Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
I’ve got a lot of specific examples in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IuBRhchjyTiQDKSIJ5d7Aad6NfqQO0Cs19I_UBH-xk/edit but it’s no where close to the amount of places I’ve used him. I’ve used him in Variant1, Variant 5, Variant 6, Act 6, Act 7, Alliance War, Monthly Events, Side Events, you name it. If there’s Buffs, Hood’s there.
His Invisibility might be better for evading basic hits, but he’s losing a prime utility for bypassing multi hit projectile specials. I’ve got examples here:
Thank you for sharing that I actually read your entire article and it was well written , again, I’m Not attacking anyone , just want clarification. If each projectile has a 90% chance to miss , aren’t you netting positive on this? 120-100-90-80
Essentially you are avoiding that 10% chance for 2 guarantee misses? Only on the third will you be back to where you were.
Example : Current hood - Dodging apocalypse SP3 you have a 30% chance to take a hit.
New hood : you have a 10% chance to take a hit.
Your RNG is net positive .
I’m not great with numbers so forgive me if I’m using stats as a flat %
Most of the examples I have of Hood Missing specials are ones with a high hit count. As soon as he misses a few bullets, his chance to Miss is going to be substantially lower than it currently is, and in some cases will drop to 0.
@Texas_11 I had r5 BWCV and r5 sorcerer supreme. But I chose to use Hood for my The Champion boss.. he works fantastic there. The safest option by far for the champion(maybe behind sym Supreme). It's so easy. Just 5 hit combo sp2 and that's it. No fancy rotation, no need to take note and keep an eye on phases or counters.
My first try with hood I took out 80% health and killed him. I tried multiple times with the above mentioned champs and they all died. It's that simple. He's such a simple champ. The stagger reduction will affect this fight seriously. Even with 88% chance previously it was an almost 100 percent chance in practice
I did preliminary testing yesterday versus the champion, I found that I used the SP2 in case of an emergency or I wasn’t able to stagger the opponent , with a 100% chance to stagger on crits , it should in theory be much more manageable. The champion is immune to fate seal. He will be gaining crazy power and almost always be able to stagger the opponent. I won’t know until I test. I may very well be flipping my opinion.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
I’ve got a lot of specific examples in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IuBRhchjyTiQDKSIJ5d7Aad6NfqQO0Cs19I_UBH-xk/edit but it’s no where close to the amount of places I’ve used him. I’ve used him in Variant1, Variant 5, Variant 6, Act 6, Act 7, Alliance War, Monthly Events, Side Events, you name it. If there’s Buffs, Hood’s there.
His Invisibility might be better for evading basic hits, but he’s losing a prime utility for bypassing multi hit projectile specials. I’ve got examples here:
Thank you for sharing that I actually read your entire article and it was well written , again, I’m Not attacking anyone , just want clarification. If each projectile has a 90% chance to miss , aren’t you netting positive on this? 120-100-90-80
Essentially you are avoiding that 10% chance for 2 guarantee misses? Only on the third will you be back to where you were.
Example : Current hood - Dodging apocalypse SP3 you have a 30% chance to take a hit.
New hood : you have a 10% chance to take a hit.
Your RNG is net positive .
I’m not great with numbers so forgive me if I’m using stats as a flat %
You do calculate things wrong here. But the bigger thing is you may trigger miss while baiting sps. With flat 90% chance it doesn't matter. But if you already triggered it once, you already have lower odds to proc miss on that sp with 3 hits. More hits - even less likely. Could've just make it 100 flat on projectiles, maybe with reduced duration - still would've been far from ghost anyway
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock? Or Loki’s buff steal? Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in. It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
Great for anihilus. He's good enough for 6.2.6 boss. Cav mystic paths. Have you played the game at all? The description above is good, why do you need specific fights?
Yes, I agree with anhilus , no need to insult me. 6.2 boss is immune to his fate seal. Because , I don’t see where he is losing his utility outside of certain matches.
No insults meant, I did think you're new to the game, as 'managing buffs' utility didn't seem to satisfy you.
He was my first r2 mystic, I don't have ghost above 4*, and 4* one is r1. Hood did a lot of things. Maybe not the best, but he atm a very reliable. I actually took him to r2 above symb supreme to clear 6.4.6 mystic path on first competition. Long fights, but he was finishing them with full hp, wich is what I need then. His hex thing can remove buffs, wich are not removable with nullifies, and that's huge actually
I have him at R2 myself, there is certain elements I like about him . Thanks for the actual insight I’m going to run a test on 6.4.6 now so I can see how he functions . If it is ****, I will come back here and agree, I’m not above coming back with my tail tucked between my legs.
It’s okay, this community is for disagreements and shared opinions , I just didn’t think it was fair to suggest I didn’t know the game . A little background , I’m in a Map 7x5 ally and have all content done and about 14 R3 Champs.
I refuse to believe anyone ranked up Hood for any reason other than the ghost synergy. There’s at least 10 mystics better than him pre-buff.
I ranked him up back in the day, even though I had Magik. Even though I had a decent mystic roster. He was my only option to champion, and he was extremely fun to play. However, what kabam is turning him into isn’t even characteristics of a mystic champion. The only form of nullify he has is stagger. I ranked him up because he fulfilled a part in my roster before I had doom or sym supreme or any one like that
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
I’ve got a lot of specific examples in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IuBRhchjyTiQDKSIJ5d7Aad6NfqQO0Cs19I_UBH-xk/edit but it’s no where close to the amount of places I’ve used him. I’ve used him in Variant1, Variant 5, Variant 6, Act 6, Act 7, Alliance War, Monthly Events, Side Events, you name it. If there’s Buffs, Hood’s there.
