Hood Changes - Discussion [Merged Threads]

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  • OrdersixtysixOrdersixtysix Posts: 11
    edited March 4
    Personally I liked using hood but not enough since there’s way better mystic champs but after his buff it made me love it, who cares about his fate seal gr can do it mordo punishes for buffs doc strange nullifys buffs automatically bwcv grants buff immunity. but if y’all pull this bs with cyclops when his buffs roll around then you might wanna go get checked
  • HdhjssvvHdhjssvv Posts: 25

    Hdhjssvv said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Hdhjssvv said:

    I’ve just lost a ton of iso and a generic 1-2 6 star gem for nothing basically ffs man I don’t want mystic cats from rank down gems but I got no choice and I prob won’t get my gold back
    Generic 1-2 6 star gems are so rare aswell

    Hood that was released was bugged as hell. He would have been toned down and you would have been dissapointed then. Now, we can wait for a buff where kabam keep his core mechanics and add some damage so that everyone can be happy. I took hood to r2 before even knowing he was getting buffed, so your investment is not wasted. He is a good champ and hopefully will become better.
    Not even about bugs mate invisible was cool reliable
    Damage was great and even without bugs would have been good but now I’ve lost a rare resource for someone no kidding I’ve never used before buff
    The Invisible would've been useless after 3-4 hits, as opposed to the current one where he can Miss basically any Ranged attack and half the Melee attacks. The infinite loop was also bugged, so he'd still have to dash back and stay vulnerable for a while. His new Awakened ability worked only on Invisibility, leaving him absolutely useless while he was recharging. I miss the buff as well, as I was a huge fan of the infinite miss loop, but it's really not worth all that utility nerf. Now, we can be assured of a bug-free buff where he retains his utility as well as gets the damage back.
    Firstly no direspect but 3 hits of invisible if your using it as a intercept fail safe is more than enough to cycle to sp2 and refresh so it was acc great
    It may be useless for you if you can’t intercept which may be the case for you but others can do it
  • CosmicGuardianCosmicGuardian Posts: 163 ★★
    Hdhjssvv said:

    Hdhjssvv said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Hdhjssvv said:

    I’ve just lost a ton of iso and a generic 1-2 6 star gem for nothing basically ffs man I don’t want mystic cats from rank down gems but I got no choice and I prob won’t get my gold back
    Generic 1-2 6 star gems are so rare aswell

    Hood that was released was bugged as hell. He would have been toned down and you would have been dissapointed then. Now, we can wait for a buff where kabam keep his core mechanics and add some damage so that everyone can be happy. I took hood to r2 before even knowing he was getting buffed, so your investment is not wasted. He is a good champ and hopefully will become better.
    Not even about bugs mate invisible was cool reliable
    Damage was great and even without bugs would have been good but now I’ve lost a rare resource for someone no kidding I’ve never used before buff
    The Invisible would've been useless after 3-4 hits, as opposed to the current one where he can Miss basically any Ranged attack and half the Melee attacks. The infinite loop was also bugged, so he'd still have to dash back and stay vulnerable for a while. His new Awakened ability worked only on Invisibility, leaving him absolutely useless while he was recharging. I miss the buff as well, as I was a huge fan of the infinite miss loop, but it's really not worth all that utility nerf. Now, we can be assured of a bug-free buff where he retains his utility as well as gets the damage back.
    Firstly no direspect but 3 hits of invisible if your using it as a intercept fail safe is more than enough to cycle to sp2 and refresh so it was acc great
    It may be useless for you if you can’t intercept which may be the case for you but others can do it
    From what I know the invisibility was bugged as I saw multiple videos where it would activate even though it was on cool down so I don’t know how reliable it would’ve been to keep it up then refresh with the sp2.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 6,015 ★★★★★
    I actually liked the change to invisibility. Being able to use it as a counter attack mechanism like Ghost was pretty sweet
  • HdhjssvvHdhjssvv Posts: 25

    Hdhjssvv said:

    Hdhjssvv said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Hdhjssvv said:

    I’ve just lost a ton of iso and a generic 1-2 6 star gem for nothing basically ffs man I don’t want mystic cats from rank down gems but I got no choice and I prob won’t get my gold back
    Generic 1-2 6 star gems are so rare aswell

