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Hood Changes - Discussion [Merged Threads]

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Comments

  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 1,720 ★★★★

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
    I’ve got a lot of specific examples in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IuBRhchjyTiQDKSIJ5d7Aad6NfqQO0Cs19I_UBH-xk/edit but it’s no where close to the amount of places I’ve used him. I’ve used him in Variant1, Variant 5, Variant 6, Act 6, Act 7, Alliance War, Monthly Events, Side Events, you name it. If there’s Buffs, Hood’s there.

    His Invisibility might be better for evading basic hits, but he’s losing a prime utility for bypassing multi hit projectile specials. I’ve got examples here:


    Thank you for sharing that I actually read your entire article and it was well written , again, I’m
    Not attacking anyone , just want clarification. If each projectile has a 90% chance to miss , aren’t you netting positive on this? 120-100-90-80

    Essentially you are avoiding that 10% chance for 2 guarantee misses? Only on the third will you be back to where you were.

    Example : Current hood - Dodging apocalypse SP3 you have a 30% chance to take a hit.

    New hood : you have a 10% chance to take a hit.

    Your RNG is net positive .

    I’m not great with numbers so forgive me if I’m using stats as a flat %

  • AleorAleor Posts: 2,570 ★★★★
    Texas_11 said:

    Aleor said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
    Great for anihilus. He's good enough for 6.2.6 boss. Cav mystic paths. Have you played the game at all? The description above is good, why do you need specific fights?
    Yes, I agree with anhilus , no need to insult me. 6.2 boss is immune to his fate seal. Because , I don’t see where he is losing his utility outside of certain matches.
    No insults meant, I did think you're new to the game, as 'managing buffs' utility didn't seem to satisfy you.

    He was my first r2 mystic, I don't have ghost above 4*, and 4* one is r1. Hood did a lot of things. Maybe not the best, but he atm a very reliable. I actually took him to r2 above symb supreme to clear 6.4.6 mystic path on first competition. Long fights, but he was finishing them with full hp, wich is what I need then. His hex thing can remove buffs, wich are not removable with nullifies, and that's huge actually
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 1,720 ★★★★

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.

    Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.

    The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.

    Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.

    I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.

    Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.

    Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)

    These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.

    Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.



    Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios?
    You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
    See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.

    I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 1,720 ★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    @Texas_11 I had r5 BWCV and r5 sorcerer supreme. But I chose to use Hood for my The Champion boss.. he works fantastic there. The safest option by far for the champion(maybe behind sym Supreme). It's so easy. Just 5 hit combo sp2 and that's it. No fancy rotation, no need to take note and keep an eye on phases or counters.

    My first try with hood I took out 80% health and killed him. I tried multiple times with the above mentioned champs and they all died. It's that simple. He's such a simple champ. The stagger reduction will affect this fight seriously. Even with 88% chance previously it was an almost 100 percent chance in practice

    I did preliminary testing yesterday versus the champion, I found that I used the SP2 in case of an emergency or I wasn’t able to stagger the opponent , with a 100% chance to stagger on crits , it should in theory be much more manageable. The champion is immune to fate seal. He will be gaining crazy power and almost always be able to stagger the opponent. I won’t know until I test. I may very well be flipping my opinion.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 1,720 ★★★★
    Aleor said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Aleor said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
    Great for anihilus. He's good enough for 6.2.6 boss. Cav mystic paths. Have you played the game at all? The description above is good, why do you need specific fights?
    Yes, I agree with anhilus , no need to insult me. 6.2 boss is immune to his fate seal. Because , I don’t see where he is losing his utility outside of certain matches.
    No insults meant, I did think you're new to the game, as 'managing buffs' utility didn't seem to satisfy you.

    He was my first r2 mystic, I don't have ghost above 4*, and 4* one is r1. Hood did a lot of things. Maybe not the best, but he atm a very reliable. I actually took him to r2 above symb supreme to clear 6.4.6 mystic path on first competition. Long fights, but he was finishing them with full hp, wich is what I need then. His hex thing can remove buffs, wich are not removable with nullifies, and that's huge actually
    I have him at R2 myself, there is certain elements I like about him . Thanks for the actual insight I’m going to run a test on 6.4.6 now so I can see how he functions . If it is ****, I will come back here and agree, I’m not above coming back with my tail tucked between my legs.

