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Thoughts on AAR affecting triggers that benefit the attacker?

2

Comments

  • Options
    Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    HI_guys said:

    xNig said:

    Speeds80 said:

    We understand why it’s happening, the point I believe is that it’s counterintuitive, seems like clunky design designing nodes that often seem to be mostly useful for aar champs, then making their aar hinder the benefits of the node

    Disagree though.

    For example, the Science poison node in Cav EQ.

    Getting inflicted with Poison is a bad thing, in most cases if you’re not poison immune. If AAR were to reduce it, it will be beneficial for the attacker to not get poisoned.

    However, if I were to run She Hulk with Warlock/OGV synergy, the poison becomes beneficial if I were to be inflicted with it. So with that in mind, a node can work both ways, so having AAR reduce everything makes more sense.
    But there clearly are nodes that cannot be affected by AAR.
    Yeah, and what about it?
  • Options
    xNigxNig Posts: 7,282 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    HI_guys said:

    xNig said:

    Speeds80 said:

    We understand why it’s happening, the point I believe is that it’s counterintuitive, seems like clunky design designing nodes that often seem to be mostly useful for aar champs, then making their aar hinder the benefits of the node

    Disagree though.

    For example, the Science poison node in Cav EQ.

    Getting inflicted with Poison is a bad thing, in most cases if you’re not poison immune. If AAR were to reduce it, it will be beneficial for the attacker to not get poisoned.

    However, if I were to run She Hulk with Warlock/OGV synergy, the poison becomes beneficial if I were to be inflicted with it. So with that in mind, a node can work both ways, so having AAR reduce everything makes more sense.
    But there clearly are nodes that cannot be affected by AAR.
    Like I mentioned before, it depends on whether the node is activated upon “fight start” or “conditions fulfilled”.

    If it’s activated at fight start, only inherent AAR (Eg Blade’s Danger Sense) can turn it off. This is also why Magneto’s magnetized has an application lag, to prevent him from bypassing nodes he wasn’t suppose to bypass (Eg a metal defender on a poison node).
  • Options
    Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    HI_guys said:

    HI_guys said:

    xNig said:

    Speeds80 said:

    We understand why it’s happening, the point I believe is that it’s counterintuitive, seems like clunky design designing nodes that often seem to be mostly useful for aar champs, then making their aar hinder the benefits of the node

    Disagree though.

    For example, the Science poison node in Cav EQ.

    Getting inflicted with Poison is a bad thing, in most cases if you’re not poison immune. If AAR were to reduce it, it will be beneficial for the attacker to not get poisoned.

    However, if I were to run She Hulk with Warlock/OGV synergy, the poison becomes beneficial if I were to be inflicted with it. So with that in mind, a node can work both ways, so having AAR reduce everything makes more sense.
    But there clearly are nodes that cannot be affected by AAR.
    Yeah, and what about it?
    Yeah
    Lol
  • Options
    Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    HI_guys said:

    xNig said:

    HI_guys said:

    xNig said:

    Speeds80 said:

    We understand why it’s happening, the point I believe is that it’s counterintuitive, seems like clunky design designing nodes that often seem to be mostly useful for aar champs, then making their aar hinder the benefits of the node

    Disagree though.

    For example, the Science poison node in Cav EQ.

    Getting inflicted with Poison is a bad thing, in most cases if you’re not poison immune. If AAR were to reduce it, it will be beneficial for the attacker to not get poisoned.

    However, if I were to run She Hulk with Warlock/OGV synergy, the poison becomes beneficial if I were to be inflicted with it. So with that in mind, a node can work both ways, so having AAR reduce everything makes more sense.
    But there clearly are nodes that cannot be affected by AAR.
    Like I mentioned before, it depends on whether the node is activated upon “fight start” or “conditions fulfilled”.

    If it’s activated at fight start, only inherent AAR (Eg Blade’s Danger Sense) can turn it off. This is also why Magneto’s magnetized has an application lag, to prevent him from bypassing nodes he wasn’t suppose to bypass (Eg a metal defender on a poison node).
    Not really rage cannot be prevented but safeguard can be. Even though both are the same with different values. But it makes sense that Kabam does not want people bypassing the node and play without it.

