They Killed YellowJacket

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  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    edited February 1

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,767 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,767 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
  • Destroy4589Destroy4589 Posts: 250 ★★★
    lol literally nothing would change if Kingpin's rage were passives instead of debuffs. This gimped regen just sucks. Keep the rage passive and stick to normal regen rate
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    Whoever said anything about immunity to AAR?
  • Batty_NumppoBatty_Numppo Posts: 276 ★★

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
  • GoddessIliasGoddessIlias Posts: 618 ★★★
    Mines going r3 screw the haters lol
  • Judge_PainJudge_Pain Posts: 93

    To say kabam missed the mark on this buff is a huge understatement. His name is YELLOWJACKET and his power stings don’t hold a flame to a god damn cartoon spider pig??? Seriously kabam?
    Also ZERO increase to his damage which was so bad.
    Lastly, why would you remove power sting from his sp2 and no taunt? We all know without the taunt, the A.I will magically throw their special the SECOND your power stings end lol
    Still testing my r2 duped 6* but so far good utility but a lot of opportunities were missed

    This is where I came down on the rework. Rather than enhancing the aspects that made him unique originally, power stings, they went away from that mechanic. Really had hoped to see taunt and power sting coming into play in his basic attacks considering his moniker is that of an agressive stinging bug.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,767 ★★★★★

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,553 ★★★★★

    I see a lot of people disagreeing with the OP on this but I took him for a few whirls and he really is just about as useless as before. Let’s talk about his damage and utility.

    Damage: I’m guessing Etjama got a 50K power sting from throwing a SP3 and an SP1 to get 4 total power stings, including a big one from the SP3. This aligns with him having a 60-hit combo I think. If I’m wrong, Etjama can correct me, but isn’t it concerning that a 5/65 YJ with suicides and class advantage has had to throw 60 hits so far and only took down 36% health from RoL Juggs? I dunno about y’all but a true damage dealer would have done way more damage much more quickly. Definitely not a damage champ in my books so what about utility.

    Utility: In addition to his power stings, there are only two other pieces of utility here. Energy resistance and petrify. That’s it. Idk why he’s hyped as being a utility champ cuz all he can do now is take a lot less energy damage and, for 15 seconds only after every SP2, reduce and often reverse healing and power gain. Considering the petrify usually falls off between SP2s, I think there are much better options for both consistently reversing regen, like Mags, HT and Void, and for consistently reducing power gainers, like Void, Doc Oc or a good nullifier.

    I’m not taking my 6* YJ into anything in the future based on this. He’s only slightly better, but for a champ whose buff was supposed to be an actual kit rework, he adds nothing to the game that someone (or multiple someones) can’t do better.

    You forgot his slow
  • SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 18,600 ★★★★★
    a) isn’t the willpower healing actually bugged on Kingpin?
    b) the premise of this thread is stupid. Yellowjacket was buffed, and is loads more viable than he was before. If you don’t want to use him, don’t use him. Nobody’s forcing you to play Yellowjacket. Not every buff is going to be Mags level insane. It’s a good buff.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 13,506 Guardian

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    I see a lot of people disagreeing with the OP on this but I took him for a few whirls and he really is just about as useless as before. Let’s talk about his damage and utility.

    Damage: I’m guessing Etjama got a 50K power sting from throwing a SP3 and an SP1 to get 4 total power stings, including a big one from the SP3. This aligns with him having a 60-hit combo I think. If I’m wrong, Etjama can correct me, but isn’t it concerning that a 5/65 YJ with suicides and class advantage has had to throw 60 hits so far and only took down 36% health from RoL Juggs? I dunno about y’all but a true damage dealer would have done way more damage much more quickly. Definitely not a damage champ in my books so what about utility.

    Utility: In addition to his power stings, there are only two other pieces of utility here. Energy resistance and petrify. That’s it. Idk why he’s hyped as being a utility champ cuz all he can do now is take a lot less energy damage and, for 15 seconds only after every SP2, reduce and often reverse healing and power gain. Considering the petrify usually falls off between SP2s, I think there are much better options for both consistently reversing regen, like Mags, HT and Void, and for consistently reducing power gainers, like Void, Doc Oc or a good nullifier.

    I’m not taking my 6* YJ into anything in the future based on this. He’s only slightly better, but for a champ whose buff was supposed to be an actual kit rework, he adds nothing to the game that someone (or multiple someones) can’t do better.

    That ss wasn't mine, it was Kam's, but that damage can go up even more with nuclear charges and sure, you need to get up to the Sp3 but then the power sting stays active for the rest of the fight at max sig. From there on out, it's just going to be Sp1 spam and you're getting that damage on every special they throw. He's obviously not a pure damage dealer but the damage is great!

