and using 2* or that it is 4 million. I just think with all the new content this month and the spidey ham arenas they should of made it longer than 6 days and/or pushed it out to January especially with the holidays(even though most are not traveling).

FloorKiller

the arena can be done in one day if you have (approx) 117x full maxed 2*. by the time u'll use last one, the first one's refresh timer is like 10 minutes, so you can run them continuously. I did the arena in 27 hours (inclusive a normal 7 hours sleep). Good challenge and use of 2* champs! Hope will be implemented in new upgrades of arenas

Bidzy7

All done.
LOL, he even had the time to put 2 mil on the five star featured arena.

Maybe if you don’t waste the time complaining, writing forum posts, doing all that math, and feel intimidated, you can accomplish that too.

You don’t need to reach the final milestone. If you can do 600k, that’s 1000 shards. If you can do more, you get more. Much better time investment than regular arena.

lol i assume this is aimed at me

first off did you read my post.... evidently not. My post was asking why this new arena is so inflated compared to others in the game and used the matches required for other arena milestones as a comparative measure. It was not me saying " omg kabam this arena is too hard , its unfair , i wanted the shards and don't want to grind, please gimme shards".

Me feel intimidated lol, nah i just think time invested vs reward for this isn't great but hey maybe that's because Kabam gives me 10k and 5k just for logging in, or in the same time i spend grinding this out i could 100% 7.1 and get a 6* nexus. Sure 5k shards isn't a small amount by no means but having the arena more in line with say 500 fight requirement like the original arena is to me a more reasonable demand for this reward/arena, which is meant to be a celebration arena as opposed to a competitive arena. 500 fights is around 166 matches which still a fair amount of grinding for people to do.

"doing all that math" lol it took couple of minutes to look up the milestones of each arena and divide that by the average you usually get per match. Hardly call that "all that math".

This guy spent 24 hours grinding Arena good for him, for most that is not a reasonable expectation. Something called real life gets in the way for most. Clearly he really wanted the shards, lets hope he don't end up with a Groot.

Chacha888

I did read you post. Your numbers are “inflated” as well.

You are comparing 3 day arena against 7 day arena. You should multiply number of fights required to reach final milestone of normal arena by 2.33. Then that will be a fair comparison.

Or you can compare the number of fights required to reach final milestone into point for this new arena.

Ex: 66 fights to reach featured 5 star arena final milestone, which will land you in 11-30% reward rank which is 100 six* and 1000 five* shards. 66 fights in this new arena will score 1mil which is 1500 six* shards, while earning 70 less units and ~15k less battlechip.

RamOnTheLake

All done.

https://images.app.goo.gl/74cacahebirV2dg59
This is how it begins

DNA3000

I am aware it has been stated that the points are working fine, but i'm curious as to why it differs so much from all other arenas for something which is meant to be celebratory ?

Because the rewards are a lot better.

I did an analysis of the celebration shard arenas (here: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/239492/return-on-investment-for-the-celebration-shard-arenas) and the 6* shard arena generates about 430 6* shards per hour of grind time, depending on how fast you grind. In the first ten rounds of the 6* shard arena I get almost as many 6* shards (250) as I do for getting 1-5% rank rewards in the 5* featured arena (300). In about 60 rounds in the 5* shard arena you can get 10k 5* shards, which is faster than you can earn 5* shards in any normal arena.

By any measure, the 5* and 6* shard arenas are superior to the normal arenas, unless you are specifically grinding for units. Even there, the shard arenas which don't focus on units generate a sizeable fraction of the units of the normal arena in terms of units/hour of grind time. It is not like you're getting nothing there.

It takes about 230 rounds to get the last milestone in the 6* shard arena. There is no way to do 230 rounds of arena in any combination of any of the normal arenas and get anywhere close to 5000 6* shards. There's no way to do 60 rounds in any combination of the normal arenas and get anywhere close to 10k 5* shards.

For people who say 230 rounds is too much, fair enough. Take however much rounds you think is reasonable, and ask yourself what can you earn with that many rounds in the normal arenas. It probably doesn't come close to what you can earn in the 5* or 6* shard arenas.

If someone doesn't like to do arena at all, I don't think the rewards are so high that they should force themselves to do them. And there are other places in the game to get shards, like AW or Incursions. But in terms of a straight up comparison between the shard arenas and the normal arenas, that's a much more objective comparison. The 5* and 6* shard arenas are better than the normal ones unless you're a grinder that focuses solely on maximizing the amount of units farmed from arena milestones. In that case, the special shard arenas fall a little short of the optimal strategy for farming units.

Bidzy7

@Chacha888 you say you read my post yet

You are comparing 3 day arena against 7 day arena. You should multiply number of fights required to reach final milestone of normal arena by 2.33. Then that will be a fair comparison.

My post

Even taking the normal arenas and doubling the matches needed to hit all milestones in two arena cycles ( 6 days) to compare with the 7 day anniversary Arena, it still requires at a minimum double the matches (266 / (66*2) = 2 ( rounded to nearest number)

clearly i made mention of that. OK i didn't do an exact day for day comparison by multiplying it by 2.33 but my point still is the same.

also how exactly am i inflating numbers, please explain. I used the min values

but OK i will redo it so you can see a clearer comparison and just use the 5* featured arena

Again this is rough approximate as masteries etc play a role in what each person gets so some may get higher points or lower points. Also when i refer to a match i am talking about the 3 fights as a whole and winning all 3.