    Similarly the nodes that give you furies in cav eq and those in 7.1 like enervating opponent with debuffs should be immune to AAR so that they make sense design wise and do their intention
    Both are not the same. One grants Furies and the other doesn't.
  • Options
    Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    HI_guys said:

    HI_guys said:

    xNig said:

    HI_guys said:

    xNig said:

    Speeds80 said:

    We understand why it’s happening, the point I believe is that it’s counterintuitive, seems like clunky design designing nodes that often seem to be mostly useful for aar champs, then making their aar hinder the benefits of the node

    Disagree though.

    For example, the Science poison node in Cav EQ.

    Getting inflicted with Poison is a bad thing, in most cases if you’re not poison immune. If AAR were to reduce it, it will be beneficial for the attacker to not get poisoned.

    However, if I were to run She Hulk with Warlock/OGV synergy, the poison becomes beneficial if I were to be inflicted with it. So with that in mind, a node can work both ways, so having AAR reduce everything makes more sense.
    But there clearly are nodes that cannot be affected by AAR.
    Like I mentioned before, it depends on whether the node is activated upon “fight start” or “conditions fulfilled”.

    If it’s activated at fight start, only inherent AAR (Eg Blade’s Danger Sense) can turn it off. This is also why Magneto’s magnetized has an application lag, to prevent him from bypassing nodes he wasn’t suppose to bypass (Eg a metal defender on a poison node).
    Not really rage cannot be prevented but safeguard can be. Even though both are the same with different values. But it makes sense that Kabam does not want people bypassing the node and play without it.

    Similarly the nodes that give you furies in cav eq and those in 7.1 like enervating opponent with debuffs should be immune to AAR so that they make sense design wise and do their intention
    Both are not the same. One grants Furies and the other doesn't.
    Wait for real? Never gained furies with rage before
    Can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

    If not:
  • Options
    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    Look, I'd be lying if I said I don't want beneficial nodes to be AAR immune, but who's to say what nodes are even beneficial or not? Like Coward? Is that beneficial or harmful? How about Icarus? Combo Party? Even Power Shield?

    Sure, we could hope that beneficial nodes don't get effected by AAR all day long but this is what makes the most sense. The choice boils down to either no nodes being AAR immune or all of them imo. And I guarantee you prefer the former. Which makes sense anyways.
  • Options
    ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 5,626 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    HI_guys said:

    Etjama said:

    Look, I'd be lying if I said I don't want beneficial nodes to be AAR immune, but who's to say what nodes are even beneficial or not? Like Coward? Is that beneficial or harmful? How about Icarus? Combo Party? Even Power Shield?

    Sure, we could hope that beneficial nodes don't get effected by AAR all day long but this is what makes the most sense. The choice boils down to either no nodes being AAR immune or all of them imo. And I guarantee you prefer the former. Which makes sense anyways.

    Of the nodes you mentioned itslef, most are susceptible to aar and some like coward a d power shield are not.

    Class Nodes created specifically for Cav eq should be immune to AAR.
    Why should they be immune?

    There's no rule or precedent for them to be.
  • Options
    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    edited February 2021
    It makes sense
    HI_guys said:

    Etjama said:

    Look, I'd be lying if I said I don't want beneficial nodes to be AAR immune, but who's to say what nodes are even beneficial or not? Like Coward? Is that beneficial or harmful? How about Icarus? Combo Party? Even Power Shield?

    Sure, we could hope that beneficial nodes don't get effected by AAR all day long but this is what makes the most sense. The choice boils down to either no nodes being AAR immune or all of them imo. And I guarantee you prefer the former. Which makes sense anyways.

    Of the nodes you mentioned itslef, most are susceptible to aar and some like coward a d power shield are not.

    Class Nodes created specifically for Cav eq should be immune to AAR.
    I really hate responding like this, trust me. But says you. Why should Cav nodes be immune to AAR? Just why? They should work like all other nodes. It's literally just something that you want so you're saying it should be that way.
  • Options
    GreanGrean Posts: 1,397 ★★★★
    It makes sense
    if nodes that make defenders hard are affected by aar, why shouldn't nodes that benefit u be affected too?
  • Options
    The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,783 ★★★★★
    edited February 2021
    It makes sense
    HI_guys said:

    Etjama said:

    HI_guys said:

    Etjama said:

    Look, I'd be lying if I said I don't want beneficial nodes to be AAR immune, but who's to say what nodes are even beneficial or not? Like Coward? Is that beneficial or harmful? How about Icarus? Combo Party? Even Power Shield?

