What exactly is causing the t5b imbalance for end gamers? Let's take a look...

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Comments

  • ZAHIDMALIK1588ZAHIDMALIK1588 Posts: 515

    I feel your pain. I constantly rank up 5 stars to r4 just to use the over flow of Alpha 2. It is such a waste but it is better then it expiring. It is a struggle the higher you get. Management of resources are a big deal. I stopped opening map crystals just to slow the over flow of Alpha 2.

    Have you ever considered, donating them to the new players who only have 4 and 5*s and constantly struggling for t1a, t2a and even t4b.? If not, may be you should.
  • AdevatiAdevati Posts: 220 ★★★

    Adevati said:

    Adevati said:

    Adevati said:

    Pretty much every game I’ve ever played has resources that are more rare than others leading to overflow of the “common” resource.

    MMORPGs where you let items rot because you don’t need them ring a bell?

    Making careful decisions on who to rank up should always be a part of this game (or any game). Games where you drown in resources and don’t have to work very hard for certain resources are empty and boring.

    That said, what is your solution? Increase T5B? So now we can all rank up at a much faster rate removing the satisfaction of working towards a specific rank up or the decision factor? Or do we lower T2A artificially and keep rank ups at the same rate?

    How is this “problem” being brought up with anything other than the intention of, “I want to rank up more champs faster.”?

    I'd respond, but I think it's been asked and answered quite well by others already. May we ask your current roster and content progression level? Just for a better picture of your own personal experience in the game and how it may affect your view point?
    My account is largely irrelevant to this discussion. My opinions stem from playing a lot of games over the years. And in every single game I’ve played that has some economy system of resources, common resources are wasted or ignored due to an abundance while farming for the more rare resource that everyone desires.

    My opinions are also derived from the sentiment of this thread that the solution to this manufactured “problem” is being rewarded more of the uncommon resource leading to faster rank ups/progression. People in this thread literally want Kabam to speed up progression because they can’t stomach expiring resources.

    A mismatch in availability of resources is 100% by design and happens throughout all progression levels.

    I’m not going to outline my progression. But I do have 20 T2A and 5 T5B in my overflow. And in no way does that make me feel entitled to more T5B.
    Thanks for answering. Your progression in mcoc is relevant. As it lets us know exactly where you are in the process that happens over years. And what you may or may not have been through yet regarding the difference phases of progression and the different bottle necks experienced along the way. Those of us commenting on this topic generally speaking have played this game for 4-7 years now. Daily for some of us. So we are well versed in the economy of this game over the years. We've been through each and every bottle neck this game has had. It varies for each progression level. And then sometimes repeats itself for a second or third time. Which is mainly why I was asking. And, it's not a case of us just needing to be educated on the subject of resource economy.

    I think where we're missing each other is we're not simply talking about mismatched amounts of resources. We're talking about "old resources" being intentionally recycled into sought after resources, sometimes actual years later. We're not into that type of design and are expressing this. However, I do appreciate the information about having t5b in overflow. That does let us know that you are in a completely different situation. You are likely in need of characters. Rather than having a lot of characters and having a lot of actual high tier rank up materials (t5cc is a total non-issue) only to be limited by a lower tier resource that was introduced 4 years ago. Which is the situation we're not into.
    Nice, you not only predicted my progression but also how long I’ve been playing simply by my overflow.

    And now I’m supposedly not capable of understanding the issue yet I’d get more rank up materials all the same with the proposals listed here and speeding up my progression.

    All because of FOMO due to expiring materials.
    Basically, your viewpoint is that, hey, let them expire. That is it. You have rehashed it a bunch already.
    The reason that is not a great option and is different from other games is that we are encouraged NOT to waste any resources. Over my 6 years playing, i havent wasted a single resource in MCOC.And yes, I play other games as well. MCOC has a system to make use of all the resources you get. But recently, the t2a situation is out of sync with other materials, causing this issue. For endgamers, even the t1a influx can be managed by r2ing 5* to eat up 5 t1a easily, but t2a requires t4cc which is very instrumental in 6* progression, all the way to r3.
    Why do you believe Kabam doesn’t want us to waste resources? We all waste a lot of resources. Or we sell them for crumbs from overflow.

    R2’ing a 5-star just to prevent t1a from expiring is pointless. In no way does that improve an “end game” account. In fact, it’s the sunk cost fallacy. I’m losing this resource, I don’t want to lose it, so I’m spending more just not to lose it.

    I don’t see an issue with allowing t2a to be sold from overflow. We’d get peanuts, but psychologically, it’ll make people feel better. I don’t see an issue with them lowering t2a rewards keeping everything the same. Feels a bit redundant, but no big issue.

    The issue I have is people demanding more t5b (and now t4cc from your post) solely based on not wanting t2a to expire. This results in faster rank ups and will require much more thought into balancing. Yet, I really don’t see posts saying “we can’t rank up champs fast enough;” correct me if I just missed them. So the solution here creates an outcome to a problem that doesn’t exist.
  • Monk1Monk1 Posts: 704 ★★★
    That’s is the most logical solution.. allow selling of t2a.

