Champion trading

BROLOW80808

We could have a trading system between friends and global chat.

Comments

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AGSTROS

From a fellow Madden player to a another, auction is a totally different thing. You still have to grind coins and you get to buy a player that you want. At that point, you know what you're going to get because you can see and choose.

But the end result is still the same, another avenue to hone in on a Champion/Player you specifically want. You would still have to grind for shards just to get a Champion WORTH trading WITH in the first place.

By adding trading, the crystals that make MCOC sort of unique disappear as higher up players will lots of six stars don't have to go with the uncertainty of getting a bad champion by opening a crystal if they can trade.

Oh those crystals left to open will STILL be important and unique as those are the Champions needed to be worth trading with in the first place.

If you are lower summoner with a six star that sucks, whats to stop you from dropping in on an alliance to trade with a friend to get a another better six star.

This is easy. Two words, "luck" and "chance" (coincidentally the exact SAME things you need to open a good crystal am I right?) Luck is needed if you even have a good friend in your alliance willing to trade for your sucky Champion. Chance is needed if NOBODY in your Alliance wants your sucky Champion, so you better chance up and offer a BETTER Champion to trade with.

Another thing, what do we do with levels, resources used, and rank. We would need a system for that to stop a rank 1 6* being traded to get a rank 3 6*. Do players get refunded or does all that hard work you put in go to another player. Do they have to be the same rank, sig stone, and both be awakened? - Sounds like a lot of work!

This is a GREAT Question and I would be open to suggestions on this one. Personally I'm open to all sorts of possibilities but for sake of argument, let's say we stick to the K.I.S.S. formula. Fair Trade market means EQUAL Trades... in other words, SAME Rank, if one is ranked up, then the lower Champion needs some work before being traded. If one is awakened, they both need to be, etc. If KISS doesn't work for you, the alternative would be allowing trades of different ranks and awakenings, but BOTH Champions would then default to bare bones with their new owners. Either way, the parameters are really not that difficult. I'd LOVE to explore the pros/cons of either of these two options if someone cared to?

Overall, MCOC's crystal opening is sort of a trademark for them. You are supposed to feel the uncertainty of whether you're going to get shafted or if you have amazing luck. This game isn't about being able to select who you want but to hope you get lucky and if you don't, grind and try again.

Agreed, but as old as this game is, I'm sure I'm not alone in admitting it's been long overdue of a replacement. An updated Contest of Champions II where we can side avoid in a 3D ring (like Transformers Forge to Fight). But since I don't foresee that, then the game itself needs at least an evolution. It would be super easy to work in trading within Tanaleer's story... he IS THE Collector afterall... and what type of Collector DOESN'T partake in actual TRADING for Heaven's sake?!

(One last thing, I used the work borrow in a previous comment, but if trading was added, I feel like the work ripped off or stolen would be a more tossed around word - What's to stop another player from not giving that champion back. Bans? Not quite sure how'd that help without direct intervention by Kabam in that person's account. That sounds really tiring as well because it would probably happen a lot.)

I believe I mentioned the easy FIX for this one before... But I can elaborate further on this. Every Champion would come with a "Mint" (never traded before) or "Used" (traded) status. Only "Mint" condition Champions CAN be traded. In other words, once you traded for a Champion you REALLY wanted, you had better be 100% sure, because that Champion is now yours for life!

AGSTROS

I'm not sure if people are trolling you or if you're already in on the joke but I'm just making sure you know level 61 doesn't exist.

Yes, I thought it would be cute to run with it. But in all seriousness, what SHOULD the minimum Level be before unlocking the Trade Market Menu? 20? 30? 40?

In response to your "fix", that would be a possibility, but almost no champs are the EXACT same power level as others, so if you could only trade champs of exactly equal power, each champ could only be traded for 2-3 others. If you tried to widen the gap and allow for more trade options, it would inevitably have to include some slightly better/worse champions, which gets back into my initial problem of rewarding people who "scam the system", letting them stack up their rosters by trading better champs to their main account and getting rid of the worse ones.

