Hercules immortality bug (or hotfix)

Fuzzycat · August 2021

Demonzfyre said:

Fuzzycat said:

Demonzfyre said:

Fuzzycat said:

Demonzfyre said:

Fuzzycat said:

Demonzfyre said:

Fuzzycat said:

CoatHang3r said:

Fuzzycat said:

Demonzfyre said:

GOODI3 said:

CoatHang3r said:

GOODI3 said:

CoatHang3r said:
The thing that is defined to be removed by sp3s is now being removed by sp3s? For shame!
How can one remove something that is not yet there? That what we call magic!
If something is not there he should die anyways.
I would kindly refer you to reread his sig ability and FuzzyCat’s first post. The immortality buff applies on a knockout blow. If it has not been applied, it therefore cannot be removed.

With your logic, it not only applies but is then immediately removed…mind you all during one sp3. 😂 Funny I never see any buffs during the sp3 animations?

Applies on a knockout blow yes EXCEPT IS REMOVED BY SPECIAL ATTACK 3. He goes to zero health in SP3, immortality can't activate and he dies because it's an SP3.

This has been in his written abilities since day 1. This info hasn't ever changed.

Even to your point of "not seeing buffs during sp3 animations" it even calls out that it pauses during his SP3. Of course no buffs are show on SP3's because of the cut scene type of animation. Doesn't mean that they aren't there or have activated.
Ummm….I fail to understand how the word “removed” can have the same meaning as “prevented from triggering”. By fixing the so-called bug, Kabam literally “prevented” the immortality buff from “triggering” in case of SP3 attack and did not “remove” it.

When I read that immortality buff is “removed if struck by Special Attack 3”, I understand it as meaning that if the opponent fires a special attack 3 AFTER Hercules immortality buff has been activated and while that buff is ACTIVE, then that buff will be removed.

Someone correct me if my understanding is wrong.
Here ya go, from the first page.
Kabam Boo said:
Hi folks, Hercules' Signature ability is currently working as intended in this case. We apologise that there was a bug before, but it has since been resolved by our team.

Please refer to Hercules' Champion Spotlight for the full description of his Signature Ability:

Signature Ability - Son of Zeus

- Once per fight when receiving damage that would result in a knockout, gain an Immortality Buff preventing death and making Hercules Unblockable for 9.00 seconds. Immortality is paused during personal Special Attacks or while landing Basic Attacks and is removed if struck by Special Attack 3.

And despite numerous published Youtube videos showcasing this “bug” as one of the strengths of an awakened Hercules, Kabam came to know of this “bug” just now and decided to silently remove/fix it, without any announcement or advance notice? As if this “bug” never existed?? That’s a classic Kabam move, I would say.

And what’s more interesting is that if it was a “bug” all along, how come no player (especially those who are vigorously defending Kabam now) pointed out this “bug” in the forums or elsewhere?? Especially those who faced this “bug” when fighting against Hercules boss in the monthly Cavalier EQ?

We all understand that Kabam, as the game developer, call all the shots here, but lets call spade a spade - Kabam messed up big time here, especially by trying to “fix” a “bug” silently and their covert action unfortunately speaks volumes about their intention.
Your taking CCP videos as gospel. They aren't. They don't always have a full understanding of the champ as they are just getting to test them. They aren't Kabam spokesperson and are subject to being wrong as well. Not a single video came out that I can find of a CCP before the EQ started showcases what you call his ability.
And nobody thought of questioning or pointing out this “bug” till Kabam decided to silently nerf… “fix” the “bug”? Not a single Youtuber? Nobody?? Even though such a “bug” was so obvious and glaring when fighting against Hercules boss in the monthly Cavalier EQ?

And this proves my point - that there’s no point arguing over this. Anyways, Kabam calls all the shots…including calling something a “bug” and “fixing” it covertly. We’re just wasting our breathe arguing. Kabam’s already minted enough $$$$$$ from the countless featured Cavalier crystals players bought, hoping to pull Hercules. And now that the hype’s dying down, bring down Hercules a notch or two. Classic!
Have you seen what happens to people when they report "pro player" bugs on these forums?

So Hercules isn't a good champ now he can't tank an Sp3? That one little tidbit changes him from god tier to trash?
No Hercules isn’t trash now but he’s certainly lesser of an OP god that Youtubers had made him out to be.

And yes, it’s strange that there’s an uproar over the “little tidbit changes”. But, it’s stranger that Kabam would care to silently make this “little tidbit change”.

All this uproar proves that it would have done Kabam and the player base a whole lot of good if Kabam had announced about the “fix” before “fixing” him. Given Kabam’s history of silently nerfing OP champions, the players are justified to think that this is another silent nerf.
No one's arguing that they shouldn't have announced it. Everyone has said there should have been something said like in the hotfix notes or a sticky thread.