    Hood that was released was bugged as hell. He would have been toned down and you would have been dissapointed then. Now, we can wait for a buff where kabam keep his core mechanics and add some damage so that everyone can be happy. I took hood to r2 before even knowing he was getting buffed, so your investment is not wasted. He is a good champ and hopefully will become better.
    Not even about bugs mate invisible was cool reliable
    Damage was great and even without bugs would have been good but now I’ve lost a rare resource for someone no kidding I’ve never used before buff
    The Invisible would've been useless after 3-4 hits, as opposed to the current one where he can Miss basically any Ranged attack and half the Melee attacks. The infinite loop was also bugged, so he'd still have to dash back and stay vulnerable for a while. His new Awakened ability worked only on Invisibility, leaving him absolutely useless while he was recharging. I miss the buff as well, as I was a huge fan of the infinite miss loop, but it's really not worth all that utility nerf. Now, we can be assured of a bug-free buff where he retains his utility as well as gets the damage back.
    Firstly no direspect but 3 hits of invisible if your using it as a intercept fail safe is more than enough to cycle to sp2 and refresh so it was acc great
    It may be useless for you if you can’t intercept which may be the case for you but others can do it
    Would you rather miss a couple of hits or an entire Special and a couple of hits? I get why you're salty, but if the vast majority of the forums had an issue with it then there's a good reason for it. Hardly anyone protested against Magneto or Terrax or Kingpin, and that's because those were actual buffs built around their core utility. You can't replace an entire champ with something that's brand new, as people Rank Up those champs for that utility.
    There’s better buff removal options though having a fun champ once in a while doesn’t hurt
  • HdhjssvvHdhjssvv Posts: 25
    And I lost a generic 1-2 gem which hurts more as I’ll get mystic cars from rank down which I don’t need lost a rare resource
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 4,051 ★★★★★

    I actually liked the change to invisibility. Being able to use it as a counter attack mechanism like Ghost was pretty sweet

    Honestly leave it as it was on the new one for normal attacks, but for projectile double the chance.

    So he has 120,100,80,60,40 % etc for normal
    But 240,200,160,120,80 for projectiles. That would be awesome
  • Speedro420Speedro420 Posts: 869 ★★★
    Hdhjssvv said:

    And I lost a generic 1-2 gem which hurts more as I’ll get mystic cars from rank down which I don’t need lost a rare resource

    Send in a ticket, this is a unique situation and RDT’s are coming. Ask if they will restore Hood back to R1 and place the gem back to you. I’d say the chance is pretty good as that is a rare resource.
  • HdhjssvvHdhjssvv Posts: 25

    Hdhjssvv said:

    And I lost a generic 1-2 gem which hurts more as I’ll get mystic cars from rank down which I don’t need lost a rare resource

    Send in a ticket, this is a unique situation and RDT’s are coming. Ask if they will restore Hood back to R1 and place the gem back to you. I’d say the chance is pretty good as that is a rare resource.
    How do you make a complaint on it mate
  • Speedro420Speedro420 Posts: 869 ★★★
    edited March 4
    Hdhjssvv said:

    Hdhjssvv said:

    And I lost a generic 1-2 gem which hurts more as I’ll get mystic cars from rank down which I don’t need lost a rare resource

    Send in a ticket, this is a unique situation and RDT’s are coming. Ask if they will restore Hood back to R1 and place the gem back to you. I’d say the chance is pretty good as that is a rare resource.
    How do you make a complaint on it mate
    In game there a tab to send in a ticket. I believe there is a page on here that shows exactly how to do it. Use the search function and it should come up. The tab says support in game. There is a little ⚙️ icon in the top left of the home page. Click that and hit the support tab.
  • Primerprime5Primerprime5 Posts: 789 ★★★
    Perhaps a combination of the two playstyles would work. I honestly liked new-old Hood, but the removal of Fate Seal...sealed his fate.

    They can literally bring back the same kit with Fate Seal and a higher starting point for the Miss (around 150% or so) or give that Regen back, and I'll be perfectly happy. Even with fixed invisibility that isn't infinite that would be a sick build-up imo.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,227 Guardian
    Pulyaman said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    .