I would like to dig deeper into this conundrum. Obviously the fix would be on part of Kabam's blame for creating so many Champions that are UNEQUAL, but let's work with what we have as is, shall we? I pose these questions

1) What's so wrong with someone trading a "Good" Champion for a "Bad" one in the first place? Did the number of "Good" Champions increase overall due to trading? No. The SAME "Good" Champion exist (and perhaps even defaulted to bare bones rank and awakening, see previous post) but only belongs to a different owner. What's really so wrong with that? Keep in mind this new owner is someone in YOUR own Alliance. Does that really hurt you because a previous owner in Alliance already HAD that Champion?

2) But your concern now becomes well: 'what if said player in my Alliance becomes more and more powerful by acquiring all of these "Good" Champions and dumping off "Bad" ones'... Again, what's so wrong with that? The exact same "Good" Champions were already in your Alliance owned by different players. And so what if one person has better Champions than you, how does that affect your gameplay? Again, keep in mind all of the hoops that had to be hurdled just to get us to this point. Hypothetical Scammer had to a) Level up to the required minimum b) join an Alliance c) find a schmuck willing to trade for "bad" Champions d) meet the Equal Rank and Awakening requirement or have the Champion reset to Rank 1. and finally e) Keep said Champion for life because of it's "Used" and not "Mint" tag.

These are sincere questions I'm asking to learn here, not trying to be facetious.

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Djin

I don't understand why people are still replying to @AGSTROS he made a new account just for commenting on this thread.

Gardener

OKAY, i create a alt get my first 6* and ITS GHOST, now i trade my 6* for my 6* abomb on my main TOTALYY NOT GAME BREAKING

Pseudouber

It would be awesome and not break the game at all it would just be fun however, it would hinder Kabam's ability to make as much money off people so it just would never happen.

AGSTROS

I don't think I missed any valid points to be honest, as I have read all your previous comments. I just have a different opinion to you. If you hadn't stopped playing for all those years, you'd probably have the champion you wanted so badly by now. And be further along the gameplay with a better roster.

Fair point. But had I used all my precious free time to grind on a bad game, I would've missed out on playing other games like Madden, Transformers FtF and Marvel's Strike Force. Neither here nor there though in respect to the purpose of WHY this was brought up in the first place. Which is this... the missed potential to have a better game is what drove me (and many others) away in the first place.

If there is a champion that you want so badly, that's what the arena grinding events are for. Sure, they are hard work, but put the effort in and you will be rewarded with your favourite champion. If not, spin the wheel of fortune fella, because that's how this game operates.

I think the fallacy in thinking here is that the Trading process is a copout or easy way of acquiring Champions. That shouldn't detract from just how much grinding and effort would actually be involved just to get to the Trading floor in the first place. The trading market would absolutely NOT take away from the current process you know and love, only ADD to it.

These ideas or proposals you made for how to introduce trading, would definitely work, I can't argue with that. It seems similar to a pokemon trading system, albeit with slightly tighter measures to stop people trading 1*'s with 6*'s. However, people will always find loopholes and ways to get around these kind of restrictions.

Agreed, but I'm doing my best to research and have open conversations on here to learn and counter what those potential loopholes COULD be before presenting my findings to Kabam.

My number one argument, is that this is not a game about trading to 'catch 'em all' or to get your favourite. You have to complete the game with the roster you've got. With the good and the bad. It might not be the best argument in the world, but this isn't a trading game. It never has been and (hopefully) never will be.

I respect your argument. Granted it's rooted in the realm of personal preference, there's no amount of facts, research, trends or historical data that could be provided to change your mind once someone likes what they like.

And as you said yourself, the suggestion of trading comes from the silent MINORITY. And for as long as it is a minority, kabam aren't going to make any drastic changes like trading champions.

This I have a problem with. We ARE the minority but only because of one simple reason. Ignorance. Whenever someone even thinks to question the status quo, they get ridiculed, harassed, and embarrassed to silence and conformity or else (just look at the OP for exhibit A.) Now that Group Think has taken over, you have an obvious explanation as to why a Majority believes as you do. But if we can have a fair market exchange of ideas and an open conversation about this, perhaps minds would be freed to think for themselves and change their opinion.

