What happens is, heavy boosting and heavy potting causes the entire alliance (assuming the entire alliance does that) to artificially inflate their war ratings (by winning wars that they would not have won if they didn’t boost and pot so extravagantly).
When that happens, in order to sustain that inflated war rating, the boosting and potting will have to be continued, causing unnecessary strain on items.
What can be done is NOT boost and heavy pot for two seasons and see where you land. That is the alliance’s “equilibrium war rating” where you have a 50% win rate.
Then question yourself, by looking at the rank rewards, whether the extra rewards from your existing rank to the next rank is worth the amount of effort, items, stress and unhappiness incurred.
If it isn’t, then don’t bother with spending excessive items for war. It’ll just result in a never-ending spiral of pain, complaints, finger pointing over deaths.
Just take things easy at your equilibrium war rating and if you want to take things a level higher, change to an alliance with a higher war rank/rating, improve on your skill so your standard of play (aka equilibrium war rating) increases and can sustain that level of competition without spending items more than your loyalty intake can afford.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Id agree, but certain boosts are needed for normal play. Basically you say is try your best and throw without healing, which isnt really a possibility in higher plat/ masters. We need to have a supply of loyalty which is enough to sustain/ can be farmed. EVery other resource can be farmed, heck even bought. Not loyalty. And what they have done isnt enough.
Which is exactly what Nig is saying. In higher play and masters you’re probably having an inflated war rating due to winning some wars you definitely wouldn’t have if you hadn’t of boosted. You would drop down to lower brackets which is your Equilibrium War Rating.
Also I’m not entirely sure which boosts are “Needed” for normal play. Boosts imo are used to make things easier, which is not “normal play”, because they give you things which aren’t usually there.
Please come to higher tiers and see for yourself whether they are "needed". Boosts are things that are essential by all players at higher tiers. Nobody just "floats" to a tier on skill alone. There are PLENTY of fights that cannot be done without the 3min boosts which is why they are monetized so heavily. "inflated" war rating is nonsense, if everyone didnt have boosts then it would be an even playing field.
basically what you wanna say is pay up or shut up, nothing more.
While I get what you're saying, lots of players and officers have gotten used to using non ideal matchups to nuke down fights under the safety of invulns and power boosts. People are going to have to break that habit
I'm playing in plat3/4 for 4 years, every season until this last one was very enjoyable and fun and competitive,this season with the changes that @kabam made unfortunately it will be our last as an Alliance,we run out of potions and boosts,(most of our items used were from input bugs) plus mistakes happen to the best of the players, adding all that up ,I spend over 1 million loyalty this season (which isn't over) , healing to full boosted r4 champs is very expensive,to conclude my opinion, aw will be going down down in every season if you don't address this issue and it's very sad, thanks...
Sure but everyone is going to experience this issue and have less items. Only people in Masters will still be spending units for items, so platinum will still be competitive just with more deaths.
Nope I think ppl will stop playing aw because they don't want to be responsible for dragging downth alliances, that's the problem we are facing in our alliance,ppl said they will go to an aw free alliance,so that's what I mean aw will be going down and down on participation and competition, sadly again...
AW is easily the best mode for endgame users. It’s competitive and there is strategy involved. I think AQ is pointless without AW, why get rank up materials if not for competitive modes like AW and Battlegrounds? It sounds like your in a lower level alliance so maybe your right, but I just think your over reacting. Maybe your not as skilled and get frustrated because you personally can’t take fights without boots, but all I see happening in AW for platinum 1 and lower is just more deaths. A lot of good alliances do relaxed AW and still get P3 and P2 rewards which are fair for not being as competitive.
Your thoughts are wrong, I've done every content in the game without using unit man,so I think my skills aren't the problem.....
That’s good, especially if your a long time player and never had to use units for 6.2 champion pre nerf or units for AOL, very impressive. I guess then I don’t understand why you can’t compete in high tier AW without boosts every fight? I also think that if you can’t do that, then you shouldn’t be competing in a Masters or P1 alliance. So P2 and P3 is probably better for you and like I said, many great alliances do p2 casually so that’s probably more your skill set when it comes to AW.
Let me explain it further, I'm taking 10/11 fights per war ,power snack,mix master, footloose, conflictor power gain node and boss fights,I Solo most of the fights unless a mistake (or bug)happen, everyone and I mean everyone who wants to be sure for a solo always boosts up,my problem is that constantly healing r4 champs to ensure the the next fight is soloed is very expensive and the loyalty we earn doesn't recover the cost of healing,hope that clarify everything. P.S ....I only spend money 3- 4 times a year when good deals are worth it.
Well there is your problem man! Haha maybe somebody else should pick up the slack, that’s crazy you take 10 fights every war. I agree with everything you are saying, I just don’t agree with your originally point of AW is going to be only for Masters. If you wanna take less fights, be in a good alliance fighting for a spot in Masters, with great AW planning so you can save some boosts, let me know.
What happens is, heavy boosting and heavy potting causes the entire alliance (assuming the entire alliance does that) to artificially inflate their war ratings (by winning wars that they would not have won if they didn’t boost and pot so extravagantly).
When that happens, in order to sustain that inflated war rating, the boosting and potting will have to be continued, causing unnecessary strain on items.
What can be done is NOT boost and heavy pot for two seasons and see where you land. That is the alliance’s “equilibrium war rating” where you have a 50% win rate.