Kabam doesn't have a history of silently nerfing champs. Bishop is literally the only champ that has been anything anywhere near a silent nerf. I'm sure you're an expert though and can list all the silently nerfed champs in Kabams history though. So list them all out for me.
I’m not trying to be adversarial here. Anyways, I’m done discussing about this because as I said before - Kabam calls all the shots here.
Lol of course. Makes a bold claim about a history of silently nerfed champs and now when asked to provide that history, now you're not trying to be adversarial and won't say anymore. Lol what a trip

You said it yourself. Bishop. Or that wasn’t history enough for you?

GroundedWisdom · August 2021

Unannounced nerfs? A tad bit dramatic, no?

Fuzzycat · August 2021

GroundedWisdom said:
Unannounced nerfs? A tad bit dramatic, no?

Lol. Nothing’s overdramatic where Kabam is concerned.

Demonzfyre · August 2021

Fuzzycat said:

Demonzfyre said:

Fuzzycat said:

Demonzfyre said:

Fuzzycat said:

Demonzfyre said:

Fuzzycat said:

Demonzfyre said:

Fuzzycat said:

CoatHang3r said:

Fuzzycat said:

Demonzfyre said:

GOODI3 said:

CoatHang3r said:

GOODI3 said:

CoatHang3r said:
The thing that is defined to be removed by sp3s is now being removed by sp3s? For shame!
How can one remove something that is not yet there? That what we call magic!
If something is not there he should die anyways.
I would kindly refer you to reread his sig ability and FuzzyCat’s first post. The immortality buff applies on a knockout blow. If it has not been applied, it therefore cannot be removed.

With your logic, it not only applies but is then immediately removed…mind you all during one sp3. 😂 Funny I never see any buffs during the sp3 animations?

Applies on a knockout blow yes EXCEPT IS REMOVED BY SPECIAL ATTACK 3. He goes to zero health in SP3, immortality can't activate and he dies because it's an SP3.

This has been in his written abilities since day 1. This info hasn't ever changed.

Even to your point of "not seeing buffs during sp3 animations" it even calls out that it pauses during his SP3. Of course no buffs are show on SP3's because of the cut scene type of animation. Doesn't mean that they aren't there or have activated.
Ummm….I fail to understand how the word “removed” can have the same meaning as “prevented from triggering”. By fixing the so-called bug, Kabam literally “prevented” the immortality buff from “triggering” in case of SP3 attack and did not “remove” it.

When I read that immortality buff is “removed if struck by Special Attack 3”, I understand it as meaning that if the opponent fires a special attack 3 AFTER Hercules immortality buff has been activated and while that buff is ACTIVE, then that buff will be removed.

Someone correct me if my understanding is wrong.
Here ya go, from the first page.
Kabam Boo said:
Hi folks, Hercules' Signature ability is currently working as intended in this case. We apologise that there was a bug before, but it has since been resolved by our team.

Please refer to Hercules' Champion Spotlight for the full description of his Signature Ability:

Signature Ability - Son of Zeus

- Once per fight when receiving damage that would result in a knockout, gain an Immortality Buff preventing death and making Hercules Unblockable for 9.00 seconds. Immortality is paused during personal Special Attacks or while landing Basic Attacks and is removed if struck by Special Attack 3.

And despite numerous published Youtube videos showcasing this “bug” as one of the strengths of an awakened Hercules, Kabam came to know of this “bug” just now and decided to silently remove/fix it, without any announcement or advance notice? As if this “bug” never existed?? That’s a classic Kabam move, I would say.

And what’s more interesting is that if it was a “bug” all along, how come no player (especially those who are vigorously defending Kabam now) pointed out this “bug” in the forums or elsewhere?? Especially those who faced this “bug” when fighting against Hercules boss in the monthly Cavalier EQ?

We all understand that Kabam, as the game developer, call all the shots here, but lets call spade a spade - Kabam messed up big time here, especially by trying to “fix” a “bug” silently and their covert action unfortunately speaks volumes about their intention.
Your taking CCP videos as gospel. They aren't. They don't always have a full understanding of the champ as they are just getting to test them. They aren't Kabam spokesperson and are subject to being wrong as well. Not a single video came out that I can find of a CCP before the EQ started showcases what you call his ability.
And nobody thought of questioning or pointing out this “bug” till Kabam decided to silently nerf… “fix” the “bug”? Not a single Youtuber? Nobody?? Even though such a “bug” was so obvious and glaring when fighting against Hercules boss in the monthly Cavalier EQ?

And this proves my point - that there’s no point arguing over this. Anyways, Kabam calls all the shots…including calling something a “bug” and “fixing” it covertly. We’re just wasting our breathe arguing. Kabam’s already minted enough $$$$$$ from the countless featured Cavalier crystals players bought, hoping to pull Hercules. And now that the hype’s dying down, bring down Hercules a notch or two. Classic!
Have you seen what happens to people when they report "pro player" bugs on these forums?