    Agresssor said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Agresssor said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Agresssor said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Agresssor said:

    Or maybe, if he couldn't place a stagger from crit hits if the opponent has already a stagger ( for ex: omega red heavy attack degen ) but in this case your staggers will be less effective if you need to wait 5 sec to place a new stagger

    His regen was a bonus and not a core mechanic. You could for example place a stagger, back off, wait for it to expire, place on again. Do it 10 times and you gained 10% health. You don't generally use that stagger for regen though. If you are bringing Hood, it is for buff control.
    I understand but its very stupid, the old hood has 7.5 stagger duration, for regen you need at least 1 critical hit to place a stagger than wait 7.5 seconds without touching the opponent, but its very risky and the regen doesnt not worth this effort. If i need to do that at least 10 times, with 7.5 seconds it will take 75 seconds for 10% health, with new hood = 50 seconds, very very impractical if you focus on regeneration


    for people like me who play with suicide, his post-fix regen is no longer compatible with suicide
    The regen is not part of his core gameplay, only a emergency ability. Like warlocks heal, its pretty bad but its there. If you think about it Hood pre-buff was actually good with suicides. You only needed to fire one sp2 to control all the buffs. You could just refresh the fate seal and not fire another special again. Something to think about.
    Right now, after regen fix. Why such a bonus that will work 1 time per fight otherwise you will have to play very passively to regen. The New Hood regen was very good on every crit hit for suicides players before they fix it. I could even compensate the recoil mastery :DDDDD

    Fateseal its a good thing but dam... that regen.... bring the regen back

    The regen was too OP. I don't know how you are not getting this. There was no balance with the regen. It was simply healing for doing basic combo. You realize that Kabam modified Kingpin and DDHK regen to 40% just because of will power heal. You thought they would leave this kind of regen in a champion?
    They could cut the regen by half or change the mechanic .

    this only proves once again that kabam does not test the buffs/characters before the update
    You said it yourself, you were able to heal more than suicides (including recoil damage) was taking away.
    Sounds pretty OP to me.
    You have to really understand the game and all its nuances to know if that kind of rule works. cf: Angela. I'll bet 99% of the player population is unaware of Angela's ability's interaction with suicides. I actually forgot about it until the Angela update reminded me.
    Tbf I completely forgot about that until you mentioned it, even so I don’t think Angela’s regen is quite as strong as Hood getting however much HP it was back on every crit.
    I was replying to the statement that if a champion has mechanics that allow them to heal back way more than suicides remove players should know that is OP. There are cases where that's not true, or at least the developers don't think it is true. Angela was just the obvious example of such.
    @DNA3000 I know very well about angela since I have her as a 6 star duped. People saw "regen" "OP" from my post and went with it. We have lots of champs that mitigate recoil damage. Namor somewhat, darkhawk gains 10% every time you change stances are some. My point was the developers will not leave a regen that comes from doing nothing but basic combo without any trade off like power or damage. Even Angela does not have that insane regen. With max recovery mastery, I think it comes to 5-6 % of her health. But remember that it is not instant and it is not stackable. You cannot get back to full health even with that regen, you can mitigate recoil damage but cannot reverse that. Unlike the regen on Hood, which as people showed, can have you finish with a almost full yellow bar even with full suicide masteries. That was why it was OP, not because it was simply a regen.
    Angela with liquid courage and willpower can recover infinite health. She also doesn't need to do anything to get that health recovery: theoretically speaking she could spend the entire fight just dodging the enemy from one percent health and eventually recover all the way up to full. Granted it is not fast recovery, but it is unlimited recovery. You can get back to full yellow bar.
  • So how do I go about getting the generic awaking gem back that I used on hood becuase his changes were good?
  • BendyBendy Posts: 1,354 ★★★

    So how do I go about getting the generic awaking gem back that I used on hood becuase his changes were good?

    U wont get that back
  • AleorAleor Posts: 2,647 ★★★★

    So how do I go about getting the generic awaking gem back that I used on hood becuase his changes were good?

    @LegendaryBobe
    contact support, I don't think there are a lot of requests like that
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 1,645 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    .

    Agresssor said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Agresssor said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Agresssor said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Agresssor said:

    Or maybe, if he couldn't place a stagger from crit hits if the opponent has already a stagger ( for ex: omega red heavy attack degen ) but in this case your staggers will be less effective if you need to wait 5 sec to place a new stagger

