Hopefully every champion will become usable with this balancing. Thats what it sounds like might happen to me. Hopefully it won't be same old great vs bad champions to use.
I don't mind the buff program , I think a game like this needs nerfs and balances. If this did not happen , the game would die super quick. The largest issue is they sell the champs. They need to re cycle the schedule and sell crystals after the cycle is gone
So how would they collect the data they need if no one has access to the champions?
I don't mind the buff program , I think a game like this needs nerfs and balances. If this did not happen , the game would die super quick. The largest issue is they sell the champs. They need to re cycle the schedule and sell crystals after the cycle is gone
So how would they collect the data they need if no one has access to the champions?
Maybe if they break down what data they're looking for and explain why they plan on taking so long with it, it wouldn't sound so stupid and ill-conceived. It couldn't hurt to tell us why they couldn't make data gathering part of the run-up to a champ's release via side-quest where they temporarily give us the champs. Rather than ask for endless amounts of hassle and annoyance, why can't they shift selling the champ and sell the champs from February content in March or April?
I don't mind the buff program , I think a game like this needs nerfs and balances. If this did not happen , the game would die super quick. The largest issue is they sell the champs. They need to re cycle the schedule and sell crystals after the cycle is gone
So how would they collect the data they need if no one has access to the champions?
Maybe if they break down what data they're looking for and explain why they plan on taking so long with it, it wouldn't sound so stupid and ill-conceived. It couldn't hurt to tell us why they couldn't make data gathering part of the run-up to a champ's release via side-quest where they temporarily give us the champs. Rather than ask for endless amounts of hassle and annoyance, why can't they shift selling the champ and sell the champs from February content in March or April?
I don't know where you're getting hassle and annoyance from. It's not like you're going to be filling out forms every time you play a new champ.
I agree they could probably be more detailed on the type of data they're trying to collect but I'm sure it's pretty standard. They probably want to see- How often they're used. Game modes they're used in. More attacker or defender in AW. Performance for AW/AQ. Sustainability in questing. Some sort of time to kill type metric.
Man I respect their ideas. They should try new things in the game. But I need them to guarantee that buffs will keep rolling each month. I think that's the only issue here. ”Guaranteed Continuation of buff program”
I don't mind the buff program , I think a game like this needs nerfs and balances. If this did not happen , the game would die super quick. The largest issue is they sell the champs. They need to re cycle the schedule and sell crystals after the cycle is gone
So how would they collect the data they need if no one has access to the champions?
Maybe if they break down what data they're looking for and explain why they plan on taking so long with it, it wouldn't sound so stupid and ill-conceived. It couldn't hurt to tell us why they couldn't make data gathering part of the run-up to a champ's release via side-quest where they temporarily give us the champs. Rather than ask for endless amounts of hassle and annoyance, why can't they shift selling the champ and sell the champs from February content in March or April?
I don't know where you're getting hassle and annoyance from. It's not like you're going to be filling out forms every time you play a new champ.
I agree they could probably be more detailed on the type of data they're trying to collect but I'm sure it's pretty standard. They probably want to see- How often they're used. Game modes they're used in. More attacker or defender in AW. Performance for AW/AQ. Sustainability in questing. Some sort of time to kill type metric.
The hassle and annoyance of this is on their end. It's not a hassle for me, although I do find some of the decisions they make annoying the same way it's annoying to see someone you like screw a good thing up over and over again, make a poorly considered public statement that just makes things worse, and then bungle the service recovery when they scrap the plan for prosperity to really focus on debuting things their customers have shown they hate. They're trying to cram this into a tight window of their own making as they're selling the champs the same month they're making their in-game debut and we're not making them do that. They could make the data-gathering SQ fun and throw us some swag to do it. This isn't a 1vs1 competitive game like Street Fighter or a massive multiplayer PvP game. They only need to consider 1 side as they know exactly what the other side can and will do. This game is the same in every single mode, with simple controls.
1) Likely to be taking up resources from the buff program. I don't think it's a stretch in saying champions are one of the if not the most anticipated addition every month for many players. So many champions have been this last one year and a bit and its great to see Diablo and Kingpin and Ultron being widely used to absolutely shred content. At the same time there are still so many champions, many of them fan-favorite characters, who could use some love.
2) Selling crystals and champion acquisition during that 6 month period needs to be changed.
The ONLY THING that gets most players excited are the buffed champs for the month. I used to be an ardent defender of Kabam (on Reddit mostly) but this direction they're taking is really off. Based on the comments here, I really hope Kabam listens to the community. Let me repeat - most of the game's players pee in their pants with excitement over who gets buffed each month and you're taking that away (or not promising anything, to your words)
Really suggest Kabam watch KarateMike's rating system.. it rates each champion (sadly only 2021 champions) base on his/her/its damage, utility and sustainability for game modes, AQ, AW, story mode or side quest.. I don't know how long it took him to get his rating system but you guys could ask him for advice..
YouTube title 'Every 2021 champion - individually RANKED!'