So Hercules isn't a good champ now he can't tank an Sp3? That one little tidbit changes him from god tier to trash?
No Hercules isn’t trash now but he’s certainly lesser of an OP god that Youtubers had made him out to be.

And yes, it’s strange that there’s an uproar over the “little tidbit changes”. But, it’s stranger that Kabam would care to silently make this “little tidbit change”.

All this uproar proves that it would have done Kabam and the player base a whole lot of good if Kabam had announced about the “fix” before “fixing” him. Given Kabam’s history of silently nerfing OP champions, the players are justified to think that this is another silent nerf.
No one's arguing that they shouldn't have announced it. Everyone has said there should have been something said like in the hotfix notes or a sticky thread.

Kabam doesn't have a history of silently nerfing champs. Bishop is literally the only champ that has been anything anywhere near a silent nerf. I'm sure you're an expert though and can list all the silently nerfed champs in Kabams history though. So list them all out for me.
I’m not trying to be adversarial here. Anyways, I’m done discussing about this because as I said before - Kabam calls all the shots here.
Lol of course. Makes a bold claim about a history of silently nerfed champs and now when asked to provide that history, now you're not trying to be adversarial and won't say anymore. Lol what a trip
You said it yourself. Bishop. Or that wasn’t history enough for you?

Since you're so into definitions...

Maybe Kabam silently nerfed your ability to explain what history means and ability to show that history. 🤷 At least I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong instead what you're doing.

Demonzfyre · August 2021

whatitdobayb said:
I think it’s crazy that this could’ve been avoided if Kabam was pre-emptive in pointing out it wasn’t an intended interaction.

Instead they once again choose to forego any type of communication and stir the pot against themselves.

I do wonder what goes on at that HQ of theirs.

Well this happened during one of the most tedious month and a half in the game. Don't you think it's possible with everything going on with the gameplay issues it was overlooked?

Fuzzycat · August 2021

And let’s be frank - if Hercules is supposed to be dead when he gets hit by SP3, then it seems immortality buff pales in comparison to indestructibility buff.

And that makes Hercules, a demi-god, a joke to Luke Cage, a mere mortal.

Demonzfyre · August 2021

Fuzzycat said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Unannounced nerfs? A tad bit dramatic, no?
Lol. Nothing’s overdramatic where Kabam is concerned.

Funny how quickly you collapse when proven wrong.

BigPoppaCBONE · August 2021

Demonzfyre said:

GOODI3 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

GOODI3 said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

GOODI3 said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

GOODI3 said:
This was not a “bug”, but a nerf. Odin prefight stacking was a bug.

@Kabam Miike Poor communication and handling of the situation. This is enough to make me say goodbye.

Ign: Tap Tap Swipe
I'm curious. You have a sig 200 R3 Hercules. Would you rank him down if you could? When you first went for him, did you know he could tank 1 SP3? Is this why you went for him? I agree that Kabam handled this badly but that doesn't make it a nerf and I don't see how being able to tank 1 SP3 is that significant. Luke Cage can tank multiple SP3s and I don't see a lot of people ranking him. I have a 6* Herc but wasn't able to dupe him. But when I burned a lot of units on cavs to get him, I was unaware of the SP3 thing.
Rankdown tickets won’t fix the situation. I genuinely did not come to the forums to debate whether it was a “bug” or nerf. We know it was a nerf. Yes, I was well aware of the ability prior to pulling the champ, using a generic ag and all of the stones. If tanking one sp3 was not a “big deal”, why nerf him then? Rhetorical question.

Btw, there are other champs besides LC that can tank…

Again, genuinely curious. Would you still have used the generic on him if you knew what you know now? I would use a generic on mine. Whether or not it is a nerf depends on whether or not you believe that the devs did not intend for him to be able to tank a SP3. I do agree with your rhetorical question. I don't think this ability was game breaking and they'd have done better to leave him the way he was. But he's still amazing and I don't think its this huge thing some are making it out to be.

I am aware there are others. Luke Cage was an example, not an exhaustive list lol
Tbh I most likely would have saved the generic.

Not big on speculating what the developers intent was during the entire month of July (here we are August 17th) and doing so won’t change the fact that it was a nerf.

“Nerf (lowercase)Slang. (in a video game) to reconfigure (an existing character or weapon), making it less powerful.”
It wasn't a reconfigure. It was never meant to be that "powerful" to begin with. It was a fix.
I’m really confused now. The literal definition of reconfigure is to change. So are we saying he was not changed from how he was advertised and operated all of July? You guessed it…rhetorical question.
His advertised abilities is what's written in his kit. His kit has not changed. Anything outside of what's written in his kit is considered a bug. His kit says he can't survive sp3s or trigger immortality. It was triggering that. That's a bug. Has nothing to do with the CCP videos. His kit wasn't ever changed.