Then question yourself, by looking at the rank rewards, whether the extra rewards from your existing rank to the next rank is worth the amount of effort, items, stress and unhappiness incurred.
If it isn’t, then don’t bother with spending excessive items for war. It’ll just result in a never-ending spiral of pain, complaints, finger pointing over deaths.
Just take things easy at your equilibrium war rating and if you want to take things a level higher, change to an alliance with a higher war rank/rating, improve on your skill so your standard of play (aka equilibrium war rating) increases and can sustain that level of competition without spending items more than your loyalty intake can afford.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Id agree, but certain boosts are needed for normal play. Basically you say is try your best and throw without healing, which isnt really a possibility in higher plat/ masters. We need to have a supply of loyalty which is enough to sustain/ can be farmed. EVery other resource can be farmed, heck even bought. Not loyalty. And what they have done isnt enough.
Which is exactly what Nig is saying. In higher play and masters you’re probably having an inflated war rating due to winning some wars you definitely wouldn’t have if you hadn’t of boosted. You would drop down to lower brackets which is your Equilibrium War Rating.
Also I’m not entirely sure which boosts are “Needed” for normal play. Boosts imo are used to make things easier, which is not “normal play”, because they give you things which aren’t usually there.
Please come to higher tiers and see for yourself whether they are "needed". Boosts are things that are essential by all players at higher tiers. Nobody just "floats" to a tier on skill alone. There are PLENTY of fights that cannot be done without the 3min boosts which is why they are monetized so heavily. "inflated" war rating is nonsense, if everyone didnt have boosts then it would be an even playing field.
basically what you wanna say is pay up or shut up, nothing more.
What do you define as higher tiers?
What fights SPECIFICALLY CANNOT be done without the 3 minute boosts?
I’ll wait for your response.
Im at 3k+ wr. Expert map. Let me give you examples
Path2 t1, bruteforce, node20 masochism. Ideally need sp1 start or have to take block damage (ends up in more loyalty usage), to get to a bar of power to play around strike counter, since r3s dont have enough combat power rate. Similar for p2 t2.
Depending on matchups, Nick fury needs an invul or stray ai might make him spam sp1s and go unblockable: more loyalty to heal.
magik usage ANYWHERE needs sp1 start else you risk taking a lot of damage/dying before sp2 with the proliferation of r3/r4 defenders vs an r5.
Depending on your matchup for path4, sp1 start needed to finish fight asap.
Nimrod vs kitty currently safest way to fight is sp1 start. Footloose wpx: nimrod sp1 start or risk getting into a corner with unstoppable unblockable wpx.
Apoc burst fights need sp1 start to get out of there quick.
This is not counting ANY class boosts. Most of the attackers prefer class boosts, and that takes even more loyalty. Also remember, healing is 9k = 20k loyalty. Most toons are 60k+ in health boosted.
If you dont know much about expert map, base attack is 8k on normal nodes. healthpools range from 130k-200k normal nodes. Mini bosses are 300k range with 10k attack, and bosses are 13-14k attack with 400k+ health.
So I’ve been in challenger pretty much all season. I’ve come up against almost all of those fights at some point or another. Not once did I NEED any of the aforementioned boosts for those fights. And even in your own words a lot of them are just preferable to have. There is a difference between a NEED and a nice to have. I actually don’t see a single example there that NEEDS them.
Challenger and expert are a massive difference. the level of boosting, and health pools, the punishment off attack, is very very different. The level of opposition as well. I play challenger map on my baby third account and i never boost either.
And isnt this about loyalty management? If you dont use 3 minute boosts, you get a net negative on loyalty because then you NEED to heal up. So you take a bullet either way, we pick our poison. But, a win nets you only 60k loyalty, and loss nets you 40k. that is less than 2 potions, notwithstanding the class boosts/3min boosts. That is my qualm, nothing else. Im used to the difficulty, and thats what we play for. This loyalty economy is broken and there is far too less available, even to perennial winners.
I'm playing in plat3/4 for 4 years, every season until this last one was very enjoyable and fun and competitive,this season with the changes that @kabam made unfortunately it will be our last as an Alliance,we run out of potions and boosts,(most of our items used were from input bugs) plus mistakes happen to the best of the players, adding all that up ,I spend over 1 million loyalty this season (which isn't over) , healing to full boosted r4 champs is very expensive,to conclude my opinion, aw will be going down down in every season if you don't address this issue and it's very sad, thanks...
Sure but everyone is going to experience this issue and have less items. Only people in Masters will still be spending units for items, so platinum will still be competitive just with more deaths.
Nope I think ppl will stop playing aw because they don't want to be responsible for dragging downth alliances, that's the problem we are facing in our alliance,ppl said they will go to an aw free alliance,so that's what I mean aw will be going down and down on participation and competition, sadly again...
AW is easily the best mode for endgame users. It’s competitive and there is strategy involved. I think AQ is pointless without AW, why get rank up materials if not for competitive modes like AW and Battlegrounds? It sounds like your in a lower level alliance so maybe your right, but I just think your over reacting. Maybe your not as skilled and get frustrated because you personally can’t take fights without boots, but all I see happening in AW for platinum 1 and lower is just more deaths. A lot of good alliances do relaxed AW and still get P3 and P2 rewards which are fair for not being as competitive.
Your thoughts are wrong, I've done every content in the game without using unit man,so I think my skills aren't the problem.....