    We have now reached a point in the game where it is no longer ‘a high value item’, so should be able to sell it.

    This should 100% be an option in the sigil.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★

    Please define who are “you, the end game players”’. Not that I include myself in this group, but I have no issue balancing my T5BC and my T2A. Gold has been more of an issue for me. But I would like to know…

    Sure, no problem. I personally use the term "end game" for folks who have 100% all or very nearly all content in game. Including Abyss, Act 6 and all Variants (including V1). Now, this definitely will change slightly over time as we go on. Because, for instance.. V1 is now officially recommended to skip now days. As the reward to effort ratio has not aged well. Same with Act 6, but not quite as drastically. Act 6 still requires way more effort than Act 7 to complete, but at least still has been nerfed and still contains some sought after resources. All is to say, that actually having 100% everything will eventually become a thing of the past. It will be more like, having completed everything that makes sense to complete eventually. But, I guess veteran players can wear 100% V1 as a bragging right just to indicate how long they have playing. 🙂 (meaning they have been playing for long enough to have 100% it when it *did* make sense) Those things will just become more of an indication of how old school someone is.

    Another measure of "end game" would be which level of alliance content you do.

    Beyond that, you can look at roster. For simplicity, could just measure by number of r3. Though I'd say this measurement, while accurate for deciding where someone is in the hunt for characters and materials can be affected by spending. So it's not quite as pure of a measurement as content completed or alliance content. But I still think it's a valid form of measurement. Whether grinded (via content mentioned above), paid for or more commonly, a combination of both.

    As for the gold issue. Please understand I mean zero offense. One of my oldest friends in this game struggles with gold. But he and I both know why. He's very busy. Has 3 kids, a demanding job, does chores around the house and does a lot of social activities. He doesn't have gold because he's just not that active in solo content.

    The key to having gold is just play the game actively. And it used to be to save gold crystals for the bonuses. But that's no longer a thing moving forward. In all honesty, if you're struggling with gold it is probably one of two reasons. More activity is needed (everything in game gives *some* gold). Arena is the most often mentioned, but it's actually not 100% necessary. All quest in game, incursions, etc. give out gold. The second is if a player is still in one of the early stages of progression. The solution for the former is more activity, the solution for the latter is patience.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★
    edited January 6
    Adevati said:

    Adevati said:

    Adevati said:

    Pretty much every game I’ve ever played has resources that are more rare than others leading to overflow of the “common” resource.

    MMORPGs where you let items rot because you don’t need them ring a bell?

    Making careful decisions on who to rank up should always be a part of this game (or any game). Games where you drown in resources and don’t have to work very hard for certain resources are empty and boring.

    That said, what is your solution? Increase T5B? So now we can all rank up at a much faster rate removing the satisfaction of working towards a specific rank up or the decision factor? Or do we lower T2A artificially and keep rank ups at the same rate?

    How is this “problem” being brought up with anything other than the intention of, “I want to rank up more champs faster.”?

    I'd respond, but I think it's been asked and answered quite well by others already. May we ask your current roster and content progression level? Just for a better picture of your own personal experience in the game and how it may affect your view point?
    My account is largely irrelevant to this discussion. My opinions stem from playing a lot of games over the years. And in every single game I’ve played that has some economy system of resources, common resources are wasted or ignored due to an abundance while farming for the more rare resource that everyone desires.

    My opinions are also derived from the sentiment of this thread that the solution to this manufactured “problem” is being rewarded more of the uncommon resource leading to faster rank ups/progression. People in this thread literally want Kabam to speed up progression because they can’t stomach expiring resources.

    A mismatch in availability of resources is 100% by design and happens throughout all progression levels.

    I’m not going to outline my progression. But I do have 20 T2A and 5 T5B in my overflow. And in no way does that make me feel entitled to more T5B.
    Thanks for answering. Your progression in mcoc is relevant. As it lets us know exactly where you are in the process that happens over years. And what you may or may not have been through yet regarding the difference phases of progression and the different bottle necks experienced along the way. Those of us commenting on this topic generally speaking have played this game for 4-7 years now. Daily for some of us. So we are well versed in the economy of this game over the years. We've been through each and every bottle neck this game has had. It varies for each progression level. And then sometimes repeats itself for a second or third time. Which is mainly why I was asking. And, it's not a case of us just needing to be educated on the subject of resource economy.

    I think where we're missing each other is we're not simply talking about mismatched amounts of resources. We're talking about "old resources" being intentionally recycled into sought after resources, sometimes actual years later. We're not into that type of design and are expressing this. However, I do appreciate the information about having t5b in overflow. That does let us know that you are in a completely different situation. You are likely in need of characters. Rather than having a lot of characters and having a lot of actual high tier rank up materials (t5cc is a total non-issue) only to be limited by a lower tier resource that was introduced 4 years ago. Which is the situation we're not into.
    Nice, you not only predicted my progression but also how long I’ve been playing simply by my overflow.