His kit definitely doesn't say "he can't survive sp3s or trigger immortality". It says "removed if struck by SP3".
If they wanted him to die to sp3s, they should have used their words to very clearly convey that. It wouldn't have been hard. Interpreting it the way some of you are here, it's like the more torturous and ridiculous the route, whatever as long as it ends at Kabam's right.
The way it reads now, any knockout damage will trigger immortality, the buff will proc and an SP3 will remove the buff. There's no possible way they didn't know that this was happening. If they were having discussions about it being too op, they should have said that it might change pending the output of the discussions. Falling back on "it was a bug the whole time" and somehow no one noticed or said anything is ludicrous. If it was a bug, nothing stopped them from saying they were looking at it at least.
It doesn't make any sense for someone who didn't want it to work against sp3s, to write it the way they did. If they ran into unforeseen issues with the immortality process, they should just say so and quit feeding the paranoid.

Followup, if it procs for any amount of time and is then removed, should Loki's SP3 Curse steal it

BigPoppaCBONE · August 2021

Jank39 said:
I don't even have Hercules but you would think that after all the fails Kabam has put out over the last few months they would either proactively communicate this change or just leave Hercules as is to avoid further angering the community 🤦

Most anticipated release of the year, hype through the roof, all eyes on this champ, it would be off-brand if it didn't end up like this. 😂

BigPoppaCBONE · August 2021

I could see the issue if it worked as written with single hit SP3s but

The_Sentry06 said:
How's the thread even up? Bottomline is Kabam changed the ability of a champion and for some reason, didn't mention it anywhere which is the real problem.

Also tbh, the posts calling out Demonzfyre and GW for derailing the thread are just as bad. Constantly threatening to quit and coming up with multiple posts to insult each other and just to say "won't be listening to them" is derailing too you know.

Complete changelogs would be nice. A heads up when the team finds something isn't quite right or isn't working the way they want would be great. Also, sometimes it wouldn't hurt if they just let some things go and didn't mess with it. It's not always worth the hassle. It's not like there aren't ways to crush him despite immortality. We proved it by having to beat him dozens of times. He's a trash defender without nodes propping him up.

Jank39 · August 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

Jank39 said:
I don't even have Hercules but you would think that after all the fails Kabam has put out over the last few months they would either proactively communicate this change or just leave Hercules as is to avoid further angering the community 🤦
Leaving him bugged isn't a solution to all the other issues, and it isn't a solution at all if it makes him overly-powerful.

Agree. Except it could be argued from the description that he can tank an sp3 provided immortality hasn't proc'd yet... even then they could have communicated it in advance....

Bugmat78 · August 2021

Definitely an example of extremely poor communication with the player base by kabam.

In a month like this full of other game-breaking bugs, glitches and wrecked game engines, fixing the bug of a champion voted for by the player base, with no communication that the bug even existed, more than a month after his release, is very poor from them. The after-the-fact explanation only makes it seem worse.

But hey - we can just change some text and everything will be A-OK. #PR101

Wfpkstevezilla · August 2021

Jesus Christ another uncommunicated bug. This is trash, Kabam. Kabam should have gotten out ahead of this after seeing any of the CCP videos.

Ironman3000 · August 2021

If they really intended him to die from a SP3 it would read:

"Once per fight when receiving damage that would result in a knockout, except form a Special Attack 3, gain an Immortality Buff preventing death and making Hercules Unblockable for 3.9 to 9 seconds."

GroundedWisdom · August 2021

Speedro420 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

5RSLY said:

Magrailothos said:

The misleading YouTube videos, and where responsibility lies for people having the wrong impression... That's a very different argument I'm not planning to get into. I can see several sides to that story. If you guys really want Herc-specific RDTs or a system like when Namor was "rebalanced" and you get back any resources you've used on him... Go for it. But consider where in earth you'll actually use those resources: if Herc isn't enough (even without the ability to tank SP3s)... who will be?
Why would you say that the youtube videos were misleading when they were simply showing how he performed? At what point did Kabam stand up and say "hey this isn't how he is supposed to work, we are going to change it"

When shang-chi was introduced they accidentally created a mechanism by which he could infinitely chain combos. They realized the error, acknowledged it and set forth expectations that this would be changed.

The way herc was "fixed" was a completely silent change without warning. When people realized it, Kabam deleted two threads in general which were bringing light to this issue since no one knew if it was an intended nerf or not. Rather than give advance notice or approach the matter head on, this change was clandestine and it can't help but leave a very sour taste in my mouth (and probably many others) despite the fact that I still think that Herc is a great champ, he can just no longer tank SP3s.

