If relics become lootboxy i wont be pleased. If they are not lootboxy im all for it - What they could do is work the concept of relics but add it as an enhancement to the mastery system. No RNG rolls. You unlock it. This is the relic you get. A new section of masteries. No time limit to unlock on any exclusive ""only if you beat this limited pay to win quest ****""...... Unlock at your own pace via credits like other masteries or untimed ingame objective/challenge... Can pick any 1 champ to use mastery perk attachment on ....like a prefight ability mastery at the start of any run.
Making it gear like with random rolls, or lootboxy with random chance to get will make everyone angry... we are already subject to lootbox and gambling and overpriced offers....
Any feature like this needs to be implemented as a way to enhance players experience. As a thank you for playing our game... not another how can i suck as much cash from you as possible....
Ive been saying masteries are an untapped resource for great potential for a long time.
Can build it like a skill tree around your style of play or champs.
Masteries work because they are there. They enhance different styles of play/champs You know what your going to get. And everyone can eventually get them.
Fair No RNG. Not pay to win. Because you can grind units. If you want to pay you can. The only way relics will be favorable.
Sometimes you just have to improve the core fundamentals of your game and add content that make everyones play more enjoyable. To keep people engaged and happy.
Then ask for money on other things.
Who wants to live with a roomate that charges you a dime everytime you drink a glass of water.
People dont like to feel like all you want is to nickle and dime them over everything. - And if thats not your plan... This time... - You still have horrible pop up offers ever 10 minutes that no one in their right mind would buy kabam... Can you really blame everyone for being so defensive and worried about relics?
They are equipped at fight start, provide additional abilities/utility and are not specifically part of the champions core attributes (although they do modify them).
If relics look like boosts, then it’s potentially not as problematic unless the team goes overboard with them. Which they very well might, if it makes them money.
They are equipped at fight start, provide additional abilities/utility and are not specifically part of the champions core attributes (although they do modify them).
If relics look like boosts, then it’s potentially not as problematic unless the team goes overboard with them. Which they very well might, if it makes them money.
Dr. Zola
I made this exact same point earlier. We're already boosting or have them available. Relics would be the same thing.
They are equipped at fight start, provide additional abilities/utility and are not specifically part of the champions core attributes (although they do modify them).
If relics look like boosts, then it’s potentially not as problematic unless the team goes overboard with them. Which they very well might, if it makes them money.
Dr. Zola
I made this exact same point earlier. We're already boosting or have them available. Relics would be the same thing.
I don’t see the fuss if it is similarly limited. Potential for a lot of shenanigans and unintended interactions, yes—but it’s along the same lines.
If it involves, for example, giving OGCap the ability to go unstoppable and incinerate opponents, then I’m less impressed with it. If it means OGCap (again, an example) gains bleed or disorient effects on some of his attacks, that’s less of an issue.
I will go one further: making someone a Horseman is akin to relics/gears. Seems to be a hit in game as far as I can see.
I will go one further: making someone a Horseman is akin to relics/gears. Seems to be a hit in game as far as I can see.
Dr. Zola
Thank you for saying this, because it’s the total truth — we can sit here and pretend otherwise, but if you have Professor X or Odin or Magneto (HoX) or Apocalypse or Mister Fantastic, etc., you are already using various attributes that could easily be Relics
I know people hate change and very few people want to see the introduction of things that cost money to shift the balance of the game, especially those who are wired into alliances
But for me, honestly?
I think there are characters who could really benefit from a system of Relics. I really do
Take someone like Thor (Jane Foster). There’s pretty good stuff in the kit. Just lacks DPS
If there was a three-slot Relic system where you could put in, say, a Basic Attack enhancement, a Special Attack enhancement, and Block Proficiency, I’m sorry, what is the harm in having that system available to players instead of waiting for a buff that might not ever come
There are so many kits where Kabam was very close in making them “feel right.” But these people, the Dev team, are only human. The game keeps evolving. Hit pools can be huge. Attack values can be huge. They’re trying to create challenging content for the endgame, accessible content for developing rosters, without introducing broken characters into the game that they have to nerf
They’re trying to be balanced in a game where Hawkeye fights Thanos 1v1
I understand that some people don’t like Relics or Gears or whatever, but at some point, they’re going to stop reworking characters. I am one of the people who wanted a robust program of buffs, and Kabam has done it, but nothing last forever and eventually, some character has to be the floor
If your favorite character is the least powerful in the game but you still want to try to use it, but no buff is coming ever, then Relics is a way to help
Just my opinion. People should always have more options to play games the way they want to play them that are within reason and accessible to all
Then people should choose about whether they want to continue
I was certainly here when Gears got shouted down around 12.0 and I thought it was a mistake that set this game back for years, when so many characters needed help
There was talk about “gears” a few months before 12.0 and the playerbase was very much against it.