I don't mind the buff program , I think a game like this needs nerfs and balances. If this did not happen , the game would die super quick. The largest issue is they sell the champs. They need to re cycle the schedule and sell crystals after the cycle is gone
So how would they collect the data they need if no one has access to the champions?
There are more ways to collect data then selling crystals: featured crystals, arena, giving everyone TB and up a 4* version or 5* version in arena.
@DNA3000 I am curious from what you have said about the need for a large and wide range of the player base to play these new characters to generate sufficient data to determine the need for adjustments how this is really supposed to happen when they will make the decision after 3 months of the champ being released? I didn't think that many people who weren't huge spenders or arena grinders would actually have new champs at the higher rarities to be useful in more difficult content within 3 months of them entering the game to generate this kind of usage.
I don’t have access to the data but I believe it is reasonable to assume that three groups of players possess a champion more or less immediately after release. First, the whales and the grinders who are disproportionately likely to be higher tier players more likely to rank up and use the champions in higher tier content. My guesstimate is that this is on the order of hundreds of players, something between two hundred and a thousand players. Second, lucky players who grab a few crystals and hit the jackpot and land a high rarity drop. I believe this is in the low thousands of players, maybe a thousand, maybe a couple thousand, and their usage will be distributed more widely across moderate to high content. And then there are the players who get the champion at lower tier from the arena or crystals, 3* or 4*. I suspect this is tens of thousands of players, and these will be skewed towards being used at lower tiers of content (if at all).
Factoring in some ratio of players who get the champ and then actually use it, this is probably enough players to get a meaningful estimate of overall performance.
We wont have many low progress players using champs in high tier content, but such players don’t play such content in general. We will have low skill players using the champs, because skill and luck aren’t correlated. Outside the arena grinders and the blow out whales (who buy enough to increase their odds of getting a champ sky high) new champions should be distributed roughly randomly across all players buying crystals.
More players and longer time collection would continue to refine that estimate, but the longer you measure, the more players who have the champ and the more players get locked into an expectation for the performance of the champ. The data mining window is a compromise between adjusting the champ as fast as possible (ideally when *no one* has the champ, ala before release) and adjusting the champion as accurately as possible (which ideally would be when everyone has the champ and has been playing it long enough to have learned all its tricks to the best of their ability, i.e. going back and adjusting champs after they’ve been around for years).
Worth noting: when they look three months after release, they are going to then go into a two month beta period testing adjustments. During that time, if their three month look was “off” they will still have the opportunity to factor in additional data during the beta. If the five month look is substantially different from the three month look, they have an opportunity to factor that into adjustments being made during the beta. So there is some wiggle room here to try to collect data for as long as possible while factoring in the amount of time it takes to formulate adjustments and test them.
If Kabam looks at a champ that they wanted to be middling at a thing and they are better than they thought, why not just leave it? Sometimes you get a happy accident. If it won't actually break the game as in: this is the only champ people want, this champ can crush everything but Act 6/Abyss level content at low rarities/sig, and moonwalk through that at high rarities/sig. Outside of those scenarios, what difference does it make? It's not like they wouldn't be able to introduce champs and nodes to counter faster and with less aggravation generated as opposed to directly nerfing a champ.
There are different degrees of game-breaking. At least in the sense of the way the term is used. There is game-breaking, in a sense that it will literally break the game, then there is game-breaking in a sense that it will cause such an imbalance that it will create long-term problems and create more work down the line. People sometimes think of it as not literally breaking the game, but there's more to it than that.
I don’t think this new champ balance system is a real pro player move in how it's being implemented.