I don't want to MAKE the Minority the Majority (albeit nice)...
I want to make the Minority have the FAIR POSSIBILITY of becoming the Majority.
Does that make sense?

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DigletGaming

We could have a trading system between friends and global chat.

there would be to much: "HEY Give me your 5 star doom, and ill give you a 6 star ______. IM NOT GOING FIRST." And they get the doom, but you get a 2 star spidey classic.

AGSTROS

I don't agree with trading champions. Though it certainly would be nice to trade my mini account my top champs so i can easily clear the content...

but i do think there could be a mechanic to trade resources 1 for 1... Nothing more than that... you got a Skill AG and I got Science? And we want to swap, that i think we should be able to do. It would have to be limited to class versions of resources (so ag's, stones and catalysts) and could only be exchanged like for like... 10 mutant stones for 10 tech stones

But i cant see the game ever bothering to go down the path of making that possible

Your reasoning as to why it would be nice to trade your mini account's Top Champs into your main account may be the exact fears many have expressed here already. But in my opinion, if you're able to:

- Reach a minimum Rank of 30 on each account.
- Join an Alliance with both accounts
- Have an Equal Star Champ to Trade with in the first place
- Have both Champions the exact same Rank & Awakening
- OR If not, accept having both Champions default to Rank 1 and non-Awakened
- Realize that the Champ has gone from "Mint" to "Used" status and can never be traded again.

If you can do all of this, I say you "earned" it!

As far as trading resources, that's a whole new can of worms, I don't feel equipped to handle.
And quite frankly not a hill I'm not willing to die on either... but thanks for the offer though, lol!

AGSTROS

4 words: Diablo 3 Auction house

Research the issue and you will understand why people just say no to this idea in a progression and chance based game.

5 words: Too Overwhelmed Responding To Research

But if you can take the time to fill me in as I have in responding to each of you, I'll gladly read into it.
I'm going to make a prediction here though and say I'm betting the fix could easily be the caveats I mentioned before...

Equal traded Champions, that default to base Rank and Awakening and acquire the "Used" tag as opposed to "Mint"... that should counter your fears.

AGSTROS

I don't understand why people are still replying to @AGSTROS he made a new account just for commenting on this thread.

LMAO! I presume you're accusing me of being a sock puppet?!
Is it really that hard to believe that there are actually TWO whole different people in this whole wide community that could have similar questions and interests?

As I've said before, we are the SILENT MINORITY... but that doesn't mean we're rare...only a percentage point less than the majority to be viable.

AGSTROS

OKAY, i create a alt get my first 6* and ITS GHOST, now i trade my 6* for my 6* abomb on my main TOTALYY NOT GAME BREAKING

You missed A LOT of hurdles...

- Alt account must be a minimum Level 30... check? (hope all that work was worth it.)
- Both accounts must be in the same Alliance... check? (hope your Alliance owner is ok with that.)
- Both Champs must be the same Rank and Awakened... check? (hope your A-Bomb isn't maxed, otherwise you'll have some work to do on your Ghost)
- Both Champs now get defaulted to Rank 1 and not Awakened... check?
- Both Champs receive the "Used" Tag (as opposed to "Mint")... check? (Hope you're ok with that because they can never be traded again.

Once you've done all that, congrats! Your man account now has a "Used" bare bones GHOST.
Now tell me, what harm are you going to inflict others with it?
TOTALLY GAME SAVING REQUIREMENTS AND NOT GAME BREAKING AT ALL.

Crcrcrc

OKAY, i create a alt get my first 6* and ITS GHOST, now i trade my 6* for my 6* abomb on my main TOTALYY NOT GAME BREAKING
You missed A LOT of hurdles...

- Alt account must be a minimum Level 30... check? (hope all that work was worth it.)
- Both accounts must be in the same Alliance... check? (hope your Alliance owner is ok with that.)
- Both Champs must be the same Rank and Awakened... check? (hope your A-Bomb isn't maxed, otherwise you'll have some work to do on your Ghost)
- Both Champs now get defaulted to Rank 1 and not Awakened... check?
- Both Champs receive the "Used" Tag (as opposed to "Mint")... check? (Hope you're ok with that because they can never be traded again.

