15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

Comments

Kabam Miike

Indrick781 wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

2 changes made to war system, both involved buffs to nodes.

After the 1st time you buffed nodes pages among pages were argued that we needed changes to the scoring system. Please point out the changes you made that were from the majority feedback to show us you are listening.

The node changes were directly linked to players being worried that their rosters were no longer useful in Alliance Wars because of Diversity. This pointed to a problem where the Map was not providing enough of a challenge, so that Defender Diversity was making the decisions on who won, and not acting as the tie breaker.

As we said, we're still looking into more revisions that may need to be made after, but this was based on your guys feedback.

They still aren't. If both teams 100% a map, which they usually will because defender kills don't matter, then the higher alliance with the wider roster will always win. It's not a tie breaker. It's a "Our alliance is matched with someone 3m higher than us. We're getting the same rewards this map whether or not we 100% this so why bother?" If you were listening to your feedback you'd bring back defender kills like we've been saying since this horrible map was introduced.

This is why we're bringing more difficulty back to Alliance Wars maps. The double 100% should not be a common thing. It's meant to be a rarity, and in that case is where Defender Diversity come in.

Qwerty

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Raganator wrote: »

You still make zero sense. Don't want people to feel discourage so take away defender kills, so just make nodes harder to discourage people. Stupid.

The "discouraged" comment is surrounding the idea of not taking on a fight for the sake of not giving the other Alliance Points. This causes people to make the choice to just not fight. Not fighting in a war should never be the optimal strategy.

These changes are being made to move some of the emphasis away from Defender Diversity, and back on to making educated choices with your Defender placement. Before jumping to "This won't work", give the map a couple runs through. This will also help us gather more data on any further adjustments that might need to be made.

the entire system discourages the entire alliance from trying since it's decided from the beginning. buff the **** out of these nodes and bring back defender kill points. it was asinine to remove that in the first place.

hurricant

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Indrick781 wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

2 changes made to war system, both involved buffs to nodes.

After the 1st time you buffed nodes pages among pages were argued that we needed changes to the scoring system. Please point out the changes you made that were from the majority feedback to show us you are listening.

The node changes were directly linked to players being worried that their rosters were no longer useful in Alliance Wars because of Diversity. This pointed to a problem where the Map was not providing enough of a challenge, so that Defender Diversity was making the decisions on who won, and not acting as the tie breaker.

As we said, we're still looking into more revisions that may need to be made after, but this was based on your guys feedback.

They still aren't. If both teams 100% a map, which they usually will because defender kills don't matter, then the higher alliance with the wider roster will always win. It's not a tie breaker. It's a "Our alliance is matched with someone 3m higher than us. We're getting the same rewards this map whether or not we 100% this so why bother?" If you were listening to your feedback you'd bring back defender kills like we've been saying since this horrible map was introduced.

This is why we're bringing more difficulty back to Alliance Wars maps. The double 100% should not be a common thing. It's meant to be a rarity, and in that case is where Defender Diversity come in.

You're bringing back difficulty because sales have probably gone down after people join a war and see they have no chance of winning when the other team's rating is 1-2 million points higher.

Raganator

Kabam Miike wrote: »

The double 100% should not be a common thing. It's meant to be a rarity.[/color]

You mean...like the old AW?

Viper1987

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Raganator wrote: »

You still make zero sense. Don't want people to feel discourage so take away defender kills, so just make nodes harder to discourage people. Stupid.

The "discouraged" comment is surrounding the idea of not taking on a fight for the sake of not giving the other Alliance Points. This causes people to make the choice to just not fight. Not fighting in a war should never be the optimal strategy.

These changes are being made to move some of the emphasis away from Defender Diversity, and back on to making educated choices with your Defender placement. Before jumping to "This won't work", give the map a couple runs through. This will also help us gather more data on any further adjustments that might need to be made.

You guys still aren't listening! It doesn't matter how hard you make it. The whales and big spenders will always win. Not having defender kills completely defeats the purpose of war. Listen to the players who actually play this game constantly and who actually know the game. When an alliance goes into a war against an alliance that has 1M+ rating more than them, there is ZERO incentive to even do war. That only hurts your bottom line (not to mention the players, but you couldn't care less about them). People are spending less because there is absolutely no reason to spend just to lose and get 100 shards. By the way, when is the AW reward revamp coming? Good lord, listen to us for a change. Nobody likes this new system. Just add defender kills back as points and everyone is happy. It's that simple.