If I understand the announcement properly, the main focus for champion tuning will be on the NEW champs every month of which the only way we’ll be able to get them are with: 1. Excessive arena grind where only 1000 people out of hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of people will get a 5 or 6* version of the new champ this way (focus on 5 and 6* rarity because they’re the most sought after rarity) 2. Money spent on preview bundles with a very low chance of luck 3. Units/money spent on special Cav/featured crystals with a very low chance of luck. So a main focus will be put on a small percentage of the community that will have the new champs in a 6 months window. So the main focus of this balance system will be to initially affect a small percentage of the overall community
The area of champs balance where the MAJORITY of the community has been excited for and wants to continue (buffing existing under performing champs) will now take a backseat and will only be taken on IF there’s time depending on how excessive the new champ tunning is. As a point of reference there are currently 216 champs in the game and (in my opinion) these are the champs that are pretty useless in the game and making overall champion balance garbage (synergies to buff champs are not taking into consideration, just how the champ themselves perform on their own: 1. Abomination 2. Agent Venom 3. Air Walker 4. America Chavez 5. Ant Man 6. Beast 7. Black Bolt 8. Black Panther CW 9. Black Widow 10. Captain America 11. Captain America WW2 12. Captain Marvel 13. Cyclops 14. Cyclops Red 15. Daredevil 16. Dr Strange 17. Dormamu 18. Drax 19. Electro 20. Elektra 21. Green Goblin 22. Groot 23. Heimdall 24. Hulk 25. Invisible Woman 26. Iron Fist 27. Iron Fist Immortal 28. Iron Man 29. Iron Patriot 30. Jubilee 31. Korg 32. Loki 33. Moon Knight 34. Ms Marvel 35. Kamala Kahn 36. Nightcrawler 37. Nova 38. Phoenix 39. Sentry 40. Rogue 41. Rocket Racoon 42. Rhino 43. Red Skull 44. Spider Man 45. Spider Man Symbiote 46. Super Skrull 47. Superior Iron Man 48. Taskmaster 49. The Champion 50. Thor 51. Thor Jane Foster 52. Ultron Prime 53. Unstoppable Colossu 54. Winter Soldier 55. Yondu
55 out of 216 champs works out to 25% of the Champion pool needing attention and re-balancing to make relevant with the current game Meta, and those 55 champs are existing in likely 50%+ of the community’s roster as a 5 or 6* rarity. If the interest is to serve the player community in offering a better balanced game experience then the MAIN focus should be continuing to improve the large pool of pretty useless champs and not the new champs released every month. I’d say with the new balance team you’ve created, a 75% focus should be on continuing the popular old champs buffing monthly (still 2 per month) and 25% focus on reviewing the new champs. Given my list above, and 2 old champ buffs a month we’re looking at almost 2.5 YEARS to address your underperforming champs which is kind of ridiculous to think THAT wouldn’t be your main focus.
Last, with the new balance system, one important point that was never addressed (that I can find) is Kabam fairly giving us the opportunity to change our mind on rank up decisions we made to these champs in their 6 month Beta/Balance window. If we acquired a new champ through means of time and/or money, AND ranked up those champs with resources acquired again through means of time and/or money, then we should 100% have the opportunity to rank them down and get back those resources (at a min.) if you decide to change them from their initial state. Generic rank down tickets are not the answer for this, but champion specific rank down tickets should 100% be implemented to be fair to the community that are lucky enough to acquire, play and essentially BETA TEST these champs FOR YOU! I personally have way less drive to push for newer champs now knowing any base utility they have that I’m excited for (and possibly fill a niche role in my roster) could change after I’ve invested in them.
I don’t think re-balancing champs is a bad idea, I jus don’t think this is the right way to go about it, and not much about this new system gives the community a lot of confidence in how this will end up going (given the recent track record from Kabam in the last year), and now one of the only reliable things to be excited about (WHO WILL BE THE NEXT 2 CHAMPS TO BE BUFFED THAT I MIGHT ALREADY HAVE??1?!!!!), isn’t a guarantee anymore, so 1 less consistent thing to be excited for every month. Personally, with how poorly the game has performed across the board the last year (game controls, stability, bugs, champ bugs, etc.) the one thing I always looked forward to was the new buffs announcement and then testing.
I hope this all goes well, I’m just honestly not optimistic at all… the last 9 months of playing a pretty broken game and mis-managed community has taken its toll on me.
I realized I left out the champs that are announced to be buffed, so I'll put them back on the list for now
56. Deadpool X Force 57. Storm 58. Psycho Man 59. Gamora
That makes 59/216 champs that desperately need a buff which will go much farther in balancing the game rather than focusing most attention on 2 new champs per month. Catch up on the backlog of 59 underperforming champs..... THEN ramp up this new champ balance system (but in a way that doesn't rip off anyone)
Rating system issues: So you rate the damage 5/5, but where is the dmg coming from? Is it instantly there from the start of the fight? Is it a ramp up champ? Does it depend on buffs or debuffs and are the buffs/debuffs active or passive? Is it energy dmg or physical dmg? Incinerate, shock, bleed, crit? Basically, how do we get that 5/5 dmg and where does it come from? Just stating a champion has dmg means nothing in MCOC if we can’t access the dmg. Having such a general rating system that only states “Damage 5/5” without expanding on the details of that damage will not only make that rating system useless, but also a burden. A burden to the already ever slowing servers that have begun to freeze on a 1 year old phone (Note 20 Ultra 5g). Just a pile of data taking up unnecessary space and creating more lag in the game.
I hope that gives an idea of how complicated a true rating system would have to be for an end user to find it useful, because if I have to continue into Utility, Defense, and other layers of consideration, this post can go on for a while.
However, I can see how such a simple, generalized rating system can be helpful to a developer trying to get an idea of how to shape the champion. For a developer, that’s an outline of the shape a champion can take, the perimeters they can work in as they draw in the finer details of the structure. For an end user, it’s just a blank map that shows land without showing the roads and how to traverse it. That is the gap dividing employee from player, and from a positive perspective, that is the gap I believe you’re trying to close with this attempt at communication.
To make this attempt at “Balancing” future champs successful, I believe we would need to change the structure of how future champs are released into the game.