Like others have pointed out, pro-player "bugs" seem to take priority over other issues in the game that have persisted. I would just prefer if Kabam would focus on the quality of the user experience as a means to increase revenue rather than count how many units they can make users spend to complete content.
There is no such thing as a pro-player bug. No one also posted asking if it was the intended outcome before the fix was implemented either. Once again, this is the only place to ask those questions. Not YouTube. As useful a resource as it can be, Kabam can only speak for Kabam. If it wasn't even brought to their attention by Players, how can they respond? It's been a month of working on some pretty significant issues.
As for those Threads, it wasn't until I pointed out that the Bugs Section was the proper place to inquire, that it was responded to appropriately. This place has a history of generating "silent nerf" Posts, and if we're not sure if it's working as intended or not, there's a way to find out.
Kabam promotes the CCP do they not? It is Kabams game correct? Therefore it is up to them to say hey this doesn’t work like this and let the community know it. It goes with their transparency plan. The bugs are out of control, the game is broken and has been. Profits are down and this will make it worse. You all can continue to defend them until the end of the game because it’s coming sooner rather than later because of things just like this.

They work with them, sure. Do they orchestrate everything they put out? Do they watch every piece of content they put out? No. Kabam speaks for Kabam. Not the CCP. Not exclusively. As for the end of the game, this is the longest dying game I've ever seen because people have been threatening that for years.

GroundedWisdom · August 2021

Jank39 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Jank39 said:
I don't even have Hercules but you would think that after all the fails Kabam has put out over the last few months they would either proactively communicate this change or just leave Hercules as is to avoid further angering the community 🤦
Leaving him bugged isn't a solution to all the other issues, and it isn't a solution at all if it makes him overly-powerful.
Agree. Except it could be argued from the description that he can tank an sp3 provided immortality hasn't proc'd yet... even then they could have communicated it in advance....

It can't proc from an action that removes it. That's a canceling out situation.

Demonzfyre · August 2021

Gmonkey said:

Demonzfyre said:

GOODI3 said:

CoatHang3r said:

GOODI3 said:

CoatHang3r said:
The thing that is defined to be removed by sp3s is now being removed by sp3s? For shame!
How can one remove something that is not yet there? That what we call magic!
If something is not there he should die anyways.
I would kindly refer you to reread his sig ability and FuzzyCat’s first post. The immortality buff applies on a knockout blow. If it has not been applied, it therefore cannot be removed.

With your logic, it not only applies but is then immediately removed…mind you all during one sp3. 😂 Funny I never see any buffs during the sp3 animations?

Applies on a knockout blow yes EXCEPT IS REMOVED BY SPECIAL ATTACK 3. He goes to zero health in SP3, immortality can't activate and he dies because it's an SP3.

This has been in his written abilities since day 1. This info hasn't ever changed.

Even to your point of "not seeing buffs during sp3 animations" it even calls out that it pauses during his SP3. Of course no buffs are show on SP3's because of the cut scene type of animation. Doesn't mean that they aren't there or have activated.
But it never functioned like this and kabam were happy to take revives for a broken eq and side quest. It worked a specific way, they changed it and no notes of the change.

You're literally explaining how bugs work.

BigPoppaCBONE · August 2021

GroundedWisdom said:

Speedro420 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

5RSLY said:

Magrailothos said:

The misleading YouTube videos, and where responsibility lies for people having the wrong impression... That's a very different argument I'm not planning to get into. I can see several sides to that story. If you guys really want Herc-specific RDTs or a system like when Namor was "rebalanced" and you get back any resources you've used on him... Go for it. But consider where in earth you'll actually use those resources: if Herc isn't enough (even without the ability to tank SP3s)... who will be?
Why would you say that the youtube videos were misleading when they were simply showing how he performed? At what point did Kabam stand up and say "hey this isn't how he is supposed to work, we are going to change it"

When shang-chi was introduced they accidentally created a mechanism by which he could infinitely chain combos. They realized the error, acknowledged it and set forth expectations that this would be changed.

The way herc was "fixed" was a completely silent change without warning. When people realized it, Kabam deleted two threads in general which were bringing light to this issue since no one knew if it was an intended nerf or not. Rather than give advance notice or approach the matter head on, this change was clandestine and it can't help but leave a very sour taste in my mouth (and probably many others) despite the fact that I still think that Herc is a great champ, he can just no longer tank SP3s.

