Guillotine, A community choice champ and nerf? Are u happy with this buff?

Looks like another disappointment, just saw 2 full breakdown video.

Comments

Please. Revoke the buff. I held such high hopes, and now I lost one of my most favorite champs. Guillotine has been with me ever since I started the game. I love her animations, and I loved the crits, bleeds, and Regen she had before. In fact, even before the buff was announced, I had her as a 5* 5/65 Sig 200. I took her into AQ all the time. And now, I can't. She can't Regen to save her life. You say you got rid of the Special 3 damage because her Regen would have been to strong. Okay.
Lets say I have 10 souls and fire an SP3. That deals 20% of the opponents health. Lets say the opponent has 350,768 health. 20% of that would be 70,153. 2% of that would have been 1403. That's too strong??? I could heal 10 times as much Pre-buff!!! And quite regularly. All you'd need is 8 or more souls at sig 200. Even Tigra has better healing than that.

Wicket329

Kabam - get back in there and make her better. You can do much better. Increase chance to Bleed, Critical Bleed and Regeneration. Done. Shut us all up quickly. Your silence the last 3 weeks on this is telling and greatly widening the rift!

I have to disagree with you on this. Just increasing her damage and regen, while being nice, would still not be a good buff. The community selected her for an overhaul primarily because her utility was lacking. Neither what Kabam did nor the buff you are describing address that problem. She needs some kind of buff or power control or something else that makes her actually viable in content beyond Act 5.

Bendy

I kinda like the buff only thing i hate is theres no way to increase the bleed curse which seems to be her source of damage and the heavy attack not sure its good enough since it doesnt state if hit with first or last hit activates the bleed curse since been practising it,

Overall it isnt a bad buff just the main issue wasnt resolved which was the utility she has better regen reversal which to me is still outdated since so many heal reverse now that its quite pointless.

Do i want a rebuff for her is hard to say since i do like this buff a lot but id like to have utility bleed curse activates on both parts of the heavy so u can get the nice damage and some sort of utility as i dont care about regen as i played her unduped as a 6 r3. If she was rebuffed then yeah i want to see the utility added so she can do more parts than just a fun champ to play here and there like rol farming

Stagedear85

I think her buff is ok , i wouldn't call it an overhaul thou seems like a moderate update, this champ was chosen by the community months ago and to release something where its hard to be excited about is very underwhelming, like if it was just an value only update i would be ok with it but for something the community voted on with high expectation this is an huge disappointment and i really find it hard that anyone that enjoy playing this game test the buff version of the champ and said man i cant wait to release this, the community going to love her new kit, to be honest there's some to like but nothing to "wow" anyone, she's actually worst if you ask me than before after all my pre and post buff testing i found nothing where i can say man this is good. Please no more community Vote Buff its a waste of time and a let down for the community.

mbrace

I took her against WS with an optimal team, and she is slightly above average for damage. However, her general lack of mystic utility and utility in general makes her an average champ at best.

The_Sentry06

Will post here since kabam deleted the last guilly thread before I pressed post lol, gotta save those posts cos kabam be deleting threads

Firstly, they said they would never do something on the levle of Magneto ever again. So not only do we know that won't happen again but they know what is a good and what is a bad buff.

The problem is, it should be impossible to do a job this terrible when the expectation is so damn clear. You dont get a pat on the back for not screwing up your job. Its your job, its expected that you dont mess it up. The glaring part is, it should not be possible for any random MCOC player to create a more comprehensive buff in 5 minutes at 20% brainpower than a paid champion designer in three months of work. With this Guilly buff it looks like it was created by someone who's probably never played Guilly

It was an extremely simple target in terms of, "make her better" We shouldn't be arguing whether its better or worse....it was meant to be a champion buff, same horrible situation they found themselves in with Hood.

Also, the interview with ProffHoff and Kabambroccoli where we found out that theres a balance team responsible for ensuring champions coming into the game are reviewed to make sure they are balanced. It's not too much of a logical leap to say there would be similar for buffs.

How can you not be embarassed that you operate knowing if what you create is too overpowered, it will likely be balanced before entering the contest, and this is what you create?

The whole champion design team is not inept, but they are by no means competent,
Dare devil HK (embarassing), gamora, Hood, Nova, arguably black panther classic, Civil warrior isnt horrible but makes no sense mechanically, Guilly.