    It’s okay, this community is for disagreements and shared opinions , I just didn’t think it was fair to suggest I didn’t know the game . A little background , I’m in a Map 7x5 ally and have all content done and about 14 R3 Champs.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 1,720 ★★★★
    Aleor said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
    I’ve got a lot of specific examples in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IuBRhchjyTiQDKSIJ5d7Aad6NfqQO0Cs19I_UBH-xk/edit but it’s no where close to the amount of places I’ve used him. I’ve used him in Variant1, Variant 5, Variant 6, Act 6, Act 7, Alliance War, Monthly Events, Side Events, you name it. If there’s Buffs, Hood’s there.

    His Invisibility might be better for evading basic hits, but he’s losing a prime utility for bypassing multi hit projectile specials. I’ve got examples here:


    Thank you for sharing that I actually read your entire article and it was well written , again, I’m
    Not attacking anyone , just want clarification. If each projectile has a 90% chance to miss , aren’t you netting positive on this? 120-100-90-80

    Essentially you are avoiding that 10% chance for 2 guarantee misses? Only on the third will you be back to where you were.

    Example : Current hood - Dodging apocalypse SP3 you have a 30% chance to take a hit.

    New hood : you have a 10% chance to take a hit.

    Your RNG is net positive .

    I’m not great with numbers so forgive me if I’m using stats as a flat %

    You do calculate things wrong here. But the bigger thing is you may trigger miss while baiting sps. With flat 90% chance it doesn't matter. But if you already triggered it once, you already have lower odds to proc miss on that sp with 3 hits. More hits - even less likely. Could've just make it 100 flat on projectiles, maybe with reduced duration - still would've been far from ghost anyway
    Yeah, actually good point. Didn’t think about if you accidentally miss about that. Definitely not on ghost level.

    But to put it into perspective starky has a chance to evade all specials by 63% and it always feel pretty safe.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 1,720 ★★★★

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.

    Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.

    The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.

    Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.

    I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.

    Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.

    Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)

    These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.

    Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.



    Fate seal doesn't seem more important bc of anything to do with stagger. It's important bc it's the only way he can deal with permanent or already existing buffs. A more regular stagger means squat against Venom or Aarkus.

    Also, Torch is still awful outside of mystic/energy attack opponents. His balance update did practically nothing. He's excelled in ideal matches and been an absolute chore to use outside of them from day one and still is.

    You're free to personally like the changes to Hood (they'll have practically zero effect on me outside of when using a Ghost team which is quite annoying admittedly) but that doesn't change the fact that a core component of his kit is being removed making him worse for lots of other people that either rely on him due to roster limitations or just enjoy using him for his old kit. That's something everyone should have a problem with.

    Well if we are discussing permanent buffs I can only think of a few , resistor fury , cruelty on nodes.
    Vision AA , Annhilus. Overall, I would agree with you that he is less effective against permanent buffs, most of the troublesome buffs in game are can be staggered.

    Torches balance update actually did significantly more for him as a character, being able to reverse healing and keep his temperature up is what has allowed him to excel in new matchups I bet he is at the top now. Kabam showed this with data. I’m
    Not a fan of torch, but as both can’t deny how powerful he has become , especially with regen reversal and magneto bosses and other energy matchups. Lots of people used him for a legend run.

    The Hood buffs don’t change my roster too much , but I do have him as R2 , and I never really used him for anything other than synergy and on occasion for some fun. This is a good benefit to me. I again , understand how it can affect some people , but some of those permanent buffs we talk about aren’t trickled throughout the game snd that challenging. There are typically better options. I respect the material used and I debate over and over about my champions. If it’s overall a bad buff Kabam would give compensation , I’m sure.
  • AleorAleor Posts: 2,570 ★★★★
    Texas_11 said:

    Aleor said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
    I’ve got a lot of specific examples in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IuBRhchjyTiQDKSIJ5d7Aad6NfqQO0Cs19I_UBH-xk/edit but it’s no where close to the amount of places I’ve used him. I’ve used him in Variant1, Variant 5, Variant 6, Act 6, Act 7, Alliance War, Monthly Events, Side Events, you name it. If there’s Buffs, Hood’s there.