His Invisibility might be better for evading basic hits, but he’s losing a prime utility for bypassing multi hit projectile specials. I’ve got examples here:
Thank you for sharing that I actually read your entire article and it was well written , again, I’m Not attacking anyone , just want clarification. If each projectile has a 90% chance to miss , aren’t you netting positive on this? 120-100-90-80
Essentially you are avoiding that 10% chance for 2 guarantee misses? Only on the third will you be back to where you were.
Example : Current hood - Dodging apocalypse SP3 you have a 30% chance to take a hit.
New hood : you have a 10% chance to take a hit.
Your RNG is net positive .
I’m not great with numbers so forgive me if I’m using stats as a flat %
You do calculate things wrong here. But the bigger thing is you may trigger miss while baiting sps. With flat 90% chance it doesn't matter. But if you already triggered it once, you already have lower odds to proc miss on that sp with 3 hits. More hits - even less likely. Could've just make it 100 flat on projectiles, maybe with reduced duration - still would've been far from ghost anyway
Yeah, actually good point. Didn’t think about if you accidentally miss about that. Definitely not on ghost level.
But to put it into perspective starky has a chance to evade all specials by 63% and it always feel pretty safe.
Wow, change notes have been out for 30 minutes and everyone already knows exactly how this change is going to effect him? Let the release happen, use the champ, then condemn it if it’s warranted
I think the most important aspect of the Hood change is being overlooked, and it is something that while Kam mentions at the end of his video, I don't think he made the direct case for. If I understand Kam's video correctly, Kam makes the case that the devs took away too much relative to what they added back, and that's problematic for the players who invested in Hood for those things the devs took away. From that perspective, maybe we all should wait and see if that's true.
However, I believe that is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if Hood is good or bad. It doesn't matter if the devs added enough, or not enough. The real problem is that Hood's update reflects a toxic design philosophy, and I don't use that word lightly. The philosophy is basically this: we can take away anything we want, as long as we put more stuff back.
This game doesn't work that way, and in fact is moving farther and farther away from that. Usefulness is not linear: we don't have champs that are 8s that are better than 7s. We have champs that are useful in this fight, and champs that are useful in that fight. We have champs good in some situations and not in others. And we have a content design philosophy magnifying those differences in higher tier content. You need a roster with a wide range of capabilities to do all the content coming out.
We no longer live in a world where the devs can turn a champ that is a 4 into a champ that is a 7 and walk away happy. Instead we live in a world where Hood had very specific buff control capabilities that were severely weakened in some aspects, and then had other stuff added. We cannot simply say the stuff added is "better" than the stuff removed, because for the players who were relying upon Hood to do those things that were removed, the champ no longer functions as desired in their specific roster.
This is already problematic in a game where champion acquisition is random, so you have to deal with the hand you're dealt. But this game is also a game in which the resources to rank up champs to combat effective levels relative to the rest of the roster is also limited and expensive. Every single player faces a unique challenge when ranking up roster, unique due to the fact that everyone's roster is in effect randomly generated. For some people, Hood was their best options for certain things, and they invested in Hood because of that fact. Those investments are now lost. This is true even if Hood is now better at other things, because there's no guarantee that those players *needed* those other things.
Maybe Hood is better for a new player picking him up today, and maybe Hood is not better. But that's irrelevant, or should be irrelevant. Those players are getting a better Hood on the backs of other players getting a worse Hood and losing resources they spent in good faith on a champ that changed for no reason.
i say "for no reason" because if there was a need for Hood to lose the utility he lost, that would be one thing. Hypothetically speaking, if losing that utility was the *only way* for Hood to become more relevant to the playerbase at large, then this change would be awful but necessary, and we should all accept that some things are awful but necessary. But it is impossible to make the case that the loss of utility was necessary, because the devs could have added less powerful versions of their new mechanics and kept his original utility, as they don't conflict.
If preservation of player investment was an actual priority with the developers, Hood could have been updated in a way that made him better for everyone.
Instead, the devs played a numbers game. Improve Hood for the masses, and if enough people like it, it doesn't matter how much damage occurs to the people already invested in him.
Whether you like the Hood update or not, whether you think the Hood update makes him more valuable or not, no matter what playtesting eventually shows, I think every player should consider the Hood update dangerous, because it says the devs don't care about pre-existing player investment. They only care about what players will invest in champions in the future. And if the devs continue to update champions with this philosophy, they will eventually take something away you like and for no reason.
I understand there's some grey area here. Most game changes, most champion updates, take something away. Some of that is inevitable. The question is whether what was taken away is sufficiently useful and important that the preservation of investment is important. But I think the Hood change is unambiguously far over the line. There is no question whatsoever that he had important use cases, and there's no question some of them were taken away. Hood is not a grey area case.