Watch kabam release in their typical lazy and toxic fashion that they "listened to us" so will reduce buff cadence to 1 per month to "really focus on quality". Same garbage they said before then in two consecutive months released two dreadful buffs.

DDHK, BP, The Hood and Civil Warrior are all great champions now though. Just because you don't like them/don't use them doesn't mean they aren't.

Jaded

Community votes for guillotine instead of antman. Those are upset with buff, I personally have no stake in this what so ever lmao. She wasn’t used before, she won’t be used now. No skin off my back but perhaps next time there is a vote people will think differently on who to vote for.

Enjoy the fight to “fix” guillotine lmao.
That is a very narrow minded view. Who is to say this is not an indicator for things to come.
Narrow minded? There are very few overhaul buffs that haven’t made the champion a lot better. This is just an example of what happens when people don’t anticipate getting what they don’t like. It was narrow minded to vote guilly initially, me not fighting for her to be “fixed” isn’t narrow mind. That’s me drawing a line in the sand and separating those that made the mistake to those that didn’t. Everyone knew guillotine had more usages then antman, everyone knew she wasn’t useless. Narrow minded voting caused this situation.

False. Maybe that is your opinion, but it isnt mine. Guilly needed some changes to become more consistent, and Kabam has consistently added to existing abilities to make them better, not butchered it completely. So yes, you are narrow minded. You wanted Antman to win, and it didnt happen. Get over it.

No, not narrow minded at all. Idc who won, I’m not the one on here complaining about her rework. I stated she didn’t need the overhaul, I didn’t say she didn’t need a buff. It mattered not to me who won this is not what I am basing my conversation on right now. But you are which is strange. 🧐 Maybe you had too much riding on this horse to see the bigger picture. Neither antman or guillotine would have made much of a difference on my roster. I’m not making this personal other then my POV that she didn’t need an overhaul.

Webslinger1967

I would like rank down tickets, this was not a buff

Webslinger1967

I ranked her up before her buff and did WS in 252 hits without synergy. Now with a synergy team she is 230 hits.

DNA3000

Community votes for guillotine instead of antman. Those are upset with buff, I personally have no stake in this what so ever lmao. She wasn’t used before, she won’t be used now. No skin off my back but perhaps next time there is a vote people will think differently on who to vote for.

Enjoy the fight to “fix” guillotine lmao.
That is a very narrow minded view. Who is to say this is not an indicator for things to come.
Narrow minded? There are very few overhaul buffs that haven’t made the champion a lot better. This is just an example of what happens when people don’t anticipate getting what they don’t like. It was narrow minded to vote guilly initially, me not fighting for her to be “fixed” isn’t narrow mind. That’s me drawing a line in the sand and separating those that made the mistake to those that didn’t. Everyone knew guillotine had more usages then antman, everyone knew she wasn’t useless. Narrow minded voting caused this situation.

False. Maybe that is your opinion, but it isnt mine. Guilly needed some changes to become more consistent, and Kabam has consistently added to existing abilities to make them better, not butchered it completely. So yes, you are narrow minded. You wanted Antman to win, and it didnt happen. Get over it.

False? Lmao I’m not the one making this personal. Idc who won, I didn’t even vote lmao. Neither would make much of a difference on my roster. The only opinion I’m giving is she didn’t need an overhaul, sure buff her moderately increasing some numbers is basically all she needed. Antman could have used an entire overhaul tho. It’s not even close to being narrow minded, sorry people you made a mistake and refuse to live with it now.

The people saying that voting Ant-Man would have generated a better result either have a time machine, Cerebro, or just stating nonsense. The idea that Guilly's update ended up poorly because she already possessed more utility than Ant-Man is straight up false. Guilly's update ended up poorly because the developers had a very specific idea of where to take the champ, and that idea was faulty. The exact same thing could happen to Ant-Man or any other champion.

It could in fact have been far worse with Ant-Man in one respect: the devs decided to focus on bleed damage with Guillotine instead of widening offensive utility. They could have decided to focus on Glancing with Ant-Man and turn him into a defensive monster. They don't deliberately try to make defensive monsters, but they are fully capable of accidentally making them (cf: Bishop).