That’s good, especially if your a long time player and never had to use units for 6.2 champion pre nerf or units for AOL, very impressive. I guess then I don’t understand why you can’t compete in high tier AW without boosts every fight? I also think that if you can’t do that, then you shouldn’t be competing in a Masters or P1 alliance. So P2 and P3 is probably better for you and like I said, many great alliances do p2 casually so that’s probably more your skill set when it comes to AW.
Let me explain it further, I'm taking 10/11 fights per war ,power snack,mix master, footloose, conflictor power gain node and boss fights,I Solo most of the fights unless a mistake (or bug)happen, everyone and I mean everyone who wants to be sure for a solo always boosts up,my problem is that constantly healing r4 champs to ensure the the next fight is soloed is very expensive and the loyalty we earn doesn't recover the cost of healing,hope that clarify everything. P.S ....I only spend money 3- 4 times a year when good deals are worth it.
I’m not going to question your skill. You must be good but you’re being taken advantage of. I took 9 fights this war which I had all counters for (used 1 potion and boosts) but usually im taking 6-7 fights which isn’t bad. Your alliance mates should be helping you. This means you’re taking 3 fights tier 1, 2 minis, 3 fights tier 2, 2-3 fights in mini island. That’s on you man, you have 8 other members and a backup who should be helping. You’re costing yourself all that loyalty. There are 50 fights in war, which means each member should take about 5 (including backup) you’re doing the job of 2 pekple.
My main problem (and I'm sure for the most FTP and not only) Is the changes kabam made in potions and loyalty aren't enough to cover the cost of healing and boosting, that's all.40%revives is a great add on but we need more means to access more loyalty...an arena maybe? I don't know,I only know the problem will get bigger and bigger evry season, wait and you'll see
I'm playing in plat3/4 for 4 years, every season until this last one was very enjoyable and fun and competitive,this season with the changes that @kabam made unfortunately it will be our last as an Alliance,we run out of potions and boosts,(most of our items used were from input bugs) plus mistakes happen to the best of the players, adding all that up ,I spend over 1 million loyalty this season (which isn't over) , healing to full boosted r4 champs is very expensive,to conclude my opinion, aw will be going down down in every season if you don't address this issue and it's very sad, thanks...
Sure but everyone is going to experience this issue and have less items. Only people in Masters will still be spending units for items, so platinum will still be competitive just with more deaths.
Nope I think ppl will stop playing aw because they don't want to be responsible for dragging downth alliances, that's the problem we are facing in our alliance,ppl said they will go to an aw free alliance,so that's what I mean aw will be going down and down on participation and competition, sadly again...
AW is easily the best mode for endgame users. It’s competitive and there is strategy involved. I think AQ is pointless without AW, why get rank up materials if not for competitive modes like AW and Battlegrounds? It sounds like your in a lower level alliance so maybe your right, but I just think your over reacting. Maybe your not as skilled and get frustrated because you personally can’t take fights without boots, but all I see happening in AW for platinum 1 and lower is just more deaths. A lot of good alliances do relaxed AW and still get P3 and P2 rewards which are fair for not being as competitive.
Your thoughts are wrong, I've done every content in the game without using unit man,so I think my skills aren't the problem.....
That’s good, especially if your a long time player and never had to use units for 6.2 champion pre nerf or units for AOL, very impressive. I guess then I don’t understand why you can’t compete in high tier AW without boosts every fight? I also think that if you can’t do that, then you shouldn’t be competing in a Masters or P1 alliance. So P2 and P3 is probably better for you and like I said, many great alliances do p2 casually so that’s probably more your skill set when it comes to AW.
Let me explain it further, I'm taking 10/11 fights per war ,power snack,mix master, footloose, conflictor power gain node and boss fights,I Solo most of the fights unless a mistake (or bug)happen, everyone and I mean everyone who wants to be sure for a solo always boosts up,my problem is that constantly healing r4 champs to ensure the the next fight is soloed is very expensive and the loyalty we earn doesn't recover the cost of healing,hope that clarify everything. P.S ....I only spend money 3- 4 times a year when good deals are worth it.
Well there is your problem man! Haha maybe somebody else should pick up the slack, that’s crazy you take 10 fights every war. I agree with everything you are saying, I just don’t agree with your originally point of AW is going to be only for Masters. If you wanna take less fights, be in a good alliance fighting for a spot in Masters, with great AW planning so you can save some boosts, let me know.
Maybe my thread tittle was wrong 👍
@TheFlashy20 in game name please to reach you out?
I agree that 5 minute boosts need to be relooked at. Advanced war timers were increased to 5 minutes for a reason... fights take longer.
Either the boost needs to be increased to like 10 minutes, or it should act more like AQ cross fights, where you get the boost for the next 3 fights (or until replaced by another boost) and time isn't a factor.
The thing is, I completely agree that in an ideal world it would be fine to say “well we just don’t need to boost every fight or heal every fight anymore, just see where you naturally get to”. But, that would be great if top alliances couldn’t just unit their way through it.
Before the loyalty changes, AW was almost a level playing field for FTP and Paying players in terms of potions and loyalty. Now, it’s heavily weighted towards those who can spend. I don’t think that’s a positive change for the mode.
It’s now got to the point that you can only heal up once in a war and buy one or two boosts before you have a net negative loyalty gain. And that’s at the very top. All this does, is it separates out paying players in a way that it didn’t use to do.
