You can undermine any champion by putting them against worst case scenarios.
Agreed, but that doesn’t prove Hercules is the best cosmic
Why doesn’t it? CGR has higher damage? Corvus has a better immortality? CMM can has the better indestructible? Hercules has all of the above, and is practical to use. CGR vs Hercules when it comes to damage isn’t determined, corvus has the better immortality but that doesn’t make hercules any less valuable in comparison to the other champs, CMM has the better indestructible but hercules only really has it to tank sp3s by using his sp3, and his immortality acts like his indestructible, so where you would have died, you would have your last stand. Hyperion isn’t a 6* unfortunately but has some crazy power gain and furies that can keep up with these champs, is poison immune, has incinerates, his cosmic potential, armor break, nice stun on sp2, and regen. Hercules has these insane abilities, the immortality, indestructible, damage. He may not use it as well as the others do individually, but he has it in one kit, that works together well, in his own unique way.
I mean you pretty much ignored all of CGR'S and Hype's utility but ok.
Post is mainly to show hercules can do what most of these champs can do with ease. CGR has his power lock and heal block but would you say that makes him better than hercules? Immortality is a powerful ability, which is why corvus is so highly valued, along with his crits, which hercules can do within 1 special 1. CGR is also highly valued for his crits. Would you say this is true?
Corvus has a more valuable immortality imo
It lasts however long you can keep your charges, which could be the whole fight in the hands of a skilled player. Additionally, Hercules’ can expire after time. Plus it can be nullified.
While this is true, hercules with the immortality also gains unblockable, allowing him to be aggressive extending the time of his immortality. In shorter fights it usually takes 1 sp1, then 1 sp2 to get big damage off of the opponent before he dies, similar to CGR and Corvus when they fire their big sp2s.
See, your argument is heavily flawed. All your doing is going on and on about herc, and just saying “oh they can do it too”. Lame.
And your argument is to undermine the value of hercules? Lame
Matter a fact im being a bit hypocritical, i didnt mention the others utility much, only hercules. Ignore this.
I think why this thread hasn’t been received as well is due to a couple reasons. First Herc is new, and I’m not sure about others but I tend not to trust the first month hype of a new champion and wait for them to settle into the contest. We get the hype from the content creators and then months later some champs are just forgotten. I’m not sure this will happen to Herc but you get my point. It’s very hard to make a case for a champ being the best in their class when they’ve been released for weeks.
I mean look at the hype we had for champs like Stryfe (mutant aegon) and hit monkey (skill Corvus) not to say those champs are bad, but the amount they were hyped vs how much they’re hyped now is very different.
Secondly, you very clearly weren’t objective in the OP, I think you’ve realised that now so I won’t pile on about it. But glossing over the opposing sides abilities is always gonna get people suspicious about how valid your opinion is.
Herc could potentially end up being awesome, and maybe there’s a version of the future where he’s considered better than Corvus, CGR and Hyp, but right now I think it’s too early to tell. He’s cool, but we need more time to see what he can do.
Very accurate. Im going based off gameplay i have seen from him, the content has cleared, his practically, and viability to content like AQ, act 6/7, war offense/defense. In due time when more people have him, this will show. Right now people are probably leaning to the OGS.
I've seen a few vids where herc was used on offense in war. It worked out for them on those occasions. I've talked with numerous folks where it didn't work out for them.
I wouldn't say his immortality is a strength. Not in war. Not when deaths matter so much. It is not a given and I'd hate to be relying on it then have to explain to my ally mates that it didn't trigger and I died.... sorry we lost. Just cause you've seen it work in a vid don't mean it's reliable.
No context whatsoever. Why wouldn’t it trigger? Did you only use herc? What nodes/matchups? In war he’s stun immune, and the AI is already aggressive. His immortality is a safety net that also allows him to go unblockable as well. and his true sense on sp1 counters autoblock and miss. That’s great for war.
Assassin prevents it from triggering making it unreliable and unsafe
20% chance. He has more going on for him than just immortality, he still has big damage on sp2, base attacks for that matter, true sense on sp1, immune to stun, and his indestructible on sp3 if needed to tank the opponents sp3. If all fails and you get a combo to the face, it’s a 1 in 5 chance your immortality doesn’t trigger. Guess it’s up to the player if they want to take that risk.
Eh, in war that’s too fine a margin to leave things up to a 20% chance. If you had an 80% chance to power drain an opponent with your l1 would you push them to an sp3?
I would bait their sp2 since there is no risk. Would the opponent be confident my immortality doesn’t trigger with a 20% chance.
why does the opponent need to be confident that your immortality won't trigger? The opponent places with assassin's on and that]'s it. It's upto you if you wanna go into a fight and hope that your immortality triggers. You wont be leaving anything to chance if you're playing serious war.
You can undermine any champion by putting them against worst case scenarios.
Agreed, but that doesn’t prove Hercules is the best cosmic
Why doesn’t it? CGR has higher damage? Corvus has a better immortality? CMM can has the better indestructible? Hercules has all of the above, and is practical to use. CGR vs Hercules when it comes to damage isn’t determined, corvus has the better immortality but that doesn’t make hercules any less valuable in comparison to the other champs, CMM has the better indestructible but hercules only really has it to tank sp3s by using his sp3, and his immortality acts like his indestructible, so where you would have died, you would have your last stand. Hyperion isn’t a 6* unfortunately but has some crazy power gain and furies that can keep up with these champs, is poison immune, has incinerates, his cosmic potential, armor break, nice stun on sp2, and regen. Hercules has these insane abilities, the immortality, indestructible, damage. He may not use it as well as the others do individually, but he has it in one kit, that works together well, in his own unique way.
You’re not addressing what I said. You said you can undermine any champ with their worst case scenario and I said that doesn’t prove Herc being the best.
In regards to what you said, I’ll refer you to what I said before - this could be new champ hype and we don’t know yet. Wait for Herc to settle in and we will know at a later time. He seems promising, but chucking parts of other champs together isn’t proof a champion is the best.