Meanwhile, the idea that Guillotine could have just been given a tweak instead of an overhaul misunderstands what the distinction is between tweaks and overhauls. Guillotine's soul mechanics were broken in modern terms given how they were acquired and decayed. Changing Guillotine's soul mechanics immediately makes Guillotine's update into an overhaul, because fundamental changes to mechanics demand the overhaul process. Any change to Guillotine that did not address soul mechanics in long fights would make Guillotine basically worthless in most modern higher tier content, which is a complete waste of time and resources to burn on a champion.

Texas_11

I like her

Texas_11

I like her
Careful, if you disagree with the majority in this area you’ll be bullied to see it their way with disagree spams 🤣🤣

I’m not sure if people disagree with me or not, but if it helps at least one person get through content it was a successful buff.

No one has used gully since ROL Wolverine and she was a crappy synergy piece to have around.

Her heal is better because it’s more consistent, so you net more overall. I’m not sure why people go straight to the negatives. People didn’t even know you could stack her stuff, then when they realize , they say her play style is too heavy dependent. Every mutant has this play style.

She can do what she does better than before. Not to mention her soul mechanic is way better.

Lately it just seems that people want to grab their pitchforks because it’s the thing to do on Mcoc forums. Realistically , no one is going to use her that wasn’t using her before, this is for growing players who need help with their rosters.

Jaded

I like her
Careful, if you disagree with the majority in this area you’ll be bullied to see it their way with disagree spams 🤣🤣
People just bandwagon on what someone else says welcome to the internet man. She is clearly better then before , only thing I would say is maybe put her synergies into her kit.

No one has used gully since ROL Wolverine and she was a crappy synergy piece to have around.

Her heal is better because it’s more consistent, so you net more overall. I’m not sure why people go straight to the negatives. People didn’t even know you could stack her stuff, then when they realize , they say her play style is too heavy dependent. Every mutant has this play style.

She can do what she does better than before. Not to mention her soul mechanic is way better.

Lately it just seems that people want to grab their pitchforks because it’s the thing to do on Mcoc forums. Realistically , no one is going to use her that wasn’t using her before, this is for growing players who need help with their rosters.

I agree with you full heartedly.

Texas_11

I like her
Careful, if you disagree with the majority in this area you’ll be bullied to see it their way with disagree spams 🤣🤣
People just bandwagon on what someone else says welcome to the internet man. She is clearly better then before , only thing I would say is maybe put her synergies into her kit.

No one has used gully since ROL Wolverine and she was a crappy synergy piece to have around.

Her heal is better because it’s more consistent, so you net more overall. I’m not sure why people go straight to the negatives. People didn’t even know you could stack her stuff, then when they realize , they say her play style is too heavy dependent. Every mutant has this play style.

She can do what she does better than before. Not to mention her soul mechanic is way better.

Lately it just seems that people want to grab their pitchforks because it’s the thing to do on Mcoc forums. Realistically , no one is going to use her that wasn’t using her before, this is for growing players who need help with their rosters.

I agree with you full heartedly.

I also like to follow this up with saying a uncollected buddy of mine who is in his way to TB loves that she is now a candidate for him. At his level, healing is so important. He is not on forums to track anything really didn’t know she was buffed until Kabam sent out the email.

All I’m saying is the forums is such a small place on Mcoc compared to how many people play the game.

Camby01

Community votes for guillotine instead of antman. Those are upset with buff, I personally have no stake in this what so ever lmao. She wasn’t used before, she won’t be used now. No skin off my back but perhaps next time there is a vote people will think differently on who to vote for.

Enjoy the fight to “fix” guillotine lmao.
That is a very narrow minded view. Who is to say this is not an indicator for things to come.
Narrow minded? There are very few overhaul buffs that haven’t made the champion a lot better. This is just an example of what happens when people don’t anticipate getting what they don’t like. It was narrow minded to vote guilly initially, me not fighting for her to be “fixed” isn’t narrow mind. That’s me drawing a line in the sand and separating those that made the mistake to those that didn’t. Everyone knew guillotine had more usages then antman, everyone knew she wasn’t useless. Narrow minded voting caused this situation.

False. Maybe that is your opinion, but it isnt mine. Guilly needed some changes to become more consistent, and Kabam has consistently added to existing abilities to make them better, not butchered it completely. So yes, you are narrow minded. You wanted Antman to win, and it didnt happen. Get over it.