I’m not saying revert back to compensation economy permanently, but I have literally never had as much fun playing AW in MCOC than when we didn’t have to stress about potion usage as much. I don’t think it’s viable to make that permanent as I said, but what it did do, is make it fair between FTP/ non spenders on AW and the players who can use units. The gap never felt as small as it did then.
I’m taking a break from high tier war after this season, I’m going to gold 4, because I go from war to war on 0 loyalty, I get my 40k and I spend it on a potion and a boost for the next war then I’m on 0 again. I started the season on 400k.
The stress from this has literally got me to quit high tier alliance gameplay. Some may see this as the sensible view and say “well of course, if you can’t hack it how is that Kabams fault? Stop spending so much loyalty, stop healing so much” But really it’s a result of the economy that Kabam are creating with this pittance of loyalty. Saying “just buy fewer potions and boosts” just misses the point of what AW used to be: fun and fair.
Yes, the economy is going the way of you’ll have to take more fights at whatever health you finish at, with less boosts. And yes, people will die more as a result. But all that does is drive a wedge between spenders and non spenders. You’ll get a much bigger gap where you need to spend to progress. You used to have the skilled players at the top, with alliances able to really place high if they play well. Now, there’s a second criteria. Have a metric ton of loyalty (not reasonable or sustainable) or use units.
The thing is, I completely agree that in an ideal world it would be fine to say “well we just don’t need to boost every fight or heal every fight anymore, just see where you naturally get to”. But, that would be great if top alliances couldn’t just unit their way through it.
Before the loyalty changes, AW was almost a level playing field for FTP and Paying players in terms of potions and loyalty. Now, it’s heavily weighted towards those who can spend. I don’t think that’s a positive change for the mode.
It’s now got to the point that you can only heal up once in a war and buy one or two boosts before you have a net negative loyalty gain. And that’s at the very top. All this does, is it separates out paying players in a way that it didn’t use to do.
I’m not saying revert back to compensation economy permanently, but I have literally never had as much fun playing AW in MCOC than when we didn’t have to stress about potion usage as much. I don’t think it’s viable to make that permanent as I said, but what it did do, is make it fair between FTP/ non spenders on AW and the players who can use units. The gap never felt as small as it did then.
I’m taking a break from high tier war after this season, I’m going to gold 4, because I go from war to war on 0 loyalty, I get my 40k and I spend it on a potion and a boost for the next war then I’m on 0 again. I started the season on 400k.
The stress from this has literally got me to quit high tier alliance gameplay. Some may see this as the sensible view and say “well of course, if you can’t hack it how is that Kabams fault? Stop spending so much loyalty, stop healing so much” But really it’s a result of the economy that Kabam are creating with this pittance of loyalty. Saying “just buy fewer potions and boosts” just misses the point of what AW used to be: fun and fair.
Yes, the economy is going the way of you’ll have to take more fights at whatever health you finish at, with less boosts. And yes, people will die more as a result. But all that does is drive a wedge between spenders and non spenders. You’ll get a much bigger gap where you need to spend to progress. You used to have the skilled players at the top, with alliances able to really place high if they play well. Now, there’s a second criteria. Have a metric ton of loyalty (not reasonable or sustainable) or use units.
As a point of reference, Bittersteel here and I both play in Expert tiers with alliances fairly competitive in the war scene, with 3k+ wr.
The thing is, I completely agree that in an ideal world it would be fine to say “well we just don’t need to boost every fight or heal every fight anymore, just see where you naturally get to”. But, that would be great if top alliances couldn’t just unit their way through it.
Before the loyalty changes, AW was almost a level playing field for FTP and Paying players in terms of potions and loyalty. Now, it’s heavily weighted towards those who can spend. I don’t think that’s a positive change for the mode.
It’s now got to the point that you can only heal up once in a war and buy one or two boosts before you have a net negative loyalty gain. And that’s at the very top. All this does, is it separates out paying players in a way that it didn’t use to do.
I’m not saying revert back to compensation economy permanently, but I have literally never had as much fun playing AW in MCOC than when we didn’t have to stress about potion usage as much. I don’t think it’s viable to make that permanent as I said, but what it did do, is make it fair between FTP/ non spenders on AW and the players who can use units. The gap never felt as small as it did then.
I’m taking a break from high tier war after this season, I’m going to gold 4, because I go from war to war on 0 loyalty, I get my 40k and I spend it on a potion and a boost for the next war then I’m on 0 again. I started the season on 400k.
The stress from this has literally got me to quit high tier alliance gameplay. Some may see this as the sensible view and say “well of course, if you can’t hack it how is that Kabams fault? Stop spending so much loyalty, stop healing so much” But really it’s a result of the economy that Kabam are creating with this pittance of loyalty. Saying “just buy fewer potions and boosts” just misses the point of what AW used to be: fun and fair.
Yes, the economy is going the way of you’ll have to take more fights at whatever health you finish at, with less boosts. And yes, people will die more as a result. But all that does is drive a wedge between spenders and non spenders. You’ll get a much bigger gap where you need to spend to progress. You used to have the skilled players at the top, with alliances able to really place high if they play well. Now, there’s a second criteria. Have a metric ton of loyalty (not reasonable or sustainable) or use units.
As a point of reference, Bittersteel here and I both play in Expert tiers with alliances fairly competitive in the war scene, with 3k+ wr.
So do I, and while I don't disagree with you completely I also don't agree with you completely.