Jaffacaked

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Indrick781 wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

2 changes made to war system, both involved buffs to nodes.

After the 1st time you buffed nodes pages among pages were argued that we needed changes to the scoring system. Please point out the changes you made that were from the majority feedback to show us you are listening.

The node changes were directly linked to players being worried that their rosters were no longer useful in Alliance Wars because of Diversity. This pointed to a problem where the Map was not providing enough of a challenge, so that Defender Diversity was making the decisions on who won, and not acting as the tie breaker.

As we said, we're still looking into more revisions that may need to be made after, but this was based on your guys feedback.

They still aren't. If both teams 100% a map, which they usually will because defender kills don't matter, then the higher alliance with the wider roster will always win. It's not a tie breaker. It's a "Our alliance is matched with someone 3m higher than us. We're getting the same rewards this map whether or not we 100% this so why bother?" If you were listening to your feedback you'd bring back defender kills like we've been saying since this horrible map was introduced.

This is why we're bringing more difficulty back to Alliance Wars maps. The double 100% should not be a common thing. It's meant to be a rarity, and in that case is where Defender Diversity come in.

Defender diversity without defender kills is just flawed. Don't you guys care that you have taken all the fun out of war. Honestly If war stays like this am done with the game

Qwerty

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Indrick781 wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

2 changes made to war system, both involved buffs to nodes.

After the 1st time you buffed nodes pages among pages were argued that we needed changes to the scoring system. Please point out the changes you made that were from the majority feedback to show us you are listening.

The node changes were directly linked to players being worried that their rosters were no longer useful in Alliance Wars because of Diversity. This pointed to a problem where the Map was not providing enough of a challenge, so that Defender Diversity was making the decisions on who won, and not acting as the tie breaker.

As we said, we're still looking into more revisions that may need to be made after, but this was based on your guys feedback.

They still aren't. If both teams 100% a map, which they usually will because defender kills don't matter, then the higher alliance with the wider roster will always win. It's not a tie breaker. It's a "Our alliance is matched with someone 3m higher than us. We're getting the same rewards this map whether or not we 100% this so why bother?" If you were listening to your feedback you'd bring back defender kills like we've been saying since this horrible map was introduced.

This is why we're bringing more difficulty back to Alliance Wars maps. The double 100% should not be a common thing. It's meant to be a rarity, and in that case is where Defender Diversity come in.

let's be honest. this whole "discouragement" surrounding defender kills is a very thinly veiled attempt at trying to spin this whole thing. quite literally NOBODY is buying that as the real reason for the removal of defender kills as it simply makes no sense in the grand scheme of AW.

NMEONES

Kabam Miike wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

2 changes made to war system, both involved buffs to nodes.

After the 1st time you buffed nodes pages among pages were argued that we needed changes to the scoring system. Please point out the changes you made that were from the majority feedback to show us you are listening.

The node changes were directly linked to players being worried that their rosters were no longer useful in Alliance Wars because of Diversity. This pointed to a problem where the Map was not providing enough of a challenge, so that Defender Diversity was making the decisions on who won, and not acting as the tie breaker.

As we said, we're still looking into more revisions that may need to be made after, but this was based on your guys feedback.

I'm sorry @Kabam Miike but your wrong. This is not based on our feedback and if you think it is, we have a bigger issue then we first thought. You just keep making the nodes harder chances nothing. People will still place 150 diverse defenders and whoever has higher defender rating will win. You guys are taking the hard way around things and saying it's right. If you truly listened to us and made an update to alliance war based on our feedback, then there would be another determining factor of who wins a war besides diversity and defender rating. Seriously though, what's the problem with adding defender kills? I'm sure everyone much rather have defender kills rather then bane or spite. There NEEDS to be another scoring factor, based on actual skill, to determine who wins the war.. It's incredible to me that you guys belive this is the best solution based on feedback from us... once again, thanks for destroying the best part of your game... you won't receive one unit from me for AW.

R4GE

What am I missing here?

While the community screams to bring back defender kills you tell us its not what we want? Please make sense of that for all of us.

Skellington

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Raganator wrote: »

You still make zero sense. Don't want people to feel discourage so take away defender kills, so just make nodes harder to discourage people. Stupid.

Before jumping to "This won't work", give the map a couple runs through. This will also help us gather more data on any further adjustments that might need to be made.