Once you've done all that, congrats! Your man account now has a "Used" bare bones GHOST.
Now tell me, what harm are you going to inflict others with it?
TOTALLY GAME SAVING REQUIREMENTS AND NOT GAME BREAKING AT ALL.

Kabam now loses all profits they would have gained from them spending money to attempt to get a Ghost.

AGSTROS

It would be awesome and not break the game at all it would just be fun however, it would hinder Kabam's ability to make as much money off people so it just would never happen.

Going to pose a basic Hypothetical explaining how and why Kabam wouldn't lose money.

Scenario A: (Current)
Tom, Dirk and Harry all want a GHOST.
Tom unlocks GHOST as anyone normally would.
Dirk and Harry are out of luck and must keep grinding and possibly "pay" Kabam to get a lucky GHOST as well.

Scenario B: (With Trading)
Tom, Dirk and Harry all want a GHOST.
Tom unlocks GHOST as anyone normally would.
Dirk and Harry are out of luck but now try to convince Tom to trade them the GHOST Tom has.
Tom has finicky demands and would rather have a DOMINO instead.
Dirk and Harry now must keep grinding for a DOMINO to trade with by "paying" Kabam to get it.

Notice, in BOTH scenarios, the amount of players that are going to "Pay-to-Play" with Kabam has NOT changed.
Granted this is just a small scale model, but magnify this a hundred thousand fold and the results will still be the same. Kabam does NOT lose money.

Crcrcrc

It would be awesome and not break the game at all it would just be fun however, it would hinder Kabam's ability to make as much money off people so it just would never happen.
Going to pose a basic Hypothetical explaining how and why Kabam wouldn't lose money.

Scenario A: (Current)
Tom, **** and Harry all want a GHOST.
Tom unlocks GHOST as anyone normally would.
**** and Harry are out of luck and must keep grinding and possibly "pay" Kabam to get a lucky GHOST as well.

Scenario B: (With Trading)
Tom, **** and Harry all want a GHOST.
Tom unlocks GHOST as anyone normally would.
**** and Harry are out of luck but now try to convince Tom to trade them the GHOST Tom has.
Tom has finicky demands and would rather have a DOMINO instead.
**** and Harry now must keep grinding for a DOMINO to trade with by "paying" Kabam to get it.

Notice, in BOTH scenarios, the amount of players that are going to "Pay-to-Play" with Kabam has NOT changed.
Granted this is just a small scale model, but magnify this a hundred thousand fold and the results will still be the same. Kabam does NOT lose money.

Tom and **** are grinding for a Domino and have just started. They see an ad for a 6* Ghost trade for $30 on Line or something. They pass on grinding for Domino and spending in the game and one of them purchases their Ghost. The other one finds someone selling a Doom and buys that instead. Kabam makes $0, and both people have the champs they want.

DRTO

Bro just stop, trading will never be a part of the game. A million people have asked and it just won't happen. You can come up with the fairest system possible and write a 1000 page book about why it's a good idea but at the end of the day it won't matter. Kabam would have introduced it already if they truly thought it was a good idea, but it's not so please stop bringing this topic up. If you want a game that trades champs look elsewhere.

AGSTROS

The "schmuck" willing to give them unfair trades is their alt account. That's what I'm saying is people will create multiple accounts solely for the purpose of funneling all the good champs from their many alt accounts to their main. Even if the level cap was the highest possible, 60, I still know many friends and alliance mates who have multiple lv60 accounts without much difficulty.

But this brings us back to square one of where the problem rubs people the wrong way. IF said friends really have put THAT much work and time INTO fulfilling multiple accounts. That's not only more potential funds going Kabam's way, but it sounds like these friends have EARNED that trading right.

So what harm does it really do to you personally? They've owned these desired Champs all along (albeit in separate accounts) but now they're just confined to one account. How is that hurting you personally? How is what your friend owns affecting YOUR game?

Sincere question here, not being facetious. People always seem to bring up this as a fear point but never explain WHY it's a fear.