The thing is, I completely agree that in an ideal world it would be fine to say “well we just don’t need to boost every fight or heal every fight anymore, just see where you naturally get to”. But, that would be great if top alliances couldn’t just unit their way through it.
Before the loyalty changes, AW was almost a level playing field for FTP and Paying players in terms of potions and loyalty. Now, it’s heavily weighted towards those who can spend. I don’t think that’s a positive change for the mode.
It’s now got to the point that you can only heal up once in a war and buy one or two boosts before you have a net negative loyalty gain. And that’s at the very top. All this does, is it separates out paying players in a way that it didn’t use to do.
I’m not saying revert back to compensation economy permanently, but I have literally never had as much fun playing AW in MCOC than when we didn’t have to stress about potion usage as much. I don’t think it’s viable to make that permanent as I said, but what it did do, is make it fair between FTP/ non spenders on AW and the players who can use units. The gap never felt as small as it did then.
I’m taking a break from high tier war after this season, I’m going to gold 4, because I go from war to war on 0 loyalty, I get my 40k and I spend it on a potion and a boost for the next war then I’m on 0 again. I started the season on 400k.
The stress from this has literally got me to quit high tier alliance gameplay. Some may see this as the sensible view and say “well of course, if you can’t hack it how is that Kabams fault? Stop spending so much loyalty, stop healing so much” But really it’s a result of the economy that Kabam are creating with this pittance of loyalty. Saying “just buy fewer potions and boosts” just misses the point of what AW used to be: fun and fair.
Yes, the economy is going the way of you’ll have to take more fights at whatever health you finish at, with less boosts. And yes, people will die more as a result. But all that does is drive a wedge between spenders and non spenders. You’ll get a much bigger gap where you need to spend to progress. You used to have the skilled players at the top, with alliances able to really place high if they play well. Now, there’s a second criteria. Have a metric ton of loyalty (not reasonable or sustainable) or use units.
As a point of reference, Bittersteel here and I both play in Expert tiers with alliances fairly competitive in the war scene, with 3k+ wr.
So do I, and while I don't disagree with you completely I also don't agree with you completely.
I think we’re all pretty close in stance to each other in this conversation. Personally, I think your view is correct on every count except when you consider the spending gap. I agree with your philosophy on using items. I just think spending changes that.
An AW where everyone has a level playing field, and you can only get as many potions and loyalty as the next alliance is fair. If you have very few potions, sure, everyone has the same issue.
But pre change, it was about as easy for FTP and P2P to get potions. Now it’s easy for P2W but hard for FTP. I think it’s pretty obvious there will be a gap
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
The thing is, I completely agree that in an ideal world it would be fine to say “well we just don’t need to boost every fight or heal every fight anymore, just see where you naturally get to”. But, that would be great if top alliances couldn’t just unit their way through it.
Before the loyalty changes, AW was almost a level playing field for FTP and Paying players in terms of potions and loyalty. Now, it’s heavily weighted towards those who can spend. I don’t think that’s a positive change for the mode.
It’s now got to the point that you can only heal up once in a war and buy one or two boosts before you have a net negative loyalty gain. And that’s at the very top. All this does, is it separates out paying players in a way that it didn’t use to do.
I’m not saying revert back to compensation economy permanently, but I have literally never had as much fun playing AW in MCOC than when we didn’t have to stress about potion usage as much. I don’t think it’s viable to make that permanent as I said, but what it did do, is make it fair between FTP/ non spenders on AW and the players who can use units. The gap never felt as small as it did then.
I’m taking a break from high tier war after this season, I’m going to gold 4, because I go from war to war on 0 loyalty, I get my 40k and I spend it on a potion and a boost for the next war then I’m on 0 again. I started the season on 400k.
The stress from this has literally got me to quit high tier alliance gameplay. Some may see this as the sensible view and say “well of course, if you can’t hack it how is that Kabams fault? Stop spending so much loyalty, stop healing so much” But really it’s a result of the economy that Kabam are creating with this pittance of loyalty. Saying “just buy fewer potions and boosts” just misses the point of what AW used to be: fun and fair.
Yes, the economy is going the way of you’ll have to take more fights at whatever health you finish at, with less boosts. And yes, people will die more as a result. But all that does is drive a wedge between spenders and non spenders. You’ll get a much bigger gap where you need to spend to progress. You used to have the skilled players at the top, with alliances able to really place high if they play well. Now, there’s a second criteria. Have a metric ton of loyalty (not reasonable or sustainable) or use units.
As a point of reference, Bittersteel here and I both play in Expert tiers with alliances fairly competitive in the war scene, with 3k+ wr.
So do I, and while I don't disagree with you completely I also don't agree with you completely.
I think we’re all pretty close in stance to each other in this conversation. Personally, I think your view is correct on every count except when you consider the spending gap. I agree with your philosophy on using items. I just think spending changes that.
An AW where everyone has a level playing field, and you can only get as many potions and loyalty as the next alliance is fair. If you have very few potions, sure, everyone has the same issue.
But pre change, it was about as easy for FTP and P2P to get potions. Now it’s easy for P2W but hard for FTP. I think it’s pretty obvious there will be a gap
I don't necessarily agree that it's massively different to the state it was prior to all the compensation. It was fairly common for people to use units during offseason and stock up on the bigger pots before the season. The lv4 glory pots already weren't cutting it at 6k health.