    Sure, we could hope that beneficial nodes don't get effected by AAR all day long but this is what makes the most sense. The choice boils down to either no nodes being AAR immune or all of them imo. And I guarantee you prefer the former. Which makes sense anyways.

    Of the nodes you mentioned itslef, most are susceptible to aar and some like coward a d power shield are not.

    Class Nodes created specifically for Cav eq should be immune to AAR.
    I really hate responding like this, trust me. But says you. Why should Cav nodes be immune to AAR? Just why? They should work like all other nodes. It's literally just something that you want so you're saying it should be that way.
    Because the whole point of their existence is to help our champs and there was no reason for it to not be so.

    And it's not like there are no nodes immune to AAR. The weakness removing node in science chapter is immune to AAR. Nodes like do you bleed , acid wash, thunderstruck rage are all immune to AAR. Why?

    So you (not you) cant pretend like this is some revolutionary new idea . It has precedent.
    Those are active from the start of the fight though and not actual abilities that have a chance to trigger.
    Edit: Plus by that logic, the whole point of punishing nodes is to punish you. There's no reason for it not to.
  • Options
    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    HI_guys said:

    Etjama said:

    HI_guys said:

    Etjama said:

    Look, I'd be lying if I said I don't want beneficial nodes to be AAR immune, but who's to say what nodes are even beneficial or not? Like Coward? Is that beneficial or harmful? How about Icarus? Combo Party? Even Power Shield?

    Sure, we could hope that beneficial nodes don't get effected by AAR all day long but this is what makes the most sense. The choice boils down to either no nodes being AAR immune or all of them imo. And I guarantee you prefer the former. Which makes sense anyways.

    Of the nodes you mentioned itslef, most are susceptible to aar and some like coward a d power shield are not.

    Class Nodes created specifically for Cav eq should be immune to AAR.
    I really hate responding like this, trust me. But says you. Why should Cav nodes be immune to AAR? Just why? They should work like all other nodes. It's literally just something that you want so you're saying it should be that way.
    Because the whole point of their existence is to help our champs and there was no reason for it to not be so.

    And it's not like there are no nodes immune to AAR. The weakness removing node in science chapter is immune to AAR. Nodes like do you bleed , acid wash, thunderstruck rage are all immune to AAR. Why?

    So you (not you) cant pretend like this is some revolutionary new idea . It has precedent.
    The majority of nodes are susceptible to AAR. Including ones that people consider to be beneficial. Cav nodes shouldnt be thrown in with the minority just cause people want them to.
  • Options
    Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    Haji_Saab said:

    I understand how these nodes work. But they shouldn't.

    The beneficial part should be separately noded on us, and not the enemy. It's a lazy design.

    And how are you supposed to do that?
  • Options
    The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,783 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    Etjama said:

    HI_guys said:

    Etjama said:

    HI_guys said:

    Etjama said:

    Look, I'd be lying if I said I don't want beneficial nodes to be AAR immune, but who's to say what nodes are even beneficial or not? Like Coward? Is that beneficial or harmful? How about Icarus? Combo Party? Even Power Shield?

    Sure, we could hope that beneficial nodes don't get effected by AAR all day long but this is what makes the most sense. The choice boils down to either no nodes being AAR immune or all of them imo. And I guarantee you prefer the former. Which makes sense anyways.

    Of the nodes you mentioned itslef, most are susceptible to aar and some like coward a d power shield are not.

    Class Nodes created specifically for Cav eq should be immune to AAR.
    I really hate responding like this, trust me. But says you. Why should Cav nodes be immune to AAR? Just why? They should work like all other nodes. It's literally just something that you want so you're saying it should be that way.
    Because the whole point of their existence is to help our champs and there was no reason for it to not be so.

    And it's not like there are no nodes immune to AAR. The weakness removing node in science chapter is immune to AAR. Nodes like do you bleed , acid wash, thunderstruck rage are all immune to AAR. Why?