    And now I’m supposedly not capable of understanding the issue yet I’d get more rank up materials all the same with the proposals listed here and speeding up my progression.

    All because of FOMO due to expiring materials.
    Not exactly, no. I can't determine your actual progression. And no, I really can't recall anywhere in my comment that states your progression is a means to validate your opinion. I just know that personal experience does have some kind of effect on one's view point. That's true for almost any topic, mcoc or otherwise. As a resident of North America, it's possible for me to come up with intelligent theory about an issue happening in Asia. Though, at some point someone will ask me, "Do you live here in Asia though?". Doesn't mean my theories can't be considered, but it does realistically have an affect on the discussion. It doesn't mean that your theories are automatically dismissed, though, at all.

    And just to state again, since it did not come across yet. I'm not asking for more of something, necessarily. I'm asking for a logical ratio for one's level. The game economy folks can decide what are the actual appropriate amounts (how many rank ups are allowed in a certain amount of time). I just want to see a more logical ratio.

    Of course, I do understand the intentional creation of bottle necks. It's what makes the game a game. But it's all done to maintain our interest. So we keep playing and/or spending. What I'm reporting is that if a ratio becomes *too* drastically skewed it can have a negative impact on our interest to push on and keep playing. I can tell you first hand it has impacted my desire to play AQ. The Glory Store being the main culprit. The current value of t5b is actually outrageous imo. I'm not saying simply that the I'm losing interest because I'm annoyed. I'm also losing interest because there is currently nothing in that store I really need or wish to purchase. And Glory is one of the main rewards for the game mode. Surely you see the issue?

    Also, a lot of us have lost interest in obtaining t5c. The motivation is gone.We can only use a fraction of the amount we collect. Due to a *lower* tier resource. What I'm saying is in an effort to stretch out the value of an old (to us) resource, they've managed to devalue a newer one in the process.
  • KingInBlackKingInBlack Posts: 208 ★★

    If it wasn’t for this “imbalance” I wouldn’t be able to seriously participate in the level up event because all my 5s are r3 or higher. Believe it or not people rank 5s with their t2a, so I welcome all the t2a I can earn and will even buy it in the glory store at times.

    The t5b is “rarer” because that’s the rate Kabam wants you to rank up the highest ranks of champions with incentive to spend on offers built in to the equation; It’s part of the free to play model.

    If it wasn’t for this “imbalance” I wouldn’t be able to seriously participate in the level up event because all my 5s are r3 or higher. Believe it or not people rank 5s with their t2a, so I welcome all the t2a I can earn and will even buy it in the glory store at times.

    The t5b is “rarer” because that’s the rate Kabam wants you to rank up the highest ranks of champions with incentive to spend on offers built in to the equation; It’s part of the free to play model.

    Players who are involved in competitive game modes can't always spare the t4b and c that both 5 and 6 star champs require. It basically will stunt the progression of your 6 roster if your 5 stars are using up their resources.
    It takes 15 (of the same class, obviously) t5c to take a 6 from 1-3. That can add up real quick given the random nature of the crystals.

    Surely we at least agree about the t5b value in the TB Glory store though yeah? It's tragically outdated imo.
    Well I’m involved in all competitive game modes and can always spare the t4 mats and I wouldn’t say my 6 star roster has been stunted, quite the opposite in fact, the use of those materials improves my ability to acquire 6 stars. Also my resource management allows me to have the materials on hand to rank up any 6 star at will as long as I am not stacking the same class of 6*s to rank up.

    And nope; I will never agree to hyperbole but it will be updated in time; and players will decry it as falling short; f2p model and what not. You’ll drive yourself nuts if you continue thinking Kabam is doing anything but carefully metering out end stage resources in a deliberate fashion.
    Not gonna lie, reading that last sentence immediately after gifting ended was pretty funny.
  • LiquidkoldLiquidkold Posts: 170 ★★

    I feel your pain. I constantly rank up 5 stars to r4 just to use the over flow of Alpha 2. It is such a waste but it is better then it expiring. It is a struggle the higher you get. Management of resources are a big deal. I stopped opening map crystals just to slow the over flow of Alpha 2.

    Have you ever considered, donating them to the new players who only have 4 and 5*s and constantly struggling for t1a, t2a and even t4b.? If not, may be you should.
    I honestly would have no problems donating to my alliance members if that was a thing. It would be awesome to share resources. Kabam will never go for that though.
  • pseudosanepseudosane Posts: 2,391 ★★★★★

    If it wasn’t for this “imbalance” I wouldn’t be able to seriously participate in the level up event because all my 5s are r3 or higher. Believe it or not people rank 5s with their t2a, so I welcome all the t2a I can earn and will even buy it in the glory store at times.

    The t5b is “rarer” because that’s the rate Kabam wants you to rank up the highest ranks of champions with incentive to spend on offers built in to the equation; It’s part of the free to play model.