At least now (though I still don't think it's enough) the war pots give more health. I'm personally running at a net gain for loyalty this season, it's not a large gain but still in the black. Lots of people aren't though. Some of those people are still overusing boosts, some are just taking lots of fights, and some are just playing sloppy.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect to gain enough loyalty to sustain taking 10 fights every war and using boosts for every fight. It also gets a fair bit more complicated in the tiers below T1 that are still competitive as they gain even less loyalty but are still having to heal champs unlike the non competitive tiers where you can play war for probably years for less than the cost of one potion with the 40% revives.
I don't personally know where things "should" be set, but I don't think we're quite there yet. I just don't think we're as far off or things or as different as you guys seem to.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
This is kinda laughable when you consider the alternative is 15$ for a 3 min boost and 5$ for healing 14k health. The current healing and boosting (3min boosts) is broken, and this is not taking into account class boosts.
im no f2p, but this is riduculous when the currently loyalty does barely to cover any potion cost in war. Currently a win will let you heal 18k health, and run 1 3 minute boost. That massive disconnect unless you are willing to spend way way more for overpriced resources due to an artificial bottleneck created by a broken system, is ridiculous.
Expert wars always needed more time and resources, but literally making a shortage which can only be covered by money is kind of sad.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
Could maybe support the devs and staff at Kabam and spend a little money on this entertainment that we all enjoy so much. 🤔
Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.
What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
Could maybe support the devs and staff at Kabam and spend a little money on this entertainment that we all enjoy so much. 🤔
Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.
What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
This isn't the post I actually wanted to reapond to. Just a botched quote job
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
You're also ignoring the half a season worth of off-season wars between seasons that you're still gaining loyalty for. Maybe alliances that are in tight spots with loyalty will have to start making more of an effort to win those.
As soon as the announcement was made with the original change I started stocking up. I still have plenty of lv 5 pots, almost full on lv4s, and about 2/3 full on lv3s.
I agree that the values should probably be adjusted still. I just think the extent they need to be is being exaggerated.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
This isn’t the best stance because a majority of players who play this game are FTP. They just aren’t competitive. While the gap should exist, it shouldn’t be massive. Without the spenders the game wouldn’t exist but then the numbers wouldn’t be there for popularity in the game.
Mobile games are meant for the FTP and are sustained by the pay to win.
Potions should be cheaper, and the loyalty amount given needs to be increased, the gap between players should be there but not huge. The gap should be larger for skill because a lot of pay to win players would get MOPPED up by the free to play community. I’m not free to play but I also never whale out. Sigil and 1-2 deals a year.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
This isn’t the best stance because a majority of players who play this game are FTP. They just aren’t competitive. While the gap should exist, it shouldn’t be massive. Without the spenders the game wouldn’t exist but then the numbers wouldn’t be there for popularity in the game.
Mobile games are meant for the FTP and are sustained by the pay to win.
Potions should be cheaper, and the loyalty amount given needs to be increased, the gap between players should be there but not huge. The gap should be larger for skill because a lot of pay to win players would get MOPPED up by the free to play community. I’m not free to play but I also never whale out. Sigil and 1-2 deals a year.
Takes like this are even worse than the ones saying everything is fine. 😂
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
Could maybe support the devs and staff at Kabam and spend a little money on this entertainment that we all enjoy so much. 🤔
Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.
What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
What an unhelpful response.
Your solution to a gap between spenders and FTP is just to tell the non spenders to spend. Revolutionary.
well if war didn't always end up doing some shady stuff on node interactions, champ interactions whatever then this might not be so rampant. but you literally have to play against not only the nodes and defenders but also just how incredibly inconsistent the gameplay is.
that has cost me more than anything. getting a shock put on Nebula somehow. Sasquatch shrugging debuffs better than any Skill champion in the game (no it wasn't on any debuff immune node) , Emma dealing incinerate damage .. I mean it's just all kinds of examples that make it more stressful than it needs to be.
it's why i stopped competitive war and really just play for fun regardless of the deaths. because the mode is just so unreliable to me in terms of function that i can't be bothered for it to matter.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
Could maybe support the devs and staff at Kabam and spend a little money on this entertainment that we all enjoy so much. 🤔
Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.
What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
What an unhelpful response.
Your solution to a gap between spenders and FTP is just to tell the non spenders to spend. Revolutionary.
Given what was posted earlier about a boost costing 14$ and a pot costing 5 is there even a gap? (Both of those are translated from the unit cost btw) Not really, the gap would be between the extreme spenders and ftp unwilling to spend units/time to close that gap.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
Could maybe support the devs and staff at Kabam and spend a little money on this entertainment that we all enjoy so much. 🤔
Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.
What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
What an unhelpful response.
Your solution to a gap between spenders and FTP is just to tell the non spenders to spend. Revolutionary.
Well I actually provided 2 suggestions. Spend some or find fun within your tier. And it’s not just the boosts and pots for war but roster depth as well. How is a player suppose to help their BG on defense if their roster doesn’t have depth?
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
This isn’t the best stance because a majority of players who play this game are FTP. They just aren’t competitive. While the gap should exist, it shouldn’t be massive. Without the spenders the game wouldn’t exist but then the numbers wouldn’t be there for popularity in the game.
Mobile games are meant for the FTP and are sustained by the pay to win.