    His regen was a bonus and not a core mechanic. You could for example place a stagger, back off, wait for it to expire, place on again. Do it 10 times and you gained 10% health. You don't generally use that stagger for regen though. If you are bringing Hood, it is for buff control.
    I understand but its very stupid, the old hood has 7.5 stagger duration, for regen you need at least 1 critical hit to place a stagger than wait 7.5 seconds without touching the opponent, but its very risky and the regen doesnt not worth this effort. If i need to do that at least 10 times, with 7.5 seconds it will take 75 seconds for 10% health, with new hood = 50 seconds, very very impractical if you focus on regeneration


    for people like me who play with suicide, his post-fix regen is no longer compatible with suicide
    The regen is not part of his core gameplay, only a emergency ability. Like warlocks heal, its pretty bad but its there. If you think about it Hood pre-buff was actually good with suicides. You only needed to fire one sp2 to control all the buffs. You could just refresh the fate seal and not fire another special again. Something to think about.
    Right now, after regen fix. Why such a bonus that will work 1 time per fight otherwise you will have to play very passively to regen. The New Hood regen was very good on every crit hit for suicides players before they fix it. I could even compensate the recoil mastery :DDDDD

    Fateseal its a good thing but dam... that regen.... bring the regen back

    The regen was too OP. I don't know how you are not getting this. There was no balance with the regen. It was simply healing for doing basic combo. You realize that Kabam modified Kingpin and DDHK regen to 40% just because of will power heal. You thought they would leave this kind of regen in a champion?
    They could cut the regen by half or change the mechanic .

    this only proves once again that kabam does not test the buffs/characters before the update
    You said it yourself, you were able to heal more than suicides (including recoil damage) was taking away.
    Sounds pretty OP to me.
    You have to really understand the game and all its nuances to know if that kind of rule works. cf: Angela. I'll bet 99% of the player population is unaware of Angela's ability's interaction with suicides. I actually forgot about it until the Angela update reminded me.
    Tbf I completely forgot about that until you mentioned it, even so I don’t think Angela’s regen is quite as strong as Hood getting however much HP it was back on every crit.
    I was replying to the statement that if a champion has mechanics that allow them to heal back way more than suicides remove players should know that is OP. There are cases where that's not true, or at least the developers don't think it is true. Angela was just the obvious example of such.
    @DNA3000 I know very well about angela since I have her as a 6 star duped. People saw "regen" "OP" from my post and went with it. We have lots of champs that mitigate recoil damage. Namor somewhat, darkhawk gains 10% every time you change stances are some. My point was the developers will not leave a regen that comes from doing nothing but basic combo without any trade off like power or damage. Even Angela does not have that insane regen. With max recovery mastery, I think it comes to 5-6 % of her health. But remember that it is not instant and it is not stackable. You cannot get back to full health even with that regen, you can mitigate recoil damage but cannot reverse that. Unlike the regen on Hood, which as people showed, can have you finish with a almost full yellow bar even with full suicide masteries. That was why it was OP, not because it was simply a regen.
    Angela with liquid courage and willpower can recover infinite health. She also doesn't need to do anything to get that health recovery: theoretically speaking she could spend the entire fight just dodging the enemy from one percent health and eventually recover all the way up to full. Granted it is not fast recovery, but it is unlimited recovery. You can get back to full yellow bar.
    So can hood. You can simply apply stagger and wait for it to expire till you hit the the yellow bar. My point being that you need to sacrifice something in order to gain. With Angela you are spending time to recover the health. With the bugged hood, it was nothing.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 1,645 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    .

    Agresssor said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Agresssor said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Agresssor said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Agresssor said:

    Or maybe, if he couldn't place a stagger from crit hits if the opponent has already a stagger ( for ex: omega red heavy attack degen ) but in this case your staggers will be less effective if you need to wait 5 sec to place a new stagger

    His regen was a bonus and not a core mechanic. You could for example place a stagger, back off, wait for it to expire, place on again. Do it 10 times and you gained 10% health. You don't generally use that stagger for regen though. If you are bringing Hood, it is for buff control.
    I understand but its very stupid, the old hood has 7.5 stagger duration, for regen you need at least 1 critical hit to place a stagger than wait 7.5 seconds without touching the opponent, but its very risky and the regen doesnt not worth this effort. If i need to do that at least 10 times, with 7.5 seconds it will take 75 seconds for 10% health, with new hood = 50 seconds, very very impractical if you focus on regeneration


    for people like me who play with suicide, his post-fix regen is no longer compatible with suicide
    The regen is not part of his core gameplay, only a emergency ability. Like warlocks heal, its pretty bad but its there. If you think about it Hood pre-buff was actually good with suicides. You only needed to fire one sp2 to control all the buffs. You could just refresh the fate seal and not fire another special again. Something to think about.
    Right now, after regen fix. Why such a bonus that will work 1 time per fight otherwise you will have to play very passively to regen. The New Hood regen was very good on every crit hit for suicides players before they fix it. I could even compensate the recoil mastery :DDDDD