Like others have pointed out, pro-player "bugs" seem to take priority over other issues in the game that have persisted. I would just prefer if Kabam would focus on the quality of the user experience as a means to increase revenue rather than count how many units they can make users spend to complete content.
There is no such thing as a pro-player bug. No one also posted asking if it was the intended outcome before the fix was implemented either. Once again, this is the only place to ask those questions. Not YouTube. As useful a resource as it can be, Kabam can only speak for Kabam. If it wasn't even brought to their attention by Players, how can they respond? It's been a month of working on some pretty significant issues.
As for those Threads, it wasn't until I pointed out that the Bugs Section was the proper place to inquire, that it was responded to appropriately. This place has a history of generating "silent nerf" Posts, and if we're not sure if it's working as intended or not, there's a way to find out.
Kabam promotes the CCP do they not? It is Kabams game correct? Therefore it is up to them to say hey this doesn’t work like this and let the community know it. It goes with their transparency plan. The bugs are out of control, the game is broken and has been. Profits are down and this will make it worse. You all can continue to defend them until the end of the game because it’s coming sooner rather than later because of things just like this.
They work with them, sure. Do they orchestrate everything they put out? Do they watch every piece of content they put out? No. Kabam speaks for Kabam. Not the CCP. Not exclusively. As for the end of the game, this is the longest dying game I've ever seen because people have been threatening that for years.

Don't be insane. Of course someone at Kabam is responsible for monitoring CCP content.

GroundedWisdom · August 2021

BigPoppaCBONE said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Speedro420 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

5RSLY said:

Magrailothos said:

The misleading YouTube videos, and where responsibility lies for people having the wrong impression... That's a very different argument I'm not planning to get into. I can see several sides to that story. If you guys really want Herc-specific RDTs or a system like when Namor was "rebalanced" and you get back any resources you've used on him... Go for it. But consider where in earth you'll actually use those resources: if Herc isn't enough (even without the ability to tank SP3s)... who will be?
Why would you say that the youtube videos were misleading when they were simply showing how he performed? At what point did Kabam stand up and say "hey this isn't how he is supposed to work, we are going to change it"

When shang-chi was introduced they accidentally created a mechanism by which he could infinitely chain combos. They realized the error, acknowledged it and set forth expectations that this would be changed.

The way herc was "fixed" was a completely silent change without warning. When people realized it, Kabam deleted two threads in general which were bringing light to this issue since no one knew if it was an intended nerf or not. Rather than give advance notice or approach the matter head on, this change was clandestine and it can't help but leave a very sour taste in my mouth (and probably many others) despite the fact that I still think that Herc is a great champ, he can just no longer tank SP3s.

Like others have pointed out, pro-player "bugs" seem to take priority over other issues in the game that have persisted. I would just prefer if Kabam would focus on the quality of the user experience as a means to increase revenue rather than count how many units they can make users spend to complete content.
There is no such thing as a pro-player bug. No one also posted asking if it was the intended outcome before the fix was implemented either. Once again, this is the only place to ask those questions. Not YouTube. As useful a resource as it can be, Kabam can only speak for Kabam. If it wasn't even brought to their attention by Players, how can they respond? It's been a month of working on some pretty significant issues.
As for those Threads, it wasn't until I pointed out that the Bugs Section was the proper place to inquire, that it was responded to appropriately. This place has a history of generating "silent nerf" Posts, and if we're not sure if it's working as intended or not, there's a way to find out.
Kabam promotes the CCP do they not? It is Kabams game correct? Therefore it is up to them to say hey this doesn’t work like this and let the community know it. It goes with their transparency plan. The bugs are out of control, the game is broken and has been. Profits are down and this will make it worse. You all can continue to defend them until the end of the game because it’s coming sooner rather than later because of things just like this.
They work with them, sure. Do they orchestrate everything they put out? Do they watch every piece of content they put out? No. Kabam speaks for Kabam. Not the CCP. Not exclusively. As for the end of the game, this is the longest dying game I've ever seen because people have been threatening that for years.
Don't be insane. Of course someone at Kabam is responsible for monitoring CCP content.

So you think someone is responsible for watching every video that every member of the CCP puts out, and checking for indiscrepancies? Hmm....

Demonzfyre · August 2021

BigPoppaCBONE said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Speedro420 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

5RSLY said:

Magrailothos said:

The misleading YouTube videos, and where responsibility lies for people having the wrong impression... That's a very different argument I'm not planning to get into. I can see several sides to that story. If you guys really want Herc-specific RDTs or a system like when Namor was "rebalanced" and you get back any resources you've used on him... Go for it. But consider where in earth you'll actually use those resources: if Herc isn't enough (even without the ability to tank SP3s)... who will be?
Why would you say that the youtube videos were misleading when they were simply showing how he performed? At what point did Kabam stand up and say "hey this isn't how he is supposed to work, we are going to change it"

When shang-chi was introduced they accidentally created a mechanism by which he could infinitely chain combos. They realized the error, acknowledged it and set forth expectations that this would be changed.

