Were We Playing Guardian Wrong?

SpinnakerSpinnaker Member Posts: 271 ★★★
in General Discussion
When I was first learning about playing Guardian, I always heard people say that I should go for the sp1 and then the sp2 for shorter fights, and for longer fights, I should go for the sp3 to build charges and then launch a massive sp2. Everyone was saying this, so I never really questioned it... until now
https://youtu.be/dXTuG07afA8
I ended up finding that for a damage rotation, the sp3 rotation isn't the fastest for longer fights. This is primarily because of that long special 3 animation, but the results were definitely surprising.

Before people jump to disagree, there are a few things I want to clear up. Even though the sp1 to sp2 rotation yields better damage in shorter bursts, there are definitely times where the sp3 rotation will be more ideal. For example, fights where you want 100% uptime on your armor up buff for its utility, and fights like selective timestream where you need to burst the opponent down quickly.

In other scenarios though (and especially when unawakened), I think the community may have jumped the gun in prioritizing the sp2 damage burst for longer fights (although I could be wrong).

This isn't 100% tested (I've done quite a few rounds to support this hypothesis) so I'm curious to hear what you all think

Comments

  • TheLegend27TheLegend27 Member Posts: 1,317 ★★★★★
    SP3 beats out SP1 spam if you run suicides.
  • FancysonFancyson Member Posts: 75 ★
    Spinnaker said:

    When I was first learning about playing Guardian, I always heard people say that I should go for the sp1 and then the sp2 for shorter fights, and for longer fights, I should go for the sp3 to build charges and then launch a massive sp2. Everyone was saying this, so I never really questioned it... until now
    https://youtu.be/dXTuG07afA8
    I ended up finding that for a damage rotation, the sp3 rotation isn't the fastest for longer fights. This is primarily because of that long special 3 animation, but the results were definitely surprising.

    Before people jump to disagree, there are a few things I want to clear up. Even though the sp1 to sp2 rotation yields better damage in shorter bursts, there are definitely times where the sp3 rotation will be more ideal. For example, fights where you want 100% uptime on your armor up buff for its utility, and fights like selective timestream where you need to burst the opponent down quickly.

    In other scenarios though (and especially when unawakened), I think the community may have jumped the gun in prioritizing the sp2 damage burst for longer fights (although I could be wrong).

    This isn't 100% tested (I've done quite a few rounds to support this hypothesis) so I'm curious to hear what you all think

    I don't even have guardian so I can't say much for the practicality of his rotations. The one thing that I will point out is that you didn't consider the time lost from the sp3 animation. From 4 special 3s, that may have made the difference.
  • SpinnakerSpinnaker Member Posts: 271 ★★★
    edited April 2021
    Fancyson said:


    I don't even have guardian so I can't say much for the practicality of his rotations. The one thing that I will point out is that you didn't consider was the time lost from the sp3 animation. From 4 special 3s, that may have made the difference.

    Spinnaker said:


    I ended up finding that for a damage rotation, the sp3 rotation isn't the fastest for longer fights. This is primarily because of that long special 3 animation, but the results were definitely surprising.

    I did catch it but I purposely factored that into the timing because it factors into the timing for modes of gameplay like alliance war (and it also takes up your time as the player :smile: )
  • FancysonFancyson Member Posts: 75 ★
    edited April 2021
    That's a good point actually. I can see that being important against an aq or aw boss.
  • Will3808Will3808 Member Posts: 3,805 ★★★★★
    The mistake people make is simplifying it say use sp1 in short fights and sp3 in long fights. I always use the sp1 if I don’t need specific utility of damage in the fight. It’s a simpler rotation. I use the sp3 when you need more armor in like a havok matchup or in a slow fight when the charges from the sp1 would drop off before you can use an sp2.
  • SpinnakerSpinnaker Member Posts: 271 ★★★
    Will3808 said:

    The mistake people make is simplifying it say use sp1 in short fights and sp3 in long fights. I always use the sp1 if I don’t need specific utility of damage in the fight. It’s a simpler rotation. I use the sp3 when you need more armor in like a havok matchup or in a slow fight when the charges from the sp1 would drop off before you can use an sp2.

