Immortal Abom Lionheart Broken Interaction Path 1 AW

tafre · February 2021

First of all I will share the node below so everybody can see the description.

As the node states, whenever healing is reduced or reversed by a debuff the potency of the regens increases and the attacker gets passive degen. Immortal Abom or ibom, on this node is an extremely niche fight. First of all you would need a poison immune because of his base kit. On top of that, ibom inflicts self poisons and since there is Lionheart, he degens you each time a self poison is applied on him. Furthermore, an awakened ibom starts off with 3 self poisons so you degen from the start and ibom has 300% more potent regen including willpower healing and buffet.

The only 2 reliable counters I can think of are Quake and Gulk. Maybe AA with good neuro RNG, Ghost with tech boosts+Hood and Warlock with very slow parry heavy gameplay and heavy boosts since the degen from lionheart is unavoidable. On top of that there is buffet to consider as well. Feel free to add more counters if you can think of more.

So my question is this: Why does such a niche fight exist? The poison debuff/Lionheart interaction should be reviewed to make this a fair fight otherwise it is too much to consider for a single fight. The degen is pretty much unavoidable and deals around 20% so you would die in around 50 hits just from the self inflict poison applying and causing unavoidable degen from Lionheart.

*** I feel the need to add this final disclaimer, yes the counters I wrote can do this fight with good gameplay but the requirements are far too steep to have only a few counters.

SpideyFunko · February 2021

jesus that looks horrible

pseudosane · February 2021

Yeah it is a horrible fight. Omega and rulk are also options but rulk gets to be too slow. G99 is also an option (has to be ramped).
Quake is slow because those poisons give him physical resistance.

danielmath · February 2021

won't he be unable to trigger the poisons against quake since you're not hitting him?

Campo4 · February 2021

I agree - broken is the only way I can describe it. Lionheart was created before there was a champion that puts non-damaging poisons on himself in his base kit and must be reviewed!

Every 10 hits a new self-inflicted poison applies to iBom causing passive degen to the attacker. Really limits conventional options.

The constant 300% heal means one buffet proc is 45% of his modified health back instantly.

Also, when quaking, the free 300% willpower heal means you are barely doing damage unless you are boosted.

Champions placed there with suicides get the 300% willpower heal as well, however the poison at least does damage on them, whereas iBom takes no poison damage, so it's just a free heal, and then quake's stuns and concussions cause even more heal (a 5/65 is healing for 800+ per tick when concussions, stuns, and poisons are on during her aftershock). Despair 3/3 doesn't come into play that much because the heal is already 300% so despair barely makes a dent.

And as Tafre mentioned the only heal block champion that can counter degen is Ghulk with face me. AA, if your neuros don't stay on all match, AA will either be poisoned to death or degened to death.

Campo4 · February 2021

danielmath said:
won't he be unable to trigger the poisons against quake since you're not hitting him?

He won't gain any more, but he starts with 3 poisons which provide a degen proc at start of fight, and 300% heal for entire fight

Wicket329 · February 2021

Don’t know how this interaction would work, but how about AA? The regen is blocked by a passive once you get the neurotoxins in place, plus you’ll reduce his ability accuracy to mitigate poisons being placed on you. Make those self-poisons work against him and consume them by turning them into neurotoxins, could be very effective.

EDIT: just reread and noticed AA was mentioned. But it’s less dependent on RNG since ibom has poisons in place for you to work with from the start.

Wicket329 · February 2021

tafre said:

Wicket329 said:
Don’t know how this interaction would work, but how about AA? The regen is blocked by a passive once you get the neurotoxins in place, plus you’ll reduce his ability accuracy to mitigate poisons being placed on you. Make those self-poisons work against him and consume them by turning them into neurotoxins, could be very effective.

EDIT: just reread and noticed AA was mentioned. But it’s less dependent on RNG since ibom has poisons in place for you to work with from the start.
Yes but if RNG fails you, you would die because of the unavoidable degen from Lionheart because you also apply poison debuffs with AA. Sure he would work but like I said before it is not the point I am trying to make, the interaction is broken because you get dealt unavoidable degen damage and 300% more potent healing the entire fight.

No, because the opponent is passively heal blocked by a single neurotoxin. If I understand the interaction properly, the passives will lock it at 0% and nothing else will mess with it. So placing additional poisons shouldn’t actually alter the regen rate and therefore won’t trigger the punitive side of Lionheart. Additionally, 300% regen of 0 is still 0.

This is a top tier alliance war fight. The nodes are supposed to require niche counters. I agree that this one is particularly punitive and stuff like this is why I’m sitting this season out, but there are going to be interactions like this at that level.

Campo4 · February 2021

Wicket329 said:

tafre said:

Wicket329 said:
Don’t know how this interaction would work, but how about AA? The regen is blocked by a passive once you get the neurotoxins in place, plus you’ll reduce his ability accuracy to mitigate poisons being placed on you. Make those self-poisons work against him and consume them by turning them into neurotoxins, could be very effective.

EDIT: just reread and noticed AA was mentioned. But it’s less dependent on RNG since ibom has poisons in place for you to work with from the start.
Yes but if RNG fails you, you would die because of the unavoidable degen from Lionheart because you also apply poison debuffs with AA. Sure he would work but like I said before it is not the point I am trying to make, the interaction is broken because you get dealt unavoidable degen damage and 300% more potent healing the entire fight.
No, because the opponent is passively heal blocked by a single neurotoxin. If I understand the interaction properly, the passives will lock it at 0% and nothing else will mess with it. So placing additional poisons shouldn’t actually alter the regen rate and therefore won’t trigger the punitive side of Lionheart. Additionally, 300% regen of 0 is still 0.

This is a top tier alliance war fight. The nodes are supposed to require niche counters. I agree that this one is particularly punitive and stuff like this is why I’m sitting this season out, but there are going to be interactions like this at that level.

Yeah, this isn’t about complaining that difficulty of expert war map is too steep. The point is non damaging self inflicted poison and lionheart needs to be looked at.

Does anyone have footage of AA here vs ibom? I have used AA on other lionheart opponents. If neuros fall off while baiting specials and you have to start over you will probably die. You can get poisoned yourself in addition to the degen

Campo4 · February 2021

Haha I see this got moved to "strategy and tips" so I don't think anyone is going to address this node

KerayZ · February 2021

Anytime Kabam creates an interaction that is unavoidable damage it needs to be addressed. Doesn't matter if there is a counter or not its just a BS combination.