    Fateseal its a good thing but dam... that regen.... bring the regen back

    The regen was too OP. I don't know how you are not getting this. There was no balance with the regen. It was simply healing for doing basic combo. You realize that Kabam modified Kingpin and DDHK regen to 40% just because of will power heal. You thought they would leave this kind of regen in a champion?
    They could cut the regen by half or change the mechanic .

    this only proves once again that kabam does not test the buffs/characters before the update
    You said it yourself, you were able to heal more than suicides (including recoil damage) was taking away.
    Sounds pretty OP to me.
    You have to really understand the game and all its nuances to know if that kind of rule works. cf: Angela. I'll bet 99% of the player population is unaware of Angela's ability's interaction with suicides. I actually forgot about it until the Angela update reminded me.
    Tbf I completely forgot about that until you mentioned it, even so I don’t think Angela’s regen is quite as strong as Hood getting however much HP it was back on every crit.
    I was replying to the statement that if a champion has mechanics that allow them to heal back way more than suicides remove players should know that is OP. There are cases where that's not true, or at least the developers don't think it is true. Angela was just the obvious example of such.
    @DNA3000 I know very well about angela since I have her as a 6 star duped. People saw "regen" "OP" from my post and went with it. We have lots of champs that mitigate recoil damage. Namor somewhat, darkhawk gains 10% every time you change stances are some. My point was the developers will not leave a regen that comes from doing nothing but basic combo without any trade off like power or damage. Even Angela does not have that insane regen. With max recovery mastery, I think it comes to 5-6 % of her health. But remember that it is not instant and it is not stackable. You cannot get back to full health even with that regen, you can mitigate recoil damage but cannot reverse that. Unlike the regen on Hood, which as people showed, can have you finish with a almost full yellow bar even with full suicide masteries. That was why it was OP, not because it was simply a regen.
    Angela with liquid courage and willpower can recover infinite health. She also doesn't need to do anything to get that health recovery: theoretically speaking she could spend the entire fight just dodging the enemy from one percent health and eventually recover all the way up to full. Granted it is not fast recovery, but it is unlimited recovery. You can get back to full yellow bar.
    So can hood. You can simply apply stagger and wait for it to expire till you hit the the yellow bar. My point being that you need to sacrifice something in order to gain. With Angela you are spending time to recover the health. With the bugged hood, it was nothing.
    Yes, so can Hood. But you keep saying Angela cannot do this, that Angela is completely different from Hood. You said "Even Angela does not have that insane regen. With max recovery mastery, I think it comes to 5-6 % of her health. But remember that it is not instant and it is not stackable. You cannot get back to full health even with that regen, you can mitigate recoil damage but cannot reverse that. Unlike the regen on Hood, which as people showed, can have you finish with a almost full yellow bar even with full suicide masteries. That was why it was OP, not because it was simply a regen."

    However, Angela can do the exact same thing: she can end the fight with a full yellow bar as you put it. I'm honestly not sure why you keep saying Angela cannot end the fight with a full bar of health unless you aren't aware of her interactions with suicides. And while bugged Hood under optimal conditions can heal more health than Angela with suicides, in practice bugged Hood was more likely to heal a similar amount to Angela, and sometimes less. And this isn't factoring in situations where Hood's crit chance is debuffed: I'm talking about the case where Hood's numbers are unaltered.

    Hood's best case scenario is about 35% better than suicide Angela, but in practice you were probably actually getting about the same as suicide Angela. If bugged Hood has "insane regen" then suicide Angela is right there with him.
    Ok, this could be because of the update because she could not do that before the update. But, my point still stands, if you want to finish with the full health bar, you need to play slowly which you don't need to do with Hood. And his regen was instant where as hers was over time. Hers was a buff where as Hood's was not. She needed awakening and a high sig for that kind of regen to be viable, his was not. If it was not OP, I am not understanding what OP means.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,227 Guardian
    Pulyaman said:

    Ok, this could be because of the update because she could not do that before the update. But, my point still stands, if you want to finish with the full health bar, you need to play slowly which you don't need to do with Hood. And his regen was instant where as hers was over time. Hers was a buff where as Hood's was not. She needed awakening and a high sig for that kind of regen to be viable, his was not. If it was not OP, I am not understanding what OP means.