The way herc was "fixed" was a completely silent change without warning. When people realized it, Kabam deleted two threads in general which were bringing light to this issue since no one knew if it was an intended nerf or not. Rather than give advance notice or approach the matter head on, this change was clandestine and it can't help but leave a very sour taste in my mouth (and probably many others) despite the fact that I still think that Herc is a great champ, he can just no longer tank SP3s.

Like others have pointed out, pro-player "bugs" seem to take priority over other issues in the game that have persisted. I would just prefer if Kabam would focus on the quality of the user experience as a means to increase revenue rather than count how many units they can make users spend to complete content.
There is no such thing as a pro-player bug. No one also posted asking if it was the intended outcome before the fix was implemented either. Once again, this is the only place to ask those questions. Not YouTube. As useful a resource as it can be, Kabam can only speak for Kabam. If it wasn't even brought to their attention by Players, how can they respond? It's been a month of working on some pretty significant issues.
As for those Threads, it wasn't until I pointed out that the Bugs Section was the proper place to inquire, that it was responded to appropriately. This place has a history of generating "silent nerf" Posts, and if we're not sure if it's working as intended or not, there's a way to find out.
Kabam promotes the CCP do they not? It is Kabams game correct? Therefore it is up to them to say hey this doesn’t work like this and let the community know it. It goes with their transparency plan. The bugs are out of control, the game is broken and has been. Profits are down and this will make it worse. You all can continue to defend them until the end of the game because it’s coming sooner rather than later because of things just like this.
They work with them, sure. Do they orchestrate everything they put out? Do they watch every piece of content they put out? No. Kabam speaks for Kabam. Not the CCP. Not exclusively. As for the end of the game, this is the longest dying game I've ever seen because people have been threatening that for years.
Don't be insane. Of course someone at Kabam is responsible for monitoring CCP content.

I dunno. Comments Seatin make about the game and it's state during those videos make me wonder how moderated they are.

Texas_11 · August 2021

GOODI3 said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

GOODI3 said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

GOODI3 said:
This was not a “bug”, but a nerf. Odin prefight stacking was a bug.

@Kabam Miike Poor communication and handling of the situation. This is enough to make me say goodbye.

Ign: Tap Tap Swipe
I'm curious. You have a sig 200 R3 Hercules. Would you rank him down if you could? When you first went for him, did you know he could tank 1 SP3? Is this why you went for him? I agree that Kabam handled this badly but that doesn't make it a nerf and I don't see how being able to tank 1 SP3 is that significant. Luke Cage can tank multiple SP3s and I don't see a lot of people ranking him. I have a 6* Herc but wasn't able to dupe him. But when I burned a lot of units on cavs to get him, I was unaware of the SP3 thing.
Rankdown tickets won’t fix the situation. I genuinely did not come to the forums to debate whether it was a “bug” or nerf. We know it was a nerf. Yes, I was well aware of the ability prior to pulling the champ, using a generic ag and all of the stones. If tanking one sp3 was not a “big deal”, why nerf him then? Rhetorical question.

Btw, there are other champs besides LC that can tank…

Again, genuinely curious. Would you still have used the generic on him if you knew what you know now? I would use a generic on mine. Whether or not it is a nerf depends on whether or not you believe that the devs did not intend for him to be able to tank a SP3. I do agree with your rhetorical question. I don't think this ability was game breaking and they'd have done better to leave him the way he was. But he's still amazing and I don't think its this huge thing some are making it out to be.

I am aware there are others. Luke Cage was an example, not an exhaustive list lol
Tbh I most likely would have saved the generic.

Not big on speculating what the developers intent was during the entire month of July (here we are August 17th) and doing so won’t change the fact that it was a nerf.

“Nerf (lowercase)Slang. (in a video game) to reconfigure (an existing character or weapon), making it less powerful.”

He needs his sig to be any good. Quit the 🧢

GroundedWisdom · August 2021

As far as I'm aware, the only Official Review was the Deep Dive, and it wasn't even pointed out then. So no, they weren't promoting this bug through the CCP.

The_Sentry06 · August 2021

GOODI3 said:

Texas_11 said:

GOODI3 said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

GOODI3 said:

LeNoirFaineant said:

GOODI3 said:
This was not a “bug”, but a nerf. Odin prefight stacking was a bug.

@Kabam Miike Poor communication and handling of the situation. This is enough to make me say goodbye.

Ign: Tap Tap Swipe
I'm curious. You have a sig 200 R3 Hercules. Would you rank him down if you could? When you first went for him, did you know he could tank 1 SP3? Is this why you went for him? I agree that Kabam handled this badly but that doesn't make it a nerf and I don't see how being able to tank 1 SP3 is that significant. Luke Cage can tank multiple SP3s and I don't see a lot of people ranking him. I have a 6* Herc but wasn't able to dupe him. But when I burned a lot of units on cavs to get him, I was unaware of the SP3 thing.
Rankdown tickets won’t fix the situation. I genuinely did not come to the forums to debate whether it was a “bug” or nerf. We know it was a nerf. Yes, I was well aware of the ability prior to pulling the champ, using a generic ag and all of the stones. If tanking one sp3 was not a “big deal”, why nerf him then? Rhetorical question.