    If it wasn’t for this “imbalance” I wouldn’t be able to seriously participate in the level up event because all my 5s are r3 or higher. Believe it or not people rank 5s with their t2a, so I welcome all the t2a I can earn and will even buy it in the glory store at times.

    The t5b is “rarer” because that’s the rate Kabam wants you to rank up the highest ranks of champions with incentive to spend on offers built in to the equation; It’s part of the free to play model.

    Players who are involved in competitive game modes can't always spare the t4b and c that both 5 and 6 star champs require. It basically will stunt the progression of your 6 roster if your 5 stars are using up their resources.
    It takes 15 (of the same class, obviously) t5c to take a 6 from 1-3. That can add up real quick given the random nature of the crystals.

    Surely we at least agree about the t5b value in the TB Glory store though yeah? It's tragically outdated imo.
    Well I’m involved in all competitive game modes and can always spare the t4 mats and I wouldn’t say my 6 star roster has been stunted, quite the opposite in fact, the use of those materials improves my ability to acquire 6 stars. Also my resource management allows me to have the materials on hand to rank up any 6 star at will as long as I am not stacking the same class of 6*s to rank up.

    And nope; I will never agree to hyperbole but it will be updated in time; and players will decry it as falling short; f2p model and what not. You’ll drive yourself nuts if you continue thinking Kabam is doing anything but carefully metering out end stage resources in a deliberate fashion.
    Not gonna lie, reading that last sentence immediately after gifting ended was pretty funny.
    My thoughts exactly. ANy discussion regarding "balance" and "deliberate metering" of resources went out the window with gifting.
  • AddyosAddyos Posts: 1,075 ★★★★

    I think this problem is deliberately put in the game by design. Kabam WANTS to stifle your 6* progression by forcing you to spend on ranking tour 5*. Why? Come think of it, it's very smart of them to do so because:

    - Being in a constant state of frustration because "if only I had a couple of t5b more...!" Makes you want to keep grinding on the game just to precisely get those missing resources. More time you feel you NEED to play the game to accomplish something on it is a win for Kabam.

    - 16 t2a in overflow, no t5b but ... surprisingly Kabam put up an "offer" of 100 bucks for 4 t4b. And you go " Yes' I MUST buy this so that way I can have my next R3 and not let 8 t2a go to waste!!!! Already 8 will go to waste (or into R4 5* , more on that later)...so you buy the offer and that's another win for Kabam.

    - Because you dont want 8 t2a to go to waste then you go ahead and r4 two 5* that you would otherwise never even consider ranking. This is also a major win for Kabam in two fronts:
    a) It forces you to spend gold and iso8 that you would otherwise prefer using on a 6*, but alas, since you can't then you use it on a 5* , stifling your 6* progression cuz whenever you do get the cats to use on a 6*, them chances are that you might also need to grind arena for gold. Making you spend time on the game grinding arena= Win for Kabam. Making it not that easy for anyone just to R2 and R3 any champ as they please = also a win for Kabam because you'll feel you either have to PLAY the game (or better still, SPEND REAL MONEY on it) to progress the champs you want.

    b) Maybe you r4 5* Night Trasher just to use up expiring T2a, not because you particularly want to. But then theres some CAV EQ ( or quest node or whatever) on which it so happens that for whatever reason NT is the single best counter in the game. So you go ahead and bring NT "just for kicks" on the Cav EQ or whatever and wow! You realize what an underrated champion he is. At the same time you realize by happenstance how his CGR and Mr. Fantastic Synergy makes CGR (which also happens to be your best/favorite/only r3 ) even more OP than he already is. So whatcha gonna go do next? Well of course, hunt for the 6* NT!! Because you are at a point in a game where you realize that R5'ing 5* is no longer a smart long term investment. And you realized all this because you happened to have ranked r4 that NT just to avoid 4 t2a going down the drain. Making you aspire/ hunt for a 6* champ that would otherwise never have crossed your radar? Yet ANOTHER win for Kabam.

    So you see, your t5b shortage IS ON PURPOSE, it’s in the game by design. And I am not even writing this post to trash/blame Kabam for it. I actually admire SOME of the really crafty schemes they come up with in order to keep us hooked with the game...SOME of them are quite smart. I have to emphasize the SOME of them because Kabam does also have a track record of coming up with schemes that backfire disastrously and make us rather NOT want to play the game. Add that to the persistent bugs (specially parry bug) and I will even go ahead and say that perhaps currently there are more things in the game that makes us NOT want to play the game, unbalanced with the ones that keep us hooked.... which is dangerous for any game. However, imho, t5b shortage is not one of the things that I have a gripe with, I actually think it is a pretty smart way to stifle progression, and believe it it or not, doing so is good for the game in the long term. Making 6* progression too easy would be unhealthy for the game because peeps would have less reasons to play/grind/chase things in the game, and that's foreboding for a game coffin.