    So you (not you) cant pretend like this is some revolutionary new idea . It has precedent.
    The majority of nodes are susceptible to AAR. Including ones that people consider to be beneficial. Cav nodes shouldnt be thrown in with the minority just cause people want them to.
    Exactly. Plus as of now, there isn't enough volume of player friendly nodes so sooner or later there will be nodes unaffected by AAR. And off the top of my head, life transfer for example is a player friendly node unaffected by AAR.
  • Options
    ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 5,626 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    Haji_Saab said:

    Grean said:

    if nodes that make defenders hard are affected by aar, why shouldn't nodes that benefit u be affected too?

    It's MY ability to turn YOUR abilities off. Turning YOUR ability off should not stop me from getting MY fury/heal etc.

    This is my logical problem. Why are enemy abilities giving me positive effects? The positive effects should be coded on ME. This is purely a coding problem at the moment and I hope Kabam can solve it.
    It's the enemies ability to give you that benefit. You shut off that ability with AAR. It's not your ability that is giving you benefit.
  • Options
    Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    Haji_Saab said:

    Grean said:

    if nodes that make defenders hard are affected by aar, why shouldn't nodes that benefit u be affected too?

    It's MY ability to turn YOUR abilities off. Turning YOUR ability off should not stop me from getting MY fury/heal etc.

    This is my logical problem. Why are enemy abilities giving me positive effects? The positive effects should be coded on ME. This is purely a coding problem at the moment and I hope Kabam can solve it.
    But it's MY ability to give you YOUR fury/heal/etc.
  • Options
    altavistaaltavista Posts: 1,331 ★★★★
    It makes sense
    Matador makes sense since it is applied to the defender, and the trigger is the defender (Defender activates special -> you get power).

    Other things make less sense - with previous Mutant Cavalier nodes, Omega Red's spores that prevent the defender from shrugging/purifying was instead block OR's ability to shrug and benefit from the node. It is more reasonable if you follow the logic that the node is applied to the defender and not the attacker, but it is still confusing.

    How does AAR impact the impartial nodes? For example, Fight or Flight, or that Regen one that applies to you have you are far away or on the defender if you are close.

    I recently used Domino, and even though I was close, the Unstoppable did fail on the defender. I don't recall noticing or not whether the Unstoppable failed to apply on me.
  • Options
    Agent_X_zzzAgent_X_zzz Posts: 4,494 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    AAR reducing abilities accuracy??? What a shocker
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    SlapdashSlapdash Posts: 39

    AAR reducing abilities accuracy??? What a shocker

    Hang on now, you don't want to sound too reasonable and accidentally create a good discussion.
  • Options
    The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,783 ★★★★★
    It makes sense
    HI_guys said:

    Etjama said:

    HI_guys said:

    Etjama said:

    Look, I'd be lying if I said I don't want beneficial nodes to be AAR immune, but who's to say what nodes are even beneficial or not? Like Coward? Is that beneficial or harmful? How about Icarus? Combo Party? Even Power Shield?

    Sure, we could hope that beneficial nodes don't get effected by AAR all day long but this is what makes the most sense. The choice boils down to either no nodes being AAR immune or all of them imo. And I guarantee you prefer the former. Which makes sense anyways.

    Of the nodes you mentioned itslef, most are susceptible to aar and some like coward a d power shield are not.

    Class Nodes created specifically for Cav eq should be immune to AAR.
    I really hate responding like this, trust me. But says you. Why should Cav nodes be immune to AAR? Just why? They should work like all other nodes. It's literally just something that you want so you're saying it should be that way.
    Because the whole point of their existence is to help our champs and there was no reason for it to not be so.

    And it's not like there are no nodes immune to AAR. The weakness removing node in science chapter is immune to AAR. Nodes like do you bleed , acid wash, thunderstruck rage are all immune to AAR. Why?

    So you (not you) cant pretend like this is some revolutionary new idea . It has precedent.
    Abyss of Aproval got me.
    Those nodes are abilities present from the start of the fight. They aren't abilities that trigger with a chance constantly.
    Plus, by that logic, punishing nodes are there to punish you. No reason for it not to.
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