False? Lmao I’m not the one making this personal. Idc who won, I didn’t even vote lmao. Neither would make much of a difference on my roster. The only opinion I’m giving is she didn’t need an overhaul, sure buff her moderately increasing some numbers is basically all she needed. Antman could have used an entire overhaul tho. It’s not even close to being narrow minded, sorry people you made a mistake and refuse to live with it now.
The people saying that voting Ant-Man would have generated a better result either have a time machine, Cerebro, or just stating nonsense. The idea that Guilly's update ended up poorly because she already possessed more utility than Ant-Man is straight up false. Guilly's update ended up poorly because the developers had a very specific idea of where to take the champ, and that idea was faulty. The exact same thing could happen to Ant-Man or any other champion.

It could in fact have been far worse with Ant-Man in one respect: the devs decided to focus on bleed damage with Guillotine instead of widening offensive utility. They could have decided to focus on Glancing with Ant-Man and turn him into a defensive monster. They don't deliberately try to make defensive monsters, but they are fully capable of accidentally making them (cf: Bishop).

Meanwhile, the idea that Guillotine could have just been given a tweak instead of an overhaul misunderstands what the distinction is between tweaks and overhauls. Guillotine's soul mechanics were broken in modern terms given how they were acquired and decayed. Changing Guillotine's soul mechanics immediately makes Guillotine's update into an overhaul, because fundamental changes to mechanics demand the overhaul process. Any change to Guillotine that did not address soul mechanics in long fights would make Guillotine basically worthless in most modern higher tier content, which is a complete waste of time and resources to burn on a champion.

I dont agree with you often, but I agree with you in part now. It's not the champ chosen by the community, it's the process that's the problem. I disagree with guilly needing an overhaul to begin with, overhaul happened with g99, guilly was a kabam champ, antman, not. Antman is for all practical purposes, useless.

In a dissent, are there other champs that are useless now in long fights/high tier that have already been overhauled? Answer is absolutely yes. Are you going to take wolverine into colossus? Not unless you want an insanely long fight at high tier.

Everything is relative. Why didn't 1* colossus get the same buff that 2-6 did? According to the company line, didnt want to screw up the new players, it would be too confusing.

Nothing to do with the variant that came out just after.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Sungj

I’m not sure if people disagree with me or not, but if it helps at least one person get through content it was a successful buff.

No one has used gully since ROL Wolverine and she was a crappy synergy piece to have around.

Her heal is better because it’s more consistent, so you net more overall. I’m not sure why people go straight to the negatives. People didn’t even know you could stack her stuff, then when they realize , they say her play style is too heavy dependent. Every mutant has this play style.

She can do what she does better than before. Not to mention her soul mechanic is way better.

Lately it just seems that people want to grab their pitchforks because it’s the thing to do on Mcoc forums. Realistically , no one is going to use her that wasn’t using her before, this is for growing players who need help with their rosters.

You're literally just wrong. People did the math and her heal is objectively nerfed significantly. It's not even debatable at 4 soul charges which is her old base amount she healed more than she does now, at 10 souls plus her old healing was literally 3-4 times more potent. And those pics you posted the old guillotine could take down ROL fights in 49 hits at rank 2 and in under 50 seconds. Her damage has objectively been nerfed.

She is worse at doing what she used to do. She has less damage, procs less bleeds and has a more impractical play style.

Wow also her soul mechanic is worse. Literally every part of your post is incorrect. Yes they're "permanent" so on paper it seems better but you consume so many of them per special and it's even harder to build back up then before. You get long luls of being stuck on 1-6 charges and getting no damage because of it.

Growing players would've benefitted more from pre-nerf guillotine lmao, she literally doesn't do anything better post buff and her only use pre buff was that she had insane damage potential with 2 synergy partners

Texas_11

I’m not sure if people disagree with me or not, but if it helps at least one person get through content it was a successful buff.

No one has used gully since ROL Wolverine and she was a crappy synergy piece to have around.

Her heal is better because it’s more consistent, so you net more overall. I’m not sure why people go straight to the negatives. People didn’t even know you could stack her stuff, then when they realize , they say her play style is too heavy dependent. Every mutant has this play style.

She can do what she does better than before. Not to mention her soul mechanic is way better.

Lately it just seems that people want to grab their pitchforks because it’s the thing to do on Mcoc forums. Realistically , no one is going to use her that wasn’t using her before, this is for growing players who need help with their rosters.

