Swipe up for Heavy

Hey @Kabam Miike,

In the new input system you guys made it harder to swipe up on the right side of the screen in order to get heavy attack.
We've tested a lot, and you've made it harder and more 'hit and miss' to do it, it quite often fails to trigger.

Is that by design?
Will you be putting it back to how it was?

Comments

Morpheus_123

I've never swiped up to heavy, I didn't know that was even an option? I hold and release for a heavy.

JackDiamond

Yes, it worked brilliantly, a great way to do it and much faster, and it still does work, sometimes - but now it's failing to fire sometimes.

Try it!

JackDiamond

I'm really curious what the two disagrees were about.

Think it's not real? (Try it)
Think it's not less reliable? (Try it lots, at least on Android)
Think I shouldn't have said it in public as you liked having it as your secret? (Ahhhh, well, I can't help you with that! I'm hoping to get it fixed)

I'm honestly starting to wonder if some people just want to see the world burn.... that, or I have some fans who follow me around and disagree just because it's me!

Morpheus_123

I'm really curious what the two disagrees were about.
Think it's not real? (Try it)
Think it's not less reliable? (Try it lots, at least on Android)
Think I shouldn't have said it in public as you liked having it as your secret? (Ahhhh, well, I can't help you with that! I'm hoping to get it fixed)
I'm honestly starting to wonder if some people just want to see the world burn.... that, or I have some fans who follow me around and disagree just because it's me!

Some people just hit disagree to everything, probably to provoke a reaction. It's quite a confrontational site tbh. It wasn't me anyway. I was quite surprised there was another way to use heavy, I'll try it today. Although my muscle memory might be hard to change after nearly 8 years!

The_Chump

Hey @Kabam Miike,

In the new input system you guys made it harder to swipe up on the right side of the screen in order to get heavy attack.
We've tested a lot, and you've made it harder and more 'hit and miss' to do it, it quite often fails to trigger.

Is that by design?
Will you be putting it back to how it was?

So i just tried to heavy by swiping up on right side of my phone and i didnt do a single heavy. I'm thinking if this was a thing, maybe it was never meant to be abd that is why you're having issues now

Malreck04

guys I don't think he's actually referring to swiping but rather dragging up with your thumb, giving the game enough time to register a heavy

SummonerNR

I’d venture to say that your position Left/Right on the screen when in contact with the screen, and for how long, determines a Tap (Light hit), Swipe right (Medium), or a press-n-hold (Heavy).
And that maybe swiping UP is treated as an extended contact within the same relative Left/Right position on the screen (since Up/Down movement does not do anything in fighting), so might get treated as being a Heavy attack if in contact with the screen for long enough time on that same relative Left/Right position.

I tried very quick UP Swipes, and it does not register as Heavy.
But when I tried longer UP Swipes (longer across more height of screen, or slower swipe, both resulting in longer contact time), it did register as Heavy.
But basically needed just as long of contact time as the normal “same spot” press-n-hold for a Heavy.

So not any better, and probably actually a worse method since during that UP motion you could stray a bit to the left or right thus negating the attempt at heavy.

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JackDiamond

@SummonerNR it's only recently that it's been so fiddly - hence the first post.

Until the new input system came in, it was much more forgiving in speed, position and timing. I can tell you that I've been telling my team about it for a couple of years now, and about 20 or 30% have adopted it permanently as it seems to give better response time and results (much of the rest either didn't notice or didn't want to retrain).

PS I believe I originally got it from one of the big YouTubers, eg Seatin, Prof Hoff or similar. So there are at least some higher/highest level players who use it.

JackDiamond

guys I don't think he's actually referring to swiping but rather dragging up with your thumb, giving the game enough time to register a heavy

I'm not sure I'd know the difference between swipe and drag, but thanks for helping others work it out.

JackDiamond

Some people just hit disagree to everything, probably to provoke a reaction. It's quite a confrontational site tbh. It wasn't me anyway. I was quite surprised there was another way to use heavy, I'll try it today. Although my muscle memory might be hard to change after nearly 8 years!