    TL;DR

    The t5b shortage is in by design to make you actually feel there are things to chase/aspire for in the game. In this sense, MCoC is not unlike a casino. And no, I do not mean it in the Prof. Hoff sense ... that guy keeps complaining that crystals are casino-like and I go " Yes, it says so in the description of the item, so your point is????? (Smh)". When I say that MCoC is like a casino is because by design, in addition to whatever addictive potential a roulette or slot machine may have, Casinos are constructed to make such potential to easily arise. For example, have you ever wondered why casinos don't have clocks, actual windows, and lighting is carefully controlled to make it look that it's always the same time of the day even if you have been there 24h? It's because messing with the usual ways for perceiving the passing of time is a way to keep you inside in the casino. Same goes with giving you free drinks, etc... they have a LONG list of crafty schemes to keep you there. Whatever they can do to keep you IN the casino is a win for them because the more you are in it, the bigger the chance for the addictive potential of a slot machine, etc. to exert its effect on you . So whatever crafty way Kabam can come up to keep you playing the game is a win for them ... and if you are enjoying the game, then its good for you too because it helps the longevity of the game.

    So, in conclusion, the problem is not the t5b shortage or any of the many other crafty and successful mechanisms MCOC has to keep you hooked. I personally believe that it's about time people stop complaining and understand that if they think they are "playing" a game by Kabam , then they are 100% wrong. It's the other way around, you are not playing a game , instead .... KABAM IS PLAYING YOU. It really is that simple.

    So the key point is to sit down and think: " Am I having more fun than frustration when Kabam plays me with their game?" If the answer is "yes" then keep playing and/or spending on it and having fun. If the answer is "no" then that's a sure sign that the time has come to delete the game from your phone and search for greener pastures.

    Particularly, the last 6 months of the game have made me slowly, but surely, tilt my answer to the above question closer to a "no". It's not a complete "no" yet but who knows in 3-6 months how I'll feel. I've ben playing since the game's release, and in two separate occasions I've quit once for 9 months and 13 months the latest. The start of the pandemic is what made me play again after my last quit. So my advice is that if you are feeling more frustrated than fun by the way Kabam has been playing you (while making you think that you are playing their game) then take a time off. It'll all be alright regardless whether you come back later or not.


    Uh your TL;DR needs a TL;DR lol. Some good points otherwise.
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Posts: 332 ★★★
    It's clear that the ratios are still set toward 5* progression, which is a 5:1 T2A to T5B ratio.

    6*s have ratios of 7:3 at r1 and 2:1 at r2, which drastically slows your ranking progression.

    I currently have 52 T2A and 6 T5B right now, which just sucks. I have to r4 5* champs and waste t4b and t4c or let t2a expire.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,819 ★★★★★

    I think this problem is deliberately put in the game by design. Kabam WANTS to stifle your 6* progression by forcing you to spend on ranking tour 5*. Why? Come think of it, it's very smart of them to do so because:

    - Being in a constant state of frustration because "if only I had a couple of t5b more...!" Makes you want to keep grinding on the game just to precisely get those missing resources. More time you feel you NEED to play the game to accomplish something on it is a win for Kabam.

    - 16 t2a in overflow, no t5b but ... surprisingly Kabam put up an "offer" of 100 bucks for 4 t4b. And you go " Yes' I MUST buy this so that way I can have my next R3 and not let 8 t2a go to waste!!!! Already 8 will go to waste (or into R4 5* , more on that later)...so you buy the offer and that's another win for Kabam.

    - Because you dont want 8 t2a to go to waste then you go ahead and r4 two 5* that you would otherwise never even consider ranking. This is also a major win for Kabam in two fronts:
    a) It forces you to spend gold and iso8 that you would otherwise prefer using on a 6*, but alas, since you can't then you use it on a 5* , stifling your 6* progression cuz whenever you do get the cats to use on a 6*, them chances are that you might also need to grind arena for gold. Making you spend time on the game grinding arena= Win for Kabam. Making it not that easy for anyone just to R2 and R3 any champ as they please = also a win for Kabam because you'll feel you either have to PLAY the game (or better still, SPEND REAL MONEY on it) to progress the champs you want.

    b) Maybe you r4 5* Night Trasher just to use up expiring T2a, not because you particularly want to. But then theres some CAV EQ ( or quest node or whatever) on which it so happens that for whatever reason NT is the single best counter in the game. So you go ahead and bring NT "just for kicks" on the Cav EQ or whatever and wow! You realize what an underrated champion he is. At the same time you realize by happenstance how his CGR and Mr. Fantastic Synergy makes CGR (which also happens to be your best/favorite/only r3 ) even more OP than he already is. So whatcha gonna go do next? Well of course, hunt for the 6* NT!! Because you are at a point in a game where you realize that R5'ing 5* is no longer a smart long term investment. And you realized all this because you happened to have ranked r4 that NT just to avoid 4 t2a going down the drain. Making you aspire/ hunt for a 6* champ that would otherwise never have crossed your radar? Yet ANOTHER win for Kabam.