You're literally just wrong. People did the math and her heal is objectively nerfed significantly. It's not even debatable at 4 soul charges which is her old base amount she healed more than she does now, at 10 souls plus her old healing was literally 3-4 times more potent. And those pics you posted the old guillotine could take down ROL fights in 49 hits at rank 2 and in under 50 seconds. Her damage has objectively been nerfed.

She is worse at doing what she used to do. She has less damage, procs less bleeds and has a more impractical play style.

Wow also her soul mechanic is worse. Literally every part of your post is incorrect. Yes they're "permanent" so on paper it seems better but you consume so many of them per special and it's even harder to build back up then before. You get long luls of being stuck on 1-6 charges and getting no damage because of it.

Growing players would've benefitted more from pre-nerf guillotine lmao, she literally doesn't do anything better post buff and her only use pre buff was that she had insane damage potential with 2 synergy partners

I’m sorry. I just don’t agree with this and my testing has been extensive. If you think she is worse then you are entitled to your own opinion. Some argue hood was better before as well and they are also entitled to their opinion.

1.) From my testing the heal was inconsistent, and is Improved.

2.) This was a R1 Gully.

3.) I go with SP2 play style and have no problem keeping up the souls at 10-15.

4.) Not sure how you can tell me every part of my post is incorrect when you simply just disagree. I did testing and didn’t find this gully being worse than the new gully.

Texas_11

I like her
Careful, if you disagree with the majority in this area you’ll be bullied to see it their way with disagree spams 🤣🤣
I’m not sure if people disagree with me or not, but if it helps at least one person get through content it was a successful buff.

No one has used gully since ROL Wolverine and she was a crappy synergy piece to have around.

Her heal is better because it’s more consistent, so you net more overall. I’m not sure why people go straight to the negatives. People didn’t even know you could stack her stuff, then when they realize , they say her play style is too heavy dependent. Every mutant has this play style.

She can do what she does better than before. Not to mention her soul mechanic is way better.

Lately it just seems that people want to grab their pitchforks because it’s the thing to do on Mcoc forums. Realistically , no one is going to use her that wasn’t using her before, this is for growing players who need help with their rosters.

it didnt do much as a buff. she needed more utility and better damage. but they removed many things from her. also if this for growing players, why the hell she is available as 6 star?? i doubt that growing players need 6 star version of this. want to know what the removed from her?? fine i tell you

her big healing was removed. instead they added a 2% healing that dont do much at all.
sp3 is useless now. they removed one of her best piece of ability she had.
lower chance for making opponent bleed.
adding pain link which very useless since it doesnt reduce the incoming debuffs.
also what about her utility? i dont see it anywhere at all. all she has is heal reversal which she had before. when people vote for something, they expect the best not the worst. some people like it? fine. but many dont. and this means kabam need to do something about it!

That’s the thing , who is many? The forums? Some YouTubers? The real question is , is this champ going to be more valued in the early stages of the game. The answer for me is yes.

Take a champ like Diablo, will he be super good early game , probably not because he needs suicides to be great and a decent sig.

If we went off the what the forums and YouTubers said , antman would be the champ we are discussing at the moment. The truth is it’s a large amount of people who are actually benefiting from this buff.

Texas_11

I have said already , I do believe they should add her synergies into her kit. But overall I’m happy with the buff. Will I R3 her ? No. I’m happy I took my Hood up over her, as I had a little FOMO.

Wicket329

A note for both sides of this argument:

Everybody keeps using RoL Winter Soldier as a benchmark for new Guilly. What she can do now vs. what she could do before. I believe this is a fundamentally misguided approach.

I think the real question as to whether this is a successful buff is whether or not she can take *any* fights she couldn’t have before her overhaul. That is what I, personally, measure a successful buff by. Is there any content where she previously struggled that she now soars?

I have my feelings on the answers, but I do not have the champion at a high level to test with. If anybody else does and has an area in mind where New Guilly excels where Old Guilly did not, I’d be very interested in your feedback.

Texas_11

A note for both sides of this argument:

Everybody keeps using RoL Winter Soldier as a benchmark for new Guilly. What she can do now vs. what she could do before. I believe this is a fundamentally misguided approach.

I think the real question as to whether this is a successful buff is whether or not she can take *any* fights she couldn’t have before her overhaul. That is what I, personally, measure a successful buff by. Is there any content where she previously struggled that she now soars?

I have my feelings on the answers, but I do not have the champion at a high level to test with. If anybody else does and has an area in mind where New Guilly excels where Old Guilly did not, I’d be very interested in your feedback.