    I completely agree! I just never understood that simplification until I got better with Guardian to understand that it would be faster. It's also less stressful because accidentally dying before launching the massive sp2 feels awful.
  • JadedJaded Member Posts: 5,477 ★★★★★
    Spinnaker said:

    No_oneuk said:

    TL:DR, sp1 into sp2 spam is what he's suggesting - there, i saved 9 minutes of your lives.

    testing winter soldier:
    sp3 spam to sp2 around 3:35
    sp1 to sp2 cycle around 3:05

    ooh sorry I should have posted it. Thanks for the tldr and nice catch!
    9 minutes of my life gone, just wasted and gone.

    Kidding. I almost never go to his sp3. Fights are done quick enough.
  • CorkscrewCorkscrew Member Posts: 541 ★★★
    Will3808 said:

    The mistake people make is simplifying it say use sp1 in short fights and sp3 in long fights. I always use the sp1 if I don’t need specific utility of damage in the fight. It’s a simpler rotation. I use the sp3 when you need more armor in like a havok matchup or in a slow fight when the charges from the sp1 would drop off before you can use an sp2.

    I would almost say the opposite if you're fighting Havok. You don't want to do an SP3 and then SP2 if you're not absolutely positive that you're going to do enough to kill him. Especially with Havok's energy resistance. Speaking from experience... Variant 7, was happily taking down Havok and went for an SP3 and then SP2 thinking it would end him... well, it didn't he dropped all his plasmas when my armor dropped and it was pretty much instant death. In the end it didn't matter, cleared the path regardless... it was eye opening though.

    On lower health pools, I think that's fine to drop the armor.

    I still think that Guardian is underrated. His energy resistance is crazy at max sig. V1 there are some horrible Magik and Electro fights. He eats those for breakfast. Especially the Magik fights with energize where I've not seen suitable counters other than Magik herself. (triggering limbo to counter limbo). Using any other power control like Doom or BWCV... they're nuked within a couple triggers of limbo. Guardian can easily solo those fights.
  • DefenestratedDefenestrated Member Posts: 304 ★★★
    Corkscrew said:

    Will3808 said:

    The mistake people make is simplifying it say use sp1 in short fights and sp3 in long fights. I always use the sp1 if I don’t need specific utility of damage in the fight. It’s a simpler rotation. I use the sp3 when you need more armor in like a havok matchup or in a slow fight when the charges from the sp1 would drop off before you can use an sp2.

    I would almost say the opposite if you're fighting Havok. You don't want to do an SP3 and then SP2 if you're not absolutely positive that you're going to do enough to kill him. Especially with Havok's energy resistance. Speaking from experience... Variant 7, was happily taking down Havok and went for an SP3 and then SP2 thinking it would end him... well, it didn't he dropped all his plasmas when my armor dropped and it was pretty much instant death. In the end it didn't matter, cleared the path regardless... it was eye opening though.

    On lower health pools, I think that's fine to drop the armor.

    I still think that Guardian is underrated. His energy resistance is crazy at max sig. V1 there are some horrible Magik and Electro fights. He eats those for breakfast. Especially the Magik fights with energize where I've not seen suitable counters other than Magik herself. (triggering limbo to counter limbo). Using any other power control like Doom or BWCV... they're nuked within a couple triggers of limbo. Guardian can easily solo those fights.
    You’re supposed to heavy before using your SP2 to gain another armor up buff so you don’t lose health.
  • CorkscrewCorkscrew Member Posts: 541 ★★★
    Defenestrated said:

    Corkscrew said:

    Will3808 said:

    The mistake people make is simplifying it say use sp1 in short fights and sp3 in long fights. I always use the sp1 if I don’t need specific utility of damage in the fight. It’s a simpler rotation. I use the sp3 when you need more armor in like a havok matchup or in a slow fight when the charges from the sp1 would drop off before you can use an sp2.

    I would almost say the opposite if you're fighting Havok. You don't want to do an SP3 and then SP2 if you're not absolutely positive that you're going to do enough to kill him. Especially with Havok's energy resistance. Speaking from experience... Variant 7, was happily taking down Havok and went for an SP3 and then SP2 thinking it would end him... well, it didn't he dropped all his plasmas when my armor dropped and it was pretty much instant death. In the end it didn't matter, cleared the path regardless... it was eye opening though.