Herc’s indestructible isn’t as useful as Cap MM, his immortality isn’t useful as Corvus, his damage isn’t as high as CGR (as much as you say it’s undetermined, until I see proof Herc has as high damage as CGR I’ll stick with what the facts say). So in a situation I need high damage, I’ll use CGR. In a situation I need indestructible I’ll use CMM, and in a situation I need immortality I’ll likely use Corvus.
Maybe there’s a niche scenario you need all 3, in which case yeah, Herc seems like a good shout. But apart from that, most paths in quest and war need a specific identity, and as a result, you want to bring the best for that one thing, not a good option for that thing but can do a few others too.
Hercules seems awesome, yes. He is definitely a top cosmic and a fantastic addition to the game with lots of damage and utility. But that doesn’t make him the best cosmic by default, and it is far too early to say whether he’ll be the top option, or just a jack of all trades master of none.
Not by default. I’ve agreed to all of this. But he has what makes these champs so valuable, and applies it in his own unique playstyle. He doesn’t use the abilities as efficiently as these other champs, but he adds on to it with stun immunity, true sense, and keeping the theme of hard crits and some nice burst damage to go with it. All of these champs have damage, so between hercules and CGR, you decide more damage from CGR (in theory) or more utility from hercules, similar to mole man and hit monkey. Corvus and hercules have immortality that work differently, but main function is to ignore all DOT effects. Corvus can have this ability the whole fight, and probably ends the fight within a few mediums, whereas hercules gains the immortality long enough to most likely kill the opponent, so pretty close between the 2. CMM definitely has the better indestructible, but it works the same as hercules’ immortality, except he can extend it by aggressive playstyle.
I think people are overhyping his stun immunity, honestly, how often do you find yourself being stunned? The two scenario's I've heard as evidence are encroaching stun and Apoc on 4 charges. And I'll add in my own thought of mesmerise
Encroaching stun is 1 node in the entire war map, and maybe one path in act 6 and 7 along with a variant 2 boss. Mesmerise is the same. Apoc will very rarely be on 4 charges, as you'd want to use a Robot first. How useful is that compared to the other utility brought to the table by other Cosmic Champions?
He has a lesser version of what makes those champions valuable, and most of the time I would rather bring a different champion. I'd use him for miss scenarios and stun scenarios, but they just aren't common enough for me to think yeah, he's the best cosmic champion.
Herc looks awesome, and very, very good. But for me, he just doesn't clinch it yet. Maybe in time and with content he will wow me, but right now I'm just not seeing anything from Herc that makes me think - "Yeah, I'd use him here instead of Corvus" (Except for fun of course, Herc looks so much fun to play and I find Corvus boring)
You can undermine any champion by putting them against worst case scenarios.
Agreed, but that doesn’t prove Hercules is the best cosmic
Why doesn’t it? CGR has higher damage? Corvus has a better immortality? CMM can has the better indestructible? Hercules has all of the above, and is practical to use. CGR vs Hercules when it comes to damage isn’t determined, corvus has the better immortality but that doesn’t make hercules any less valuable in comparison to the other champs, CMM has the better indestructible but hercules only really has it to tank sp3s by using his sp3, and his immortality acts like his indestructible, so where you would have died, you would have your last stand. Hyperion isn’t a 6* unfortunately but has some crazy power gain and furies that can keep up with these champs, is poison immune, has incinerates, his cosmic potential, armor break, nice stun on sp2, and regen. Hercules has these insane abilities, the immortality, indestructible, damage. He may not use it as well as the others do individually, but he has it in one kit, that works together well, in his own unique way.
I mean you pretty much ignored all of CGR'S and Hype's utility but ok.
Post is mainly to show hercules can do what most of these champs can do with ease. CGR has his power lock and heal block but would you say that makes him better than hercules? Immortality is a powerful ability, which is why corvus is so highly valued, along with his crits, which hercules can do within 1 special 1. CGR is also highly valued for his crits. Would you say this is true?
Corvus has a more valuable immortality imo
It lasts however long you can keep your charges, which could be the whole fight in the hands of a skilled player. Additionally, Hercules’ can expire after time. Plus it can be nullified.
While this is true, hercules with the immortality also gains unblockable, allowing him to be aggressive extending the time of his immortality. In shorter fights it usually takes 1 sp1, then 1 sp2 to get big damage off of the opponent before he dies, similar to CGR and Corvus when they fire their big sp2s.
See, your argument is heavily flawed. All your doing is going on and on about herc, and just saying “oh they can do it too”. Lame.
And your argument is to undermine the value of hercules? Lame
Matter a fact im being a bit hypocritical, i didnt mention the others utility much, only hercules. Ignore this.
I think why this thread hasn’t been received as well is due to a couple reasons. First Herc is new, and I’m not sure about others but I tend not to trust the first month hype of a new champion and wait for them to settle into the contest. We get the hype from the content creators and then months later some champs are just forgotten. I’m not sure this will happen to Herc but you get my point. It’s very hard to make a case for a champ being the best in their class when they’ve been released for weeks.
I mean look at the hype we had for champs like Stryfe (mutant aegon) and hit monkey (skill Corvus) not to say those champs are bad, but the amount they were hyped vs how much they’re hyped now is very different.
Secondly, you very clearly weren’t objective in the OP, I think you’ve realised that now so I won’t pile on about it. But glossing over the opposing sides abilities is always gonna get people suspicious about how valid your opinion is.
Herc could potentially end up being awesome, and maybe there’s a version of the future where he’s considered better than Corvus, CGR and Hyp, but right now I think it’s too early to tell. He’s cool, but we need more time to see what he can do.
Very accurate. Im going based off gameplay i have seen from him, the content has cleared, his practically, and viability to content like AQ, act 6/7, war offense/defense. In due time when more people have him, this will show. Right now people are probably leaning to the OGS.
I've seen a few vids where herc was used on offense in war. It worked out for them on those occasions. I've talked with numerous folks where it didn't work out for them.