Player investment is the responsibility of the player’s not Kabam’s. Kabam has always reserved the right to make any changes they want at any time for any reason and you know this or at least you should. I swear I have never met so many die hard hood fans before today it hilarious. I’ve seen far more people want to quit the game over pulling a 6* hood than jump for joy. Again it’s very presumptuous of you to make this argument before even testing out the changes. For all you know he could still retain his buff control utility but now with more damage
Ultimately, that's true: players are responsible for the decisions they make in the game. And I've *always* supported the devs' right and responsibility to do what is best for the game overall, whether it is popular or not. If the game *requires* them to nerf an OP champ, then I believe they should do that, because the integrity of the game overrides the players' investment in that champ. That's a risk players have to accept.
But it is also true that this is a necessary evil, something that should only be done when it is necessary, for the simple practical reason that if the devs are capricious with this type of behavior, player confidence in the game will erode and that is also bad for the game. On a purely practical level, we want players to be engaged with the game, and invest their time and resources into the game. And that requires trust that those investments will be respected. They are not sacrosanct, but they should be acknowledged.
If a player says the devs should never nerf anything, never change anything in a way the player dislikes, always do the popular thing, that's silly,. and no one has said that more often or more consistently than I have. But I'm not saying any of that here. What I'm saying is that when changes happen they should avoid damaging player investment when possible and practical, and for the basic fundamental reason that respecting players investment is better for the game overall.
And if you think it is presumptuous of me to assume that Hood has lost his ability to remove buffs when the only way he had to remove existing buffs was taken away then sure, I'll accept that judgment. I presume a lot of things that are only 99.99999999% certain rather than 100% certain. Furthermore, the fact that you can read my entire post and still think this is about whether Hood is better or worse is due to another one of my presumptions, this time of literacy.
As I mentioned in my previous post, I use Hood for everything (AW, AQ, EQ, Story Acts, etc.) and how I dealt with champs like Hyperion, Annihilus, Angela, and unblockable SPs. I've even had success taking out Korg with him too, thanks to invisibility. Every Cosmic boss that shows up? Hood shuts them down. The only synergy usage I get out of him is power gain with Invisible Woman. In my alt's roster, he's the only +5* champ I have for buff denial. Well, I did just open Longshot, but I'm still learning how to play him.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Fate seal doesn't seem more important bc of anything to do with stagger. It's important bc it's the only way he can deal with permanent or already existing buffs. A more regular stagger means squat against Venom or Aarkus.
Also, Torch is still awful outside of mystic/energy attack opponents. His balance update did practically nothing. He's excelled in ideal matches and been an absolute chore to use outside of them from day one and still is.
You're free to personally like the changes to Hood (they'll have practically zero effect on me outside of when using a Ghost team which is quite annoying admittedly) but that doesn't change the fact that a core component of his kit is being removed making him worse for lots of other people that either rely on him due to roster limitations or just enjoy using him for his old kit. That's something everyone should have a problem with.
Well if we are discussing permanent buffs I can only think of a few , resistor fury , cruelty on nodes. Vision AA , Annhilus. Overall, I would agree with you that he is less effective against permanent buffs, most of the troublesome buffs in game are can be staggered.
Torches balance update actually did significantly more for him as a character, being able to reverse healing and keep his temperature up is what has allowed him to excel in new matchups I bet he is at the top now. Kabam showed this with data. I’m Not a fan of torch, but as both can’t deny how powerful he has become , especially with regen reversal and magneto bosses and other energy matchups. Lots of people used him for a legend run.
The Hood buffs don’t change my roster too much , but I do have him as R2 , and I never really used him for anything other than synergy and on occasion for some fun. This is a good benefit to me. I again , understand how it can affect some people , but some of those permanent buffs we talk about aren’t trickled throughout the game snd that challenging. There are typically better options. I respect the material used and I debate over and over about my champions. If it’s overall a bad buff Kabam would give compensation , I’m sure.
This is a comparison of Hoods new invisibility vs projectiles. As you can see, 3 hit is the cut off point when New Hood is worse. After that, he quickly becomes unreliable.
At 6 hits it’s 50% vs 4% that’s insane.
Remember the hard to evade specials that hood is good for are the 4+ specials, there’s only one special. I can think of that can’t be evaded easily thats 3 hits and that’s annihilus. Who Hood won’t even be good against now since you can’t nullify his rod anymore.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
I’ve got a lot of specific examples in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IuBRhchjyTiQDKSIJ5d7Aad6NfqQO0Cs19I_UBH-xk/edit but it’s no where close to the amount of places I’ve used him. I’ve used him in Variant1, Variant 5, Variant 6, Act 6, Act 7, Alliance War, Monthly Events, Side Events, you name it. If there’s Buffs, Hood’s there.
His Invisibility might be better for evading basic hits, but he’s losing a prime utility for bypassing multi hit projectile specials. I’ve got examples here:
Thank you for sharing that I actually read your entire article and it was well written , again, I’m Not attacking anyone , just want clarification. If each projectile has a 90% chance to miss , aren’t you netting positive on this? 120-100-90-80
Essentially you are avoiding that 10% chance for 2 guarantee misses? Only on the third will you be back to where you were.
Example : Current hood - Dodging apocalypse SP3 you have a 30% chance to take a hit.
New hood : you have a 10% chance to take a hit.
Your RNG is net positive .