My thoughts and ideas: 1. You need 6 months to achieve a proper balance on a champion? Then introduce the “work in progress” champion for preview 6 months before its release. We should not have to deal with bugs and adjustments once the champion is fully released and permanently available in the live game.
2. Next question is how to introduce the preview champion without disrupting the game and giving unfair advantages? A) The most obvious way would be to release a public test server. Don’t know why that’s not a thing yet, but my first guess is there’s a financial reason (Kabam being cheap).
B.) Another thought is to make the preview champ available on the live server, in a test store for anyone who wanted to test it out and give feedback, with limited use of course. To avoid the unfair advantage it would have to be blocked out of AW, AQ, and arena. All solo content and incursions are great places for testing, the only possible exception being the EQ and SQ since they do change monthly anyway. Different tiers should be available for different levels of progress starting with 5* for UC players and 6*+5* for higher progress tiers. Rank 1 max level or Rank 2 level 1 should be enough for testing purposes, that way it doesn’t have to get over complicated with additional ranking resources or over power any account that doesn’t already have higher ranking champs. The preview champion should be available for testing for about 3 to 7 days, then be put back into the balance system with the players feedback for consideration. After further development from the initial feedback, the preview champion should be released into the testing store again for another round of feedback. Rinse and repeat till the champion’s quarks are all figured out and ready for full release.
Those are my thoughts for now. The key to the new system being successful is figuring out the issues and making the final adjustments to new champions BEFORE they are released into the game for sale and arenas.
Kabam needs to take a step back releasing new characters until they fix the old ones first I’m fine with that. honestly fine with them releasing less because most people won't even get them for a while anyway. If they took a break on new champions and event quests to just go hard and ALL in on buffing champions until the vast majority of the old champs are good then I think they'll be in a good place to focus on new stuff. Constantly keeping up with 2 new characters EVERY month for 7+ years straight is nuts. I can't be the only one who's burning out of monthly event quests too. The past year, the most hype thing every month was the buffs, and new characters are really starting to falter. It really sucks when a new champ comes out and the consensus is that we should hope for a buff in the future. Too many of the recent characters fall into that category (by recent I really mean from the past year/year and a half). And I don't even mean just the ones that REALLY suck like psycho man, even the ones that are kind of ok but just feel like they don't hold up with champs from past years, like Sauron for example. He seems really cool, and he doesn't suck, but he just doesn't have a place in the game. He's not bad enough to warrant a buff any time soon but he's not good enough to be chosen for doing any content over other champs in the game.
I think — JMO, nobody needs to take my head off — my discomfort is based on the fact that I am totally baffled at what the developers want the players to actually do, and what they want the players to want to feel excited about doing, for the game.
Are we supposed to collect characters and therefore be excited about new releases, spend money on Featureds/Advance bundles or grind for them in Arena, in order to get the newest releases?
Are we supposed to rank up as many characters as possible, or only the best characters, or only the characters that we like playing the best? Which then makes acquiring rank-up materials the thing we’re supposed to plan on spending or grinding for?
Are we supposed to progress in the game via story content and monthly EQs, which means that we need counters to specific nodes and situations, which therefore means we need as many characters as possible on our roster?
Are we supposed to join alliances and spend on items to make sure lanes can be completed and AW defenses can be diverse? Which means acquiring defenders and using rank-up materials on defenders who aren’t fun to actually play is actually really important? Plus the importance of Prestige?
Are we supposed to spend money/units on potions/revives to clear the hardest content, which means that by definition, all characters can only be so good? But that should also mean that all characters should only be so bad, because if clearing the content is most important, then all characters should be able to reasonably do it?
If it’s the last one, I totally get a rating system to this degeee: If the game can only have a modest difference between the best character and the worst character, because all characters are expected to be able to clear the same content, then you have to rebalance. You can’t let that gap get too big.
But at the same time, you also can’t let the bottom of the listing be so far below the bar, it’s frustrating for players to pull them, because they have no use in any of the scenarios above.
That’s the part that truly baffles me — I am honestly baffled at what it is we’re supposed to want to do enough to spend money on, because the game needs to be profitable.
We can’t be expected to do all the things. It’s impossible
Hello summoners old and new, Welcome to a thread for the discussion of the new Balancing Initiative by Kabam. This thread has been made by a veteran F2P player who has played the game for 5+ years and has completed all available content excluding Abyss. I hope this thread will be informative and constructive and I hope Kabam takes into account any feedback given. With all that said I would like to begin the discussion with my thoughts on the subject at hand.
Champion Balancing and the End of the Buff Program Let me be completely honest, in my opinion, this new change is a downgrade and overall a loss for players and the community as a whole. The game has been in a very sensitive state the past year or so and during that period the buff program was arguably the best part of the year. The consistent updates to lackluster champs provided the community with an incentive to play and collect new champs. Champs typically considered bad pulls were made better by the hope of buff and champions that did get buffed were able to be used and enjoyed by a large variety of the player base. Additionally, the buffed champs were often older champs that many had access to or had the ability to get, unlike new champs which aren't available to most of the player base for 1-2 years after release. The buffs kept the game fresh and were a major factor in exciting players to log in every month.