    So you see, your t5b shortage IS ON PURPOSE, it’s in the game by design. And I am not even writing this post to trash/blame Kabam for it. I actually admire SOME of the really crafty schemes they come up with in order to keep us hooked with the game...SOME of them are quite smart. I have to emphasize the SOME of them because Kabam does also have a track record of coming up with schemes that backfire disastrously and make us rather NOT want to play the game. Add that to the persistent bugs (specially parry bug) and I will even go ahead and say that perhaps currently there are more things in the game that makes us NOT want to play the game, unbalanced with the ones that keep us hooked.... which is dangerous for any game. However, imho, t5b shortage is not one of the things that I have a gripe with, I actually think it is a pretty smart way to stifle progression, and believe it it or not, doing so is good for the game in the long term. Making 6* progression too easy would be unhealthy for the game because peeps would have less reasons to play/grind/chase things in the game, and that's foreboding for a game coffin.

    TL;DR

    The t5b shortage is in by design to make you actually feel there are things to chase/aspire for in the game. In this sense, MCoC is not unlike a casino. And no, I do not mean it in the Prof. Hoff sense ... that guy keeps complaining that crystals are casino-like and I go " Yes, it says so in the description of the item, so your point is????? (Smh)". When I say that MCoC is like a casino is because by design, in addition to whatever addictive potential a roulette or slot machine may have, Casinos are constructed to make such potential to easily arise. For example, have you ever wondered why casinos don't have clocks, actual windows, and lighting is carefully controlled to make it look that it's always the same time of the day even if you have been there 24h? It's because messing with the usual ways for perceiving the passing of time is a way to keep you inside in the casino. Same goes with giving you free drinks, etc... they have a LONG list of crafty schemes to keep you there. Whatever they can do to keep you IN the casino is a win for them because the more you are in it, the bigger the chance for the addictive potential of a slot machine, etc. to exert its effect on you . So whatever crafty way Kabam can come up to keep you playing the game is a win for them ... and if you are enjoying the game, then its good for you too because it helps the longevity of the game.

    So, in conclusion, the problem is not the t5b shortage or any of the many other crafty and successful mechanisms MCOC has to keep you hooked. I personally believe that it's about time people stop complaining and understand that if they think they are "playing" a game by Kabam , then they are 100% wrong. It's the other way around, you are not playing a game , instead .... KABAM IS PLAYING YOU. It really is that simple.

    So the key point is to sit down and think: " Am I having more fun than frustration when Kabam plays me with their game?" If the answer is "yes" then keep playing and/or spending on it and having fun. If the answer is "no" then that's a sure sign that the time has come to delete the game from your phone and search for greener pastures.

    Particularly, the last 6 months of the game have made me slowly, but surely, tilt my answer to the above question closer to a "no". It's not a complete "no" yet but who knows in 3-6 months how I'll feel. I've ben playing since the game's release, and in two separate occasions I've quit once for 9 months and 13 months the latest. The start of the pandemic is what made me play again after my last quit. So my advice is that if you are feeling more frustrated than fun by the way Kabam has been playing you (while making you think that you are playing their game) then take a time off. It'll all be alright regardless whether you come back later or not.


    Is it intentional? Yes. Although it's not the reason you think. There are intentional limitations on Ranking Champs, and that allows all growth in the game to pace at a level that allows other levels of Players to progress as well. Stop and consider, if people had everything they needed at the top, no one would ever progress underneath them. I'm not talking about the usual same Allies and Players always on top. I'm talking overall progress. People wouldn't grow because the growth of the top would be accelerated infinitely. The majority of games I can think of slow progress the higher you go. That's by design. It's really not related to making people spend at all, although you will probably find the majority at the top do spend some amount.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★
    edited January 6
    I get there are ups and downs. If I were to really try to get the root of my frustrations with the game, I think it boils down to the failure to update things in an even remotely timely manner. The Glory Store, as you guys can tell is way up there for me on this list. The fact that there's nothing I feel even slightly happy about buying in there has a significant affect on my morale and desire to play AQ. The whole point of the store is to have some customization in your rewards. (Which can play into DNA and Coat's theory of different players wishing to rank different ratios of champs) Which is great, on paper. But if there's nothing you actually feel happy or good about spending your Glory on... it feels near useless.

    I think it's also a cummulative effect. Many of us old school players have been feeling like we're always waiting for an overdue update for...years I'd say. It took "forever" for a Cav difficulty in EQ to be released. But, here's the really frustrating part. By the time it finally came out, it was so overdue, that it didn't take long at all for it to feel outdated. Like.. extremely quickly. So after waiting for so long, turns out... we never actually left the state of feeling like we are waiting for the game to "catch up" I think it really does weigh heavily on our morale. We desperately need another tier of EQ and SQ to keep veteran players around.