I wouldn't say his immortality is a strength. Not in war. Not when deaths matter so much. It is not a given and I'd hate to be relying on it then have to explain to my ally mates that it didn't trigger and I died.... sorry we lost. Just cause you've seen it work in a vid don't mean it's reliable.
No context whatsoever. Why wouldn’t it trigger? Did you only use herc? What nodes/matchups? In war he’s stun immune, and the AI is already aggressive. His immortality is a safety net that also allows him to go unblockable as well. and his true sense on sp1 counters autoblock and miss. That’s great for war.
Assassin prevents it from triggering making it unreliable and unsafe
20% chance. He has more going on for him than just immortality, he still has big damage on sp2, base attacks for that matter, true sense on sp1, immune to stun, and his indestructible on sp3 if needed to tank the opponents sp3. If all fails and you get a combo to the face, it’s a 1 in 5 chance your immortality doesn’t trigger. Guess it’s up to the player if they want to take that risk.
Eh, in war that’s too fine a margin to leave things up to a 20% chance. If you had an 80% chance to power drain an opponent with your l1 would you push them to an sp3?
I would bait their sp2 since there is no risk. Would the opponent be confident my immortality doesn’t trigger with a 20% chance.
why does the opponent need to be confident that your immortality won't trigger? The opponent places with assassin's on and that]'s it. It's upto you if you wanna go into a fight and hope that your immortality triggers. You wont be leaving anything to chance if you're playing serious war.
Thats fine. Wouldn’t have to, would just play hercules as i do any other champ. If i mess up and get hit, perhaps it isn’t 100% reliable, but the odds would be in my favor. But for the most part he has a great kit anyways for war offense other than his immortality.
You can undermine any champion by putting them against worst case scenarios.
Agreed, but that doesn’t prove Hercules is the best cosmic
Why doesn’t it? CGR has higher damage? Corvus has a better immortality? CMM can has the better indestructible? Hercules has all of the above, and is practical to use. CGR vs Hercules when it comes to damage isn’t determined, corvus has the better immortality but that doesn’t make hercules any less valuable in comparison to the other champs, CMM has the better indestructible but hercules only really has it to tank sp3s by using his sp3, and his immortality acts like his indestructible, so where you would have died, you would have your last stand. Hyperion isn’t a 6* unfortunately but has some crazy power gain and furies that can keep up with these champs, is poison immune, has incinerates, his cosmic potential, armor break, nice stun on sp2, and regen. Hercules has these insane abilities, the immortality, indestructible, damage. He may not use it as well as the others do individually, but he has it in one kit, that works together well, in his own unique way.
I mean you pretty much ignored all of CGR'S and Hype's utility but ok.
Post is mainly to show hercules can do what most of these champs can do with ease. CGR has his power lock and heal block but would you say that makes him better than hercules? Immortality is a powerful ability, which is why corvus is so highly valued, along with his crits, which hercules can do within 1 special 1. CGR is also highly valued for his crits. Would you say this is true?
Corvus has a more valuable immortality imo
It lasts however long you can keep your charges, which could be the whole fight in the hands of a skilled player. Additionally, Hercules’ can expire after time. Plus it can be nullified.
While this is true, hercules with the immortality also gains unblockable, allowing him to be aggressive extending the time of his immortality. In shorter fights it usually takes 1 sp1, then 1 sp2 to get big damage off of the opponent before he dies, similar to CGR and Corvus when they fire their big sp2s.
See, your argument is heavily flawed. All your doing is going on and on about herc, and just saying “oh they can do it too”. Lame.
And your argument is to undermine the value of hercules? Lame
Matter a fact im being a bit hypocritical, i didnt mention the others utility much, only hercules. Ignore this.
I think why this thread hasn’t been received as well is due to a couple reasons. First Herc is new, and I’m not sure about others but I tend not to trust the first month hype of a new champion and wait for them to settle into the contest. We get the hype from the content creators and then months later some champs are just forgotten. I’m not sure this will happen to Herc but you get my point. It’s very hard to make a case for a champ being the best in their class when they’ve been released for weeks.
I mean look at the hype we had for champs like Stryfe (mutant aegon) and hit monkey (skill Corvus) not to say those champs are bad, but the amount they were hyped vs how much they’re hyped now is very different.
Secondly, you very clearly weren’t objective in the OP, I think you’ve realised that now so I won’t pile on about it. But glossing over the opposing sides abilities is always gonna get people suspicious about how valid your opinion is.
Herc could potentially end up being awesome, and maybe there’s a version of the future where he’s considered better than Corvus, CGR and Hyp, but right now I think it’s too early to tell. He’s cool, but we need more time to see what he can do.
Very accurate. Im going based off gameplay i have seen from him, the content has cleared, his practically, and viability to content like AQ, act 6/7, war offense/defense. In due time when more people have him, this will show. Right now people are probably leaning to the OGS.
I've seen a few vids where herc was used on offense in war. It worked out for them on those occasions. I've talked with numerous folks where it didn't work out for them.
I wouldn't say his immortality is a strength. Not in war. Not when deaths matter so much. It is not a given and I'd hate to be relying on it then have to explain to my ally mates that it didn't trigger and I died.... sorry we lost. Just cause you've seen it work in a vid don't mean it's reliable.
No context whatsoever. Why wouldn’t it trigger? Did you only use herc? What nodes/matchups? In war he’s stun immune, and the AI is already aggressive. His immortality is a safety net that also allows him to go unblockable as well. and his true sense on sp1 counters autoblock and miss. That’s great for war.
Assassin prevents it from triggering making it unreliable and unsafe
20% chance. He has more going on for him than just immortality, he still has big damage on sp2, base attacks for that matter, true sense on sp1, immune to stun, and his indestructible on sp3 if needed to tank the opponents sp3. If all fails and you get a combo to the face, it’s a 1 in 5 chance your immortality doesn’t trigger. Guess it’s up to the player if they want to take that risk.
Eh, in war that’s too fine a margin to leave things up to a 20% chance. If you had an 80% chance to power drain an opponent with your l1 would you push them to an sp3?
