The hardest champs to master are all women .../raiseeyebrow

Defenestrated · February 2021

Notsavage19 said:

Defenestrated said:
I’d argue Quake and Ghost are not hard to master at all. Anyone can do it. It’s just that they don’t want to because:

1) They have all the counters needed to complete all content so they don’t find it necessary to learn

2) They find the champions boring to play

3) They don’t realize that all it takes to get better at them is practice, not skill
I disagree. Most people find Quake and Ghost difficult to play with because their playstyle is very different from the playstyles that other characters use. That on top of the general opinion that Quake and Ghost are hard to play influences an individual's opinion.

I would disagree with the 3rd statement. The ability to practice is a skill. If skill was not needed to play Quake and Ghost, the same could be said with any area of the game, or even life in general. By practicing, you build skill, and the ability to practice is a skill.

I disagree with your last statement. Skill is not the same as practice, nor is the ability to practice a skill. Skill is to do something very well. It shows expertise. Most people will never be on the same skill level as Swedeah or MSD no matter how much they practice. You do not need skill to master playing Quake at a good level. Quake and Bake is good enough for most content. You can still drop a heavy or eat a combo to the face and still survive. With practice, you can get good enough to kill an opponent and not die. With skill, you will never get hit ever or drop any heavies.

Skill means expertise at something. You don’t need to be skilled with Quake and Ghost to get stuff done. You just need enough practice to not die all the time. That, in and of itself, is good enough for a lot of people.

Notsavage19 · February 2021

Defenestrated said:

Notsavage19 said:

Defenestrated said:
I’d argue Quake and Ghost are not hard to master at all. Anyone can do it. It’s just that they don’t want to because:

1) They have all the counters needed to complete all content so they don’t find it necessary to learn

2) They find the champions boring to play

3) They don’t realize that all it takes to get better at them is practice, not skill
I disagree. Most people find Quake and Ghost difficult to play with because their playstyle is very different from the playstyles that other characters use. That on top of the general opinion that Quake and Ghost are hard to play influences an individual's opinion.

I would disagree with the 3rd statement. The ability to practice is a skill. If skill was not needed to play Quake and Ghost, the same could be said with any area of the game, or even life in general. By practicing, you build skill, and the ability to practice is a skill.
I disagree with your last statement. Skill is not the same as practice, nor is the ability to practice a skill. Skill is to do something very well. It shows expertise. Most people will never be on the same skill level as Swedeah or MSD no matter how much they practice. You do not need skill to master playing Quake at a good level. Quake and Bake is good enough for most content. You can still drop a heavy or eat a combo to the face and still survive. With practice, you can get good enough to kill an opponent and not die. With skill, you will never get hit ever or drop any heavies.

Skill means expertise at something. You don’t need to be skilled with Quake and Ghost to get stuff done. You just need enough practice to not die all the time. That, in and of itself, is good enough for a lot of people.

Practice builds expertise. For example, some people may be naturally gifted and skilled in one profession. However, just because someone is not naturally skilled in said profession doesn't mean that they cannot become skilled through practice. By practicing, you build skill. Think about it this way. The more you practice and do something, the more likely you will be able to do it well in subsequent opportunities, therefore you build the ability to do something well.

Scarcity27 · February 2021

Notsavage19 said:

Defenestrated said:

Notsavage19 said:

Defenestrated said:
I’d argue Quake and Ghost are not hard to master at all. Anyone can do it. It’s just that they don’t want to because:

1) They have all the counters needed to complete all content so they don’t find it necessary to learn

2) They find the champions boring to play

3) They don’t realize that all it takes to get better at them is practice, not skill
I disagree. Most people find Quake and Ghost difficult to play with because their playstyle is very different from the playstyles that other characters use. That on top of the general opinion that Quake and Ghost are hard to play influences an individual's opinion.

I would disagree with the 3rd statement. The ability to practice is a skill. If skill was not needed to play Quake and Ghost, the same could be said with any area of the game, or even life in general. By practicing, you build skill, and the ability to practice is a skill.
I disagree with your last statement. Skill is not the same as practice, nor is the ability to practice a skill. Skill is to do something very well. It shows expertise. Most people will never be on the same skill level as Swedeah or MSD no matter how much they practice. You do not need skill to master playing Quake at a good level. Quake and Bake is good enough for most content. You can still drop a heavy or eat a combo to the face and still survive. With practice, you can get good enough to kill an opponent and not die. With skill, you will never get hit ever or drop any heavies.