AGSTROS

Tom and **** are grinding for a Domino and have just started. They see an ad for a 6* Ghost trade for $30 on Line or something. They pass on grinding for Domino and spending in the game and one of them purchases their Ghost. The other one finds someone selling a Doom and buys that instead. Kabam makes $0, and both people have the champs they want.

No problem. You say Bill has posted an ad for a 6* Ghost? Guess how Bill got that Ghost (that he ultimately doesn't want) in the first place? He had to abide by the CURRENT Kabam system and EARN it. (He couldn't trade for it remember, because of the "Used" Tag). So Bill is "paying" Kabam now in lieu of Tom.

As for Dirk, he CAN'T trade for a Doom, because then the Champ will be tagged as "Used" and kept in his collection forever. And remember, the "Used" and "Mint" tags are designed to curb this abuse from happening. So Dirk plays the game as normal to get his Domino or Ghost.

So ultimately, the same 2 people that "pay" Kabam in the original scenario are still only 2 people in the trading scenario.

AGSTROS

Bro just stop, trading will never be a part of the game. A million people have asked and it just won't happen. You can come up with the fairest system possible and write a 1000 page book about why it's a good idea but at the end of the day it won't matter. Kabam would have introduced it already if they truly thought it was a good idea, but it's not so please stop bringing this topic up. If you want a game that trades champs look elsewhere.

This is why I will never stop... there's HOPE from Kabam Support themselves....

PicoBp

So much talk on something that's against the Terms of Service...

@AGSTROS you probably missed the times when the game was infected (and to some extent still is) with bots, mercs, sold and piloted accounts. Just look at how much Kabam had to stiffen up for a gifting (!!!) event, to avoid the scandals of 2019.

The whole point of the game is to grow your own account. Not to "buy" (trade) the top champs and single handedly beat all content. And it's also part of the fun, finding ways to tackle story and quests with whatever roster your luck gave you.

Everyone would want Aegon, Doom, Ghost, Quake, Domino, CGR... And you'd see "loaner" accounts left and right, with no other purpose than to trade/sell god tier+ champs. Just like the arena bots farming units and selling/gifting away. Now they would rise again to farm champs and steal rewards from those that actually grinded for days. Where would the diversity go? Not to mention the balance of Alliance Wars...

If I might ask, what's your progression level in the game? Not how long you had an account, but how far you are in content, roster, activities?

P.S.: It only takes a couple days to bring an account to lvl30. You can walk through act4, maybe even get uncollected in a matter of two weeks with a secondary acc easily.

Crcrcrc

So what harm does it really do to you personally? They've owned these desired Champs all along (albeit in separate accounts) but now they're just confined to one account. How is that hurting you personally? How is what your friend owns affecting YOUR game?

Sincere question here, not being facetious. People always seem to bring up this as a fear point but never explain WHY it's a fear.

It's hurting the state of the game because people are abusing a system in an unintended way in order to gain unfair benefits for themselves. You're right that it doesn't hurt any specific player, but it compromises the overall integrity of the game by disrupting the way Kabam wants this game to be played.

I also noticed your response to someone who claimed that trading wouldn't earn Kabam less money, but it most certainly would. Let me give you an example: My alliance mate who whales on crystals has been dying for a 5 star apocalypse and spent $200 on cav crystals trying to get him. However, I'm a f2p who's not as serious, and I would certainly be willing to "trade" him my 5* apocalypse for like $30 if he just gave me cash. In this case Kabam would've lost $170. I feel like this would happen fairly frequently, as people like me, who aren't as serious about the game, would be willing to "sell" our champs for a lot cheaper than dedicated players normally spend trying to pull them from crystals.
Actually, Kabam would have lost $200. The $30 from the trade wouldn't go to Kabam

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AGSTROS

Actually, Kabam would have lost $200. The $30 from the trade wouldn't go to Kabam

Actually, Kabam would have received those same $200. Bill paid it out trying to get EARN the Ghost Dirk paid him $30 for to make the trade happen.

Once the economics get realized of how this game wouldn't lend itself to making ANYONE financial profit, there'll be less and less of it.

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AGSTROS

So much talk on something that's against the Terms of Service...