I would bait their sp2 since there is no risk. Would the opponent be confident my immortality doesn’t trigger with a 20% chance.
You just proved my point by accident my guy. You admitted it's too much up to risk to push them to an sp3, so you'd rather bait out the special. Ergo, it's too much of a risk to bank on 20% chance not to die, so Herc's immortality is not reliable enough.
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
You can undermine any champion by putting them against worst case scenarios.
Agreed, but that doesn’t prove Hercules is the best cosmic
Why doesn’t it? CGR has higher damage? Corvus has a better immortality? CMM can has the better indestructible? Hercules has all of the above, and is practical to use. CGR vs Hercules when it comes to damage isn’t determined, corvus has the better immortality but that doesn’t make hercules any less valuable in comparison to the other champs, CMM has the better indestructible but hercules only really has it to tank sp3s by using his sp3, and his immortality acts like his indestructible, so where you would have died, you would have your last stand. Hyperion isn’t a 6* unfortunately but has some crazy power gain and furies that can keep up with these champs, is poison immune, has incinerates, his cosmic potential, armor break, nice stun on sp2, and regen. Hercules has these insane abilities, the immortality, indestructible, damage. He may not use it as well as the others do individually, but he has it in one kit, that works together well, in his own unique way.
You’re not addressing what I said. You said you can undermine any champ with their worst case scenario and I said that doesn’t prove Herc being the best.
In regards to what you said, I’ll refer you to what I said before - this could be new champ hype and we don’t know yet. Wait for Herc to settle in and we will know at a later time. He seems promising, but chucking parts of other champs together isn’t proof a champion is the best.
Herc’s indestructible isn’t as useful as Cap MM, his immortality isn’t useful as Corvus, his damage isn’t as high as CGR (as much as you say it’s undetermined, until I see proof Herc has as high damage as CGR I’ll stick with what the facts say). So in a situation I need high damage, I’ll use CGR. In a situation I need indestructible I’ll use CMM, and in a situation I need immortality I’ll likely use Corvus.
Maybe there’s a niche scenario you need all 3, in which case yeah, Herc seems like a good shout. But apart from that, most paths in quest and war need a specific identity, and as a result, you want to bring the best for that one thing, not a good option for that thing but can do a few others too.
Hercules seems awesome, yes. He is definitely a top cosmic and a fantastic addition to the game with lots of damage and utility. But that doesn’t make him the best cosmic by default, and it is far too early to say whether he’ll be the top option, or just a jack of all trades master of none.
Not by default. I’ve agreed to all of this. But he has what makes these champs so valuable, and applies it in his own unique playstyle. He doesn’t use the abilities as efficiently as these other champs, but he adds on to it with stun immunity, true sense, and keeping the theme of hard crits and some nice burst damage to go with it. All of these champs have damage, so between hercules and CGR, you decide more damage from CGR (in theory) or more utility from hercules, similar to mole man and hit monkey. Corvus and hercules have immortality that work differently, but main function is to ignore all DOT effects. Corvus can have this ability the whole fight, and probably ends the fight within a few mediums, whereas hercules gains the immortality long enough to most likely kill the opponent, so pretty close between the 2. CMM definitely has the better indestructible, but it works the same as hercules’ immortality, except he can extend it by aggressive playstyle.
I think people are overhyping his stun immunity, honestly, how often do you find yourself being stunned? The two scenario's I've heard as evidence are encroaching stun and Apoc on 4 charges. And I'll add in my own thought of mesmerise
Encroaching stun is 1 node in the entire war map, and maybe one path in act 6 and 7 along with a variant 2 boss. Mesmerise is the same. Apoc will very rarely be on 4 charges, as you'd want to use a Robot first. How useful is that compared to the other utility brought to the table by other Cosmic Champions?
He has a lesser version of what makes those champions valuable, and most of the time I would rather bring a different champion. I'd use him for miss scenarios and stun scenarios, but they just aren't common enough for me to think yeah, he's the best cosmic champion.
Herc looks awesome, and very, very good. But for me, he just doesn't clinch it yet. Maybe in time and with content he will wow me, but right now I'm just not seeing anything from Herc that makes me think - "Yeah, I'd use him here instead of Corvus" (Except for fun of course, Herc looks so much fun to play and I find Corvus boring)
That’s just a nice ability to have really. The small details matter,
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
so then one of his overhyped abilities..... unreliable. true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario. Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
You can undermine any champion by putting them against worst case scenarios.
Agreed, but that doesn’t prove Hercules is the best cosmic
Why doesn’t it? CGR has higher damage? Corvus has a better immortality? CMM can has the better indestructible? Hercules has all of the above, and is practical to use. CGR vs Hercules when it comes to damage isn’t determined, corvus has the better immortality but that doesn’t make hercules any less valuable in comparison to the other champs, CMM has the better indestructible but hercules only really has it to tank sp3s by using his sp3, and his immortality acts like his indestructible, so where you would have died, you would have your last stand. Hyperion isn’t a 6* unfortunately but has some crazy power gain and furies that can keep up with these champs, is poison immune, has incinerates, his cosmic potential, armor break, nice stun on sp2, and regen. Hercules has these insane abilities, the immortality, indestructible, damage. He may not use it as well as the others do individually, but he has it in one kit, that works together well, in his own unique way.
You’re not addressing what I said. You said you can undermine any champ with their worst case scenario and I said that doesn’t prove Herc being the best.
In regards to what you said, I’ll refer you to what I said before - this could be new champ hype and we don’t know yet. Wait for Herc to settle in and we will know at a later time. He seems promising, but chucking parts of other champs together isn’t proof a champion is the best.
Herc’s indestructible isn’t as useful as Cap MM, his immortality isn’t useful as Corvus, his damage isn’t as high as CGR (as much as you say it’s undetermined, until I see proof Herc has as high damage as CGR I’ll stick with what the facts say). So in a situation I need high damage, I’ll use CGR. In a situation I need indestructible I’ll use CMM, and in a situation I need immortality I’ll likely use Corvus.