Wolvie ROL in one shot.
X-23 one shot
OML one shot

Wicket329

A note for both sides of this argument:

Everybody keeps using RoL Winter Soldier as a benchmark for new Guilly. What she can do now vs. what she could do before. I believe this is a fundamentally misguided approach.

I think the real question as to whether this is a successful buff is whether or not she can take *any* fights she couldn’t have before her overhaul. That is what I, personally, measure a successful buff by. Is there any content where she previously struggled that she now soars?

I have my feelings on the answers, but I do not have the champion at a high level to test with. If anybody else does and has an area in mind where New Guilly excels where Old Guilly did not, I’d be very interested in your feedback.
Wolvie ROL in one shot.
X-23 one shot
OML one shot

She could always do the Wolverine RoL one shot. That’s how I cleared RoL in the first place way back when. Did it with a three star, as I recall. No relevant synergies active because the only synergies at the time were like “would you like a smidge of armor? Perhaps some crit chance?”

I never tried X-23 or OML (I assume you’re talking about the Labyrinth ones), so I don’t know if this was feasible in the past. It sounds like we’re focusing on her healing reversal utility which is absolutely better than it was. I just don’t think that alone is sufficient to call a buff a success.

mmmbanyas

Have her at a natural sig 60 6* rank 1. Was hoping to r3 her after this buff and now I want nothing to do with her. Absolute fail on Kabam’s part.

FadedDragon999

Spent about half an hour to 45 minutes and came up with a buff Idea of my own. There are certain aspects that are really cool. The life siphon and the bleed curse seem like really cool ideas. However, that does not mean I like this buff as a whole. So, I took it into my own hands and made a buff that fuses both the new and previous kits, along with a little bit of my own twist.
~

Guillotine buff Idea:

All stats are based off a 5/65 5*

Signature Ability: (Sig 1 - 200)

- 10% chance to heal (5 - 30)% of damage dealt for every 3 active Soul charges. The healing minimum remains (5 - 30)% regardless of current Soul count. This healing only activates on an attack that makes contact and is capped at (1000 - 4000) health.
{I gave her some of her old healing, but reduced it a little. At 12 charges Pre-buff, she would heal 165% of damage dealt. In this, she would heal 150%. AT this, if a 2000 damage hit is dealt, she would heal 3000. I capped the healing so its not super overpowered}

Abilities:

Passive:
- +250 base Armor rating
- Whenever the opponent is immune to a bleed debuff, a rupture debuff is applied instead, having the same potency and duration
{One thing I just noticed, they took away her armor. Not the worst thing, but why? Also, I have heard a lot of people say the rupture thing should be a part of her base kit, not her Sig. And I agree.}

Life Siphon:
- Heal 4% of all damage dealt to the opponent in any way
{Like I said, I loved this. However, in a previous post, I explained how doubling this healing would make her healing better. This isn't super overpowered, nor is it as low as before. If you want to know what I mean, it is in my most recent post on my profile, however, it is pretty much irrelevant to what I am putting here}

Soul Harvest:
- Guillotine starts the fight with 1 Soul charge. For every Soul charge active, gain the following effects:
- +200 Attack rating
- +75 Crit damage rating
- Whenever a Degeneration, Bleed, or Rupture debuff is applied to the opponent, a Soul charge is gained
- Whenever either champion loses 5% of their max HP or a buff is nullified, a Soul charge is gained as well
- Guillotine can keep up to 10 souls permanently. Upon reaching 10 souls however, she becomes unshackled and souls gained past 10 last for only 7 seconds. The max Souls Guillotine can hold in total is 15.
{The attack boost rating gained in the current stage only provides 90% of max attack at max Souls. I decided to boost it. Additionally, I gave her the extra crit damage she had before with each soul with a slight boost}

Unshackled:
- Basic attacks have a 35% chance to nullify a buff
- All hits of a special attack have a 100% chance to nullify a buff and are unblockable
- Whenever a Bleed or Rupture debuff would be applied, a Degeneration debuff with same duration and 50% increased potency is applied instead
{There is so much potential with Unshackled! Having it only make Specials unblockable and giving a slight ability to Sp1 is such a waste. I mean, what do you hear when someone says unshackled? That they have been released}