Btw, there are other champs besides LC that can tank…

Again, genuinely curious. Would you still have used the generic on him if you knew what you know now? I would use a generic on mine. Whether or not it is a nerf depends on whether or not you believe that the devs did not intend for him to be able to tank a SP3. I do agree with your rhetorical question. I don't think this ability was game breaking and they'd have done better to leave him the way he was. But he's still amazing and I don't think its this huge thing some are making it out to be.

I am aware there are others. Luke Cage was an example, not an exhaustive list lol
Tbh I most likely would have saved the generic.

Not big on speculating what the developers intent was during the entire month of July (here we are August 17th) and doing so won’t change the fact that it was a nerf.

“Nerf (lowercase)Slang. (in a video game) to reconfigure (an existing character or weapon), making it less powerful.”
He needs his sig to be any good. Quit the 🧢
Question: Would you still have used a generic on him?

Answer: No.

Run along now…

I mean he can still go immortal and has that nice combat power rate increase which helps out nicely. I personally would still use it cause more often that not, I die from getting clipped by unblockable specials or basic attacks.

OMGJimbo · August 2021

Kabam Boo said:
Hi folks, Hercules' Signature ability is currently working as intended in this case. We apologise that there was a bug before, but it has since been resolved by our team.

Please refer to Hercules' Champion Spotlight for the full description of his Signature Ability:

Signature Ability - Son of Zeus

- Once per fight when receiving damage that would result in a knockout, gain an Immortality Buff preventing death and making Hercules Unblockable for 9.00 seconds. Immortality is paused during personal Special Attacks or while landing Basic Attacks and is removed if struck by Special Attack 3.

NO. Any way you read his sig ability, it’s clearly states that any damage that would’ve knocked him out will trigger his immortality (you did not list sp3 as an exception). That clearly means that even the damage is done by sp3, it will trigger his immortality, hence he doesn’t die. You then went on to say that sp3 will “remove” his immortality in the same sentence where you listed this condition while immortality is already active: “Immortality is paused during personal Special Attacks or while landing Basic Attacks..” Both of these statements back up the argument that this is a silent nerf. We deserve an explanation.

OMGJimbo · August 2021

Any way you read his sig ability, it explicitly states that any damage that would’ve knocked him out will trigger his immortality (you did not list sp3 as an exception). That clearly means that even the damage is done by sp3, it will trigger his immortality, hence he doesn’t die. You then went on to say that sp3 will “remove” his immortality in the same sentence where you listed this condition while immortality is already active: “Immortality is paused during personal Special Attacks or while landing Basic Attacks..” Both of these statements back up the argument that this is a silent nerf. We deserve an explanation. We can’t go silent on this.

Fuzzycat · August 2021

OMGJimbo said:

Kabam Boo said:
Hi folks, Hercules' Signature ability is currently working as intended in this case. We apologise that there was a bug before, but it has since been resolved by our team.

Please refer to Hercules' Champion Spotlight for the full description of his Signature Ability:

Signature Ability - Son of Zeus

- Once per fight when receiving damage that would result in a knockout, gain an Immortality Buff preventing death and making Hercules Unblockable for 9.00 seconds. Immortality is paused during personal Special Attacks or while landing Basic Attacks and is removed if struck by Special Attack 3.

Kabam Boo said:
Hi folks, Hercules' Signature ability is currently working as intended in this case. We apologise that there was a bug before, but it has since been resolved by our team.

Please refer to Hercules' Champion Spotlight for the full description of his Signature Ability:

Signature Ability - Son of Zeus

- Once per fight when receiving damage that would result in a knockout, gain an Immortality Buff preventing death and making Hercules Unblockable for 9.00 seconds. Immortality is paused during personal Special Attacks or while landing Basic Attacks and is removed if struck by Special Attack 3.

NO. Any way you read his sig ability, it’s clearly states that any damage that would’ve knocked him out will trigger his immortality (you did not list sp3 as an exception). That clearly means that even the damage is done by sp3, it will trigger his immortality, hence he doesn’t die. You then went on to say that sp3 will “remove” his immortality in the same sentence where you listed this condition while immortality is already active: “Immortality is paused during personal Special Attacks or while landing Basic Attacks..” Both of these statements back up the argument that this is a silent nerf. We deserve an explanation.

Precisely. Either Kabam poorly worded Hercules signature abilities OR this is a silent nerf. Obviously, Kabam will say they poorly worded the abilities 😂😂😂