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Would you consider Symbiote Supreme to be a top tier champ?

2»

Comments

  • Options
    SlapdashSlapdash Posts: 39
    No

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    Sure, every champ has weaknesses. The problem is that for sym to be in the discussion, there have to be buffs, and I can't think of a more damaging weakness. Your comparison, Doom, has nothing even near that.
    Even ignoring the issue of buffs, sym's power control and tanking is solid, but putting him over Doom and Magik here isn't possible.
    I really don't know what to say to this last point. Your experience differs from mine, and that's fair. Mine will likely sit at r4 for the rest of time.
  • Options
    IceBroIceBro Posts: 179 ★★
    Yes
    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    Sure, every champ has weaknesses. The problem is that for sym to be in the discussion, there have to be buffs, and I can't think of a more damaging weakness. Your comparison, Doom, has nothing even near that.
    Even ignoring the issue of buffs, sym's power control and tanking is solid, but putting him over Doom and Magik here isn't possible.
    I really don't know what to say to this last point. Your experience differs from mine, and that's fair. Mine will likely sit at r4 for the rest of time.
    Buffs are prevalent in so many paths in the game so don't know what you're basing your analysis on. If there is a path with buffs... I'm bring SS period unless it be a path where an immunity is required then I bring claire. SS still dominates to this day.
  • Options
    EdeuinkEdeuink Posts: 1,263 ★★★★
    Yes
    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    Sure, every champ has weaknesses. The problem is that for sym to be in the discussion, there have to be buffs, and I can't think of a more damaging weakness. Your comparison, Doom, has nothing even near that.
    Even ignoring the issue of buffs, sym's power control and tanking is solid, but putting him over Doom and Magik here isn't possible.
    I really don't know what to say to this last point. Your experience differs from mine, and that's fair. Mine will likely sit at r4 for the rest of time.
    Quick list of champions who have buffs and are susceptible to bleed. They are indicated with a yellow scribble. This chart is old.



    Also, another piece of content that hasn’t been mentioned as good for Sym Sup is V6. He dominates the venom boss. If you use the global node to elongate your protection, you can ignore the energize.
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,377 ★★★★★
    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    Sure, every champ has weaknesses. The problem is that for sym to be in the discussion, there have to be buffs, and I can't think of a more damaging weakness. Your comparison, Doom, has nothing even near that.
    Even ignoring the issue of buffs, sym's power control and tanking is solid, but putting him over Doom and Magik here isn't possible.
    I really don't know what to say to this last point. Your experience differs from mine, and that's fair. Mine will likely sit at r4 for the rest of time.
    There are far more fights that involve buffs vs ones that aren't.
  • Options
    EdeuinkEdeuink Posts: 1,263 ★★★★
    Yes
    Edeuink said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    Sure, every champ has weaknesses. The problem is that for sym to be in the discussion, there have to be buffs, and I can't think of a more damaging weakness. Your comparison, Doom, has nothing even near that.
    Even ignoring the issue of buffs, sym's power control and tanking is solid, but putting him over Doom and Magik here isn't possible.
    I really don't know what to say to this last point. Your experience differs from mine, and that's fair. Mine will likely sit at r4 for the rest of time.
    Quick list of champions who have buffs and are susceptible to bleed. They are indicated with a yellow scribble. This chart is old.



    Also, another piece of content that hasn’t been mentioned as good for Sym Sup is V6. He dominates the venom boss. If you use the global node to elongate your protection, you can ignore the energize.
    I was pretty sloppy here, I think I missed a few matchups.
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,377 ★★★★★
    Edeuink said:

    Edeuink said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    Sure, every champ has weaknesses. The problem is that for sym to be in the discussion, there have to be buffs, and I can't think of a more damaging weakness. Your comparison, Doom, has nothing even near that.
    Even ignoring the issue of buffs, sym's power control and tanking is solid, but putting him over Doom and Magik here isn't possible.
    I really don't know what to say to this last point. Your experience differs from mine, and that's fair. Mine will likely sit at r4 for the rest of time.
    Quick list of champions who have buffs and are susceptible to bleed. They are indicated with a yellow scribble. This chart is old.