5* featured - you can usually get a minimum of 180k per match, on the higher end its 225k
so this will mean you can hit all milestones in roughly 67 matches (using min) to 54 matches ( using max)

if we then multiply this by 2.33 to get a 7 day equivalent then you are looking at 156 -124 matches to hit all milestones.

The 6* shard arena gives 15k points per match at the low end and 18k points at the upper end.
This equates to 267 - 222 matches

so it takes 111 - 98 more matches to hit all milestones, which is a lot more like i said compared to all other arenas.

For a celebratory Arena this to me seems very time intense which is what people are upset about.

Either the points should of had a higher multiplier applied to them so to match say the 5* arena introduced in 2017 so that in 500 fights (166 matches) you reach all milestones which is more reasonable for a 7 day arena or the arena should of run for say 2 weeks or something like that.

Bidzy7

@DNA3000

I have skimmed through the massive post you wrote and the thing is we already know this arena is better than any other arena for 6* shards. This is a special event and as such trying to make comparisons with normal arenas in terms of shards gained is pointless. This arena is better compared to say a side event or special challenge.

What you haven't really considered or addressed is what people are actually upset about, which is the effort/time required for this arena in such a short space of time.

You are looking at grinding for 9-10 hours ( on average) to hit all the milestones of the 6* shard arena. That's roughly

80-90 mins everyday dedicated to arena grinding alone. On top of that you have the 5* shard arena which lets be honest if you're uncollected and above you will be wanting them shards too so that is another 2 hours of arena grinding.

so in 7 days we are looking at spending between 11-13 hours purely grinding these arenas. In the same time you have AQ, AW , the monthly EQ, the side quest, As well as the halls of glory/fortune/healing going on at the same time. all this adds up to a lot of time being spent in-game.

Do you think that is a reasonable expectation of players to spend that much time in arena a day ? especially on top of all the other stuff introduced this month for them to grind out.

The reason my post is comparing to normal arenas is because each arena has 10 milestones and the amount to reach each milestone has been determined by Kabam to be something which is reasonably achievable by active players.

If you look at the figures from my first post and the post above this one in response to another user. You can see if you just look at the effort required to reach the last milestone then this 6* shard Arena has a higher effort.

5* featured was 156-122 when scaled up to represent a 7 day arena equivalent.

6* shard arena is 267-222 matches.

when the 5* shard arena first came out in 2017 you had to grind for it and do 500 fights (166 matches) to hit all the milestones.

If we take that figure and compare that to the normal arenas then the amount of matches needed to hit all milestones was 72, which is very similar to the effort to hit all milestones in the 5* featured. To me that was a reasonable demand on the players. This 6* shard arena however seems excessive and too time intense for a celebration arena that is meant to be celebration of the summoners. Again when this was introduced the rewards was so much better then any other arena and even today it still is.

THE CONTEST TURNS 6!

Happy Anniversary to the Contest! We couldn’t have done it without you, so this… is really a celebration of Y.O.U

There is a lot of people who want the shards but due to real life they can't spend that much time in the next 7 days to grind them out. As you said yourself the rewards are really good and unlike the challenges and side events which require a skill element or roster requirement, these shards are very accessible and easy to get for players, they just feel like the number of matches needed is too high for such a small window of 7 days particularly with everything else going on at the moment in terms of in-game and the fact it's the Christmas period too.

To also address the argument that it is this way because the rewards are better, if you compare the effort for this with the side event challenge, well you can get a full 6* crystal among other rewards for spending 2-3 hours as opposed to only 5k shards for spending 9 hours. As i said this arena is more like a special event as it only shows up 1-2 times a year.
You could also do an initial run of abyss in the time it takes to grind out these milestones.

Also it's only 5k shards, kabam gave out 2k/5k/10k shards as a gift and gave TB 5k for just logging in. It's hardly game breaking that you needed such a high effort in 7 days for them. Maybe if this was like a t5cc selector or something i could understand such a high grind in a short space of time.

if you look at the effort required in 7 days, do you not think it seems kinda high ? Do you not think it would be better as a 2 week arena ?

DNA3000

What you haven't really considered or addressed is what people are actually upset about, which is the effort/time required for this arena in such a short space of time.

You are looking at grinding for 9-10 hours ( on average) to hit all the milestones of the 6* shard arena. That's roughly

80-90 mins everyday dedicated to arena grinding alone. On top of that you have the 5* shard arena which lets be honest if you're uncollected and above you will be wanting them shards too so that is another 2 hours of arena grinding.

There's plenty of discussion surrounding the qualitative complaint about the arena taking too much time. My goal here was to look at the objective perspective of exactly how much rewards are in the arenas for how much time, and what the rate of return actually is, not just for someone who attempted to get all of the milestones but also for people who could only get some of them. This is not an argument for the arenas being good or bad: people can choose to complain about whatever they feel is suboptimal with or without the facts surrounding that situation, as always.

Bidzy7

so why exactly are you commenting on a discussion that is centered around the qualitative complaint if you have no desire to discuss that.

like i said i have not seen anyone who has bemoaned that the amount of shards up for grabs is bad. The main issue that people have complained about on the forums is the grind time needed in these 7 days.