I’m not great with numbers so forgive me if I’m using stats as a flat %
You do calculate things wrong here. But the bigger thing is you may trigger miss while baiting sps. With flat 90% chance it doesn't matter. But if you already triggered it once, you already have lower odds to proc miss on that sp with 3 hits. More hits - even less likely. Could've just make it 100 flat on projectiles, maybe with reduced duration - still would've been far from ghost anyway
Yeah, actually good point. Didn’t think about if you accidentally miss about that. Definitely not on ghost level.
But to put it into perspective starky has a chance to evade all specials by 63% and it always feel pretty safe.
Here's another scenario: push opponent close to sp3, parry, hit (fill third bar of power), use sp3 - and you have 5 hits to power steal, if your invis is on cooldown. And if you power steal, you stop, and you have your opponent in the corner and a lot of time to bait sp2. With 50% power steal one of 5 hits will do it with 97% success rate. Iirc, now only his Ms can power still, i.e. only 2 hits, with 50% will give you only 75% success
For all those saying its his utility being stripped. Imagine he comes put like the next ghost / corvus.. Will you still be complaining about utility? I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm saying I want to see what his build is like before I pass judgement.
You cannot say something is bad, without seeing it. Yes, they've taken something away, but if what they've replaced it with makes him one of the best champs in the game.. then I'll see how I feel. Until I see his build, I'm not complaining. Once I've seen it, I'll decide for myself if I like the changes or not.
If all you care about is whether Hood actually got stronger or not, then I agree: you should actually test Hood yourself first before making that judgment.
I literally do not care if he ends up stronger or not for me. That's not my problem. My problem is the devs are trying to make Hood stronger for me at the expense of completely changing him for the players who already invested in him. If I test him and he's better for me, I don't want that improvement at the cost of his core capabilities being ripped out of him that other players were relying upon. And if I test him and he's not better for me, then that just adds comedy on top of tragedy.
To repeat and emphasize: I am not judging the changes. I am judging the necessity of the changes. They were not necessary. The devs should not be doing things that are not necessary that will cause pain for players, especially players doing literally exactly what they want players to be doing which is trying to find uses for the champions rather than only paying attention to tier lists.
Here's the bottom line. We have players like Cat Mudock who found a diamond in the rough with Hood and put their money where their mouth was and invested time and resources to make that champ work for them. And we have players who say they are fools because everybody knows who the best champs are. Everyone has to decide which of those attitudes we want to encourage and support. I've chosen my side. Everyone else has to choose theirs.
This is a comparison of Hoods new invisibility vs projectiles. As you can see, 3 hit is the cut off point when New Hood is worse. After that, he quickly becomes unreliable.
At 6 hits it’s 50% vs 4% that’s insane.
Remember the hard to evade specials that hood is good for are the 4+ specials, there’s only one special. I can think of that can’t be evaded easily thats 3 hits and that’s annihilus. Who Hood won’t even be good against now since you can’t nullify his rod anymore.
That’s really good data thanks for crunching that, not too many 6 hit specials we have. But when it comes to 4 I think that’s reasonable to discuss. I think the most I seen in @Cat_Murdock video was 4 on each of the specials, in theory he only takes on that risk on the 4th hit which can be dodged by the user. With old hood you are taking on that risk for 10% each time , while the old hood you take on the 20% risk once which the user should be able to assist with. I know each hit is it’s on value so that 20% is a bigger risk. But still less of a risk then getting hit each time.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock? Or Loki’s buff steal? Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in. It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.
29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.
Colly Magneto She hulk Venom Red hulk Carnage Mole man Kingpin Falcon
These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Fate seal doesn't seem more important bc of anything to do with stagger. It's important bc it's the only way he can deal with permanent or already existing buffs. A more regular stagger means squat against Venom or Aarkus.
Also, Torch is still awful outside of mystic/energy attack opponents. His balance update did practically nothing. He's excelled in ideal matches and been an absolute chore to use outside of them from day one and still is.
You're free to personally like the changes to Hood (they'll have practically zero effect on me outside of when using a Ghost team which is quite annoying admittedly) but that doesn't change the fact that a core component of his kit is being removed making him worse for lots of other people that either rely on him due to roster limitations or just enjoy using him for his old kit. That's something everyone should have a problem with.
Well if we are discussing permanent buffs I can only think of a few , resistor fury , cruelty on nodes. Vision AA , Annhilus. Overall, I would agree with you that he is less effective against permanent buffs, most of the troublesome buffs in game are can be staggered.
Torches balance update actually did significantly more for him as a character, being able to reverse healing and keep his temperature up is what has allowed him to excel in new matchups I bet he is at the top now. Kabam showed this with data. I’m Not a fan of torch, but as both can’t deny how powerful he has become , especially with regen reversal and magneto bosses and other energy matchups. Lots of people used him for a legend run.
The Hood buffs don’t change my roster too much , but I do have him as R2 , and I never really used him for anything other than synergy and on occasion for some fun. This is a good benefit to me. I again , understand how it can affect some people , but some of those permanent buffs we talk about aren’t trickled throughout the game snd that challenging. There are typically better options. I respect the material used and I debate over and over about my champions. If it’s overall a bad buff Kabam would give compensation , I’m sure.
Torch already reversed healing originally. All they did was slightly increase temperature gain during heavy charge. He's still incredibly tedious to use outside mystic/energy attack opponents where you can build smolder easily. His rise in stock has absolutely nothing to do with his balance update.