    Angela's interaction with suicides was not due to the update and also doesn't even require Angela to be awakened. I'm pretty sure at this point you aren't aware of what that interaction is, so I'll explain.

    Angela triggers a 5% heal every time you take 10% damage. So on her own, you can only heal back half the damage you take. That part is straight forward, and due to her intrinsic heal. Now let's add suicides. Specifically, let's add Liquid Courage.

    You'd think LC would make things worse, because poison reduces the effectiveness of healing. And it does make Angela's intrinsic heal worse. Now, for every 10% damage she takes she is only going to heal back 3.5% instead of 5%. On top of that, she's going to be taking poison damage. For (almost) any other champion, this makes things even worse because you cannot break even on LC with Willpower. LC deals 0.6% health per second, and the best you can do with Willpower plus Recovery is about 0.8%. But that gets reduced to about 0.56%/sec due to the effects of poison. So the net loss from LC and Willpower is about 0.04%. This is the normal suicide calculation.

    But here's the Angela trick. Angela procs a heal whenever she takes an accumulated 10% damage. That includes the damage she's taking from LC. So every time LC deals 10% more damage, Angela procs another heal. And another. And another. Every 16.7 seconds LC will deal about 10% damage, and Angela will trigger another heal. During that 16.7 seconds Angela will take a net 0.67% health in damage (because she's healing most of it due to Willpower). Then she'll proc a heal which because of poison will heal back 3.5% health over ten seconds. So over the next 16.7 seconds she'll take another 0.67% health in damage but get back 3.5% over the first ten seconds of that window, which nets about 2.8% health every 16.7 seconds, or about 0.17% health per second. And while it does take place over time, it is not a long window of time. For all intents and purposes, this is almost a continuous regeneration.

    For comparison, bugged Hood was healing about 1% for every stagger refresh, so about 1% for every critical hit. Typically, you'd maybe average about 30-60 attacks per minute playing normally overall, so let's look at the middle case of about 45 attacks per minute (in this case, I'm calling anything that can generate a crit to be "an attack"). In that case, Hood will crit on about 45 x 0.23 = 10.35 attacks and heal for 10.35% health per minute.

    Angela with Liquid Courage (and Willpower+Recovery) heals for about 10.2% health per minute (0.17%/sec x 60s = 10.2%). Now, does it matter that Angela's heal takes place over time? It depends on how short or long the fight is. Since the healing we're talking about is the Liquid Courage driven heal, this doesn't stack up like resilience charges do when you take a burst of damage. Angela gets the full benefit of that heal before LC generates another resilience stack. So the worst case scenario is relative to Hood Angela loses one cycle of it. On average, she's going to actually lose 16.5% of one heal (because the average case is the fight ending in the middle of a 16.7s cycle which would already have generated 8.35s of that cycle's healing). That's about 0.58% of a health bar.

    Now, because (bugged) Hood's regen was due to critical hits, it was subject to random variations. Some people could see far higher heal, but they could also see far lower heal. The *average* case, however, is similar to suicide Angela.

    What if you take a lot of damage suddenly? Then because the heals can't stack, it will take a lot of time for the resilience charges to work one at a time. But that's no different from Hood, who needs the fight to last a while to land enough crits to get that health back. Hood can get lucky and land a ton of crits all at once, and get the healing all at once (I'm still talking about the bugged Hood here). But he can also get unlucky and get no healing at all. In the long run, it averages out. Suicide Angela's heal is constant and unchanging so it is very reliable. If you end the fight with a lot of resilience stacks you will lose that healing. But conversely the LC-driven heal starts soon after the fight starts and continues no matter what you're doing, whether you're attacking, baiting specials, or whatever.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 1,645 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Ok, this could be because of the update because she could not do that before the update. But, my point still stands, if you want to finish with the full health bar, you need to play slowly which you don't need to do with Hood. And his regen was instant where as hers was over time. Hers was a buff where as Hood's was not. She needed awakening and a high sig for that kind of regen to be viable, his was not. If it was not OP, I am not understanding what OP means.

    Angela's interaction with suicides was not due to the update and also doesn't even require Angela to be awakened. I'm pretty sure at this point you aren't aware of what that interaction is, so I'll explain.