The problem with that is that was like 5 years ago. We didn't have or barely had/saw 5*'s at that point. There was still tons of room for roster progression. We did NEED any gearing system back there because we knew 5*'s were coming.
We don't really know if 7*'s will ever be introduced but seeing as 6*'s have been in the contest for roughly 3 years and we can just now take them to R3 recently. Kabam has to look at ways of roster progression that may not include 7*'s. Gear or Relics are that way to keep growing a roster without adding in star rarities.
Well it didn’t work out too well for injustice and that’s why I stopped playing that game. So far most of the feedback on relics/gear is the same as it was in 2016-2017.
Well how many of the people who are against Relics know what that system entails? How much information do you have to go off of currently? Zero other than Kabam is floating the idea of Relics out there. I'd like to see what the concept is before going off the deep end.
Did you see all the people who said the new AQ system with links won't work? They all said they won't be able to finish the map etc... well after they actually did the map, you don't see the complaints anymore.
Maybe save the harsh judgement until you get some more information.
Apparently my post was removed so let’s try again .
There’s no harsh judgement if you read the 2 posts I made. I keep an open mind and hope for the best but like others, am skeptical about its implementation.
I don’t see why people think rng/paywall based gear will be any different from our current situation, if they decide to release 7 stars instead you still wont be able to pull the ones you want. But that’s assuming relics are even able to be bought or put in a crystal so just wait as see then judge.
We don't need relics at the moment, we are far from getting a rank 5 6* and even when that time arrives, why don't they introduce an item to keep progressing our 6*, a rebirth, promotion, New ranks or any other idea, not relics that gives bonuses in exchange of cash
The argument that Gear “allows devs to do whatever they want” and that they can break the game — seriously. Are people even playing the same game I am
You know how many things have been introduced over the last 6-plus years that “broke the game” that impacted the entire player base and MCoC just kept right on going
Once upon a time, there were no dupes. And Star-Lord was just another character with Fury on his base kit
Then the devs “did whatever they wanted” and introduced duped abilities, including the Star-Lord ramp-up mechanic based on absolutely nothing in comics lore
That was the exact moment this game became “haves” and “have-nots”: duped abilities that made some characters into Star-Lord and some characters into Ant-Man’s glancing
The game has not been “even” or “fair” in years. Alliances make the game uneven. RNG makes the game uneven
Nothing is going to make this game more uneven or unfair than one guy opening the same kind of crystal and pulling Apocalypse and another guy pulling Deadpool X-Force
I'm not concerned... YET. Kabam is trying to evolve the game so as not to become stale and die. They tried ROOT and we have not seen it again. If RELICS work, great. If they suck, there will be a 100 page protest post on the forums... and Kabam will go back to the drawing board (the same way they rolled back the Hood buff).
Relics need to be a mastery supplement. Not a pay walled requirement to play. With enough player input before execution, Relics can be a game changer. Time will tell. 👀
The argument that Gear “allows devs to do whatever they want” and that they can break the game — seriously. Are people even playing the same game I am
Technically, Relics can break the game. Given only the description provided so far, they can literally do anything.
But that potential is already in the devs hands. Anything they can do with gear they can just shove into the next champion they release. They can make that champion appear exclusively in cash only crystals. If Kabam was the mustache twirling evil money grubbers some people claim they are, there would be lots of ways to do all the evil things they worry about for Relics using the systems that already exist.
The difficult thing is explaining why they don't in fact do that. Odin is a walking Relic. Why didn't Kabam just sell him? Why didn't they make him a 0.02% drop in Featured crystals like the Punisher is in arena crystals?