    On lower health pools, I think that's fine to drop the armor.

    I still think that Guardian is underrated. His energy resistance is crazy at max sig. V1 there are some horrible Magik and Electro fights. He eats those for breakfast. Especially the Magik fights with energize where I've not seen suitable counters other than Magik herself. (triggering limbo to counter limbo). Using any other power control like Doom or BWCV... they're nuked within a couple triggers of limbo. Guardian can easily solo those fights.
    You’re supposed to heavy before using your SP2 to gain another armor up buff so you don’t lose health.
    Yeah... That would have been a better safety net. Thought he was done and dusted. Live and learn... Wait no....die and learn.
  • SpinnakerSpinnaker Member Posts: 271 ★★★
    Jaded said:

    Spinnaker said:

    No_oneuk said:

    TL:DR, sp1 into sp2 spam is what he's suggesting - there, i saved 9 minutes of your lives.

    testing winter soldier:
    sp3 spam to sp2 around 3:35
    sp1 to sp2 cycle around 3:05

    ooh sorry I should have posted it. Thanks for the tldr and nice catch!
    9 minutes of my life gone, just wasted and gone.

    Kidding. I almost never go to his sp3. Fights are done quick enough.
    Definitely. That's why I said this isn't anything groundbreaking but it's one of those things that is good to know
    Corkscrew said:

    Will3808 said:

    The mistake people make is simplifying it say use sp1 in short fights and sp3 in long fights. I always use the sp1 if I don’t need specific utility of damage in the fight. It’s a simpler rotation. I use the sp3 when you need more armor in like a havok matchup or in a slow fight when the charges from the sp1 would drop off before you can use an sp2.

    I would almost say the opposite if you're fighting Havok. You don't want to do an SP3 and then SP2 if you're not absolutely positive that you're going to do enough to kill him. Especially with Havok's energy resistance. Speaking from experience... Variant 7, was happily taking down Havok and went for an SP3 and then SP2 thinking it would end him... well, it didn't he dropped all his plasmas when my armor dropped and it was pretty much instant death. In the end it didn't matter, cleared the path regardless... it was eye opening though.

    On lower health pools, I think that's fine to drop the armor.

    I still think that Guardian is underrated. His energy resistance is crazy at max sig. V1 there are some horrible Magik and Electro fights. He eats those for breakfast. Especially the Magik fights with energize where I've not seen suitable counters other than Magik herself. (triggering limbo to counter limbo). Using any other power control like Doom or BWCV... they're nuked within a couple triggers of limbo. Guardian can easily solo those fights.
    I also think this is useful to people with unawakened Guardians, because when you're not getting the utility from the armor (apart from the occasional Havok) and you just want damage, it's good to know
  • IronGladiator22IronGladiator22 Member Posts: 1,712 ★★★★
    edited April 2021
    Yeah but I like big damage, so where I can, I would rather satisfy myself :smile:
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Defenestrated said:

    Corkscrew said:

    Will3808 said:

    The mistake people make is simplifying it say use sp1 in short fights and sp3 in long fights. I always use the sp1 if I don’t need specific utility of damage in the fight. It’s a simpler rotation. I use the sp3 when you need more armor in like a havok matchup or in a slow fight when the charges from the sp1 would drop off before you can use an sp2.

    I would almost say the opposite if you're fighting Havok. You don't want to do an SP3 and then SP2 if you're not absolutely positive that you're going to do enough to kill him. Especially with Havok's energy resistance. Speaking from experience... Variant 7, was happily taking down Havok and went for an SP3 and then SP2 thinking it would end him... well, it didn't he dropped all his plasmas when my armor dropped and it was pretty much instant death. In the end it didn't matter, cleared the path regardless... it was eye opening though.

    On lower health pools, I think that's fine to drop the armor.

    I still think that Guardian is underrated. His energy resistance is crazy at max sig. V1 there are some horrible Magik and Electro fights. He eats those for breakfast. Especially the Magik fights with energize where I've not seen suitable counters other than Magik herself. (triggering limbo to counter limbo). Using any other power control like Doom or BWCV... they're nuked within a couple triggers of limbo. Guardian can easily solo those fights.
    You’re supposed to heavy before using your SP2 to gain another armor up buff so you don’t lose health.
    This
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