The new balancing initiative seems to be a heavily watered-down version of the current buff program, instead of the consistent 2 monthly buffs we have been given a vague promise of occasional adjustments to some characters, heavily favoring new characters. The major drawback of the balancing initiative is that firstly it seems to be a slower process of buffing champs. The new plan is to only have occasional tweaks to characters and from the description given by Kabam, it seems like it will no longer be large-scale changes to champs like we currently have but instead minor tweaks to balance champs. Secondly, the new balancing initiative is most likely going to affect mainly new champions. This means that the characters being balanced will be characters that the majority of the player base don't have access to and can't access for a long period of time. These are in my opinion the two major drawbacks of the new initiative.
Positives Some positives of Kabam's announcements were that they are including a community figure in their balancing figure and opening the champion testing beta to more players. I think the inclusion of a community figure in the process is a good sign but at the end of the day, it is just one player included in the process which still doesn't give me too much confidence. On the other hand, opening the beta to more players is a great change and I hope that it is implemented in the game regardless of what happens in the contest's future.
Champion Rating System The proposed champions rating system by Kabam is a bad idea. The game is far too complex and I think that the five-star system with the three categories including damage, utility, and ease of use will in no way cover all the nuances and intricacies of the game. Furthermore, no offense to Kabam, but they are the last people I think the community would want champion ratings from. Most of the community doesn't respond well to ratings and tier lists made by people who play the game for a living and I doubt they will listen to Kabam. Looking just at champion spotlight videos on youtube, Kabam always seems to have a worse understanding of champions than the player base. I think the rating system will only confuse new players and ultimately become obsolete as most players decide to ignore it. I just can't see a system like this accurately accounting for all the in-game variables such as synergies, type of damage, sustainability, support, etc. Rather than spend resources on this Kabam should shift its focus elsewhere.
Final thoughts, I think the announcement made by Kabam was tone-deaf. It seems that they are unaware of what the players are responding well to and what the players don't appreciate. The buff program was universally agreed to be a good addition and I can't imagine what reason there would be to change it instead of addressing other issues in-game. Issues such as lackluster new champions, the outdated nature of major game modes such as alliance war, alliance quest, incursions, and arena. It doesn't make sense why these issues seemingly aren't being given priority or thought while something that the player base actually appreciates is being changed so drastically. A complete miss from Kabam.
Overall Thoughts and TLDR The changes proposed by Kabam are tone-deaf and rather than addressing actual in-game issues they are instead taking away an aspect of the game most of the community loves. Kabam should take a step back and reassess what they need to address in the game and understand what players enjoy and what players don't.
Please leave your thoughts below but keep it civil and constructive. Hopefully, this post won't be taken down and we and Kabam can have a discussion about the game.
There is a lot of people setting their hair on fire over this rebalancing plan.
I am going to give it a chance. Then decide whether it works.
Six months after they start this program, each month we'll get: -- two new champs that are starting in the balancing program -- two champs that just finished going thru rebalancing and are being released in their finished form -- one or two updated champs
IMO the rebalancing will lead to weaker new champs on initial release, and then improved champs on final release. It makes little sense for Kabam to initially release a champ that is OP and then to pull back on that champ six months later.
Think of how this would have benefitted the 2021 champs that no one uses: Super Skrull, Jubilee, Purgatory, Chavez, Mangog, Psychoman, Anti-Venom, Kraven.
Disappointed 100%. What's the point now in putting sig stones into my 6* Herc? You guys are going to nurf like there's no tomorrow. Complete BS. Screw trying to get new champs, I hope this blows up in your faces.
This does not affect older Champions, but those coming starting in March.
So your Balancing new champs that are going to be released? Isn't that just part of releasing a new champ anyways? You guys were not looking at this before?? You should be balancing the champs we have. Old champs like you were before. That's what the game needs, not this. Sound like fake news, a reason to not buff terrible champs that we all have.
How does a rating system make the game more fun to actually play?
I am totally serious — how does a rating system make OG Iron Man more fun to select for a quest and actually use?
No one wants a rating system. No one asked for it. This community has been begging for buffs to basically unusable characters for years — I know, because I was here at the beginning — and it seems the one thing that basically every single player actually wants for weak characters is the one thing that becomes so complicated, it’s like trying to win the lottery
Bro really look at this possibility, once a tier rating is set , now gone would be the days of cab quest or content restricted to tags or class advantages u might need specific tier champs to open gates or even be eligible for particular quests
Honestly that sounds terrifying. A quest where only rank 1 damage champs are allow 🤢
That…would be…suboptimal
Miike has already said that's not what the tier or rating system is for. It's strictly for the purpose of balancing and only applies to champs released after March. That means all of the other champs before won't be in that rating system because they won't be a part of the balancing program.
Inaccurate, the rating system will apply to all champions.