    His Invisibility might be better for evading basic hits, but he’s losing a prime utility for bypassing multi hit projectile specials. I’ve got examples here:


    Thank you for sharing that I actually read your entire article and it was well written , again, I’m
    Not attacking anyone , just want clarification. If each projectile has a 90% chance to miss , aren’t you netting positive on this? 120-100-90-80

    Essentially you are avoiding that 10% chance for 2 guarantee misses? Only on the third will you be back to where you were.

    Example : Current hood - Dodging apocalypse SP3 you have a 30% chance to take a hit.

    New hood : you have a 10% chance to take a hit.

    Your RNG is net positive .

    I’m not great with numbers so forgive me if I’m using stats as a flat %

    You do calculate things wrong here. But the bigger thing is you may trigger miss while baiting sps. With flat 90% chance it doesn't matter. But if you already triggered it once, you already have lower odds to proc miss on that sp with 3 hits. More hits - even less likely. Could've just make it 100 flat on projectiles, maybe with reduced duration - still would've been far from ghost anyway
    Yeah, actually good point. Didn’t think about if you accidentally miss about that. Definitely not on ghost level.

    But to put it into perspective starky has a chance to evade all specials by 63% and it always feel pretty safe.
    Here's another scenario: push opponent close to sp3, parry, hit (fill third bar of power), use sp3 - and you have 5 hits to power steal, if your invis is on cooldown. And if you power steal, you stop, and you have your opponent in the corner and a lot of time to bait sp2. With 50% power steal one of 5 hits will do it with 97% success rate. Iirc, now only his Ms can power still, i.e. only 2 hits, with 50% will give you only 75% success
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 1,720 ★★★★



    This is a comparison of Hoods new invisibility vs projectiles. As you can see, 3 hit is the cut off point when New Hood is worse. After that, he quickly becomes unreliable.

    At 6 hits it’s 50% vs 4% that’s insane.

    Remember the hard to evade specials that hood is good for are the 4+ specials, there’s only one special. I can think of that can’t be evaded easily thats 3 hits and that’s annihilus. Who Hood won’t even be good against now since you can’t nullify his rod anymore.

    That’s really good data thanks for crunching that, not too many 6 hit specials we have. But when it comes to 4 I think that’s reasonable to discuss. I think the most I seen in @Cat_Murdock video was 4 on each of the specials, in theory he only takes on that risk on the 4th hit which can be dodged by the user. With old hood you are taking on that risk for 10% each time , while the old hood you take on the 20% risk once which the user should be able to assist with. I know each hit is it’s on value so that 20% is a bigger risk. But still less of a risk then getting hit each time.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 1,720 ★★★★

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.

    Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.

    The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.

    Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.

    I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.

    Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.

    Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)

    These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.

    Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.



    Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios?
    You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
    See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.

    I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
    And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock?
    Or Loki’s buff steal?
    Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?

    We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in.
    It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
    How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.

    29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.

    Colly
    Magneto
    She hulk
    Venom
    Red hulk
    Carnage
    Mole man
    Kingpin
    Falcon

    These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 1,720 ★★★★
    Aleor said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Aleor said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
    I’ve got a lot of specific examples in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IuBRhchjyTiQDKSIJ5d7Aad6NfqQO0Cs19I_UBH-xk/edit but it’s no where close to the amount of places I’ve used him. I’ve used him in Variant1, Variant 5, Variant 6, Act 6, Act 7, Alliance War, Monthly Events, Side Events, you name it. If there’s Buffs, Hood’s there.

    His Invisibility might be better for evading basic hits, but he’s losing a prime utility for bypassing multi hit projectile specials. I’ve got examples here:


    Thank you for sharing that I actually read your entire article and it was well written , again, I’m
    Not attacking anyone , just want clarification. If each projectile has a 90% chance to miss , aren’t you netting positive on this? 120-100-90-80

    Essentially you are avoiding that 10% chance for 2 guarantee misses? Only on the third will you be back to where you were.

    Example : Current hood - Dodging apocalypse SP3 you have a 30% chance to take a hit.

    New hood : you have a 10% chance to take a hit.