Yeah, I think you are right about some doing it for the reaction. It's irritating but there it is.

Hope you get it - in the right situation (and when working properly - thanks Kabam!) it's great!

JackDiamond

So i just tried to heavy by swiping up on right side of my phone and i didnt do a single heavy. I'm thinking if this was a thing, maybe it was never meant to be abd that is why you're having issues now

As I've mentioned to others, it's been a thing for several years now, and used by at least one high level MCOC youtuber, and quite a few other high level (p4 and above) players.

It definitely can work, though it is a bit more hit and miss now since the new input system.

DawsMan

Hey @Kabam Miike,

In the new input system you guys made it harder to swipe up on the right side of the screen in order to get heavy attack.
We've tested a lot, and you've made it harder and more 'hit and miss' to do it, it quite often fails to trigger.

Is that by design?
Will you be putting it back to how it was?

guys I don't think he's actually referring to swiping but rather dragging up with your thumb, giving the game enough time to register a heavy

Holding down is how you heavy malreck is prolly right. There's no way on earth swiping up is a heavy I'm positive I would've accidnetally heavied many times

Morpheus_123

Some people just hit disagree to everything, probably to provoke a reaction. It's quite a confrontational site tbh. It wasn't me anyway. I was quite surprised there was another way to use heavy, I'll try it today. Although my muscle memory might be hard to change after nearly 8 years!
Yeah, I think you are right about some doing it for the reaction. It's irritating but there it is.

Hope you get it - in the right situation (and when working properly - thanks Kabam!) it's great!

I had a good try when playing last night, and it never worked at all for me. I think it may just be a case of when you swipe up the pressure maybe greater on the device and it registers it as a long press.

To be honest even if it had worked for me I don't think my old fingers would have allowed me to change my play style now anyway

NastyPhish

Some people just hit disagree to everything, probably to provoke a reaction. It's quite a confrontational site tbh. It wasn't me anyway. I was quite surprised there was another way to use heavy, I'll try it today. Although my muscle memory might be hard to change after nearly 8 years!
Yeah, I think you are right about some doing it for the reaction. It's irritating but there it is.

Hope you get it - in the right situation (and when working properly - thanks Kabam!) it's great!
I had a good try when playing last night, and it never worked at all for me. I think it may just be a case of when you swipe up the pressure maybe greater on the device and it registers it as a long press.

To be honest even if it had worked for me I don't think my old fingers would have allowed me to change my play style now anyway

Swipe up had always been In the game for quick heavies.

It’s hilarious to read all the disagree spams that clearly just don’t know.

JackDiamond

Swipe up had always been In the game for quick heavies.

It’s hilarious to read all the disagree spams that clearly just don’t know.

THANK YOU! What, these guys can't experiment with it? I'm saying it's missing sometimes, but it's still there if you get it right...

Morpheus_123

Some people just hit disagree to everything, probably to provoke a reaction. It's quite a confrontational site tbh. It wasn't me anyway. I was quite surprised there was another way to use heavy, I'll try it today. Although my muscle memory might be hard to change after nearly 8 years!
Yeah, I think you are right about some doing it for the reaction. It's irritating but there it is.

Hope you get it - in the right situation (and when working properly - thanks Kabam!) it's great!
I had a good try when playing last night, and it never worked at all for me. I think it may just be a case of when you swipe up the pressure maybe greater on the device and it registers it as a long press.

To be honest even if it had worked for me I don't think my old fingers would have allowed me to change my play style now anyway
Swipe up had always been In the game for quick heavies.

It’s hilarious to read all the disagree spams that clearly just don’t know.

Why quote me, as if I’m disagreeing or arguing the OP?! I said I tried it and it didn’t work, end of story. If it causes you a problem that it doesn’t work on my device take it up with Apple.

Khellendros138

It absolutely does not work. If that was an intended function I'm sure it would have been included in the tutorials at the beginning of the game. I tested myself after seeing this post. A "long" swipe up with extended contact not typical for the taps and swipes associated with playing this game would register a heavy, but like I said, only with a longer than usual amount of time swiping up.