Potions should be cheaper, and the loyalty amount given needs to be increased, the gap between players should be there but not huge. The gap should be larger for skill because a lot of pay to win players would get MOPPED up by the free to play community. I’m not free to play but I also never whale out. Sigil and 1-2 deals a year.
This is the case with every mobile game. And just like in every other mobile game FTP enjoys the game with whatever is given to them, free, and those who want to be hyper competitive spend money. MCOC is actually one of the very few games where a FTP player can theoretically compete at a very high level if they’re willing to devote a vast amount of time in lieu of spending money; Arena.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
Could maybe support the devs and staff at Kabam and spend a little money on this entertainment that we all enjoy so much. 🤔
Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.
What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
What an unhelpful response.
Your solution to a gap between spenders and FTP is just to tell the non spenders to spend. Revolutionary.
Given what was posted earlier about a boost costing 14$ and a pot costing 5 is there even a gap? (Both of those are translated from the unit cost btw) Not really, the gap would be between the extreme spenders and ftp unwilling to spend units/time to close that gap.
The gap seems to be a myth from what I’m reading.
says the person with 1.2mill pvp wins. Your concept of time is quite otherworldly.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
Could maybe support the devs and staff at Kabam and spend a little money on this entertainment that we all enjoy so much. 🤔
Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.
What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
What an unhelpful response.
Your solution to a gap between spenders and FTP is just to tell the non spenders to spend. Revolutionary.
Well I actually provided 2 suggestions. Spend some or find fun within your tier. And it’s not just the boosts and pots for war but roster depth as well. How is a player suppose to help their BG on defense if their roster doesn’t have depth?
There are plenty of alliances that play the expert tier. What alliance is yours again?
I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the compensation, and I’ll be honest part of me would like it to stay to keep more alliances actively competing, but this season at least the masters bracket is still extremely tight, and it’s still a combination of alliances like @Worknprogress SSx1 who are properly chunky (incidentally gg today), and smaller alliances like my own who aren’t such big spenders.
Ultimately at T1 war, good planning is what counts more than anything else. My planner knows exactly what I’m very good at, what I’m ok at and what would be a risk for me to take. The fight loads are also consciously balanced so that some people aren’t taking 10 fights a war every war, I’ve taken 7/8 in a war and only 3 in another.
The grey boosts are a useful crutch if a war is very tight or if you’re going into a fight that’s a bit risky - eg KP on brute force/vivified can get a bit cheeky or a ps1 if you’re using CG - but their biggest use is to brute force bad matchups and that is where the planning separates alliances that have been able to punch up because of compensation and the consistent masters alliances.
Some alliances will consistently use the 6 hour boosts but most don’t use them as freely as people lower down seem to think. It’s more likely that players will switch suicides to decreased fight times and thus reduce risk.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
Could maybe support the devs and staff at Kabam and spend a little money on this entertainment that we all enjoy so much. 🤔
Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.
What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
What an unhelpful response.
Your solution to a gap between spenders and FTP is just to tell the non spenders to spend. Revolutionary.
Given what was posted earlier about a boost costing 14$ and a pot costing 5 is there even a gap? (Both of those are translated from the unit cost btw) Not really, the gap would be between the extreme spenders and ftp unwilling to spend units/time to close that gap.
The gap seems to be a myth from what I’m reading.
says the person with 1.2mill pvp wins. Your concept of time is quite otherworldly.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
Could maybe support the devs and staff at Kabam and spend a little money on this entertainment that we all enjoy so much. 🤔
Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.
What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
What an unhelpful response.
Your solution to a gap between spenders and FTP is just to tell the non spenders to spend. Revolutionary.
Well I actually provided 2 suggestions. Spend some or find fun within your tier. And it’s not just the boosts and pots for war but roster depth as well. How is a player suppose to help their BG on defense if their roster doesn’t have depth?
There are plenty of alliances that play the expert tier. What alliance is yours again?
Cannot refute points made, resorts to attempting to impugn character. Lawl.
This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
This isn’t the best stance because a majority of players who play this game are FTP. They just aren’t competitive. While the gap should exist, it shouldn’t be massive. Without the spenders the game wouldn’t exist but then the numbers wouldn’t be there for popularity in the game.
Mobile games are meant for the FTP and are sustained by the pay to win.
Potions should be cheaper, and the loyalty amount given needs to be increased, the gap between players should be there but not huge. The gap should be larger for skill because a lot of pay to win players would get MOPPED up by the free to play community. I’m not free to play but I also never whale out. Sigil and 1-2 deals a year.
Speaking as someone who’s in a T1 alliance and doesn’t really spend, I can say that our alliance is full of players who are happy to throw their money around and full of those who won’t. You want to know the one thing they all have in common?
They’re very good at the game. The whales that aren’t excellent at the game are sitting in huge AQ only alliances in P4-G2 relying on their rosters and pockets, these are also the players who are paying for me to play this game for free.
Comments
And isnt this about loyalty management? If you dont use 3 minute boosts, you get a net negative on loyalty because then you NEED to heal up. So you take a bullet either way, we pick our poison.
But, a win nets you only 60k loyalty, and loss nets you 40k. that is less than 2 potions, notwithstanding the class boosts/3min boosts. That is my qualm, nothing else. Im used to the difficulty, and thats what we play for. This loyalty economy is broken and there is far too less available, even to perennial winners.
Either the boost needs to be increased to like 10 minutes, or it should act more like AQ cross fights, where you get the boost for the next 3 fights (or until replaced by another boost) and time isn't a factor.