People are always worried about what Kabam might do, as if they have any control over what Kabam does. Relics are just a system. Its some code, some templates, and some data. Relics don't fundamentally change how Kabam monetizes the game or balances the game. What Relics do is expose some of those things to the players in gameplay form. Players participate in the Relic system. They don't participate in champion design.
Arguing for or against Relics is not arguing for or against power or balance. What Kabam wants to do, they will do with Relics or with something else. Champions will get those abilities with or without the Relic system. Kabam will make the same amount of money with or without Relics. The question of artifacts comes down to player agency. Should players have ways to make some customizable choices in how their champions work, or not?
Also community: Horseman Cable/Gambit/Wolverine are awesome. I want Odin for Ghost. Check out these what we did with these hacks in incursions.
Kabam: 🤦
There’s a major difference there. Synergies are a part of this game’s foundation, they’ve been around for a long time. Relics would fundamentally change the way the fame is played and you would spend years chasing the best relics to outfit your characters while chasing rankup materials. I don’t want to do that, and tbh I’m most likely quitting when relics come out, unless they find a phenomenal way to introduce them, which I severely doubt. I play gear based games, I like them. This is not a game that needs gear. It would ruin it. There’s already so much left to chance, why do we need more ways for rng to screw us over?
Grey boosts might be gear because they change base abilities (tank sp3 etc..) but they're too general so I wouldn't count them. Real gear targets specific champions.
That's an interesting definition. So when a player picks up a sword in an MMO and equips it on their character, if that sword is not specifically targeted at their character (or at least type of character) you wouldn't count that as gear?
I would actually not define gear that way. "Gear" that is specific to one specific champion is less a piece of gear and more a kind of unlock. The champion could theoretically have an ability sheet with every possible piece of champion-specific gear greyed out on it, and finding that drop would just unlock that box without having to actually use or equip anything.
Gear is just a mechanical system, and almost all related mechanical systems can mimic each other in games like this. But I believe what makes gear "gear" relative to other kinds of customization systems, both in terms of the pros and the cons, is potency and economy. The more potent (strong) gear is relative to the wielder, the more it feels like gear. Weapons in games with weapons feels like gear because the damage you deal is far more a function of the weapon you wield than your intrinsic abilities most of the time. The weapon doesn't just improve damage, it is closer to defining damage. The more potent it is, the more likely it is to be perceived to be gear. That's why a 20% champion boost doesn't feel as much like gear. It only modifies your existing strength, and by only a relatively small percentage amount. Your champion is more itself than the boost.
The economy surrounding gear relates to how we acquire it, and how we develop and improve it. We could argue that an awakening gem is like a weapon: you equip it and it gives you a power. And then you can improve it with sig stones, like improving the stats of a weapon. So why do most people not think of awakening gems as gear? I think this is because unlike with most gear systems, we don't really have a choice in what kind of "awakening weapon" we wield. Signature abilities are baked into the champion, and we cannot change them. So we don't go hunting for better awakenings for our champions. All awakening stones (that are class applicable) function identically. That makes it less gear-like. And while sig stones "improve" signature abilities, there's less of a sense that we have to have the "best" one. Prestige aside, a lot of times people are willing to settle for "good enough" when it comes to signature level. The signature 151 ability isn't always noticeably better than the signature 141 ability. So for most players, sig stones seem less like a gear enhancement and more of an ability modifier.
Also community: Horseman Cable/Gambit/Wolverine are awesome. I want Odin for Ghost. Check out these what we did with these hacks in incursions.
Kabam: 🤦
There’s a major difference there. Synergies are a part of this game’s foundation, they’ve been around for a long time. Relics would fundamentally change the way the fame is played and you would spend years chasing the best relics to outfit your characters while chasing rankup materials. I don’t want to do that, and tbh I’m most likely quitting when relics come out, unless they find a phenomenal way to introduce them, which I severely doubt. I play gear based games, I like them. This is not a game that needs gear. It would ruin it. There’s already so much left to chance, why do we need more ways for rng to screw us over?
It's all speculation right now. No one knows what this system will include but some are pretending they know it all.
I'd rather just wait until we actually have all the facts first.
But to what I said above, Relics/gear or whatever change add too a Champions abilities just like added benefits like with Apoc and horseman abilities.