    Angela triggers a 5% heal every time you take 10% damage. So on her own, you can only heal back half the damage you take. That part is straight forward, and due to her intrinsic heal. Now let's add suicides. Specifically, let's add Liquid Courage.

    You'd think LC would make things worse, because poison reduces the effectiveness of healing. And it does make Angela's intrinsic heal worse. Now, for every 10% damage she takes she is only going to heal back 3.5% instead of 5%. On top of that, she's going to be taking poison damage. For (almost) any other champion, this makes things even worse because you cannot break even on LC with Willpower. LC deals 0.6% health per second, and the best you can do with Willpower plus Recovery is about 0.8%. But that gets reduced to about 0.56%/sec due to the effects of poison. So the net loss from LC and Willpower is about 0.04%. This is the normal suicide calculation.

    But here's the Angela trick. Angela procs a heal whenever she takes an accumulated 10% damage. That includes the damage she's taking from LC. So every time LC deals 10% more damage, Angela procs another heal. And another. And another. Every 16.7 seconds LC will deal about 10% damage, and Angela will trigger another heal. During that 16.7 seconds Angela will take a net 0.67% health in damage (because she's healing most of it due to Willpower). Then she'll proc a heal which because of poison will heal back 3.5% health over ten seconds. So over the next 16.7 seconds she'll take another 0.67% health in damage but get back 3.5% over the first ten seconds of that window, which nets about 2.8% health every 16.7 seconds, or about 0.17% health per second. And while it does take place over time, it is not a long window of time. For all intents and purposes, this is almost a continuous regeneration.

    For comparison, bugged Hood was healing about 1% for every stagger refresh, so about 1% for every critical hit. Typically, you'd maybe average about 30-60 attacks per minute playing normally overall, so let's look at the middle case of about 45 attacks per minute (in this case, I'm calling anything that can generate a crit to be "an attack"). In that case, Hood will crit on about 45 x 0.23 = 10.35 attacks and heal for 10.35% health per minute.

    Angela with Liquid Courage (and Willpower+Recovery) heals for about 10.2% health per minute (0.17%/sec x 60s = 10.2%). Now, does it matter that Angela's heal takes place over time? It depends on how short or long the fight is. Since the healing we're talking about is the Liquid Courage driven heal, this doesn't stack up like resilience charges do when you take a burst of damage. Angela gets the full benefit of that heal before LC generates another resilience stack. So the worst case scenario is relative to Hood Angela loses one cycle of it. On average, she's going to actually lose 16.5% of one heal (because the average case is the fight ending in the middle of a 16.7s cycle which would already have generated 8.35s of that cycle's healing). That's about 0.58% of a health bar.

    Now, because (bugged) Hood's regen was due to critical hits, it was subject to random variations. Some people could see far higher heal, but they could also see far lower heal. The *average* case, however, is similar to suicide Angela.

    What if you take a lot of damage suddenly? Then because the heals can't stack, it will take a lot of time for the resilience charges to work one at a time. But that's no different from Hood, who needs the fight to last a while to land enough crits to get that health back. Hood can get lucky and land a ton of crits all at once, and get the healing all at once (I'm still talking about the bugged Hood here). But he can also get unlucky and get no healing at all. In the long run, it averages out. Suicide Angela's heal is constant and unchanging so it is very reliable. If you end the fight with a lot of resilience stacks you will lose that healing. But conversely the LC-driven heal starts soon after the fight starts and continues no matter what you're doing, whether you're attacking, baiting specials, or whatever.
    I knew as soon as I saw a wall of text that it would be you. 😂. I am not sure how practical the way you describe her playstyle is because that is not how I use her. But I will assume you are right. I can only explain what I experienced and what I saw.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 1,645 ★★★★★
    edited March 5
    DNA3000 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Ok, this could be because of the update because she could not do that before the update. But, my point still stands, if you want to finish with the full health bar, you need to play slowly which you don't need to do with Hood. And his regen was instant where as hers was over time. Hers was a buff where as Hood's was not. She needed awakening and a high sig for that kind of regen to be viable, his was not. If it was not OP, I am not understanding what OP means.

    Angela's interaction with suicides was not due to the update and also doesn't even require Angela to be awakened. I'm pretty sure at this point you aren't aware of what that interaction is, so I'll explain.
    .
    I have to say that was a pretty condescending way to start the message though. I did not say every regen was OP. But, regen has to come with a cost. Hood did not have that.
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