JackDiamond

To all those who say it cannot be done, and never was possible, here it is on Android:
https://streamable.com/4ekew9
Notice the little dot on the right showing my finger movements?

So, tell me again about how it 'absolutely does not work' (Khellendros138), 'There's no way on earth swiping up is a heavy' (DawsMan)

(Note: This was made quickly, so it's not my best fighting - plenty in my team get amazing speed on heavy with this, at least when it was reliable until a few days ago)

And @Morpheus_123 ? All good with me, no issue with you.

JackDiamond

Now if it really really doesn't work on Apple then if I were you guys I'd be asking Kabam to give you the same capabilities as the Android crowd... or you can just keep insisting it's not a real thing and doesn't work. It's up to you.

SummonerNR

While the 2 ppl mentioned who said it absolutely does not work are indeed incorrect, the sentiment that it is not how a Heavy was designed to operate does ring true.

Whether or not it maybe has become more “fiddley” of late, it's probably still just a by-product of having your finger in contact with screen for long enough (during the course of the UP swipe) to be recognized as a Heavy. No matter whether you are just holding, or moving your finger UP, or even doing a little dance around the screen with your finger, while in touch with the screen.

Only reason that same premise does not also hold true when moving across screens in the forward (RIGHT) direction is that moving to Right gets counted as a Medium Attack prior to being held in contact long enough for it to be treated as a Heavy. Same with LEFT (retreat/evade).

FYI, swiping DOWN over just as long of duration also gets treated as a Heavy (just like your UP direction).

It is not the intended way to Heavy, but if it works for you so be it.
But I doubt you have been able to swipe up quicker (less contact duration) than the quickest allowed Press-n-Hold method and still have your UP count as a Heavy.

Maybe you’ve just assumed a Press-n-Hold had to be for much longer than it really does. Try those quicker to see just how short of time you can make those.

Khellendros138

To all those who say it cannot be done, and never was possible, here it is on Android:
https://streamable.com/4ekew9
Notice the little dot on the right showing my finger movements?

So, tell me again about how it 'absolutely does not work' (Khellendros138), 'There's no way on earth swiping up is a heavy' (DawsMan)

(Note: This was made quickly, so it's not my best fighting - plenty in my team get amazing speed on heavy with this, at least when it was reliable until a few days ago)

And @Morpheus_123 ? All good with me, no issue with you.

That is literally only registering a heavy because the duration of time your finger is making contact with the screen. Much longer than the time required to make a dash. That is not a swipe, like the motion used to dash. That is a long press, thus registering a heavy.

At what point where you led to believe that an upward swipe would launch a heavy? The game never introduces that as a way to do it.

That aside the charge time for a champ to load a heavy would not be any different, be it swipe, or hold. That would be unbalanced.

JackDiamond

While the 2 ppl mentioned who said it absolutely does not work are indeed incorrect, the sentiment that it is not how a Heavy was designed to operate does ring true.

Thank you for recognising that it works.

I don't think I'm qualified to say whether that rings true or not. Personally I always figured it was left over from the early days of the game, but I don't know either way.

I actually got it from a big name MCOC youtuber, Seatin I think, or maybe Prof Hoff or Dork Lessons or one of those.

Whether or not it maybe has become more “fiddley” of late, it's probably still just a by-product of having your finger in contact with screen for long enough (during the course of the UP swipe) to be recognized as a Heavy. No matter whether you are just holding, or moving your finger UP, or even doing a little dance around the screen with your finger, while in touch with the screen.

Only reason that same premise does not also hold true when moving across screens in the forward (RIGHT) direction is that moving to Right gets counted as a Medium Attack prior to being held in contact long enough for it to be treated as a Heavy. Same with LEFT (retreat/evade).

FYI, swiping DOWN over just as long of duration also gets treated as a Heavy (just like your UP direction).

That's interesting (the swiping down), thank you. We both learned something today! And you are right, you can indeed go up and down with it!

I think you are right in saying that it's a function of how long it is held down, and that any up or down movement is incidental - though I would argue it has value, see later.