    Your RNG is net positive .

    I’m not great with numbers so forgive me if I’m using stats as a flat %

    You do calculate things wrong here. But the bigger thing is you may trigger miss while baiting sps. With flat 90% chance it doesn't matter. But if you already triggered it once, you already have lower odds to proc miss on that sp with 3 hits. More hits - even less likely. Could've just make it 100 flat on projectiles, maybe with reduced duration - still would've been far from ghost anyway
    Yeah, actually good point. Didn’t think about if you accidentally miss about that. Definitely not on ghost level.

    But to put it into perspective starky has a chance to evade all specials by 63% and it always feel pretty safe.
    Here's another scenario: push opponent close to sp3, parry, hit (fill third bar of power), use sp3 - and you have 5 hits to power steal, if your invis is on cooldown. And if you power steal, you stop, and you have your opponent in the corner and a lot of time to bait sp2. With 50% power steal one of 5 hits will do it with 97% success rate. Iirc, now only his Ms can power still, i.e. only 2 hits, with 50% will give you only 75% success
    “The Hood becomes Immune to all Stun effects. Additionally, Firing a Bullet while Invisible has a 45% chance to Steal 10% of the opponent’s current Power, gaining twice that amount in the process.”

    Yes , but you would get double the power back , but yes you lose a higher percentage to steal power back , but since all SP2 are bullets you can essentially Do M*LLLM* SP2 and your chances are a lot higher to steal power back and be right back at an SP2.

    I would have to test this though.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 1,720 ★★★★

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.

    Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.

    The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.

    Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.

    I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.

    Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.

    Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)

    These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.

    Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.



    Fate seal doesn't seem more important bc of anything to do with stagger. It's important bc it's the only way he can deal with permanent or already existing buffs. A more regular stagger means squat against Venom or Aarkus.

    Also, Torch is still awful outside of mystic/energy attack opponents. His balance update did practically nothing. He's excelled in ideal matches and been an absolute chore to use outside of them from day one and still is.

    You're free to personally like the changes to Hood (they'll have practically zero effect on me outside of when using a Ghost team which is quite annoying admittedly) but that doesn't change the fact that a core component of his kit is being removed making him worse for lots of other people that either rely on him due to roster limitations or just enjoy using him for his old kit. That's something everyone should have a problem with.

    Well if we are discussing permanent buffs I can only think of a few , resistor fury , cruelty on nodes.
    Vision AA , Annhilus. Overall, I would agree with you that he is less effective against permanent buffs, most of the troublesome buffs in game are can be staggered.

    Torches balance update actually did significantly more for him as a character, being able to reverse healing and keep his temperature up is what has allowed him to excel in new matchups I bet he is at the top now. Kabam showed this with data. I’m
    Not a fan of torch, but as both can’t deny how powerful he has become , especially with regen reversal and magneto bosses and other energy matchups. Lots of people used him for a legend run.

    The Hood buffs don’t change my roster too much , but I do have him as R2 , and I never really used him for anything other than synergy and on occasion for some fun. This is a good benefit to me. I again , understand how it can affect some people , but some of those permanent buffs we talk about aren’t trickled throughout the game snd that challenging. There are typically better options. I respect the material used and I debate over and over about my champions. If it’s overall a bad buff Kabam would give compensation , I’m sure.
    Torch already reversed healing originally. All they did was slightly increase temperature gain during heavy charge. He's still incredibly tedious to use outside mystic/energy attack opponents where you can build smolder easily. His rise in stock has absolutely nothing to do with his balance update.

    Sure, permanent buffs may not be an everyday issue needing to be addressed. That doesn't change the fact that some people used Hood to deal with them previously and no longer will be able to do so. I'm not going to downplay this issue just bc it's something that will practically never affect me personally.
    Torch reversed healing originally . The rate at which Temperature increases and how long he could hold temperature actually ties in to how he could reverse it was small changes but a compounding affect on all his abilities , he couldn’t hold temp so very quick incinerate which means no heal. That’s a different convo though.