Maybe there’s a niche scenario you need all 3, in which case yeah, Herc seems like a good shout. But apart from that, most paths in quest and war need a specific identity, and as a result, you want to bring the best for that one thing, not a good option for that thing but can do a few others too.
Hercules seems awesome, yes. He is definitely a top cosmic and a fantastic addition to the game with lots of damage and utility. But that doesn’t make him the best cosmic by default, and it is far too early to say whether he’ll be the top option, or just a jack of all trades master of none.
Not by default. I’ve agreed to all of this. But he has what makes these champs so valuable, and applies it in his own unique playstyle. He doesn’t use the abilities as efficiently as these other champs, but he adds on to it with stun immunity, true sense, and keeping the theme of hard crits and some nice burst damage to go with it. All of these champs have damage, so between hercules and CGR, you decide more damage from CGR (in theory) or more utility from hercules, similar to mole man and hit monkey. Corvus and hercules have immortality that work differently, but main function is to ignore all DOT effects. Corvus can have this ability the whole fight, and probably ends the fight within a few mediums, whereas hercules gains the immortality long enough to most likely kill the opponent, so pretty close between the 2. CMM definitely has the better indestructible, but it works the same as hercules’ immortality, except he can extend it by aggressive playstyle.
I think people are overhyping his stun immunity, honestly, how often do you find yourself being stunned? The two scenario's I've heard as evidence are encroaching stun and Apoc on 4 charges. And I'll add in my own thought of mesmerise
Encroaching stun is 1 node in the entire war map, and maybe one path in act 6 and 7 along with a variant 2 boss. Mesmerise is the same. Apoc will very rarely be on 4 charges, as you'd want to use a Robot first. How useful is that compared to the other utility brought to the table by other Cosmic Champions?
He has a lesser version of what makes those champions valuable, and most of the time I would rather bring a different champion. I'd use him for miss scenarios and stun scenarios, but they just aren't common enough for me to think yeah, he's the best cosmic champion.
Herc looks awesome, and very, very good. But for me, he just doesn't clinch it yet. Maybe in time and with content he will wow me, but right now I'm just not seeing anything from Herc that makes me think - "Yeah, I'd use him here instead of Corvus" (Except for fun of course, Herc looks so much fun to play and I find Corvus boring)
That’s subjective on who you have more fun with or prefer. List all of corvus’ strengths as I’ve listed all of hercules’. Corvus has the better immortality, but what else does he excel at better than hercules?
Just curious why CMM was ignored here. She is poison immune, has a good indestructible mechanic which is fairly long. Can tank sp3 when indestructible and also suicide friendly mostly because most fights end with 1 sp2. Also, curious why you mention Hyperion is not suicide friendly when he can simply spam heavy and sp3 the whole fight without taking recoil damage.
Because she isn't in the running for number 1. Hype is poison immune, herc has a good indestructible mechanic for sp3s, Hercu is suicides friendly and ends most fights with an sp2. She's a good champion, just not number 1 no matter your opinion.
How is Hercs indestructible better than CMM? It’s shorter, less applicable and less easy to obtain
You can undermine any champion by putting them against worst case scenarios.
Agreed, but that doesn’t prove Hercules is the best cosmic
Why doesn’t it? CGR has higher damage? Corvus has a better immortality? CMM can has the better indestructible? Hercules has all of the above, and is practical to use. CGR vs Hercules when it comes to damage isn’t determined, corvus has the better immortality but that doesn’t make hercules any less valuable in comparison to the other champs, CMM has the better indestructible but hercules only really has it to tank sp3s by using his sp3, and his immortality acts like his indestructible, so where you would have died, you would have your last stand. Hyperion isn’t a 6* unfortunately but has some crazy power gain and furies that can keep up with these champs, is poison immune, has incinerates, his cosmic potential, armor break, nice stun on sp2, and regen. Hercules has these insane abilities, the immortality, indestructible, damage. He may not use it as well as the others do individually, but he has it in one kit, that works together well, in his own unique way.
You’re not addressing what I said. You said you can undermine any champ with their worst case scenario and I said that doesn’t prove Herc being the best.
In regards to what you said, I’ll refer you to what I said before - this could be new champ hype and we don’t know yet. Wait for Herc to settle in and we will know at a later time. He seems promising, but chucking parts of other champs together isn’t proof a champion is the best.
Herc’s indestructible isn’t as useful as Cap MM, his immortality isn’t useful as Corvus, his damage isn’t as high as CGR (as much as you say it’s undetermined, until I see proof Herc has as high damage as CGR I’ll stick with what the facts say). So in a situation I need high damage, I’ll use CGR. In a situation I need indestructible I’ll use CMM, and in a situation I need immortality I’ll likely use Corvus.
Maybe there’s a niche scenario you need all 3, in which case yeah, Herc seems like a good shout. But apart from that, most paths in quest and war need a specific identity, and as a result, you want to bring the best for that one thing, not a good option for that thing but can do a few others too.
Hercules seems awesome, yes. He is definitely a top cosmic and a fantastic addition to the game with lots of damage and utility. But that doesn’t make him the best cosmic by default, and it is far too early to say whether he’ll be the top option, or just a jack of all trades master of none.
Not by default. I’ve agreed to all of this. But he has what makes these champs so valuable, and applies it in his own unique playstyle. He doesn’t use the abilities as efficiently as these other champs, but he adds on to it with stun immunity, true sense, and keeping the theme of hard crits and some nice burst damage to go with it. All of these champs have damage, so between hercules and CGR, you decide more damage from CGR (in theory) or more utility from hercules, similar to mole man and hit monkey. Corvus and hercules have immortality that work differently, but main function is to ignore all DOT effects. Corvus can have this ability the whole fight, and probably ends the fight within a few mediums, whereas hercules gains the immortality long enough to most likely kill the opponent, so pretty close between the 2. CMM definitely has the better indestructible, but it works the same as hercules’ immortality, except he can extend it by aggressive playstyle.