Sure, permanent buffs may not be an everyday issue needing to be addressed. That doesn't change the fact that some people used Hood to deal with them previously and no longer will be able to do so. I'm not going to downplay this issue just bc it's something that will practically never affect me personally.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
I’ve got a lot of specific examples in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IuBRhchjyTiQDKSIJ5d7Aad6NfqQO0Cs19I_UBH-xk/edit but it’s no where close to the amount of places I’ve used him. I’ve used him in Variant1, Variant 5, Variant 6, Act 6, Act 7, Alliance War, Monthly Events, Side Events, you name it. If there’s Buffs, Hood’s there.
His Invisibility might be better for evading basic hits, but he’s losing a prime utility for bypassing multi hit projectile specials. I’ve got examples here:
Thank you for sharing that I actually read your entire article and it was well written , again, I’m Not attacking anyone , just want clarification. If each projectile has a 90% chance to miss , aren’t you netting positive on this? 120-100-90-80
Essentially you are avoiding that 10% chance for 2 guarantee misses? Only on the third will you be back to where you were.
Example : Current hood - Dodging apocalypse SP3 you have a 30% chance to take a hit.
New hood : you have a 10% chance to take a hit.
Your RNG is net positive .
I’m not great with numbers so forgive me if I’m using stats as a flat %
You do calculate things wrong here. But the bigger thing is you may trigger miss while baiting sps. With flat 90% chance it doesn't matter. But if you already triggered it once, you already have lower odds to proc miss on that sp with 3 hits. More hits - even less likely. Could've just make it 100 flat on projectiles, maybe with reduced duration - still would've been far from ghost anyway
Yeah, actually good point. Didn’t think about if you accidentally miss about that. Definitely not on ghost level.
But to put it into perspective starky has a chance to evade all specials by 63% and it always feel pretty safe.
Here's another scenario: push opponent close to sp3, parry, hit (fill third bar of power), use sp3 - and you have 5 hits to power steal, if your invis is on cooldown. And if you power steal, you stop, and you have your opponent in the corner and a lot of time to bait sp2. With 50% power steal one of 5 hits will do it with 97% success rate. Iirc, now only his Ms can power still, i.e. only 2 hits, with 50% will give you only 75% success
“The Hood becomes Immune to all Stun effects. Additionally, Firing a Bullet while Invisible has a 45% chance to Steal 10% of the opponent’s current Power, gaining twice that amount in the process.”
Yes , but you would get double the power back , but yes you lose a higher percentage to steal power back , but since all SP2 are bullets you can essentially Do M*LLLM* SP2 and your chances are a lot higher to steal power back and be right back at an SP2.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock? Or Loki’s buff steal? Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in. It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.
29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.
Colly Magneto She hulk Venom Red hulk Carnage Mole man Kingpin Falcon
These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
Practically none of those champs were used by anyone for anything prior to being changed either. None of them were members of any widely used team even just as synergy pieces to only even rarely be actually used either. Also, none of them actually lost anything in their updates either. The only even somewhat notable piece would be mags sp3 tank which you already addressed. Find me a single person that ranked and used magneto for that ability and I'd be mightily impressed.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Fate seal doesn't seem more important bc of anything to do with stagger. It's important bc it's the only way he can deal with permanent or already existing buffs. A more regular stagger means squat against Venom or Aarkus.
Also, Torch is still awful outside of mystic/energy attack opponents. His balance update did practically nothing. He's excelled in ideal matches and been an absolute chore to use outside of them from day one and still is.
You're free to personally like the changes to Hood (they'll have practically zero effect on me outside of when using a Ghost team which is quite annoying admittedly) but that doesn't change the fact that a core component of his kit is being removed making him worse for lots of other people that either rely on him due to roster limitations or just enjoy using him for his old kit. That's something everyone should have a problem with.
Well if we are discussing permanent buffs I can only think of a few , resistor fury , cruelty on nodes. Vision AA , Annhilus. Overall, I would agree with you that he is less effective against permanent buffs, most of the troublesome buffs in game are can be staggered.
Torches balance update actually did significantly more for him as a character, being able to reverse healing and keep his temperature up is what has allowed him to excel in new matchups I bet he is at the top now. Kabam showed this with data. I’m Not a fan of torch, but as both can’t deny how powerful he has become , especially with regen reversal and magneto bosses and other energy matchups. Lots of people used him for a legend run.
The Hood buffs don’t change my roster too much , but I do have him as R2 , and I never really used him for anything other than synergy and on occasion for some fun. This is a good benefit to me. I again , understand how it can affect some people , but some of those permanent buffs we talk about aren’t trickled throughout the game snd that challenging. There are typically better options. I respect the material used and I debate over and over about my champions. If it’s overall a bad buff Kabam would give compensation , I’m sure.
Torch already reversed healing originally. All they did was slightly increase temperature gain during heavy charge. He's still incredibly tedious to use outside mystic/energy attack opponents where you can build smolder easily. His rise in stock has absolutely nothing to do with his balance update.
Sure, permanent buffs may not be an everyday issue needing to be addressed. That doesn't change the fact that some people used Hood to deal with them previously and no longer will be able to do so. I'm not going to downplay this issue just bc it's something that will practically never affect me personally.
Torch reversed healing originally . The rate at which Temperature increases and how long he could hold temperature actually ties in to how he could reverse it was small changes but a compounding affect on all his abilities , he couldn’t hold temp so very quick incinerate which means no heal. That’s a different convo though.