    As for the utility, he has tons. One of the best regen rate modifications in the game, one of the highest energy resistances, a really long slow on his heavy and yes, the Petrify and power stings. How is ignoring healing, unstoppable, evade, and power gain not a lot of utility?
    I forgot about the slow, since for some reason they made it a solo synergy only affecting himself (not sure how that differs from a base ability?) but it’s still not an amazing slow debuff. My real point is that there are a lot of champs that can do what he can do even better, while also dealing a LOT more damage.
    I have no idea why they didn't just put the slow in his base kit, but what are you talking about? It's a great slow debuff. It's only 2 seconds less than She-Hulk's. And he quite honestly deals with non-reversable healing better than almost any champ other than Warlock, but unlike Warlock, he actually can reverse healing too. Plus power stings, preventing power gain, and top 3 energy resistance in the game. Since he does need max sig for the damage, I'm fine with people saying it's not great, but he so obviously has lots of utility.
    A 10 second slow debuff at the expense of 10 charges doesn’t seem manageable to me for a whole fight. Haven’t played with this new part of his kit yet so I could be wrong, but this means having to get in like 15-20 hits to regain the 10 charges you spend with every heavy, which doesn’t seem realistic within a 10-second window to keep it up forever. If it’s unstoppable I’m dealing with, Ill go with Stealthy and She Hulk every day, both of whom deal so much more damage. If it’s evade... honestly there are just a ton of great evade counters so this is hardly a shining part for me. Maybe that’s why they stuck it in a synergy instead.
    One reason to give a champion an ability as a self-synergy rather than just giving it to them directly in their standard abilities is that self-synegies, like all synergies, don't function when placed as defenders. So self-synergy abilities benefit players when they use the champ, but players don't have to face that ability when they fight the champ as a defender in war or when placed on a content map. Sometimes that could be because the ability is too strong to give to a defender, and sometimes the ability is too easy to manipulate by the players for advantage.

    And something I've never understood, but especially these days, is when players pick apart individual abilities and compare them without looking at the whole. Maybe in the past you could almost justify doing this, but in the current state of the game, particularly how higher end content is designed, we are not being asked to bring an evade counter or a regen counter. The content is demanding that we deal with multidimensional challenges. Old school utility champs could do one or two interesting things, but these days utility champs are being asked to do combinations of things, either today or in the future.

    High energy resistance *and* power sting *and* slow *and* petrify *and* enhanced regeneration reversal is not common. And the point to these buffs isn't to make the champs the best at everything, but useful at a lot of things. Even if there are champs that could do individual things better, even if there are champs that could do *everything* better (which I don't think is the case here), how many players have those champs? If you pull YJ and you don't have those champs, YJ will be a huge benefit to you. If you have all the champs already, this buff won't make your roster better, but then again if you have all the other champs already the devs aren't supposed to be making your roster better.
  • GuytennisGuytennis Posts: 143 ★★
    Can someone highlight for me which maps and/or bosses we think his new kit would be beneficial for in Act 7.
  • Realm_Of_RahRealm_Of_Rah Posts: 430 ★★★
    Guytennis said:

    Can someone highlight for me which maps and/or bosses we think his new kit would be beneficial for in Act 7.

    There's a power sting lane somewhere in Act 7, aside from that any node that benefits science attackers
  • GuytennisGuytennis Posts: 143 ★★

    Guytennis said:

    Can someone highlight for me which maps and/or bosses we think his new kit would be beneficial for in Act 7.

    There's a power sting lane somewhere in Act 7, aside from that any node that benefits science attackers
    I’m not asking about science champs. I’m focusing on his new kit.
  • GuytennisGuytennis Posts: 143 ★★
    @Zurafa for context, where is that Maw?
  • GuytennisGuytennis Posts: 143 ★★

    That’s slightly misleading fight. @Zurafa
  • jbmastjbmast Posts: 14
    There's still something no one talks about and it's the fact that YJ increases potency of any debuff. There's a lot of nodes that can interact with that whether you're attacking or YJ is a defender.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 3,986 ★★★★★
    Something I don't get about his Slow Debuff...

    She-Hulk: Science Class, Slow Debuff Off Heavy, Lasts 12 Seconds.

    Spider-Gwen: Science Class, Slow Debuff Off Heavy, Lasts 15-18 Seconds.

    Yellow Jacket: Science Class, Slow Debuff Off Heavy, Lasts 10 Seconds, Costs 10 Core Charge.

    See what I'm getting at, was the 10 Core Charge Cost Really necessary for One Of the Shortest Slow Debuffs on not only other Heavy Science Champions but any Champion? (Also Red Guardian's another Science but his Slow is on his Sp1, also lasts 12 Seconds.)

    Not saying he's bad or anything, don't be putting words in my mouth, but that Charge Cost just seems Really Unnecessary. Unless it's used to keep him on the Edge from Overheating, haven't had the chance to use him yet just studying the Abilities.
This discussion has been closed.