    Why is it ok for veteran players to only feel mentally engaged, excited or rewarded a few times a year in special end game events? "Oh you guys are fine.. you have your special events to enjoy. Just stay out of the discussion about permanent or recurring content and enjoy your special events..." Don't get me wrong, these events were awesome! And we saw how positively the veteran community responded to them. But.. the question is why can't we also have recurring content (monthly, for example) that actually engages us mentally? That we feel somewhat excited about. Like the rest of the progression levels have. Really though, why is this such an outrageous concept? That we have something tuned for us that recurring.

    Another progression title is sorely needed as well. They are too many players packed into TB. Just as there are too many players packed into Cav EQ/Legendary SQ. Making it essentially impossible to tune both the difficulty and rewards accurately for the huge scope of players found within these brackets.

    Don't get me started on crystals and solo/alliance events. Whether it's those that are progression based, but never had a TB bracket added (think objective crystals), or even a Cav bracket added ( think gold crystals). Or it's crystals or events that have been in the game since the beginning and have never been updated or had a progression bracket applied to them when they undoubtedly should have. There's a huge list. I won't bother typing it out. Most of us know what they are.

    I'm really hoping 2022 brings us into better place. Maybe a new progression title and recurring content difficulty level will go a long way to making things feel better in the game. And not just for veterans. More brackets usually means better, more accurate tuning for all brackets. And, I can tell you right now, that a meaningful update the Glory Store will have a significant impact on my own morale. Which may actually tie directly into the release of a new progression bracket. Here's hoping.
  • KennadoKennado Posts: 955 ★★★
    edited January 6

    I feel your pain. I constantly rank up 5 stars to r4 just to use the over flow of Alpha 2. It is such a waste but it is better then it expiring. It is a struggle the higher you get. Management of resources are a big deal. I stopped opening map crystals just to slow the over flow of Alpha 2.

    Same here. Been saying for around six months now that there should be a progression locked t5b arena for us. I shouldn't have to be forced to rank 5 stars because there's a ton of t2a and no t5b.
  • Jcobra25Jcobra25 Posts: 212 ★★

    Most of us "end gamers" have often wondered how this t5b shortage is occurring. And, why is a resource introduced 4 years ago in Act 5 giving us issues in 2022? I finally decided to take a closer look at the rewards I earn in recurring content such as AQ. Specifically the ratio of t2a to t5b. Spoiler alert: It's not good. Fact is, when we look at the ratios required to rank up champions, the rewards are really skewed towards 5 star progression. And in some cases are even below the ratio required for 5 star progression... even for Map 8! Where almost all of the participants are exclusively working on 6 star progression.

    A "reading" video, sure I'll waste 10 minutes of my time on it!
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 15,119 Guardian
    Monk1 said:

    I have to disagree with some of this and my main issue comes back to a lack of available t5b across all content - this is compared to both t2a and even 5tcc now.

    There is just no way to acquire more from any live regular content (which I have done all of).

    I don't disagree. I simply pointed out that this issue might be intentional. Many players are used to thinking about challenges as things that must always have a solution. When it comes to content, that's generally true. But when it comes to resource management, that's not always true. Sometimes when it comes to resource management in games there's no solution to the problem of "I have too much X or too little Y to use all my X." Sometimes the game is explicitly designed so that some players will have excesses of some things that cannot be resolved, and the situation requires them to optimize that situation as best they can.

    I'm not the resource designer for MCOC, so I cannot say whether that is the case or not. But I know this is a common design principle in games like this, so it is entirely possible. If this is true, pointing out that there is an unresolvable imbalance won't have the persuasive effect people think it should, if they think it should be obvious so such unresolvable imbalance should ever exist. That's not an axiom of game design.
  • Scopeotoe987Scopeotoe987 Posts: 1,513 ★★★★
    The need for t5b has doubled with r3s, the more t5cc also means the more people will push for r3s. The amount of T5B right now feels wayyyyyyy more aimed at upgrading 5*s rather than upgrading 6*s. Considering just how many you need to r3/r4 a 6* vs how much you need to r5 a 5*. Hopefully, t5b will be like the t2a drought. It might solve itself as time passes with reward buffs and future rewards in act content, side quest content, and other modes. At least it might.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Posts: 1,985 ★★★★
    Jcobra25 said:

    Most of us "end gamers" have often wondered how this t5b shortage is occurring. And, why is a resource introduced 4 years ago in Act 5 giving us issues in 2022? I finally decided to take a closer look at the rewards I earn in recurring content such as AQ. Specifically the ratio of t2a to t5b. Spoiler alert: It's not good. Fact is, when we look at the ratios required to rank up champions, the rewards are really skewed towards 5 star progression. And in some cases are even below the ratio required for 5 star progression... even for Map 8! Where almost all of the participants are exclusively working on 6 star progression.

    A "reading" video, sure I'll waste 10 minutes of my time on it!
    But, why take the time comment about it then?
  • mgj0630mgj0630 Posts: 611 ★★★
    I got curious and counted up my t2a and t5b.

    I currently have 76 t2a and 26 t5b. Roughly a 3:1 ratio.