    Also, another piece of content that hasn’t been mentioned as good for Sym Sup is V6. He dominates the venom boss. If you use the global node to elongate your protection, you can ignore the energize.
    I was pretty sloppy here, I think I missed a few matchups.
    Maybe but the real offense here is the light theme lol
  • Options
    SlapdashSlapdash Posts: 39
    No
    IceBro said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    Sure, every champ has weaknesses. The problem is that for sym to be in the discussion, there have to be buffs, and I can't think of a more damaging weakness. Your comparison, Doom, has nothing even near that.
    Even ignoring the issue of buffs, sym's power control and tanking is solid, but putting him over Doom and Magik here isn't possible.
    I really don't know what to say to this last point. Your experience differs from mine, and that's fair. Mine will likely sit at r4 for the rest of time.
    Buffs are prevalent in so many paths in the game so don't know what you're basing your analysis on. If there is a path with buffs... I'm bring SS period unless it be a path where an immunity is required then I bring claire. SS still dominates to this day.
    Let me put this another way. Let's say half of the paths in endgame content/war/ variants have enough fights with buffs to bring sym. I'd consider this a fair estimate. From this half, nodes will eliminate matchups, just like every other champ. The problem is the "From this half" clause that other champs don't have. Many do have opponents they can't handle regardless of nodes (like Doom against Torch), but nothing so severe.
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,377 ★★★★★
    Slapdash said:

    IceBro said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    Sure, every champ has weaknesses. The problem is that for sym to be in the discussion, there have to be buffs, and I can't think of a more damaging weakness. Your comparison, Doom, has nothing even near that.
    Even ignoring the issue of buffs, sym's power control and tanking is solid, but putting him over Doom and Magik here isn't possible.
    I really don't know what to say to this last point. Your experience differs from mine, and that's fair. Mine will likely sit at r4 for the rest of time.
    Buffs are prevalent in so many paths in the game so don't know what you're basing your analysis on. If there is a path with buffs... I'm bring SS period unless it be a path where an immunity is required then I bring claire. SS still dominates to this day.
    Let me put this another way. Let's say half of the paths in endgame content/war/ variants have enough fights with buffs to bring sym. I'd consider this a fair estimate. From this half, nodes will eliminate matchups, just like every other champ. The problem is the "From this half" clause that other champs don't have. Many do have opponents they can't handle regardless of nodes (like Doom against Torch), but nothing so severe.
    Well... In War you get 3 attackers. In quests you get 5. No one is saying he's going to fight every fight. You keep acting like that's what we're saying. We're saying he's way more valuable than what you and OP are saying.
  • Options
    Legendary_PoeyLegendary_Poey Posts: 209

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    If you use the Sym more than the other two you have a clear confirmation bias in this situation. Doom and Sorcerer are clearly better champs and me trying to argue against you would be bashing my head into a brick. That's what I like about the game though. Everyone finds champions that they love to play with and can find uses for them.
  • Options
    Legendary_PoeyLegendary_Poey Posts: 209

    Slapdash said:

    IceBro said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    Sure, every champ has weaknesses. The problem is that for sym to be in the discussion, there have to be buffs, and I can't think of a more damaging weakness. Your comparison, Doom, has nothing even near that.
    Even ignoring the issue of buffs, sym's power control and tanking is solid, but putting him over Doom and Magik here isn't possible.
    I really don't know what to say to this last point. Your experience differs from mine, and that's fair. Mine will likely sit at r4 for the rest of time.
    Buffs are prevalent in so many paths in the game so don't know what you're basing your analysis on. If there is a path with buffs... I'm bring SS period unless it be a path where an immunity is required then I bring claire. SS still dominates to this day.
    Let me put this another way. Let's say half of the paths in endgame content/war/ variants have enough fights with buffs to bring sym. I'd consider this a fair estimate. From this half, nodes will eliminate matchups, just like every other champ. The problem is the "From this half" clause that other champs don't have. Many do have opponents they can't handle regardless of nodes (like Doom against Torch), but nothing so severe.
    Well... In War you get 3 attackers. In quests you get 5. No one is saying he's going to fight every fight. You keep acting like that's what we're saying. We're saying he's way more valuable than what you and OP are saying.
    I did say he was worth ranking and a great champion where he can be used.
  • Options
    BuffBeastBuffBeast Posts: 1,075 ★★★★
    Yes
    @ Kill_grey

    Wait a minute
  • Options
    SlapdashSlapdash Posts: 39
    No

    Slapdash said:

    IceBro said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    Sure, every champ has weaknesses. The problem is that for sym to be in the discussion, there have to be buffs, and I can't think of a more damaging weakness. Your comparison, Doom, has nothing even near that.
    Even ignoring the issue of buffs, sym's power control and tanking is solid, but putting him over Doom and Magik here isn't possible.
    I really don't know what to say to this last point. Your experience differs from mine, and that's fair. Mine will likely sit at r4 for the rest of time.
    Buffs are prevalent in so many paths in the game so don't know what you're basing your analysis on. If there is a path with buffs... I'm bring SS period unless it be a path where an immunity is required then I bring claire. SS still dominates to this day.
    Let me put this another way. Let's say half of the paths in endgame content/war/ variants have enough fights with buffs to bring sym. I'd consider this a fair estimate. From this half, nodes will eliminate matchups, just like every other champ. The problem is the "From this half" clause that other champs don't have. Many do have opponents they can't handle regardless of nodes (like Doom against Torch), but nothing so severe.
    Well... In War you get 3 attackers. In quests you get 5. No one is saying he's going to fight every fight. You keep acting like that's what we're saying. We're saying he's way more valuable than what you and OP are saying.
    He doesn't have to fight every fight. I said paths that have "enough fights with buffs" not "buffs on every fight". I can't justify bringing him to a path when he can only do a fight or two (where another mystic could do that and more), unless the fight(s) are extremely niche.
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,377 ★★★★★