You are right it doesn’t change the fact that people use them to deal with him, but now he will on paper be a much better character for them overall. I’m not downplaying the issue , I’m just suggesting that we wait until we see what the effect is instead of guessing , including my self this could be a lot like Diablo and be overall trash
This is a comparison of Hoods new invisibility vs projectiles. As you can see, 3 hit is the cut off point when New Hood is worse. After that, he quickly becomes unreliable.
At 6 hits it’s 50% vs 4% that’s insane.
Remember the hard to evade specials that hood is good for are the 4+ specials, there’s only one special. I can think of that can’t be evaded easily thats 3 hits and that’s annihilus. Who Hood won’t even be good against now since you can’t nullify his rod anymore.
That’s really good data thanks for crunching that, not too many 6 hit specials we have. But when it comes to 4 I think that’s reasonable to discuss. I think the most I seen in @Cat_Murdock video was 4 on each of the specials, in theory he only takes on that risk on the 4th hit which can be dodged by the user. With old hood you are taking on that risk for 10% each time , while the old hood you take on the 20% risk once which the user should be able to assist with. I know each hit is it’s on value so that 20% is a bigger risk. But still less of a risk then getting hit each time.
Actually, I think four is the maximum number of those call outs you can see on the screen normally, after that they start overwriting each other. For example, in Cat's video I see four misses against Doom's SP2, but I believe that attack has five components to it: two upward bursts and three beams. I think there's three beams because when you land it you land three incinerates, and the incinerates trigger on each beam hit. So I believe that is five projectile components, and you could argue the last three are more dangerous than the first two due to the incinerate debuffs.
Current Hood would dodge 90% of those Doom projectiles. New Hood would dodge on average 76% of them, and disproportionately take more of the last two than the first two. In terms of incinerate debuffs specifically Current Hood would eat 10% of those, while New Hood would eat 40% of those (20% of the first incinerate projectile, 40% of the second, 60% of the third).
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
No, what nodes , what champs , what particular content
I’ve got a lot of specific examples in here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IuBRhchjyTiQDKSIJ5d7Aad6NfqQO0Cs19I_UBH-xk/edit but it’s no where close to the amount of places I’ve used him. I’ve used him in Variant1, Variant 5, Variant 6, Act 6, Act 7, Alliance War, Monthly Events, Side Events, you name it. If there’s Buffs, Hood’s there.
His Invisibility might be better for evading basic hits, but he’s losing a prime utility for bypassing multi hit projectile specials. I’ve got examples here:
Thank you for sharing that I actually read your entire article and it was well written , again, I’m Not attacking anyone , just want clarification. If each projectile has a 90% chance to miss , aren’t you netting positive on this? 120-100-90-80
Essentially you are avoiding that 10% chance for 2 guarantee misses? Only on the third will you be back to where you were.
Example : Current hood - Dodging apocalypse SP3 you have a 30% chance to take a hit.
New hood : you have a 10% chance to take a hit.
Your RNG is net positive .
I’m not great with numbers so forgive me if I’m using stats as a flat %
You do calculate things wrong here. But the bigger thing is you may trigger miss while baiting sps. With flat 90% chance it doesn't matter. But if you already triggered it once, you already have lower odds to proc miss on that sp with 3 hits. More hits - even less likely. Could've just make it 100 flat on projectiles, maybe with reduced duration - still would've been far from ghost anyway
Yeah, actually good point. Didn’t think about if you accidentally miss about that. Definitely not on ghost level.
But to put it into perspective starky has a chance to evade all specials by 63% and it always feel pretty safe.
Here's another scenario: push opponent close to sp3, parry, hit (fill third bar of power), use sp3 - and you have 5 hits to power steal, if your invis is on cooldown. And if you power steal, you stop, and you have your opponent in the corner and a lot of time to bait sp2. With 50% power steal one of 5 hits will do it with 97% success rate. Iirc, now only his Ms can power still, i.e. only 2 hits, with 50% will give you only 75% success
“The Hood becomes Immune to all Stun effects. Additionally, Firing a Bullet while Invisible has a 45% chance to Steal 10% of the opponent’s current Power, gaining twice that amount in the process.”
Yes , but you would get double the power back , but yes you lose a higher percentage to steal power back , but since all SP2 are bullets you can essentially Do M*LLLM* SP2 and your chances are a lot higher to steal power back and be right back at an SP2.
I would have to test this though.
Wich means you have to have 2 bars of power. I said about sp3, as you get extra attack per opponents bar of power. Atm you could do it almost reliably. After the changes - not really.
Basically they've nerfed all of the actual utility that I regularly play him for, and replaced it with better damage output. But not enough damage output that I'd bother to use him for that purpose, since there are plenty of other champs that will still be better in that area.
Hood was a niche champ. He was basically there for buff suppression, but he was one of the best in game at that particular purpose. This change basically makes him mediocre at it, brings his damage up to also-mediocre levels, and adds in some unnecessarily complicated mechanics to boot. It makes him OK (not great) at several things, instead of great at one.
But being OK at a handful of things isn't going to make him useful for any of them.
The net result of this update is basically going to be to shove Hood to the bench for most people. The only thing he can do now that other champs can't do better is provide a nice synergy for Ghost.
What did you use him for particularly?