I think people are overhyping his stun immunity, honestly, how often do you find yourself being stunned? The two scenario's I've heard as evidence are encroaching stun and Apoc on 4 charges. And I'll add in my own thought of mesmerise
Encroaching stun is 1 node in the entire war map, and maybe one path in act 6 and 7 along with a variant 2 boss. Mesmerise is the same. Apoc will very rarely be on 4 charges, as you'd want to use a Robot first. How useful is that compared to the other utility brought to the table by other Cosmic Champions?
He has a lesser version of what makes those champions valuable, and most of the time I would rather bring a different champion. I'd use him for miss scenarios and stun scenarios, but they just aren't common enough for me to think yeah, he's the best cosmic champion.
Herc looks awesome, and very, very good. But for me, he just doesn't clinch it yet. Maybe in time and with content he will wow me, but right now I'm just not seeing anything from Herc that makes me think - "Yeah, I'd use him here instead of Corvus" (Except for fun of course, Herc looks so much fun to play and I find Corvus boring)
That’s subjective on who you have more fun with or prefer. List all of corvus’ strengths as I’ve listed all of hercules’. Corvus has the better immortality, but what else does he excel at better than hercules?
What are you on about? Literally the only subjective part of that was my last sentence about who I enjoy more. I enjoy Mr Negative more than Torch, doesn't make him better.
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
so then one of his overhyped abilities..... unreliable. true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario. Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
Unreliable in war, and not needed. And i actually find it hilarious you are comparing Hercules to champs like quake, nick fury, and magneto. Of course he’s not the best for each node, but being viable for so much is great. Also anyone can do encroaching stun really, but you just dont have to worry about the timer with hercules is my point. My claim isn’t that hercules is the best war attacker in the game, but quite simply, he’s good for war offense.
You can undermine any champion by putting them against worst case scenarios.
Agreed, but that doesn’t prove Hercules is the best cosmic
Why doesn’t it? CGR has higher damage? Corvus has a better immortality? CMM can has the better indestructible? Hercules has all of the above, and is practical to use. CGR vs Hercules when it comes to damage isn’t determined, corvus has the better immortality but that doesn’t make hercules any less valuable in comparison to the other champs, CMM has the better indestructible but hercules only really has it to tank sp3s by using his sp3, and his immortality acts like his indestructible, so where you would have died, you would have your last stand. Hyperion isn’t a 6* unfortunately but has some crazy power gain and furies that can keep up with these champs, is poison immune, has incinerates, his cosmic potential, armor break, nice stun on sp2, and regen. Hercules has these insane abilities, the immortality, indestructible, damage. He may not use it as well as the others do individually, but he has it in one kit, that works together well, in his own unique way.
You’re not addressing what I said. You said you can undermine any champ with their worst case scenario and I said that doesn’t prove Herc being the best.
In regards to what you said, I’ll refer you to what I said before - this could be new champ hype and we don’t know yet. Wait for Herc to settle in and we will know at a later time. He seems promising, but chucking parts of other champs together isn’t proof a champion is the best.
Herc’s indestructible isn’t as useful as Cap MM, his immortality isn’t useful as Corvus, his damage isn’t as high as CGR (as much as you say it’s undetermined, until I see proof Herc has as high damage as CGR I’ll stick with what the facts say). So in a situation I need high damage, I’ll use CGR. In a situation I need indestructible I’ll use CMM, and in a situation I need immortality I’ll likely use Corvus.
Maybe there’s a niche scenario you need all 3, in which case yeah, Herc seems like a good shout. But apart from that, most paths in quest and war need a specific identity, and as a result, you want to bring the best for that one thing, not a good option for that thing but can do a few others too.
Hercules seems awesome, yes. He is definitely a top cosmic and a fantastic addition to the game with lots of damage and utility. But that doesn’t make him the best cosmic by default, and it is far too early to say whether he’ll be the top option, or just a jack of all trades master of none.
Not by default. I’ve agreed to all of this. But he has what makes these champs so valuable, and applies it in his own unique playstyle. He doesn’t use the abilities as efficiently as these other champs, but he adds on to it with stun immunity, true sense, and keeping the theme of hard crits and some nice burst damage to go with it. All of these champs have damage, so between hercules and CGR, you decide more damage from CGR (in theory) or more utility from hercules, similar to mole man and hit monkey. Corvus and hercules have immortality that work differently, but main function is to ignore all DOT effects. Corvus can have this ability the whole fight, and probably ends the fight within a few mediums, whereas hercules gains the immortality long enough to most likely kill the opponent, so pretty close between the 2. CMM definitely has the better indestructible, but it works the same as hercules’ immortality, except he can extend it by aggressive playstyle.
I think people are overhyping his stun immunity, honestly, how often do you find yourself being stunned? The two scenario's I've heard as evidence are encroaching stun and Apoc on 4 charges. And I'll add in my own thought of mesmerise
Encroaching stun is 1 node in the entire war map, and maybe one path in act 6 and 7 along with a variant 2 boss. Mesmerise is the same. Apoc will very rarely be on 4 charges, as you'd want to use a Robot first. How useful is that compared to the other utility brought to the table by other Cosmic Champions?
He has a lesser version of what makes those champions valuable, and most of the time I would rather bring a different champion. I'd use him for miss scenarios and stun scenarios, but they just aren't common enough for me to think yeah, he's the best cosmic champion.
Herc looks awesome, and very, very good. But for me, he just doesn't clinch it yet. Maybe in time and with content he will wow me, but right now I'm just not seeing anything from Herc that makes me think - "Yeah, I'd use him here instead of Corvus" (Except for fun of course, Herc looks so much fun to play and I find Corvus boring)
That’s subjective on who you have more fun with or prefer. List all of corvus’ strengths as I’ve listed all of hercules’. Corvus has the better immortality, but what else does he excel at better than hercules?
What are you on about? Literally the only subjective part of that was my last sentence about who I enjoy more. I enjoy Mr Negative more than Torch, doesn't make him better.
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
so then one of his overhyped abilities..... unreliable. true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario. Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
My claim isn’t that hercules is the best war attacker in the game, but quite simply, he’s good for war offense.