I also think you are right in saying left or right breaks the 'heavy' as the left/right movement takes priority. And yes, I think it's entirely possible that the new input system's left and right thresholds have been changed and are interfering with the swipe up/down mechanism that previously worked, making it more uncertain.

That does make me wonder whether there are people out there cursing because they are trying to get their heavy and are accidentally sliding left or right a little and so breaking the heavy, under the new input system.

It is not the intended way to Heavy, but if it works for you so be it.
But I doubt you have been able to swipe up quicker (less contact duration) than the quickest allowed Press-n-Hold method and still have your UP count as a Heavy.

Where I think it has value is in the difference between timing a press for very short period of time (to get the heavy) by time as opposed to distance.

I would argue that most people find it a lot easier to learn to move their thumb eg 1.5 cm and get it almost exactly the same every time, than they do to hold their thumb down for eg exactly 0.5 seconds, no more and no less.

It's much easier to time accurately and repeatedly by distance than time. At least I think so, and it's easy enough to test with a ruler and stop watch....

Of course, it being more unreliable now kind of negates that value, unless Kabam put it back...

Maybe you’ve just assumed a Press-n-Hold had to be for much longer than it really does. Try those quicker to see just how short of time you can make those.

I certainly will, especially if the swipe up/down no longer is reliable.

Thank you for your thoughtful, interesting and helpful post, I really appreciate it.

JackDiamond

So, tell me again about how it 'absolutely does not work' (Khellendros138)
That is literally only registering a heavy

So it does work then? I appreciate you accepting that.

That aside the charge time for a champ to load a heavy would not be any different, be it swipe, or hold

So swiping is as fast as holding then, for charge time, and not worse? Good to hear.
Though as I argue above, in some ways it was better as it allowed more accurate timing - at least when it was working fully.
But hey, you might disagree, and that's fine too.

At what point where you led to believe that an upward swipe would launch a heavy? The game never introduces that as a way to do it.

I actually got it from a big name MCOC youtuber, Seatin I think, or maybe Prof Hoff or Dork Lessons or one of those, a few years back.

unknown

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JackDiamond

@Zan0

Did I swipe up (or if you prefer, 'drag' up)? Yes.
Did I get a heavy? Yes.
Therefore it is possible, and the people who said it was not possible are wrong, or possibly working on a phone where it doesn't work.

If you personally are having a problem seeing the finger move up the screen then that's on you.

After talking to SummonerNR I accept that it is probably a form of holding for heavy, but with moving. OK, fine. If so then that means it absolutely works, and it works in exactly the same amount of time as holding it down - no more, no less.

But that is a long way away from the comments others were saying:

There's no way on earth swiping up is a heavy
It absolutely does not work.
A "long" swipe up with extended contact [...] would register a heavy, but like I said, only with a longer than usual amount of time swiping up.

I'd say I proved my point nicely, thank you.

Khellendros138

Though I understand your point, and how you see it. The way your topic is presented it is implied that the swipe up registering the heavy is the same as the swipe used for a medium dash. Typically when people use the word swipe referencing actions in this game it is a quick movement like what is used to dash forward and backward. In that way "swiping up" does not launch a heavy, however a long press wether stationary, upward, or apparently downward does register the heavy, due to the duration of the press.

So you are not technically wrong by how you are intending your message to be understood, however the way myself and others have interpreted it from the start Is like I said above, that a quick swipe would do it, which it will not.

JackDiamond

Fair enough Khellendros. I honestly don't know what other word one would use to describe it than a 'swipe', but if that means something different to you, OK.

Thank you for looking at it with fresh eyes.

JackDiamond

I would add, this originally was addressed to Kabam Miike, and was a report of a bug (or at least a change due to the new input system) and a request for it to be looked at (I still hope they will). He - or someone at Kabam - hopefully knows enough about the input system that they would have interpreted it correctly.

This was never meant to be an educational or discussion post for other players - if I wanted that I would have put it in a different part of the system.

But I appreciate the clarification, and hope it helps Kabam figure it out.