@AGSTROS you probably missed the times when the game was infected (and to some extent still is) with bots, mercs, sold and piloted accounts. Just look at how much Kabam had to stiffen up for a gifting (!!!) event, to avoid the scandals of 2019.

The whole point of the game is to grow your own account. Not to "buy" (trade) the top champs and single handedly beat all content. And it's also part of the fun, finding ways to tackle story and quests with whatever roster your luck gave you.

Everyone would want Aegon, Doom, Ghost, Quake, Domino, CGR... And you'd see "loaner" accounts left and right, with no other purpose than to trade/sell god tier+ champs. Just like the arena bots farming units and selling/gifting away. Now they would rise again to farm champs and steal rewards from those that actually grinded for days. Where would the diversity go? Not to mention the balance of Alliance Wars...

If I might ask, what's your progression level in the game? Not how long you had an account, but how far you are in content, roster, activities?

P.S.: It only takes a couple days to bring an account to lvl30. You can walk through act4, maybe even get uncollected in a matter of two weeks with a secondary acc easily.

For something to be AGAINST the TOS implies that it's currently possible to be done.
So you mean to tell me, it's currently possible for someone to trade or sell Champs?
Because if so, my whole argument is moot and I can just follow these dark channels myself and get the 4* Iron Man I want and be gone, right?

Scandals of 2019? I wasn't here... fill me in if you would.

Everything you objected to about "growing account" "not taking long" "farming" "stealing" I've already covered and explained how to counter in previous responses.

I'm a Level 41. And I've been at 41 for 2 months now. I'm a casual gamer because it's no fun playing with an awakened 2* Iron Man... but it would be MORE FUN if I had that 4* Iron Man... then I'd be more active and possibly consider becoming a more dedicated gamer.

PicoBp

Actually, Kabam would have lost $200. The $30 from the trade wouldn't go to Kabam
Actually, Kabam would have received those same $200. Bill paid it out trying to get EARN the Ghost Dirk paid him $30 for to make the trade happen.

Once the economics get realized of how this game wouldn't lend itself to making ANYONE financial profit, there'll be less and less of it.

You don't get it, do you? Drops are random. One can have Doom as his/her first 6* from a free crystal. Ever heard the term "free to play"? My secondary acc rocks Silver Surfer out of only 2 6* pulls. Both from the shards found in GGCs. Never spent a dime on that acc. Top tier endgame players spend thousands to get one just for his prestige. Do you really think they would leave their thick wallets on the table, if they could just trade any of their 150+ 6* champs for it?

I'm lost if you're just stubborn, naive, or lacking knowledge on the (end)game.

AGSTROS

It's hurting the state of the game because people are abusing a system in an unintended way in order to gain unfair benefits for themselves. You're right that it doesn't hurt any specific player, but it compromises the overall integrity of the game by disrupting the way Kabam wants this game to be played.

I also noticed your response to someone who claimed that trading wouldn't earn Kabam less money, but it most certainly would. Let me give you an example: My alliance mate who whales on crystals has been dying for a 5 star apocalypse and spent $200 on cav crystals trying to get him. However, I'm a f2p who's not as serious, and I would certainly be willing to "trade" him my 5* apocalypse for like $30 if he just gave me cash. In this case Kabam would've lost $200. I feel like this would happen fairly frequently, as people like me, who aren't as serious about the game, would be willing to "sell" our champs for a lot cheaper than dedicated players normally spend trying to pull them from crystals.

EDIT: Changed to $200, thanks crcrcrc

In the scenario above, the hindsight is still dependent on several variables. Your friend only realized they're willing to spend $30 more towards you but AFTER having spent $200 towards Kabam in cav crystals. Also, if you're going to trade him a 5* Apocalypse, the Trade Market rules state he must have a 5* Something to trade with to make it happen. Time and money must be exerted there as well just to get him to the trading table.

Either way, Kabam STILL doesn't lose any money.

AGSTROS

No because if Bill knew he could just get it from Dirk 100% guaranteed for $30 he wouldn't have spent $200 just trying to get lucky from crystals.

But SOMEBODY is going to have to spend $200 just to get to the trading table in the first place to make it an EQUAL trade. But in this case an additional $30 is thrown into the mix because somebody has decided to pay.