What nodes, what champs? Everyone’s statements are so generic , but not giving me real answers.
Amazing Buff Control when it is needed, a reliable miss mechanic against projectiles. Stun immunity and some decent Power Control.
Are those the answers you were looking for? Despite many real answers in this thread being there.
The issue is , you see what happens to amazing champs that were once mediocre Mole Man , Torch etc. these champs had workable kits so a value update made it possible to bring them to the top.
Even if you gave Hood 100% damage it would make him a below average champ, even with Stryfe and boost he was below average. The reason is he did not have a kit to work with bleed , shock, hex, those really weren’t doing anything for him.
The fate seal seems more important than it is because his staggers would sometimes not apply for an entire combo. He now also has much more use outside of specific matchups , most matches needed staggers not fate sale as opposed to the vision AA match. While I do understand people’s frustration, I think they now on paper get much more out of their champ instead of just one piece of utility.
Torch was a utility beast against mystic but struggled outside of every single match that’s because he was not tuned right , once tuned he shines all over. Hood doesn’t have that privilege , he now has utility that allows him to keep up his damage and bonuses if he nullifies buffs.
I talked to a lot of people and when I ask them what did they use hood for particularly , they can’t really give me a straight answer.
Magneto lost his Ability to rank SP3s, which was valuable to me, he also lost his heal block that came in clutch for me at times.
Old man Logan- Regen Passive became a buff ( R5 before update)
These affected me, but magneto is a much better character then he was so is OML.
Balances are apart of game , and Kabam has always been fair if these balances were unfavorable. We can’t decide that yet until Monday. On paper he looks good , but we won’t know until Monday.
Gonna just ignore Cats post giving you specific scenarios? You’re also seemingly ignoring the dangerous precedent this sets with future ‘buffs’
See my response to cats post , I didn’t ignore it.
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
And what happens when the next ‘buff’ Removes Ronans stun lock? Or Loki’s buff steal? Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in. It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
How many buffs have we had in the game so far? I have a R2 hood BTW.
29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.
Colly Magneto She hulk Venom Red hulk Carnage Mole man Kingpin Falcon
These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
Practically none of those champs were used by anyone for anything prior to being changed either. None of them were members of any widely used team even just as synergy pieces to only even rarely be actually used either. Also, none of them actually lost anything in their updates either. The only even somewhat notable piece would be mags sp3 tank which you already addressed. Find me a single person that ranked and used magneto for that ability and I'd be mightily impressed.
I can’t confirm that and neither can you. But, if that is true they based it off their data , Hoods data must have shown something similar, or else he would not be getting a tune up.
I can only speak subjectively, I do know Hood was always considered underrated, but he doesn’t have any core damage mechanics to make him a reasonable option anywhere. If we are discussing mid game players , there are many 4* that can do a better job than Hood can. Now when we get into act 6 someone mentioned a 6.4.6 mystic path that I just reviewed , but will test soon.
I don't understand the thought process behind Hood's choice in the first place... Let alone why someone decided this particular CHANGE was a great idea.
This is why I would side with a more "democratic" approach other than waiting to be surprised by the champs picked to be buffed / tuned up (tuned down?).
C'mon, Let us vote on it. Then lay out the plans for that champ and see what we think about it before work even starts on it. We all know we are the testers anyway. Wouldn't it be wiser to save save Devs' time and player frustration???
Unless the big picture is to always have a big percentage of champions that will largely be unused by the player base. And I get that some champs have to be better than others but don't mess up the Decent champs to make up for "some" buffs of the trash pile that were successful (I say some coz rip DDHK, meh YJ).
As for the stagger chance being increased from 88% to 100%, remember that this is only on critical hits and the staggers do not stack. Along with that, their timer has been decreased from 7.5 seconds to 5 seconds and you can no longer refresh off heavy, making them less reliable for buff control. As I stated before I haven’t got much experience with Hood, but from what I know from other people, some buffs manage to get past his current staggers which is why his fate seal was so useful, plus it got rid of buffs from the beginning of the fight and applied 65% ability accuracy reduction. With the fate seal removed, the gaps that were already there in his staggers are even bigger. Applying them still relies on RNG since he needs to crit, and then they last 66% of their original length, so his ability to control buffs is a lot less reliable than what it is currently. Which would also impact his bullet mechanic since nullifying buffs gives you bullets, which are then used for damage and his awakened ability power drain.
Comments
I do think it goes both ways though, someone will always be affected, either that or the game dies.
Or Loki’s buff steal?
Or gladiator Hulks ‘face me’?
We need to make our voices heard now rather than when it affects a champion we personally have invested in.
It could be too late for Hoods fate seal, but it might not be for other champions in line for a buff.
It’s okay, this community is for disagreements and shared opinions , I just didn’t think it was fair to suggest I didn’t know the game . A little background , I’m in a Map 7x5 ally and have all content done and about 14 R3 Champs.
But to put it into perspective starky has a chance to evade all specials by 63% and it always feel pretty safe.
But it is also true that this is a necessary evil, something that should only be done when it is necessary, for the simple practical reason that if the devs are capricious with this type of behavior, player confidence in the game will erode and that is also bad for the game. On a purely practical level, we want players to be engaged with the game, and invest their time and resources into the game. And that requires trust that those investments will be respected. They are not sacrosanct, but they should be acknowledged.