Skill means expertise at something. You don’t need to be skilled with Quake and Ghost to get stuff done. You just need enough practice to not die all the time. That, in and of itself, is good enough for a lot of people.
Practice builds expertise. For example, some people may be naturally gifted and skilled in one profession. However, just because someone is not naturally skilled in said profession doesn't mean that they cannot become skilled through practice. By practicing, you build skill. Think about it this way. The more you practice and do something, the more likely you will be able to do it well in subsequent opportunities, therefore you build the ability to do something well.

When I was like 10, they taught us that skill is something you can learn, something acquired through practice and perfecting your craft. Talent is something in-built, something you are naturally good at without much practice.

Defenestrated · February 2021

Notsavage19 said:

Defenestrated said:

Notsavage19 said:

Defenestrated said:
I’d argue Quake and Ghost are not hard to master at all. Anyone can do it. It’s just that they don’t want to because:

1) They have all the counters needed to complete all content so they don’t find it necessary to learn

2) They find the champions boring to play

3) They don’t realize that all it takes to get better at them is practice, not skill
I disagree. Most people find Quake and Ghost difficult to play with because their playstyle is very different from the playstyles that other characters use. That on top of the general opinion that Quake and Ghost are hard to play influences an individual's opinion.

I would disagree with the 3rd statement. The ability to practice is a skill. If skill was not needed to play Quake and Ghost, the same could be said with any area of the game, or even life in general. By practicing, you build skill, and the ability to practice is a skill.
I disagree with your last statement. Skill is not the same as practice, nor is the ability to practice a skill. Skill is to do something very well. It shows expertise. Most people will never be on the same skill level as Swedeah or MSD no matter how much they practice. You do not need skill to master playing Quake at a good level. Quake and Bake is good enough for most content. You can still drop a heavy or eat a combo to the face and still survive. With practice, you can get good enough to kill an opponent and not die. With skill, you will never get hit ever or drop any heavies.

Skill means expertise at something. You don’t need to be skilled with Quake and Ghost to get stuff done. You just need enough practice to not die all the time. That, in and of itself, is good enough for a lot of people.
Practice builds expertise. For example, some people may be naturally gifted and skilled in one profession. However, just because someone is not naturally skilled in said profession doesn't mean that they cannot become skilled through practice. By practicing, you build skill. Think about it this way. The more you practice and do something, the more likely you will be able to do it well in subsequent opportunities, therefore you build the ability to do something well.

I guess the point I’m trying to make is: you don’t need skill to make use of Quake and Ghost. People think you need to master Quake and Ghost for them to be useful, but that’s not true.

For example, I suck at re-parrying and intercepting. I always have trouble with Aegis:Intercept nodes, but I still manage to do it in the end. It wasn’t skill that make me get pass the obstacle.

If all you can do is heavy-parry or single phase intercepts, then you are golden. You don’t need to master these champions to see any use out of them, which is what I’m trying to get at because lots of people bench Quake and Ghost since they wrongly believe you need to be “pro” at them. Then, they develop negative feelings toward them because they’re unable to play them perfectly.

Agent_X_zzz · February 2021

My biggest issue with this whole thing is ITS JUST A GAME, if you are focusing on the gender of the "hardest" champions to play then you really need to take a step back lol, you are ruining the game for yourself. Who cares what gender the hardest champs to play are. It really DOES NOT MATTER.

GoddessIlias · February 2021

Nerf doom or give everyone doom

Colonaut123 · February 2021

Beating a dead horse here, but who gives a...? It's not a contest of sexes.

BigBlueOx · February 2021

This is how you get Q.

BigBlueOx · February 2021

This post bothers me because citing 4 examples that “demonstrate” an argument while ignoring the whole data set of complex characters to master is what stupid people do to sound smart to prove that their degree has value.

Terrax, Yellowjacket, Apocalypse, and Stryfe require a lot of understanding ramp up and focus to maximize. There I cherry picked the other side for you.

Jane Foster, CMM, Medusa, whatever being “easier” to play cherry picks some more.

Nojokejaym · February 2021

Why do I still come to the forums. Smh.

Edeuink · February 2021

Isn’t this the nerf doom or give everyone doom guy?

Kabam Ahab · February 2021

This has derailed into arguments and personal attacks, both of which are a violation of the forums rules. Closing this thread now to prevent further issues.

ItsDamien · February 2021

Ethereality said:

ItsDamien said:

Ethereality said:

Superchampion_ said:

Crcrcrc said:
I don't know what's worse, the fact that you made this post or the fact that you're serious.

It is a MOBILE GAME. We don't need one god tier champ that represents every minority, because then they would have to start making champs just for that, instead of interesting comic ones. Don't get me wrong, I love when representation happens, but I would pick the alien or robot every time for the new champ, because they're cooler in the comics. Don't try to start a fight over things that have literally no issues. Nobody has had a problem with how the game's champions work. We don't need someone to come and fight for a high skill cap male champ just because he's a male. That makes no sense in a Marvel game.
Uh this. Just this. Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to stop forcing messages into things.