The rating system solely exist for the purpose of balancing new champs that are released. Miike already stated in this thread that no champ released before March will be subject to this balancing program. So what would the point be for them to put ratings to older champs if they aren't part of the rebalancing program?
The post states: In the coming months, we are going to be introducing a new Champion Rating system to help better visualize the strengths and weaknesses of any given Champion, giving you all a better understanding of the Champion at a glance.
Coinciding with this new rating system, we are creating a new rebalancing process for that will apply to all new Champions coming to The Contest.
This new balancing cadence means that reworks for older Champions will slow somewhat but will still occur!
As I can understand:
all champions will be part of the Champion Rating system;
only new champions will be rebalanced, starting from March and taking roughly 4 months;
the rebalancing of new champions will slow down the buffs of older champions.
For me, that sounds like a bad idea.
Is this not already part of creating a new champ for release though. If not why was it not? seems silly, they would just release them all willy nilly..
Think of how this would have benefitted the 2021 champs that no one uses: Super Skrull, Jubilee, Purgatory, Chavez, Mangog, Psychoman, Anti-Venom, Kraven.
Agree with everything you said, however don’t turn a blind eye to champs like Kitty Pride and Hercules that might’ve gone down the other way. Just highly cautious about a subjective rating determining if a champion was op.
Don’t want Herc to get nerfed because he is rated 2/5 in utility. If the program was in effect a year ago he probably would have been.
Kabam just listen to Seatin he’s the Messiah of this game the voice for the community he just posted this video this morning in response to this please listen because what your doing is wrong: https://youtu.be/N_EH3roT_As
Kabam your relationship with your community is on thin ice. Whales will stop hoarding because new rebalancing will nerf champs and new and moderate players will take them 6 months before they even see a new champs.
Why do people think every new Champ will be nerfed? Why do people think that monitoring new Champs is a new thing? These are the questions I ponder. Lol.
Why do people think every new Champ will be nerfed? Why do people think that monitoring new Champs is a new thing? These are the questions I ponder. Lol.
Do you support them paying more attention to the 2 new champs a month, and only focusing on old champs buffs IF they have time?
Kabam just listen to Seatin he’s the Messiah of this game the voice for the community he just posted this video this morning in response to this please listen because what your doing is wrong: https://youtu.be/N_EH3roT_As
Kabam your relationship with your community is on thin ice. Whales will stop hoarding because new rebalancing will nerf champs and new and moderate players will take them 6 months before they even see a new champs.
This man gets it..! Not much to add.
Yes, that's all! Just want to add another post to thread here to register another thumbs down for this idea that no one asked for...
Comments
I agree they could probably be more detailed on the type of data they're trying to collect but I'm sure it's pretty standard. They probably want to see-
How often they're used.
Game modes they're used in.
More attacker or defender in AW.
Performance for AW/AQ.
Sustainability in questing.
Some sort of time to kill type metric.
I think that's the only issue here. ”Guaranteed Continuation of buff program”
1) Likely to be taking up resources from the buff program. I don't think it's a stretch in saying champions are one of the if not the most anticipated addition every month for many players. So many champions have been this last one year and a bit and its great to see Diablo and Kingpin and Ultron being widely used to absolutely shred content. At the same time there are still so many champions, many of them fan-favorite characters, who could use some love.
2) Selling crystals and champion acquisition during that 6 month period needs to be changed.
I don't know how long it took him to get his rating system but you guys could ask him for advice..
YouTube title
'Every 2021 champion - individually RANKED!'
Factoring in some ratio of players who get the champ and then actually use it, this is probably enough players to get a meaningful estimate of overall performance.
We wont have many low progress players using champs in high tier content, but such players don’t play such content in general. We will have low skill players using the champs, because skill and luck aren’t correlated. Outside the arena grinders and the blow out whales (who buy enough to increase their odds of getting a champ sky high) new champions should be distributed roughly randomly across all players buying crystals.
More players and longer time collection would continue to refine that estimate, but the longer you measure, the more players who have the champ and the more players get locked into an expectation for the performance of the champ. The data mining window is a compromise between adjusting the champ as fast as possible (ideally when *no one* has the champ, ala before release) and adjusting the champion as accurately as possible (which ideally would be when everyone has the champ and has been playing it long enough to have learned all its tricks to the best of their ability, i.e. going back and adjusting champs after they’ve been around for years).
Worth noting: when they look three months after release, they are going to then go into a two month beta period testing adjustments. During that time, if their three month look was “off” they will still have the opportunity to factor in additional data during the beta. If the five month look is substantially different from the three month look, they have an opportunity to factor that into adjustments being made during the beta. So there is some wiggle room here to try to collect data for as long as possible while factoring in the amount of time it takes to formulate adjustments and test them.