Kabam has to go somewhere. 6*'s have been out for quite awhile and we still can't take them to R4 yet. I don't think Kabam is ready for 7*'s and I don't think the player base is either. Kab has to think of a way to keep some form of a progression level going for sometime. I'd just like to see more info on relics before passing total judgement.
Relics will ruin this game and I will finally be done. I’m a big spender too but at that point I’m done being milked...
I still can't wrap my head around comments like this. You have nothing but a blip of a reference in a sec diary for information and acting like it the end of the world.
Relics will ruin this game and I will finally be done. I’m a big spender too but at that point I’m done being milked...
I still can't wrap my head around comments like this. You have nothing but a blip of a reference in a sec diary for information and acting like it the end of the world.
I noticed you have 999 likes and let me give you the 1 required for 1000
The argument that Gear “allows devs to do whatever they want” and that they can break the game — seriously. Are people even playing the same game I am
You know how many things have been introduced over the last 6-plus years that “broke the game” that impacted the entire player base and MCoC just kept right on going
Once upon a time, there were no dupes. And Star-Lord was just another character with Fury on his base kit
Then the devs “did whatever they wanted” and introduced duped abilities, including the Star-Lord ramp-up mechanic based on absolutely nothing in comics lore
That was the exact moment this game became “haves” and “have-nots”: duped abilities that made some characters into Star-Lord and some characters into Ant-Man’s glancing
The game has not been “even” or “fair” in years. Alliances make the game uneven. RNG makes the game uneven
Nothing is going to make this game more uneven or unfair than one guy opening the same kind of crystal and pulling Apocalypse and another guy pulling Deadpool X-Force
Dupes aren't gear. They are clearly defined abilities that are set in stone and permanently added to a character and can't be removed or switched out. Only a rare buff to that champ can change that, and they don't change a third time.
Gear is something you plug in and out any time and abilities be anything. It can also change a characters identity completely. Is OG Cap with Ghost's Phasing Relic really Cap?
I hate to break this to people, but in this game, whatever Kabam says a character’s abilities are, are what those abilities are.
Where does Vision have Power Burn/Power Steal? Here. OG Black Widow’s Ability Accuracy reduction? That’s just code in the KabamVerse. StarkTech’s burst of healing for OG Iron Man, Superior Iron Man and Iron Patriot? Where is that from, again?
You cannot tell me that one set of made-up things is totally fine just because Kabam did it years ago, but another set of things isn’t fine because...what? Some people don’t like it?
Once upon a time, dupes were not a thing...until Kabam made them a thing. Just because we got used to them doesn’t mean Kabam can’t do anything else
Relics will ruin this game and I will finally be done. I’m a big spender too but at that point I’m done being milked...
I still can't wrap my head around comments like this. You have nothing but a blip of a reference in a sec diary for information and acting like it the end of the world.
Just wait and see. That will completely change the game. If you love this game and it doesn’t make you nervous.....it should.
Comments
If they are not lootboxy im all for it
-
What they could do is work the concept of relics but add it as an enhancement to the mastery system.
No RNG rolls.
You unlock it. This is the relic you get.
A new section of masteries.
No time limit to unlock on any exclusive ""only if you beat this limited pay to win quest ****""......
Unlock at your own pace via credits like other masteries or untimed ingame objective/challenge...
Can pick any 1 champ to use mastery perk attachment on
....like a prefight ability mastery at the start of any run.
Making it gear like with random rolls, or lootboxy with random chance to get will make everyone angry... we are already subject to lootbox and gambling and overpriced offers....
Any feature like this needs to be implemented as a way to enhance players experience. As a thank you for playing our game... not another how can i suck as much cash from you as possible....
As mando would say.
This is the way.
I think for relics to work. Have relics be a new section of equiptable masteries
no relic only obtainable through limited events
Or
Cryatals.
The concept is great.
Im all for adding depth to the game.
It would fit in nicely as a mastery addition.
But it needs to be equally fair and obtainable for everyone in time with 100% certainty if you do pay x units. This is the relic mastery you get.
No RNG. No loot box. No whale only obtainable relics. No limited time only event relics.
Can build it like a skill tree around your style of play or champs.
Masteries work because they are there.
They enhance different styles of play/champs
You know what your going to get.
And everyone can eventually get them.