Before the loyalty changes, AW was almost a level playing field for FTP and Paying players in terms of potions and loyalty. Now, it’s heavily weighted towards those who can spend. I don’t think that’s a positive change for the mode.
It’s now got to the point that you can only heal up once in a war and buy one or two boosts before you have a net negative loyalty gain. And that’s at the very top. All this does, is it separates out paying players in a way that it didn’t use to do.
I’m not saying revert back to compensation economy permanently, but I have literally never had as much fun playing AW in MCOC than when we didn’t have to stress about potion usage as much. I don’t think it’s viable to make that permanent as I said, but what it did do, is make it fair between FTP/ non spenders on AW and the players who can use units. The gap never felt as small as it did then.
I’m taking a break from high tier war after this season, I’m going to gold 4, because I go from war to war on 0 loyalty, I get my 40k and I spend it on a potion and a boost for the next war then I’m on 0 again. I started the season on 400k.
The stress from this has literally got me to quit high tier alliance gameplay. Some may see this as the sensible view and say “well of course, if you can’t hack it how is that Kabams fault? Stop spending so much loyalty, stop healing so much” But really it’s a result of the economy that Kabam are creating with this pittance of loyalty. Saying “just buy fewer potions and boosts” just misses the point of what AW used to be: fun and fair.
Yes, the economy is going the way of you’ll have to take more fights at whatever health you finish at, with less boosts. And yes, people will die more as a result. But all that does is drive a wedge between spenders and non spenders. You’ll get a much bigger gap where you need to spend to progress. You used to have the skilled players at the top, with alliances able to really place high if they play well. Now, there’s a second criteria. Have a metric ton of loyalty (not reasonable or sustainable) or use units.
An AW where everyone has a level playing field, and you can only get as many potions and loyalty as the next alliance is fair. If you have very few potions, sure, everyone has the same issue.
But pre change, it was about as easy for FTP and P2P to get potions. Now it’s easy for P2W but hard for FTP. I think it’s pretty obvious there will be a gap
FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.
Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.
Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.
Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.
Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.
Just trying to give some perspective here.
Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.
Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
At least now (though I still don't think it's enough) the war pots give more health. I'm personally running at a net gain for loyalty this season, it's not a large gain but still in the black. Lots of people aren't though. Some of those people are still overusing boosts, some are just taking lots of fights, and some are just playing sloppy.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect to gain enough loyalty to sustain taking 10 fights every war and using boosts for every fight. It also gets a fair bit more complicated in the tiers below T1 that are still competitive as they gain even less loyalty but are still having to heal champs unlike the non competitive tiers where you can play war for probably years for less than the cost of one potion with the 40% revives.
I don't personally know where things "should" be set, but I don't think we're quite there yet. I just don't think we're as far off or things or as different as you guys seem to.
The current healing and boosting (3min boosts) is broken, and this is not taking into account class boosts.
im no f2p, but this is riduculous when the currently loyalty does barely to cover any potion cost in war. Currently a win will let you heal 18k health, and run 1 3 minute boost. That massive disconnect unless you are willing to spend way way more for overpriced resources due to an artificial bottleneck created by a broken system, is ridiculous.
Expert wars always needed more time and resources, but literally making a shortage which can only be covered by money is kind of sad.
Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.
What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
As soon as the announcement was made with the original change I started stocking up. I still have plenty of lv 5 pots, almost full on lv4s, and about 2/3 full on lv3s.
I agree that the values should probably be adjusted still. I just think the extent they need to be is being exaggerated.
Mobile games are meant for the FTP and are sustained by the pay to win.
Potions should be cheaper, and the loyalty amount given needs to be increased, the gap between players should be there but not huge. The gap should be larger for skill because a lot of pay to win players would get MOPPED up by the free to play community. I’m not free to play but I also never whale out. Sigil and 1-2 deals a year.
Your solution to a gap between spenders and FTP is just to tell the non spenders to spend. Revolutionary.
that has cost me more than anything. getting a shock put on Nebula somehow. Sasquatch shrugging debuffs better than any Skill champion in the game (no it wasn't on any debuff immune node) , Emma dealing incinerate damage .. I mean it's just all kinds of examples that make it more stressful than it needs to be.
it's why i stopped competitive war and really just play for fun regardless of the deaths. because the mode is just so unreliable to me in terms of function that i can't be bothered for it to matter.
The gap seems to be a myth from what I’m reading.
Ultimately at T1 war, good planning is what counts more than anything else. My planner knows exactly what I’m very good at, what I’m ok at and what would be a risk for me to take. The fight loads are also consciously balanced so that some people aren’t taking 10 fights a war every war, I’ve taken 7/8 in a war and only 3 in another.
The grey boosts are a useful crutch if a war is very tight or if you’re going into a fight that’s a bit risky - eg KP on brute force/vivified can get a bit cheeky or a ps1 if you’re using CG - but their biggest use is to brute force bad matchups and that is where the planning separates alliances that have been able to punch up because of compensation and the consistent masters alliances.
Some alliances will consistently use the 6 hour boosts but most don’t use them as freely as people lower down seem to think. It’s more likely that players will switch suicides to decreased fight times and thus reduce risk.
They’re very good at the game. The whales that aren’t excellent at the game are sitting in huge AQ only alliances in P4-G2 relying on their rosters and pockets, these are also the players who are paying for me to play this game for free.