P.S.A. - Black Cat and Scorpion will be the start of the new rebalance program!!
Chovner
Member Posts: 1,230 ★★★★★
Just watched a video from KT1 noting that some of the CCP members have found out that Black Cat and Scorpion will start off the new champ rebalance program.
I'm posting this because it's not formally announced to my knowledge and it's important for everyone to know so they can take that into consideration when either spending money/units on their Cav Crystals or spending their time/money/units when they're released into the arena (Black Cat arena starting tomorrow).
The last post Kabam announced about delaying the rebalance program when Omega Sentinel and Betsy Braddock were released also noted they would provide a launch date for the rebalance program that was never provided to my knowledge. If I'm wrong please share a link to where they announce these 2 new champs are officially starting off the rebalance program.
Thanks
I'm posting this because it's not formally announced to my knowledge and it's important for everyone to know so they can take that into consideration when either spending money/units on their Cav Crystals or spending their time/money/units when they're released into the arena (Black Cat arena starting tomorrow).
The last post Kabam announced about delaying the rebalance program when Omega Sentinel and Betsy Braddock were released also noted they would provide a launch date for the rebalance program that was never provided to my knowledge. If I'm wrong please share a link to where they announce these 2 new champs are officially starting off the rebalance program.
Thanks
Post edited by Kabam Zibiit on
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Comments
Rebalance means exactly that, balancing. If a champion is underperforming then they can be brought up just the same as if they are over performing
And while we’re on the subject, we have no idea what the level of over-performance is that means a nerf is necessary. I mean, take Herc for example. How does anyone know that if he were subject to this rebalance that he would be touched? What I mean, is that Kabam’s nerf detector is calibrated to a certain level of broken champ, what if that level of broken champ is above even Hercules and Kitty?
What if the only champions that could be nerfed are the pre-release Maw types that we hear rumours of being crazy broken?
I know we don’t know that either, so I’m not saying there’s a 100% chance this program will be a success, all I am saying is that let’s give it a chance. I know nerfs sound scary, and change is generally something people have to be led through while some kick and scream, but ultimately change is why this game doesn’t die out. Sometimes we need to just hold out on judgement until we see if something works or not.
Let’s see how Black Cat and Scorpion are balanced, let’s see how the subsequent 3 or 4 months balances go as well. Then we have a decent idea of what the program looks to do. Maybe we will have 6 sets of tweaks where the champs are made better. Maybe black cat will have her DAAR uptime increased to make her more useful.
Anyone who says categorically this program is a failure because of *the chance* of some champs being nerfed have monumentally jumped the gun. We don’t know what it will be like, it could be an amazing addition to the game.
What I would say, is that off the back of how well Kabam handled the buff program I feel they’ve earned some slack and some patience.
Maybe I’m just being over optimistic, but I can’t help but imagine an MCOC where this balancing system was already in place a year ago, and Chavez got her damage tuned up, purgatory had her soul abilities tuned up so they were more viable and Super Skrull… got given an even vaguely useful kit.
And over that time, I would guess that no champions were released that were so broken that they even needed to be nerfed. But what the system allows Kabam to do, is be even braver with new releases because they can fall back on the tune down option if they go overboard and create a quake monster.
The issue used to be that kabam can easily buff champs, there’s no downside. So it’s not so bad releasing a lacklustre champion because they can always buff them. But if you release a crazy good champion, the player base would explode if you nerf. So this led to kabam being overly conservative with champs because they can always just get buffs.
Now, kabam are completely honest and they say that they essentially want a system where champions *might* be nerfed, but this allows them to push the envelope with champions abilities because if they create a game breaking champ, they can always just press the undo button. Not to mention, champs who perform badly are immediately buffed and there’s no disappointment of the first champion of the last 6 months that you pull being Super Skrull.
1. some champs are really good
2. some champs are in the middle
3. and some champs are plain horrible
rather than a situation where there aren't any really bad champs, but there also aren't any really good champs. i doubt it'll ever get to that extreme, i just hope nothing is drastically changed over how things have been done in the past
Dislike the rating system too, a lot of Champions have similar utility ratings to quake without having close to her level of utility. Don’t think it’s a good metric to balance off of.
These reasons and the slow buff program are my dislikes. I am looking forward to champs being useful if they weren’t initially.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/300777/champion-attributes-live-on-scorpion-black-cat-and-more#latest
Champions have always been subject to balancing in a far more subtle way, being the shifting meta of the game. Blade didn’t fall off because of his abilities being tuned down, the game just left him behind. The same can be said for plenty of the Ghosts of Top Tiers Past.
Kabam is very good at implementing new nodes and champion abilities to undercut specific matchups. It’s why every robot boss in 7.4 has armor break immunity as a node and why Nimrod and Omega Sentinel are immune to ability accuracy modification from Mutants, so Magneto can’t *completely* cheese it.
Basically, my point is that this kind of adjustment has been happening behind the scenes for the entire life of the game. This is just a more transparent iteration of it, and one that requires less Dev time to figure out what nodes specifically will keep you from face rolling a fight that was supposed to be difficult.
I agree that they’re both versions of tuning, and this one is more transparent. But they don’t accomplish the same thing regarding top meta options. (Unless that was your point and I’ve just grabbed the wrong end of the stick lol)
I will say this again, if this program had been in place for the last year, there would have been significantly more Buffs than nerfs.