Fair
No RNG. Not pay to win. Because you can grind units. If you want to pay you can. The only way relics will be favorable.
Then ask for money on other things.
Who wants to live with a roomate that charges you a dime everytime you drink a glass of water.
People dont like to feel like all you want is to nickle and dime them over everything.
-
And if thats not your plan...
This time...
-
You still have horrible pop up offers ever 10 minutes that no one in their right mind would buy kabam...
Can you really blame everyone for being so defensive and worried about relics?
but the objectives cant be limited....its not a good system if other people cant get them if they miss it...
Thats why a drop down menu of available relics to obtain needs to be there. Like a mastery tab So people can work to obtain them at their own pace.
Please dont impliment it through luck we already have to pray to Rngesus just to get champs to even play with...we have enough of that already.
They are equipped at fight start, provide additional abilities/utility and are not specifically part of the champions core attributes (although they do modify them).
If relics look like boosts, then it’s potentially not as problematic unless the team goes overboard with them. Which they very well might, if it makes them money.
Dr. Zola
If it involves, for example, giving OGCap the ability to go unstoppable and incinerate opponents, then I’m less impressed with it. If it means OGCap (again, an example) gains bleed or disorient effects on some of his attacks, that’s less of an issue.
I will go one further: making someone a Horseman is akin to relics/gears. Seems to be a hit in game as far as I can see.
Dr. Zola
I will go one further: making someone a Horseman is akin to relics/gears. Seems to be a hit in game as far as I can see.
Dr. Zola
Thank you for saying this, because it’s the total truth — we can sit here and pretend otherwise, but if you have Professor X or Odin or Magneto (HoX) or Apocalypse or Mister Fantastic, etc., you are already using various attributes that could easily be Relics
I know people hate change and very few people want to see the introduction of things that cost money to shift the balance of the game, especially those who are wired into alliances
But for me, honestly?
I think there are characters who could really benefit from a system of Relics. I really do
Take someone like Thor (Jane Foster). There’s pretty good stuff in the kit. Just lacks DPS
If there was a three-slot Relic system where you could put in, say, a Basic Attack enhancement, a Special Attack enhancement, and Block Proficiency, I’m sorry, what is the harm in having that system available to players instead of waiting for a buff that might not ever come
There are so many kits where Kabam was very close in making them “feel right.” But these people, the Dev team, are only human. The game keeps evolving. Hit pools can be huge. Attack values can be huge. They’re trying to create challenging content for the endgame, accessible content for developing rosters, without introducing broken characters into the game that they have to nerf
They’re trying to be balanced in a game where Hawkeye fights Thanos 1v1
I understand that some people don’t like Relics or Gears or whatever, but at some point, they’re going to stop reworking characters. I am one of the people who wanted a robust program of buffs, and Kabam has done it, but nothing last forever and eventually, some character has to be the floor
If your favorite character is the least powerful in the game but you still want to try to use it, but no buff is coming ever, then Relics is a way to help
Just my opinion. People should always have more options to play games the way they want to play them that are within reason and accessible to all
Then people should choose about whether they want to continue
I was certainly here when Gears got shouted down around 12.0 and I thought it was a mistake that set this game back for years, when so many characters needed help
There’s no harsh judgement if you read the 2 posts I made. I keep an open mind and hope for the best but like others, am skeptical about its implementation.
Maybe don’t judge me.
You know how many things have been introduced over the last 6-plus years that “broke the game” that impacted the entire player base and MCoC just kept right on going
Once upon a time, there were no dupes. And Star-Lord was just another character with Fury on his base kit
Then the devs “did whatever they wanted” and introduced duped abilities, including the Star-Lord ramp-up mechanic based on absolutely nothing in comics lore
That was the exact moment this game became “haves” and “have-nots”: duped abilities that made some characters into Star-Lord and some characters into Ant-Man’s glancing
The game has not been “even” or “fair” in years. Alliances make the game uneven. RNG makes the game uneven
Nothing is going to make this game more uneven or unfair than one guy opening the same kind of crystal and pulling Apocalypse and another guy pulling Deadpool X-Force
Kabam is trying to evolve the game so as not to become stale and die.
They tried ROOT and we have not seen it again.
If RELICS work, great. If they suck, there will be a 100 page protest post on the forums... and Kabam will go back to the drawing board (the same way they rolled back the Hood buff).