But you’re claiming he’s the best cosmic, and war attack was a point that was brought up for what he’s so good for, so what is he the best for if not war offence?
We’ve established he’s not the best immortality, indestructible, or damage too. So what is he best at?
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
so then one of his overhyped abilities..... unreliable. true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario. Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
My claim isn’t that hercules is the best war attacker in the game, but quite simply, he’s good for war offense.
But you’re claiming he’s the best cosmic, and war attack was a point that was brought up for what he’s so good for, so what is he the best for if not war offence?
As you’ve said, he’s a jack of all trades, but master of none. He can do war offense/defense, AQ, take multiple act 6 bosses, great for questing, similar to corvus. Corvus has the better immortality, but what else does he do better than hercules?
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
so then one of his overhyped abilities..... unreliable. true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario. Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
My claim isn’t that hercules is the best war attacker in the game, but quite simply, he’s good for war offense.
But you’re claiming he’s the best cosmic, and war attack was a point that was brought up for what he’s so good for, so what is he the best for if not war offence?
As you’ve said, he’s a jack of all trades, but master of none. He can do war offense/defense, AQ, take multiple act 6 bosses, great for questing, similar to corvus. Corvus has the better immortality, but what else does he do better than hercules?
Master of none… except for the cosmic class?
I could make this argument for IMIW, he does so much, taking little parts from so many different champions. He has tons of uses, so much utility, big numbers. But there’s a reason he’s not the top tech, or even remotely in the picture. Jack of all trades can only get you so far in the game, because at a certain point you stop needing one champion who can do 5 things decently, and you start needing 5 champions who can do 1 thing each very well.
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
so then one of his overhyped abilities..... unreliable. true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario. Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
My claim isn’t that hercules is the best war attacker in the game, but quite simply, he’s good for war offense.
But you’re claiming he’s the best cosmic, and war attack was a point that was brought up for what he’s so good for, so what is he the best for if not war offence?
As you’ve said, he’s a jack of all trades, but master of none. He can do war offense/defense, AQ, take multiple act 6 bosses, great for questing, similar to corvus. Corvus has the better immortality, but what else does he do better than hercules?
on demand damage with next to no worries. Easily obtainable immunity which cannot be affected by AAR. Great synergy with cosmic boosts. 100% working abilities at all times.
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
so then one of his overhyped abilities..... unreliable. true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario. Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
My claim isn’t that hercules is the best war attacker in the game, but quite simply, he’s good for war offense.
But you’re claiming he’s the best cosmic, and war attack was a point that was brought up for what he’s so good for, so what is he the best for if not war offence?
As you’ve said, he’s a jack of all trades, but master of none. He can do war offense/defense, AQ, take multiple act 6 bosses, great for questing, similar to corvus. Corvus has the better immortality, but what else does he do better than hercules?
Master of none… except for the cosmic class?
I could make this argument for IMIW, he does so much, taking little parts from so many different champions. He has tons of uses, so much utility, big numbers. But there’s a reason he’s not the top tech, or even remotely in the picture. Jack of all trades can only get you so far in the game, because at a certain point you stop needing one champion who can do 5 things decently, and you start needing 5 champions who can do 1 thing each very well.
You and i both know ghost and warlock make that impossible, and he’s more difficult to play. But corvus and hercules are very similar, almost match for match. Both crit hard and have immortality. Just because hercules isn’t the best at everything he does, doesn’t automatically put corvus at the #1 spot because hercules can do so much. So can corvus. Both have insanely hard hitting sp2s, and have ways of dealing with sp3s. Corvus drains the opponents power by like 30% or something when the opponent is at 3 bars of power with his sp2, and hercules uses his sp3 as protection against the opponents sp3. Both are very similar, but hercules has more abilities overall, in which although he isn’t the best autoblock miss counter, still really good for it. Not many nodes either in act 6 where his immortality is affected either.
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
so then one of his overhyped abilities..... unreliable. true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario. Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
My claim isn’t that hercules is the best war attacker in the game, but quite simply, he’s good for war offense.
But you’re claiming he’s the best cosmic, and war attack was a point that was brought up for what he’s so good for, so what is he the best for if not war offence?
As you’ve said, he’s a jack of all trades, but master of none. He can do war offense/defense, AQ, take multiple act 6 bosses, great for questing, similar to corvus. Corvus has the better immortality, but what else does he do better than hercules?
Master of none… except for the cosmic class?
I could make this argument for IMIW, he does so much, taking little parts from so many different champions. He has tons of uses, so much utility, big numbers. But there’s a reason he’s not the top tech, or even remotely in the picture. Jack of all trades can only get you so far in the game, because at a certain point you stop needing one champion who can do 5 things decently, and you start needing 5 champions who can do 1 thing each very well.
You and i both know ghost and warlock make that impossible, and he’s more difficult to play.
You’re dodging the point, a jack of all trades isn’t as useful in the long run. Because they are master of none
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
so then one of his overhyped abilities..... unreliable. true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario. Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
My claim isn’t that hercules is the best war attacker in the game, but quite simply, he’s good for war offense.
But you’re claiming he’s the best cosmic, and war attack was a point that was brought up for what he’s so good for, so what is he the best for if not war offence?
As you’ve said, he’s a jack of all trades, but master of none. He can do war offense/defense, AQ, take multiple act 6 bosses, great for questing, similar to corvus. Corvus has the better immortality, but what else does he do better than hercules?
on demand damage with next to no worries. Easily obtainable immunity which cannot be affected by AAR. Great synergy with cosmic boosts. 100% working abilities at all times.
Cosmic boosts? Really? Hercules is better with a 30% champion boost, health boost, and attack boost. AAR is mainly an issue in war where you chance dying to be immortal, but even then he’s good without it.
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
so then one of his overhyped abilities..... unreliable. true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario. Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
My claim isn’t that hercules is the best war attacker in the game, but quite simply, he’s good for war offense.
But you’re claiming he’s the best cosmic, and war attack was a point that was brought up for what he’s so good for, so what is he the best for if not war offence?