We've already tested this situation two times already and nothing has changed. That's the exact reason why everyone's frustrated; we already know how this plays out and we have to wait another 2-3 weeks for you guys to come up with another "solution" that you guys came up by "listening" to the players when all we are asking for is bring Defender Kills back.

hurricant

R4GE wrote: »

What am I missing here?

While the community screams to bring back defender kills you tell us its not what we want? Please make sense of that for all of us.

But they are making changes based on our feedback. Right, guys? Right?

Feedback: Bring back defender kills. If there are no defender kills, then it doesn't matter where people place champs on defense. Every team will buy their way through the nodes. Nothing will stop them. If you bring back defender kills, people will think about where to place defenders because it will matter where defenders are placed. How is this difficult to understand.

GbSarkar

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Indrick781 wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

2 changes made to war system, both involved buffs to nodes.

After the 1st time you buffed nodes pages among pages were argued that we needed changes to the scoring system. Please point out the changes you made that were from the majority feedback to show us you are listening.

The node changes were directly linked to players being worried that their rosters were no longer useful in Alliance Wars because of Diversity. This pointed to a problem where the Map was not providing enough of a challenge, so that Defender Diversity was making the decisions on who won, and not acting as the tie breaker.

As we said, we're still looking into more revisions that may need to be made after, but this was based on your guys feedback.

They still aren't. If both teams 100% a map, which they usually will because defender kills don't matter, then the higher alliance with the wider roster will always win. It's not a tie breaker. It's a "Our alliance is matched with someone 3m higher than us. We're getting the same rewards this map whether or not we 100% this so why bother?" If you were listening to your feedback you'd bring back defender kills like we've been saying since this horrible map was introduced.

This is why we're bringing more difficulty back to Alliance Wars maps. The double 100% should not be a common thing. It's meant to be a rarity, and in that case is where Defender Diversity come in.

Bruh, most of the new nodes you slapped on were on paths that are REQUIRED to finish the minibosses and boss. Those paths WILL be explored no matter what. How tf is this supposed to prevent 100% exploration?

Raganator

Well, let's be honest, they do have one person in this thread who continually states that defenders kills are bad...so they are listening to someone.

RehctansBew

So we brought back a bunch of dumb noded champs to increase the deaths and unit spend. Well done. But you haven't listen to one comment in this entire thread about bringing back defender kills. It's becoming insulting and a legitimate concern to many players. Once again you fail to take player feed back that you claim to get. Can you post to one player suggesting these money grab nodes be added? On the other hand we can show 1190 post asking for Defender kills to be reinstated.

Viper1987

Skellington wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Raganator wrote: »

You still make zero sense. Don't want people to feel discourage so take away defender kills, so just make nodes harder to discourage people. Stupid.

Before jumping to "This won't work", give the map a couple runs through. This will also help us gather more data on any further adjustments that might need to be made.

We've already tested this situation two times already and nothing has changed. That's the exact reason why everyone's frustrated; we already know how this plays out and we have to wait another 2-3 weeks for you guys to come up with another "solution" that you guys came up by "listening" to the players when all we are asking for is bring Defender Kills back.

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better. If anything, these new nodes will make us want to throw our phones more and not want to play at all. Might just start skipping war altogether until 2020 when they finally decide what works.

bradshaw1984

Kabam, you never cease to amaze me with your ability to brazenly pass off something as our idea, at least in part due to our feedback, whilst completely ignoring 99% of ACTUAL community feedback because it doesn’t fit the narrative/approach that you’re pedalling.

I’m in a 14m alliance, and the last 3 wars we’ve known if we won or lost after 1 look at our opponent or after briefly discussing each other’s defender rating to avoid wasting resources.

Diversity as a determining factor is great, it encourages ppl not to place the same 5 champs as nauseum, but how about rewarding skill over rating, isn’t that the essence of competition?

You say making the nodes harder is a solution for now, funny how this solution will mean more resources needed for the individual. You poo-poo bringing back defender kills because it discourages ppl from fighting, I say it encourages ppl to fight skillfully or with more thought beforehand. God forbid skill be a determining factor in this game though.

xtremegamer

Kabam Miike wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

2 changes made to war system, both involved buffs to nodes.

After the 1st time you buffed nodes pages among pages were argued that we needed changes to the scoring system. Please point out the changes you made that were from the majority feedback to show us you are listening.