    On the surface, that may seem very imbalanced, but when you consider that taking a 6* straight from r1 to r3 requires 15 t2a and 7 t5b, roughly a 2:1 ratio, it's not that skewed. It may seem that way to someone who's roster is at a point where they're exclusively ranking up 6* champs, but when you consider 5* champs, which require 10 t2a and 2 t5b to get to r5, a 5:1 ratio, it's not really that bad. In fact, those still working on their 5* roster, which is completely reasonable for a new thronebreaker, could make a reasonable argument for it being skewed the other way (too many t5b, and not enough t2a), cause using my numbers for example, I have enough t5b for 13 5* r5 right now, but that would require me having 130 t2a (54 short).

    I'd argue that the only way to get the balance a little bit tighter would be another progression title, with its own rewards, that are more skewed towards t5b. That said, the immediate argument there would be that this next, hypothetical title, should be skewed more towards 6* r4 rewards.

    Ultimately, for me personally, I'd love to see a bit more t5b, cause my focus now is on 6*, but looking at it from the entire thronebreaker perspective, which has to include those who just got the title, it's probably actually a pretty well balanced ratio.
  • Ken1378Ken1378 Posts: 253 ★★
    mgj0630 said:

    I got curious and counted up my t2a and t5b.

    I currently have 76 t2a and 26 t5b. Roughly a 3:1 ratio.

    On the surface, that may seem very imbalanced, but when you consider that taking a 6* straight from r1 to r3 requires 15 t2a and 7 t5b, roughly a 2:1 ratio, it's not that skewed….

    …Ultimately, for me personally, I'd love to see a bit more t5b, cause my focus now is on 6*, but looking at it from the entire thronebreaker perspective, which has to include those who just got the title, it's probably actually a pretty well balanced ratio.

    No, big disagree. You realize the price of T5B is literally 10x higher than T2A in the Glory store, right? That’s the 10:1 5-star ratio you mentioned. Which means the pricing seems pretty outdated for anybody that’s been ranking up 6-stars at all, let alone somebody that has at least one R3 (aka the minimum Thronebreaker requirement).

    And the ratio of T2A to T5B in the AQ Rank rewards from Rank 31-150 is just under 4:1. How many new Thronebreakers are in Top 150 AQ Alliances?

    Act 7.3, gets a little closer to 2:1, but still not quite (it’s 15 T2A to 6 T5B).

    And btw, if you start looking at T5B to T5CC ratios, it supports a T5B shortage even more:
    Glory Store Price - 1:5
    AQ Rank Rewards (31-150) - 3.5:1
    Act 7.3 - 4:1

    And for reference, you need 7 T5B and 1 T5CC to take a 6-star from R1 to R3. So they are giving out A LOT more T5CC than 1 for every 7 T5B.
  • mgj0630mgj0630 Posts: 611 ★★★
    Ken1378 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    I got curious and counted up my t2a and t5b.

    I currently have 76 t2a and 26 t5b. Roughly a 3:1 ratio.

    On the surface, that may seem very imbalanced, but when you consider that taking a 6* straight from r1 to r3 requires 15 t2a and 7 t5b, roughly a 2:1 ratio, it's not that skewed….

    …Ultimately, for me personally, I'd love to see a bit more t5b, cause my focus now is on 6*, but looking at it from the entire thronebreaker perspective, which has to include those who just got the title, it's probably actually a pretty well balanced ratio.

    No, big disagree. You realize the price of T5B is literally 10x higher than T2A in the Glory store, right? That’s the 10:1 5-star ratio you mentioned. Which means the pricing seems pretty outdated for anybody that’s been ranking up 6-stars at all, let alone somebody that has at least one R3 (aka the minimum Thronebreaker requirement).

    And the ratio of T2A to T5B in the AQ Rank rewards from Rank 31-150 is just under 4:1. How many new Thronebreakers are in Top 150 AQ Alliances?

    Act 7.3, gets a little closer to 2:1, but still not quite (it’s 15 T2A to 6 T5B).

    And btw, if you start looking at T5B to T5CC ratios, it supports a T5B shortage even more:
    Glory Store Price - 1:5
    AQ Rank Rewards (31-150) - 3.5:1
    Act 7.3 - 4:1

    And for reference, you need 7 T5B and 1 T5CC to take a 6-star from R1 to R3. So they are giving out A LOT more T5CC than 1 for every 7 T5B.
    I fully agree with the glory cost of t5b vs t2a. Admittedly, I hadn't even considered that when I made my post, and it's a solid point you made.

    As for the t5cc comment you made, I was intentionally omitting them, as they aren't relevant to the 5* rank ups I was using for the argument of t5b to t2a ratio.

    Again, I'd love to see more t5b, and I'm really looking forward to the glory store refresh (praying they don't disappoint), but I was just playing devil's advocate to say that in my opinion, looking at the overall scope of the thronebreaker from new summoners to seasoned, the balance isn't terrible.
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