If a player says the devs should never nerf anything, never change anything in a way the player dislikes, always do the popular thing, that's silly,. and no one has said that more often or more consistently than I have. But I'm not saying any of that here. What I'm saying is that when changes happen they should avoid damaging player investment when possible and practical, and for the basic fundamental reason that respecting players investment is better for the game overall.
And if you think it is presumptuous of me to assume that Hood has lost his ability to remove buffs when the only way he had to remove existing buffs was taken away then sure, I'll accept that judgment. I presume a lot of things that are only 99.99999999% certain rather than 100% certain. Furthermore, the fact that you can read my entire post and still think this is about whether Hood is better or worse is due to another one of my presumptions, this time of literacy.
Well if we are discussing permanent buffs I can only think of a few , resistor fury , cruelty on nodes.
Vision AA , Annhilus. Overall, I would agree with you that he is less effective against permanent buffs, most of the troublesome buffs in game are can be staggered.
Torches balance update actually did significantly more for him as a character, being able to reverse healing and keep his temperature up is what has allowed him to excel in new matchups I bet he is at the top now. Kabam showed this with data. I’m
Not a fan of torch, but as both can’t deny how powerful he has become , especially with regen reversal and magneto bosses and other energy matchups. Lots of people used him for a legend run.
The Hood buffs don’t change my roster too much , but I do have him as R2 , and I never really used him for anything other than synergy and on occasion for some fun. This is a good benefit to me. I again , understand how it can affect some people , but some of those permanent buffs we talk about aren’t trickled throughout the game snd that challenging. There are typically better options. I respect the material used and I debate over and over about my champions. If it’s overall a bad buff Kabam would give compensation , I’m sure.
This is a comparison of Hoods new invisibility vs projectiles. As you can see, 3 hit is the cut off point when New Hood is worse. After that, he quickly becomes unreliable.
At 6 hits it’s 50% vs 4% that’s insane.
Remember the hard to evade specials that hood is good for are the 4+ specials, there’s only one special. I can think of that can’t be evaded easily thats 3 hits and that’s annihilus. Who Hood won’t even be good against now since you can’t nullify his rod anymore.
I literally do not care if he ends up stronger or not for me. That's not my problem. My problem is the devs are trying to make Hood stronger for me at the expense of completely changing him for the players who already invested in him. If I test him and he's better for me, I don't want that improvement at the cost of his core capabilities being ripped out of him that other players were relying upon. And if I test him and he's not better for me, then that just adds comedy on top of tragedy.
To repeat and emphasize: I am not judging the changes. I am judging the necessity of the changes. They were not necessary. The devs should not be doing things that are not necessary that will cause pain for players, especially players doing literally exactly what they want players to be doing which is trying to find uses for the champions rather than only paying attention to tier lists.
Here's the bottom line. We have players like Cat Mudock who found a diamond in the rough with Hood and put their money where their mouth was and invested time and resources to make that champ work for them. And we have players who say they are fools because everybody knows who the best champs are. Everyone has to decide which of those attitudes we want to encourage and support. I've chosen my side. Everyone else has to choose theirs.
29 buffs so far , out of the 29 buffs I can name about 7 that have dominated the Meta. Of course there will be changes that are unfavorable, can you really sit here and see these champs haven’t been great for the game? Objectively you cannot.
Colly
Magneto
She hulk
Venom
Red hulk
Carnage
Mole man
Kingpin
Falcon
These were champs that were once a bust when you pull them, now they are favorites of many people.
Sure, permanent buffs may not be an everyday issue needing to be addressed. That doesn't change the fact that some people used Hood to deal with them previously and no longer will be able to do so. I'm not going to downplay this issue just bc it's something that will practically never affect me personally.
Yes , but you would get double the power back , but yes you lose a higher percentage to steal power back , but since all SP2 are bullets you can essentially Do M*LLLM* SP2 and your chances are a lot higher to steal power back and be right back at an SP2.
I would have to test this though.
You are right it doesn’t change the fact that people use them to deal with him, but now he will on paper be a much better character for them overall. I’m not downplaying the issue , I’m just suggesting that we wait until we see what the effect is instead of guessing , including my self this could be a lot like Diablo and be overall trash
Current Hood would dodge 90% of those Doom projectiles. New Hood would dodge on average 76% of them, and disproportionately take more of the last two than the first two. In terms of incinerate debuffs specifically Current Hood would eat 10% of those, while New Hood would eat 40% of those (20% of the first incinerate projectile, 40% of the second, 60% of the third).
I can only speak subjectively, I do know Hood was always considered underrated, but he doesn’t have any core damage mechanics to make him a reasonable option anywhere. If we are discussing mid game players , there are many 4* that can do a better job than Hood can. Now when we get into act 6 someone mentioned a 6.4.6 mystic path that I just reviewed , but will test soon.
This is why I would side with a more "democratic" approach other than waiting to be surprised by the champs picked to be buffed / tuned up (tuned down?).
C'mon, Let us vote on it. Then lay out the plans for that champ and see what we think about it before work even starts on it. We all know we are the testers anyway. Wouldn't it be wiser to save save Devs' time and player frustration???
Unless the big picture is to always have a big percentage of champions that will largely be unused by the player base. And I get that some champs have to be better than others but don't mess up the Decent champs to make up for "some" buffs of the trash pile that were successful (I say some coz rip DDHK, meh YJ).