Heavy Attacks:
- Each hit consumes 1 Soul charge to place a non-stacking Bleed Curse debuff lasting 10 seconds. While active, each hit of a special attack has a 100% chance to apply a bleed debuff as if it were a critical hit
{Bleed curse is pretty cool idea. I don't see the point of stacking it though. It's not like you place two debuff in one hit if you have 2 applied.}

Critical Attacks:
- 40% chance to apply a bleed debuff dealing 450 damage per second for 7 seconds. This chance is increased by 5% for every buff on the opponent.
{Boosted the chance by 5% and boosted the damage}

Special Attacks:

Special One:
- Final hit applies a Pain Link debuff lasting 10 seconds. While active, 60% of any non-physical damage dealt to Guillotine is reflected back at the opponent
- If unshackled, the Pain Link debuff is applied as soon as the special is activated, along with a +5 second duration. However, after the special ends, 10 souls are consumed
{Pain Link. Interesting concept, but doesn't help a whole lot. Not as much as Mysterio or Magik. Did I make her a bit more annoying on defense? Probably.}

Special Two:
- Final hit applies a 10 second Spectre debuff, reducing healing by 200%
- If Unshackled, consume 5 Soul charges to inflict a Soul Siphon debuff instead. The Soul Siphon lasts 12 seconds and has two effects
- Prevents healing. Addiotionally, 10% of what the opponent would heal instead heals Guillotine
- Every time the opponent is struck, 5% of Guillotine's modified attack per active Soul charge is dealt as direct burst damage
{Now, the stealing of 10% HP healing would seem OP, but its not extremely potent. Say the opponent heals 2000 health. You only heal 200. Also, I added the burst damage cause it seemed like there needed to be a bit of oomph to her hits}

Special Three:
- Deals 1% of the opponent's max health for every active Soul charge. This consumes all active Soul charges
- If Unshackled, apply a Degeneration debuff dealing 1500 damage over 3 seconds. Duration is increased by 1.5 seconds second for each Soul consumed by the special
{Gave her back most of her previous special, but nerfed the damage. Since you can gain SOul charges more easily, max damage per Sp3 is 15% of max health +Degen damage.}

Now before you say all the healing is OP, it's really not. 4% of damage dealt isn't super high. I mean, say you apply 5 Bleeds, each dealing 450 damage per second. That's 2250 per sec. Pretty cool, but 4% of that is 90 HP per second. Not the best, but not the worst either. Also, with her Sig ability. Say she deals 4000 damage in a single hit. At 10 charges (Sig 200), she would heal 90% of that (3600). Now, that is great, but nowhere near as high as she did before. And her healing will be capped at 4k Health. At 10 charges (Sig 200 pre-buff), she would heal just under 110% of that. At 12, it would be 165%. 16 would be 220%. So while she now has a lot more healing, it's not as OP as before. The main thing I changed was her Utility. She has better debuffs, some decent burst damage after SP2 (I did the math. At 15 charges, you would be dealing 4111 damage per hit), and overall much better usage in all fights}
~
I'm not trying to hound at Kabam. I know they are just people. I know its hard work. But when I can come up with a better buff in just 30-45 minutes, you know that what they did was pretty bad. And this doesn't have to look like what she could be. I just want Guillotine to have better than what she has. I love Guillotine, and I wanna make sure she sees the glory that others made by Kabam have (Ie Aegon or Guillotine 2099). I mean, she's pretty much their mascot for crying out loud.

unknown

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DNA3000

That’s the thing , who is many? The forums? Some YouTubers? The real question is , is this champ going to be more valued in the early stages of the game. The answer for me is yes.

That's probably true, for a sufficiently early part of the game: the part where reasonably good damage is better than almost anything else. The part of the game where Captain Marvel (classic) is a decent pull.

But for me, that's not the real question. The real question was: what was the intent of the champion update? If the explicit intent was to make a champ that would be good in the face-punching part of the early game, then well done, but also, why do it? Had they explicitly *stated* that that was going to be the intent going in, I doubt it anyone would have voted for her, or for that matter, voted for anyone. They would have told Kabam to go back and reread the Hood update discussions, both to see what the player consensus was on what players wanted from updates, and also what they themselves stated their position was on champion updates. Guillotine satisfies neither.