56. Deadpool X Force
57. Storm
58. Psycho Man
59. Gamora
That makes 59/216 champs that desperately need a buff which will go much farther in balancing the game rather than focusing most attention on 2 new champs per month. Catch up on the backlog of 59 underperforming champs..... THEN ramp up this new champ balance system (but in a way that doesn't rip off anyone)
So you rate the damage 5/5, but where is the dmg coming from? Is it instantly there from the start of the fight? Is it a ramp up champ? Does it depend on buffs or debuffs and are the buffs/debuffs active or passive? Is it energy dmg or physical dmg? Incinerate, shock, bleed, crit?
Basically, how do we get that 5/5 dmg and where does it come from? Just stating a champion has dmg means nothing in MCOC if we can’t access the dmg. Having such a general rating system that only states “Damage 5/5” without expanding on the details of that damage will not only make that rating system useless, but also a burden. A burden to the already ever slowing servers that have begun to freeze on a 1 year old phone (Note 20 Ultra 5g). Just a pile of data taking up unnecessary space and creating more lag in the game.
I hope that gives an idea of how complicated a true rating system would have to be for an end user to find it useful, because if I have to continue into Utility, Defense, and other layers of consideration, this post can go on for a while.
However, I can see how such a simple, generalized rating system can be helpful to a developer trying to get an idea of how to shape the champion. For a developer, that’s an outline of the shape a champion can take, the perimeters they can work in as they draw in the finer details of the structure. For an end user, it’s just a blank map that shows land without showing the roads and how to traverse it. That is the gap dividing employee from player, and from a positive perspective, that is the gap I believe you’re trying to close with this attempt at communication.
To make this attempt at “Balancing” future champs successful, I believe we would need to change the structure of how future champs are released into the game.
My thoughts and ideas:
1. You need 6 months to achieve a proper balance on a champion?
Then introduce the “work in progress” champion for preview 6 months before its release. We should not have to deal with bugs and adjustments once the champion is fully released and permanently available in the live game.
2. Next question is how to introduce the preview champion without disrupting the game and giving unfair advantages?
A) The most obvious way would be to release a public test server. Don’t know why that’s not a thing yet, but my first guess is there’s a financial reason (Kabam being cheap).
B.) Another thought is to make the preview champ available on the live server, in a test store for anyone who wanted to test it out and give feedback, with limited use of course. To avoid the unfair advantage it would have to be blocked out of AW, AQ, and arena. All solo content and incursions are great places for testing, the only possible exception being the EQ and SQ since they do change monthly anyway. Different tiers should be available for different levels of progress starting with 5* for UC players and 6*+5* for higher progress tiers. Rank 1 max level or Rank 2 level 1 should be enough for testing purposes, that way it doesn’t have to get over complicated with additional ranking resources or over power any account that doesn’t already have higher ranking champs. The preview champion should be available for testing for about 3 to 7 days, then be put back into the balance system with the players feedback for consideration. After further development from the initial feedback, the preview champion should be released into the testing store again for another round of feedback. Rinse and repeat till the champion’s quarks are all figured out and ready for full release.
Those are my thoughts for now. The key to the new system being successful is figuring out the issues and making the final adjustments to new champions BEFORE they are released into the game for sale and arenas.
people won't even get them for a while anyway. If they took
a break on new champions and event quests to just go
hard and ALL in on buffing champions until the vast
majority of the old champs are good then I think they'll be
in a good place to focus on new stuff. Constantly keeping
up with 2 new characters EVERY month for 7+ years
straight is nuts. I can't be the only one who's burning out of
monthly event quests too. The past year, the most hype
thing every month was the buffs, and new characters are
really starting to falter. It really sucks when a new champ
comes out and the consensus is that we should hope for a
buff in the future. Too many of the recent characters fall
into that category (by recent I really mean from the past
year/year and a half). And I don't even mean just the ones
that REALLY suck like psycho man, even the ones that are
kind of ok but just feel like they don't hold up with champs
from past years, like Sauron for example. He seems really
cool, and he doesn't suck, but he just doesn't have a place
in the game. He's not bad enough to warrant a buff any
time soon but he's not good enough to be chosen for
doing any content over other champs in the game.
Are we supposed to collect characters and therefore be excited about new releases, spend money on Featureds/Advance bundles or grind for them in Arena, in order to get the newest releases?
Are we supposed to rank up as many characters as possible, or only the best characters, or only the characters that we like playing the best? Which then makes acquiring rank-up materials the thing we’re supposed to plan on spending or grinding for?
Are we supposed to progress in the game via story content and monthly EQs, which means that we need counters to specific nodes and situations, which therefore means we need as many characters as possible on our roster?
Are we supposed to join alliances and spend on items to make sure lanes can be completed and AW defenses can be diverse? Which means acquiring defenders and using rank-up materials on defenders who aren’t fun to actually play is actually really important? Plus the importance of Prestige?
Are we supposed to spend money/units on potions/revives to clear the hardest content, which means that by definition, all characters can only be so good? But that should also mean that all characters should only be so bad, because if clearing the content is most important, then all characters should be able to reasonably do it?