Lol I'm having a blast with the memes and the math!

In the meantime I'll say this:
The fact that YOU or the people around YOU does not see the underpinnings of the cultural effects that such things as a MOBILE GAME have on society does not mean that OTHERS clearly see them.

I'll put it this way. Remember what I said about games being a form of digital media? Well stay with me here. Let's say we both read a novel. Novels are a form of media too. You read it and may interpret X hidden (or not) message from it. Your interpretation is fine, good, valid because it is your own. No problem there.

The thing is that a literary critic, one that has been schooled in undergrad and graduate school in how to deconstruct to the bone a novel ... and infer from it a vast array of things that go from the historical conjuctures of when it was written, to the psychology of the author to the cultural manifestations present in it ........ will have a vastly different interpretation of said novel. This interpretation is not necessarily better or worse than your own, just different because it has its eyes trained into a different set of aspects from it.

Now imagine a literary critic like this but of video games. THAT IS THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH. Why studying video games is important? For the same reason you are readig this post: PEOPLE SPEND LOTSA TIME PLAYING THEM. And millions of dollars too. Anything that catches the attention of people is worth studying in terms of why/how it catches the attention and what cultural underpinnings/effects does this media have. It was one colleague that mentioned to me , and I quote:

"Kabam is just asking to be picked upon by the woke crowd"

And when I heard it, it made me think. As I said on the OP and on several posts after it, I do not agree if someone says that Kabam is being sexist by portraying Quake, Ghost, IW and Tigra as "complicated to handle" , but I immediately started to think in how to deconstrue such argument if I ever encountered someone who said so. From this conversation @Scarcity27 gave me the ammunition to base this argument, thanks again!

Nothing else to see here on that argument.

Of course do keep the memes and the memes ( "stupidIst" or not, lol 😂) coming, I'm having a blast. But don't think for a second that someone that is trained to study something that YOU play/are engaged with for hours a day or per week will not have something different to say about that very thing than YOU play. If it is something that you are spending hours of your life and real money in, then it makes sense for someone to seek to have a critical perspective on it.

Which brings me back to a post I read in this very forum I read years ago ( too lazy to look for it) which was titled something like " This game is whitewashed " or something like that. In that post the OP was lamenting that minorities were not equally represented in the game ( this was like 4 years ago) . When I read it I remember rolling my eyes cuz I said " this is a beef with the source material, which is from Marvel, not Kabam.... Kabam just merely mostly puts in the game stuff previously made by Marvel, so Kabam cannot be made responsible if Marvel has not been woke for the past 50 years or so." I remember I didn't actually post in that thread because I figured the OP was a minority and well, he/she was definitely entitled to ask for representation if he/she spends a dime on this game, so I accepted that his point of view was valid given his/her own framework of reference.

Which brings me back to my OP. The OP was about the gender underpinnings of gameplay mechanics, something Kabam, not Marvel, is responsible for. That is why I brought it to Kabam forums, otherwise I would have gone to Marvel. Regardless, the issue from the OP has been solved by @Scarcity27 , so....

TL;DR:

The OP's issue was resolved by @Scarcity27 . Move along .... but do keep the memes and the math coming!

And if you have yet another's angle to look at this issue then fire away!

Games Journalists looking for outrage click bait are the reason that people think that studying the social representation of virtual characters in video games is something that needs to exist.

It's also something that only exists in America for whatever reason.

You know who like Video Games? Gamers.
You know what Gamers care about? If the game is good.
You know who doesn't like perceived social issues in games? SJWs that don't play most games.

Your experience in studying video games, or being around people who do, is almost as unimportant as theorising if cheese is as addictive as a drug. No one really cares and makes the masses wonder why money is spent on researching it.

Subjectivity in the name of "research" does not make it a fact or worth the time to even call it "research".
Lol, I don't even live in the USA, and yep, game research happens as a matter of fact all over the world. Lol!!

Saying that only gamers like games thus no one else should care about games is like saying that regular people like money, so economists should not bother studying how people use/spend/exchange money. It's the concern of the regular people only so some guy in some University shouldn't be thinking about it.

LoL!

And what you mention about subjectivity. Lol!! In which part did I say that I am conducting research through this thread??? Lol! I don't even research these topics in this games, I research stuff completely unrelated, I just happen to know a lot of people who look into the social representations of games. But yeah, nope ,conducting game research is far from posting a thread on a forum lol! 😅😂🤣. Dunno to laugh or cry though about your "idea" of what according to you is game research.

Anyway, lets go back to the memes and the math that's waaay more entertaining.

The more you type, the less I believe you.

The hardest champs to master are all women .../raiseeyebrow

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