The node changes were directly linked to players being worried that their rosters were no longer useful in Alliance Wars because of Diversity. This pointed to a problem where the Map was not providing enough of a challenge, so that Defender Diversity was making the decisions on who won, and not acting as the tie breaker.

As we said, we're still looking into more revisions that may need to be made after, but this was based on your guys feedback.

add all or nothing, spite and bane on every node please this will make sense

SubTypical

Kabam Miike wrote: »

R4GE wrote: »

2 changes made to war system, both involved buffs to nodes.

After the 1st time you buffed nodes pages among pages were argued that we needed changes to the scoring system. Please point out the changes you made that were from the majority feedback to show us you are listening.

The node changes were directly linked to players being worried that their rosters were no longer useful in Alliance Wars because of Diversity. This pointed to a problem where the Map was not providing enough of a challenge, so that Defender Diversity was making the decisions on who won, and not acting as the tie breaker.

As we said, we're still looking into more revisions that may need to be made after, but this was based on your guys feedback.

#ToneDeaf

RandomlyGenerated

My last ditch effort before I completely give up on war. And the game. Defender kills. Please...stop pretending you don’t see the problem...

unknown

This content has been removed.

Voluntaris

How about Kabam bring an actual DEVELOPER on the forums to discuss, as something clearly is being lost in translation.

#BringBackDefenderKillPoints

unknown

This content has been removed.

Donyb

Teams will both require 100 cuz top allys REQUIRE it if there’s ever a reason for those allys to not 100 they will boot said member so you might as well make al

CooKak

so you made it where alliances will FORCE summoners to swap masteries to max PI builds to place defense AND make us spend more on offense? I can't imagine a summoner worth his/her salt that would want to do that every war. common thread = spend more for less fun. Here's a suggestion: Make mastery respec free and bring back defender kills. Seriously? Bane, Flare, Spite, Masochism? What part of THAT sounds like it's coming from the players? It was a gross misunderstanding that you thought we wanted harder OFFENSIVE nodes because our DEFENSIVE rosters were neutered.

GbSarkar

I think I finally understand Kabam's plans. They will keep adding harder bs nodes untill the map becomes as ridiculous as S1 (like hurricant stated—bane and spite will be the new thorns and slashed tires). Then they will "finally" come to their senses and introduce defender kills and keep the map difficulty same. So now you have a map worse than S1 and defender kills. Have fun buying those health pots!

unknown

This content has been removed.

Bianco

You told us when you make new aw it will be easier and delete all hard nodes like thorns, all or nothing, slashed tires etc and now you bring new great nodes like masochism, bane, sprite and all fu****g **** to aw... You know what? Bring back old aw with old nodes and old system, with defender kill points and GET THE **** AWAY FROM THIS

nope

This thread is a waste of time and energy. They already knew what they wanted to do. The only "iterative" process was slowly easing us into their final vision of war... Which we have zero input on. This thread is only here to make you feel like someone cares what you say and to allow it to get big enough that most ppl won't spend time reading it.

If there was actually any testing or monitoring... This so-called iterative process would actually be more than forcing us to rely on diversity/defender rating and just tossing in some act 5 nodes. Trying to act like any testing/monitoring has been done is asinine.

Just don't spend any resource at all on war and let the chips fall where they may. It's literally the only voice you have as a player at this point. You have as much chance of getting your concerns dealt with on this forum as you do when dealing with support.

R4GE

nope wrote: »

This thread is a waste of time and energy. They already knew what they wanted to do. The only "iterative" process was slowly easing us into their final vision of war... Which we have zero input on. This thread is only here to make you feel like someone cares what you say and to allow it to get big enough that most ppl won't spend time reading it.

If there was actually any testing or monitoring... This so-called iterative process would actually be more than forcing us to rely on diversity/defender rating and just tossing in some act 5 nodes. Trying to act like any testing/monitoring has been done is asinine.

Just don't spend any resource at all on war and let the chips fall where they may. It's literally the only voice you have as a player at this point. You have as much chance of getting your concerns dealt with on this forum as you do when dealing with support.

^This

080808

This update is so ridiculous. Again in higher tier wars maps will all be 100% cleared. Whats the end game with these updates?? Continue to make nodes increasingly harder until the item cap limit is a problem? This is just pay to win. At least with the easier maps, no items need to be used for the war to be decided by defender rating. Im really disappointed this is all Kabam has come up with.