    You are right it doesn’t change the fact that people use them to deal with him, but now he will on paper be a much better character for them overall. I’m not downplaying the issue , I’m just suggesting that we wait until we see what the effect is instead of guessing , including my self this could be a lot like Diablo and be overall trash
  • AleorAleor Posts: 2,570 ★★★★
    Texas_11 said:

    Aleor said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Aleor said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
    I’ve got a lot of specific examples in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IuBRhchjyTiQDKSIJ5d7Aad6NfqQO0Cs19I_UBH-xk/edit but it’s no where close to the amount of places I’ve used him. I’ve used him in Variant1, Variant 5, Variant 6, Act 6, Act 7, Alliance War, Monthly Events, Side Events, you name it. If there’s Buffs, Hood’s there.

    His Invisibility might be better for evading basic hits, but he’s losing a prime utility for bypassing multi hit projectile specials. I’ve got examples here:


    Thank you for sharing that I actually read your entire article and it was well written , again, I’m
    Not attacking anyone , just want clarification. If each projectile has a 90% chance to miss , aren’t you netting positive on this? 120-100-90-80

    Essentially you are avoiding that 10% chance for 2 guarantee misses? Only on the third will you be back to where you were.

    Example : Current hood - Dodging apocalypse SP3 you have a 30% chance to take a hit.

    New hood : you have a 10% chance to take a hit.

    Your RNG is net positive .

    I’m not great with numbers so forgive me if I’m using stats as a flat %

    You do calculate things wrong here. But the bigger thing is you may trigger miss while baiting sps. With flat 90% chance it doesn't matter. But if you already triggered it once, you already have lower odds to proc miss on that sp with 3 hits. More hits - even less likely. Could've just make it 100 flat on projectiles, maybe with reduced duration - still would've been far from ghost anyway
    Yeah, actually good point. Didn’t think about if you accidentally miss about that. Definitely not on ghost level.

    But to put it into perspective starky has a chance to evade all specials by 63% and it always feel pretty safe.
    Here's another scenario: push opponent close to sp3, parry, hit (fill third bar of power), use sp3 - and you have 5 hits to power steal, if your invis is on cooldown. And if you power steal, you stop, and you have your opponent in the corner and a lot of time to bait sp2. With 50% power steal one of 5 hits will do it with 97% success rate. Iirc, now only his Ms can power still, i.e. only 2 hits, with 50% will give you only 75% success
    “The Hood becomes Immune to all Stun effects. Additionally, Firing a Bullet while Invisible has a 45% chance to Steal 10% of the opponent’s current Power, gaining twice that amount in the process.”

    Yes , but you would get double the power back , but yes you lose a higher percentage to steal power back , but since all SP2 are bullets you can essentially Do M*LLLM* SP2 and your chances are a lot higher to steal power back and be right back at an SP2.

    I would have to test this though.
    Wich means you have to have 2 bars of power. I said about sp3, as you get extra attack per opponents bar of power. Atm you could do it almost reliably. After the changes - not really.
  • Texas_11Texas_11 Posts: 1,720 ★★★★

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Heitert3 said:

    Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.

    Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.

    But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.

    The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.

    What did you use him for particularly?
    What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
    Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.

    Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
    The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.

    Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.

    The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.

    Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.

    I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.

    Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.

    Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)

    These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.

    Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.



    Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios?
    You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
    See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.

    I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
    And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock?
    Or Loki’s buff steal?
    Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?

    We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in.
    It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
    How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.

    29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.

    Colly
    Magneto
    She hulk
    Venom
    Red hulk
    Carnage
    Mole man
    Kingpin
    Falcon

    These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
    Practically none of those champs were used by anyone for anything prior to being changed either. None of them were members of any widely used team even just as synergy pieces to only even rarely be actually used either. Also, none of them actually lost anything in their updates either. The only even somewhat notable piece would be mags sp3 tank which you already addressed. Find me a single person that ranked and used magneto for that ability and I'd be mightily impressed.
    I can’t confirm that and neither can you. But, if that is true they based it off their data , Hoods data must have shown something similar, or else he would not be getting a tune up.

    I can only speak subjectively, I do know Hood was always considered underrated, but he doesn’t have any core damage mechanics to make him a reasonable option anywhere. If we are discussing mid game players , there are many 4* that can do a better job than Hood can. Now when we get into act 6 someone mentioned a 6.4.6 mystic path that I just reviewed , but will test soon.
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