Relics need to be a mastery supplement. Not a pay walled requirement to play. With enough player input before execution, Relics can be a game changer.
Time will tell. 👀
But that potential is already in the devs hands. Anything they can do with gear they can just shove into the next champion they release. They can make that champion appear exclusively in cash only crystals. If Kabam was the mustache twirling evil money grubbers some people claim they are, there would be lots of ways to do all the evil things they worry about for Relics using the systems that already exist.
The difficult thing is explaining why they don't in fact do that. Odin is a walking Relic. Why didn't Kabam just sell him? Why didn't they make him a 0.02% drop in Featured crystals like the Punisher is in arena crystals?
People are always worried about what Kabam might do, as if they have any control over what Kabam does. Relics are just a system. Its some code, some templates, and some data. Relics don't fundamentally change how Kabam monetizes the game or balances the game. What Relics do is expose some of those things to the players in gameplay form. Players participate in the Relic system. They don't participate in champion design.
Arguing for or against Relics is not arguing for or against power or balance. What Kabam wants to do, they will do with Relics or with something else. Champions will get those abilities with or without the Relic system. Kabam will make the same amount of money with or without Relics. The question of artifacts comes down to player agency. Should players have ways to make some customizable choices in how their champions work, or not?
Also community: Horseman Cable/Gambit/Wolverine are awesome. I want Odin for Ghost. Check out these what we did with these hacks in incursions.
Kabam: 🤦
I would actually not define gear that way. "Gear" that is specific to one specific champion is less a piece of gear and more a kind of unlock. The champion could theoretically have an ability sheet with every possible piece of champion-specific gear greyed out on it, and finding that drop would just unlock that box without having to actually use or equip anything.
Gear is just a mechanical system, and almost all related mechanical systems can mimic each other in games like this. But I believe what makes gear "gear" relative to other kinds of customization systems, both in terms of the pros and the cons, is potency and economy. The more potent (strong) gear is relative to the wielder, the more it feels like gear. Weapons in games with weapons feels like gear because the damage you deal is far more a function of the weapon you wield than your intrinsic abilities most of the time. The weapon doesn't just improve damage, it is closer to defining damage. The more potent it is, the more likely it is to be perceived to be gear. That's why a 20% champion boost doesn't feel as much like gear. It only modifies your existing strength, and by only a relatively small percentage amount. Your champion is more itself than the boost.
The economy surrounding gear relates to how we acquire it, and how we develop and improve it. We could argue that an awakening gem is like a weapon: you equip it and it gives you a power. And then you can improve it with sig stones, like improving the stats of a weapon. So why do most people not think of awakening gems as gear? I think this is because unlike with most gear systems, we don't really have a choice in what kind of "awakening weapon" we wield. Signature abilities are baked into the champion, and we cannot change them. So we don't go hunting for better awakenings for our champions. All awakening stones (that are class applicable) function identically. That makes it less gear-like. And while sig stones "improve" signature abilities, there's less of a sense that we have to have the "best" one. Prestige aside, a lot of times people are willing to settle for "good enough" when it comes to signature level. The signature 151 ability isn't always noticeably better than the signature 141 ability. So for most players, sig stones seem less like a gear enhancement and more of an ability modifier.
I'd rather just wait until we actually have all the facts first.
But to what I said above, Relics/gear or whatever change add too a Champions abilities just like added benefits like with Apoc and horseman abilities.
Kabam has to go somewhere. 6*'s have been out for quite awhile and we still can't take them to R4 yet. I don't think Kabam is ready for 7*'s and I don't think the player base is either. Kab has to think of a way to keep some form of a progression level going for sometime. I'd just like to see more info on relics before passing total judgement.
Where does Vision have Power Burn/Power Steal? Here.
OG Black Widow’s Ability Accuracy reduction? That’s just code in the KabamVerse.
StarkTech’s burst of healing for OG Iron Man, Superior Iron Man and Iron Patriot? Where is that from, again?
You cannot tell me that one set of made-up things is totally fine just because Kabam did it years ago, but another set of things isn’t fine because...what? Some people don’t like it?
Once upon a time, dupes were not a thing...until Kabam made them a thing. Just because we got used to them doesn’t mean Kabam can’t do anything else