If it’s the last one, I totally get a rating system to this degeee: If the game can only have a modest difference between the best character and the worst character, because all characters are expected to be able to clear the same content, then you have to rebalance. You can’t let that gap get too big.
But at the same time, you also can’t let the bottom of the listing be so far below the bar, it’s frustrating for players to pull them, because they have no use in any of the scenarios above.
That’s the part that truly baffles me — I am honestly baffled at what it is we’re supposed to want to do enough to spend money on, because the game needs to be profitable.
We can’t be expected to do all the things. It’s impossible
Welcome to a thread for the discussion of the new Balancing Initiative by Kabam. This thread has been made by a veteran F2P player who has played the game for 5+ years and has completed all available content excluding Abyss. I hope this thread will be informative and constructive and I hope Kabam takes into account any feedback given. With all that said I would like to begin the discussion with my thoughts on the subject at hand.
Champion Balancing and the End of the Buff Program
Let me be completely honest, in my opinion, this new change is a downgrade and overall a loss for players and the community as a whole. The game has been in a very sensitive state the past year or so and during that period the buff program was arguably the best part of the year. The consistent updates to lackluster champs provided the community with an incentive to play and collect new champs. Champs typically considered bad pulls were made better by the hope of buff and champions that did get buffed were able to be used and enjoyed by a large variety of the player base. Additionally, the buffed champs were often older champs that many had access to or had the ability to get, unlike new champs which aren't available to most of the player base for 1-2 years after release. The buffs kept the game fresh and were a major factor in exciting players to log in every month.
The new balancing initiative seems to be a heavily watered-down version of the current buff program, instead of the consistent 2 monthly buffs we have been given a vague promise of occasional adjustments to some characters, heavily favoring new characters. The major drawback of the balancing initiative is that firstly it seems to be a slower process of buffing champs. The new plan is to only have occasional tweaks to characters and from the description given by Kabam, it seems like it will no longer be large-scale changes to champs like we currently have but instead minor tweaks to balance champs. Secondly, the new balancing initiative is most likely going to affect mainly new champions. This means that the characters being balanced will be characters that the majority of the player base don't have access to and can't access for a long period of time. These are in my opinion the two major drawbacks of the new initiative.
Positives
Some positives of Kabam's announcements were that they are including a community figure in their balancing figure and opening the champion testing beta to more players. I think the inclusion of a community figure in the process is a good sign but at the end of the day, it is just one player included in the process which still doesn't give me too much confidence. On the other hand, opening the beta to more players is a great change and I hope that it is implemented in the game regardless of what happens in the contest's future.
Champion Rating System
The proposed champions rating system by Kabam is a bad idea. The game is far too complex and I think that the five-star system with the three categories including damage, utility, and ease of use will in no way cover all the nuances and intricacies of the game. Furthermore, no offense to Kabam, but they are the last people I think the community would want champion ratings from. Most of the community doesn't respond well to ratings and tier lists made by people who play the game for a living and I doubt they will listen to Kabam. Looking just at champion spotlight videos on youtube, Kabam always seems to have a worse understanding of champions than the player base. I think the rating system will only confuse new players and ultimately become obsolete as most players decide to ignore it. I just can't see a system like this accurately accounting for all the in-game variables such as synergies, type of damage, sustainability, support, etc. Rather than spend resources on this Kabam should shift its focus elsewhere.
Final thoughts,
I think the announcement made by Kabam was tone-deaf. It seems that they are unaware of what the players are responding well to and what the players don't appreciate. The buff program was universally agreed to be a good addition and I can't imagine what reason there would be to change it instead of addressing other issues in-game. Issues such as lackluster new champions, the outdated nature of major game modes such as alliance war, alliance quest, incursions, and arena. It doesn't make sense why these issues seemingly aren't being given priority or thought while something that the player base actually appreciates is being changed so drastically. A complete miss from Kabam.
Overall Thoughts and TLDR
The changes proposed by Kabam are tone-deaf and rather than addressing actual in-game issues they are instead taking away an aspect of the game most of the community loves. Kabam should take a step back and reassess what they need to address in the game and understand what players enjoy and what players don't.
Please leave your thoughts below but keep it civil and constructive. Hopefully, this post won't be taken down and we and Kabam can have a discussion about the game.
I am going to give it a chance. Then decide whether it works.
Six months after they start this program, each month we'll get:
-- two new champs that are starting in the balancing program
-- two champs that just finished going thru rebalancing and are being released in their finished form
-- one or two updated champs
IMO the rebalancing will lead to weaker new champs on initial release, and then improved champs on final release. It makes little sense for Kabam to initially release a champ that is OP and then to pull back on that champ six months later.
Think of how this would have benefitted the 2021 champs that no one uses: Super Skrull, Jubilee, Purgatory, Chavez, Mangog, Psychoman, Anti-Venom, Kraven.
Don’t want Herc to get nerfed because he is rated 2/5 in utility. If the program was in effect a year ago he probably would have been.
Just want to add another post to thread here to register another thumbs down for this idea that no one asked for...