As you’ve said, he’s a jack of all trades, but master of none. He can do war offense/defense, AQ, take multiple act 6 bosses, great for questing, similar to corvus. Corvus has the better immortality, but what else does he do better than hercules?
Master of none… except for the cosmic class?
I could make this argument for IMIW, he does so much, taking little parts from so many different champions. He has tons of uses, so much utility, big numbers. But there’s a reason he’s not the top tech, or even remotely in the picture. Jack of all trades can only get you so far in the game, because at a certain point you stop needing one champion who can do 5 things decently, and you start needing 5 champions who can do 1 thing each very well.
You and i both know ghost and warlock make that impossible, and he’s more difficult to play.
You’re dodging the point, a jack of all trades isn’t as useful in the long run. Because they are master of none
Ghost has high critical damage, but CGR has higher crits. Ghost has good power gain, but hyperions power gain is better. Ghost counters evade, but mole man counters it better. Ghost can have unblockable specials with wasp synergy, but nick fury can be unblockable at all times. Ghost can bypass DOT debuffs, but hercules and corvus can counter debuffs and passives. And her phase can be countered by AAR. She’s a jack of all trades, master of none, but considered the best tech champ.
@ChaosMax1012 all you have seen is from vids. Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either. He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
Dont die and dont rely on immortality? It’s a great chance it triggers but you’re ignoring everything else he has. True sense, always good for war offense for those annoying autoblock/miss champs. High damage output, even on base, if you cant trigger buffs or they get nullified. Stun immunity if you ever get parried, its just nice to have. Immortality is really just a last resort in war for hercules.
so then one of his overhyped abilities..... unreliable. true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario. Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
My claim isn’t that hercules is the best war attacker in the game, but quite simply, he’s good for war offense.
But you’re claiming he’s the best cosmic, and war attack was a point that was brought up for what he’s so good for, so what is he the best for if not war offence?
As you’ve said, he’s a jack of all trades, but master of none. He can do war offense/defense, AQ, take multiple act 6 bosses, great for questing, similar to corvus. Corvus has the better immortality, but what else does he do better than hercules?
Master of none… except for the cosmic class?
I could make this argument for IMIW, he does so much, taking little parts from so many different champions. He has tons of uses, so much utility, big numbers. But there’s a reason he’s not the top tech, or even remotely in the picture. Jack of all trades can only get you so far in the game, because at a certain point you stop needing one champion who can do 5 things decently, and you start needing 5 champions who can do 1 thing each very well.
You and i both know ghost and warlock make that impossible, and he’s more difficult to play.
You’re dodging the point, a jack of all trades isn’t as useful in the long run. Because they are master of none
Ghost has high critical damage, but CGR has higher crits. Ghost has good power gain, but hyperions power gain is better. Ghost counters evade, but mole man counters it better. Ghost can have unblockable specials with wasp synergy, but nick fury can be unblockable at all times. Ghost can bypass DOT debuffs, but hercules and corvus can counter debuffs and passives. And her phase can be countered by AAR. She’s a jack of all trades, master of none, but considered the best tech champ.
I’m afraid your argument is falling apart, Ghost? Jack of all trades, master of none? I’d never imagined someone could say that without a hint of irony.
I don’t even know where to begin telling you you’re wrong.
Her phases allowing for 0 block damage, means you can play her on 1% health for entire matches. Her massive damage, evade counter, crazy power gain, immunity to every single DOT in the game, phasing damage with hood synergy, on demand intercepts.
So what if phase is affected by AAR, because it’s an ability that doesn’t trigger only at 0% health, it doesn’t matter in war. The whole point of that is that assassin turns off Hercules’ immortality, don’t use that as a reason why ghost’s phase makes her a jack of all trades
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Lets push for 2K disagrees!
Encroaching stun is 1 node in the entire war map, and maybe one path in act 6 and 7 along with a variant 2 boss. Mesmerise is the same. Apoc will very rarely be on 4 charges, as you'd want to use a Robot first. How useful is that compared to the other utility brought to the table by other Cosmic Champions?
He has a lesser version of what makes those champions valuable, and most of the time I would rather bring a different champion. I'd use him for miss scenarios and stun scenarios, but they just aren't common enough for me to think yeah, he's the best cosmic champion.
Herc looks awesome, and very, very good. But for me, he just doesn't clinch it yet. Maybe in time and with content he will wow me, but right now I'm just not seeing anything from Herc that makes me think - "Yeah, I'd use him here instead of Corvus" (Except for fun of course, Herc looks so much fun to play and I find Corvus boring)
Herc isnt a great war attacker for the sole reason his immortality cab be shut down by assassin. I dont know how high you play in war, but it is reliable or bust. There is a reason you dont see ihulk on war attack either.
He has a nice kit and great prestige, but he is definitely not gonna be the go to pick. We can see when the dust settles how far he will go.
true sense? great. How many of those autoblock champs are metal? Mags is better. Nick can bypass miss and autoblock. He isnt stopping those two from being overused for that scenario.
Having issues with encroaching stun? Nick/ cap./ doom. Quake. Corvus and sp2 cycle. So where is he the first preference?
We’ve established he’s not the best immortality, indestructible, or damage too. So what is he best at?
I could make this argument for IMIW, he does so much, taking little parts from so many different champions. He has tons of uses, so much utility, big numbers. But there’s a reason he’s not the top tech, or even remotely in the picture. Jack of all trades can only get you so far in the game, because at a certain point you stop needing one champion who can do 5 things decently, and you start needing 5 champions who can do 1 thing each very well.
I don’t even know where to begin telling you you’re wrong.
Her phases allowing for 0 block damage, means you can play her on 1% health for entire matches. Her massive damage, evade counter, crazy power gain, immunity to every single DOT in the game, phasing damage with hood synergy, on demand intercepts.
So what if phase is affected by AAR, because it’s an ability that doesn’t trigger only at 0% health, it doesn’t matter in war. The whole point of that is that assassin turns off Hercules’ immortality, don’t use that as a reason why ghost’s phase makes her a jack of all trades
Ghost is a master of almost all.