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    If you use the Sym more than the other two you have a clear confirmation bias in this situation. Doom and Sorcerer are clearly better champs and me trying to argue against you would be bashing my head into a brick. That's what I like about the game though. Everyone finds champions that they love to play with and can find uses for them.
    You mean like trying to convince you that Sym Supreme is viable in end game content even though he clearly is.
  • Options
    Legendary_PoeyLegendary_Poey Posts: 209

    Slapdash said:

    Slapdash said:

    DannyB01 said:

    "Those conditions often aren't met in endgame content"...are we playing different games?!

    Apparently abyss VTD isn't end game
    The conditions do exist, no one ever said they didn't. They just don't appear often enough to make him "top tier" imo. He's probably the best for that fight, but for how many more?
    He's viable for a ton of fights all throughout all the content in the game. Any fight that has buffs, he's good for. The defender doesn't need to bleed for him to do well either. Toss sp2's with 100 Genetic Potential and with MD you'll get it back. His SP2 hits pretty hard.

    You can tank sp3s as well. None of those other mystics can do that.
    There are plenty of scenarios in act 6 and 7 where he's either not ideal (in comparison to other mystics or in general) or unusable, despite buffs present. His effective range is definitely narrower than all buff matchups.

    Since top mystics tend to have power control, tanking l3s doesn't make him stand out that much, even though it can be useful.
    But that's all champions. Is Sym Supreme the best for every fight? No, he's not. Neither is Doom.

    Sym Supreme does have power control.

    I have a 5/65 Doom and Sorcerer Supreme in addition to a R5 and R3 Sym Supreme and I use my Sym Supreme more that the other 2 every time.
    If you use the Sym more than the other two you have a clear confirmation bias in this situation. Doom and Sorcerer are clearly better champs and me trying to argue against you would be bashing my head into a brick. That's what I like about the game though. Everyone finds champions that they love to play with and can find uses for them.
    You mean like trying to convince you that Sym Supreme is viable in end game content even though he clearly is.
    I've never stated he wasn't viable. I said in my initial comment I often couldn't find as many places to use him, being compared to other top tier mystics.
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    Hera1d_of_Ga1actusHera1d_of_Ga1actus Posts: 2,439 ★★★★★
    Yes

    The only "condition" he needs is opponents who aren't Bleed immune, his Staggers still feed his Genetic Potential. The key to applying the Staggers is to backdraft in Chtlon's Cunning (to trigger Dexterity) and Parry in Null's Shadow (to gain the 50% chance to Stagger.) He's not as good as the above-mentioned Champs, but better than most other Mystics.

    Seems we have a different opinion on what "top tier" is. I think he is good just not on that next level that I consider the top tier.
    He easily hits a level similar to Doom on cosmic fights in the Abyss easy path. That’s enough for top tier in my opinion
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    Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Posts: 4,139 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Sym supreme is easily top tier. He is a buff controlling beast.
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    phillgreenphillgreen Posts: 3,803 ★★★★★
    edited February 2021
    No
    I don't know the rotation to maximise his use and I tend to undervalue champs when I don't understand them so I'm forced to vote no based on my lack of experience.

    Can someone please give me the gist of using SymSup?
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    Legendary_PoeyLegendary_Poey Posts: 209
    edited February 2021

    I don't know the rotation to maximise his use and I tend to undervalue champs when I don't understand them so I'm forced to vote no based on my lack of experience.

    Can someone please give me the gist of using SymSup?

    You'll want to have 3 or 4 md to maximize his rotation. Basically just save up to l3, throw it when you can then spam l2 while you have the power steal on it. Deep wounds is also recommended.
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    Yes
    He’s not Doom but for me he comes in second. I don’t run suicides so haven’t really got on the BWCV hype train and I’ve not learned how to use Sorcerer Supreme yet so until such a time as I master her then Symbiote will be my #2.
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    EinfachSoEinfachSo Posts: 269 ★★
    Yes
    BuffBeast said:

    @ Kill_grey

    Wait a minute

    what happened to that guy? He was in every topic....
    Has he been banned for cheating again?
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