And if you're going to try to make a champion that is better for the early game, then while you're adding damage you shouldn't be taking away sustainable healing, and whether healing was improved or nerfed is not up to a vote: both calculations and careful testing can easily prove that you're going to get far less heal most of the time. Sure, statistically speaking you can point to corner cases where the healing is higher, but those will be in the minority. When it comes to sustainable healing, averages over long paths matter, because that's where sustainable healing is valued. Adding damage but removing sustainable healing is one step forward and one step backward for intermediate players. And one step forward and one step backward is a failure if the intent is to actually *significantly* improve the champion.

Player subjective perceptions matter in the context of whether or not Guillotine's update was a successful means for player engagement, which all the voting was a part of. And here, no one can argue that the update is perceived positively by a majority of players. What the split is exactly is debatable, but there is no overwhelmingly positive support for it. Player perception is not working in the update's favor when it comes to judging the update in player engagement terms. But subjective perception matters not at all when it comes to judging the update itself. I don't care how many people think the heal is stronger. Prove it is stronger with actual calculations or actual controlled regimented testing that is sufficient to demonstrate that, and I'll listen. But anecdotes outside of that mean nothing to me.

Life Siphon is objectively worse than OG healing, Pain Link is objectively ridiculous, her signature ability is now a weak concession with limited sig level benefit, and she's the first mystic champion created or updated since 2015 that has no buff countering tools which is the signature mystic class capability. Even America Chavez at least has buff potency reduction, which would have been the worst example of mystic class design before Guillotine's update.

If you're just trying to update a champion to make it useful in a narrow set of circumstances or in the very early game, then you can argue that G2.0 does that. But you could equally argue that reverting G2.0 to G1.0 also does that: you'll find just as many people saying G1.0 is better for the early game than G2.0. If the best people can say is they know a guy know knows a guy who likes G2.0, I know a guy who knows a guy who liked G1.0. An update that just trades these guys is a waste of developer resources.

EgretM4

Old guillotine abilities plus
First ten souls don’t expire same as new guillotine
Sp1 gets a fate seal doesn’t cost souls
Sp2 and sp3 same as old
Bump damage a bit, add percent chance for critical bleed into her base kit.
Old guillotine regen but raise chance to proc. Keep old ability to increase regen based on souls.
I think that would’ve been a solid buff. Gain some utility and damage. Keep the things we liked about her and bump it up a bit to make people want to rank her and it wouldn’t make her overpowered

Stellar

The overall rework is fine

The regen happen more often than before, even if it is less than before
The bleed are more powerful and happen more often.
the Bleed can become degen if duped.
The SP2 still reverse regen
The SP3 is...weird ! it does nearly no damage

pseudosane

I like her
Careful, if you disagree with the majority in this area you’ll be bullied to see it their way with disagree spams 🤣🤣
I’m not sure if people disagree with me or not, but if it helps at least one person get through content it was a successful buff.

No one has used gully since ROL Wolverine and she was a crappy synergy piece to have around.

Her heal is better because it’s more consistent, so you net more overall. I’m not sure why people go straight to the negatives. People didn’t even know you could stack her stuff, then when they realize , they say her play style is too heavy dependent. Every mutant has this play style.

She can do what she does better than before. Not to mention her soul mechanic is way better.

Lately it just seems that people want to grab their pitchforks because it’s the thing to do on Mcoc forums. Realistically , no one is going to use her that wasn’t using her before, this is for growing players who need help with their rosters.

Using WS as a punching bag does nothing to prove your point.

I have a sig200 r5 guilly who I use as a synergy piece for when i bring out g99/MS. SHe used to be fun to play with her great healing. Throw in gamora and angela and i have a solid team.
I used her for healing, nothing more.
What guilly was missing was further utility, nothing else. Her base kit was outdated. She was relegated to a synergy piece.

I saw in a previous post you said ROL wolvie, LoL x23, and Abyss OMl one shots. Tell me, are you going to remove a spot in your team for that specifically? No. ROL wolvie can be done with plenty of 3* now, and with despair and plenty of champs able to do it, guilly isnt a top option. The exact same goes for LoL/RoL. She is still outdated. She still has nothing added to her kit that wasnt there before. They just took off portions of her abilities by giving a trickle heal which is more consistent than her amazing heal before which was a little more RnG dependant. DO the math, in a standard matchup, old guilly generates more bleeds than the new one. Only at 4+ buffs does the new guilly generate more.
your screenshot shows her doing damage with the purgy synergy, the old one can do that and faster.

I have been a constant guilly user for years, and this change (not going to call it a buff at all), did absolutely nothing for her.