And honestly, I don't understand why they are putting so much effort into buffing new champs that the majority of the player base won't have for at least three months (and given how large the basic pool is, probably a year or more). Why not just buff the champs that literally everyone has been asking for? That'll clearly have a larger impact on the game (since more people have them), and the community will definitely be happier if fan favorites like Groot or Cyclops are buffed. I just don't see how Kabam will be able to align their goals with the player base's.
Combine this with the fact that about every year there seems to be a change to the program... how many champs will be rebalanced, will they they be tweaks no-one is going to notice or care about, or meaningful, who is most likely to be rebalanced (over the last year plus, the vast majority were older champions, but this new thread focuses on brand new champions). I'd be willing to bet that before the end of 2022, another "change to the program" will be announced, either in who gets tweaked, how many, how often, etc.
IHow about rather than saying... hey play the MQ champ against this champ, and depending on how things go, around the time they enter the basic pool... we will change them... we instead evaluate potential champs and changes in a beta server, evaluate their numbers, and then only then make them available to players purchase, play with and fight against. This should greatly reduce the number of champs that need immediate tuning, as well as flush out any "Sabretooth charges" from Sasquatch, Shang Chi stun loops, and other things that might have been missed in Kabam's internal testing.
If a beta isn't possible, at least give it to the CCP players a bit earlier... enough time to gather their feedback and actually apply /retest the champion before they are needed for launch (so maybe a month to be safe?)
Finally, if for whatever reason, any time a champ is touched in a non strictly beneficial manner (just have attack go up... yes, something like Gamora's, Guillotine's, or Hood's latest buff attempts... are changes, but not strictly improvements)... give players some kind of opportunity to exchange them.
These might be anything from rank down tickets (I know not something Kabam really wants) to a trade in.. the champion for say a featured crystal + some of the resources used ranking up the champion (e.g. rank up gem and sig stones for the class, along with iso and gold)... that's actually better for the player, not sure if that is easier for Kabam or not. This was attempted with Namor/Cull, but wasn't done perfectly, but was "pretty close" for most people.
This kind of program will also set any mechanism necessary for any major nerfs to established champions... knowing what to expect to alleviate people's fears in ranking up champs that are "actually good".
Knull and Anti-Venom came out six months ago. If the program were out for these champions Anti-Venom would likely be treated well. For Knull however, it’s unsure how he would change. He hopefully wouldn’t of changed at all. That’s not a thought I had when he released, but it’s something to think about for every champion that gets released for the foreseeable future.
But the question here is, how can Kabam gather champ stats outside of CCP?
= Do they temporarily "lend" the 5* / 6* version of the champ to the player base? or at least to some?
This might be a good plus for both Kabam and players as it will allow them to test the champ for the masses on different game modes and capabilities. Another plus side is it could temp more players to buy the cavs
= Will a free permanent 3* version would suffice in testing?
= Can be there be a beta server where more people / if not all are allowed to test these champions?
Another question begging is that a player buys a crystal and gets the champ. but that champ gets rebalanced to the negative side. Will that player be entitled some form of compensation?
I will say this again, if this program had been in place for the last year, there would have been significantly more Buffs than nerfs.” -Kabam Miike
After reading @Kabam Miike’s statement. There are definitely pros with the program. But there are also many cons and concerns that I’ll try to explain the best I can through breaking down and going piece by piece through the statement above.
“So, I get where this is coming from, but literally every Champion released ever has been open to rebalancing, and many of them have been. This is no different,”
Yes, while that is true, champions haven’t ever had a spotlight on them like they do now. What incentive should a summoner have to rank a champ that might do less then what there abilities stated a couple month’s ago? The line “This is no different” ignores a psychological difference of there being a system and how summoners will approach rank ups with the knowledge that not only will their champion may be looked at and possibly changed in the future, but instead is guaranteed to.
“it's just now finally formalized and gives players more say in the process.”
This should be a pro. More communication is always welcome and no one will argue against giving players more say in the process. The main concern invoked would have to do with how players get more say? If a champion was nerfed, would players have more of a say in what that nerf would be or if it could be retuned after the nerf went live?
The same argument arises with a buff that comes out as lackluster. Take Psycho-Man for example. He was a lackluster champion before his buff. Now, he still under preforms to a similar degree. If he was a part in this balance program, would players have gotten more of a say than they have right now?
“We've had to adjust Champions shortly after release many times, and if anything, this should give you MORE confidence in the fact that a Champion that isn't as good as expected is going to be buffed to be better.”
Probably the biggest pro of the program. Optimistically there won’t be any Super Skrull’s and Phycho-Man’s after the six months. Hopefully this is what the program gets known for.
“I will say this again, if this program had been in place for the last year, there would have been significantly more Buffs than nerfs.”
This final statement is a mixed bag. On one hand, many buff that even gave small changes like the ones given to Immortal Hulk would be an amazing addition to the game. However, this implies that there would’ve been at least one additional nerf which doesn’t sit right. If a champion like Hercules (which is a champion I ranked and awakened after getting out of his featured) was nerfed it would feel like a punch in the gut.
Overall, this program has potential to be a great feature, no one will deny that. But it also has the concern of increasing nerfs. Hopefully the program turns out very worthwhile and people tend to enjoy it.
You can't rebalance before release. They need to see widespread performance. Devs are laser focused on how the champ should perform the way they designed it. Putting champs in our hands let's them see how it performs and allows them to see things that are possible with a champ that they didn't have intentions for.
She Hulk is a primary example of this. Her designer did not have her heavy designed the way it was before her nerf/fix in mind when released. We found that.
No matter the program or not, rebalancing could have happened and has like with namor, full and human Torch.