**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

Aw is going to be only for Master tier

13»

Comments

  • pseudosanepseudosane Posts: 3,818 Guardian
    CoatHang3r said:

    pseudosane said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    BitterSteel said:

    MarcusUnread said:

    BitterSteel said:

    MarcusUnread said:

    This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?

    FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.

    Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.

    Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.

    Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.

    Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.

    Just trying to give some perspective here.

    Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.

    Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.

    Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
    Could maybe support the devs and staff at Kabam and spend a little money on this entertainment that we all enjoy so much. 🤔

    Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.

    What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
    What an unhelpful response.

    Your solution to a gap between spenders and FTP is just to tell the non spenders to spend. Revolutionary.
    Given what was posted earlier about a boost costing 14$ and a pot costing 5 is there even a gap? (Both of those are translated from the unit cost btw) Not really, the gap would be between the extreme spenders and ftp unwilling to spend units/time to close that gap.

    The gap seems to be a myth from what I’m reading.
    says the person with 1.2mill pvp wins. Your concept of time is quite otherworldly.
    MarcusUnread said:

    BitterSteel said:

    MarcusUnread said:

    BitterSteel said:

    MarcusUnread said:

    This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?

    FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.

    Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.

    Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.

    Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.

    Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.

    Just trying to give some perspective here.

    Yeah I agree, I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair.

    Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.

    Resource management can only go far when you only have 2 potions to manage.
    Could maybe support the devs and staff at Kabam and spend a little money on this entertainment that we all enjoy so much. 🤔

    Anyone playing this game has a smartphone and/or a tablet, but even if you absolutely cannot spend a single cent on this game well then the reality is there’s almost no t1 ally that will allow you to stay since keeping up and pulling your weight will be untenable.

    What I would do is grind hard in the highest war tier I could maintain. Hone my skills as a player, surround myself with players of similar caliber and simply enjoy war as it is.
    What an unhelpful response.

    Your solution to a gap between spenders and FTP is just to tell the non spenders to spend. Revolutionary.
    Well I actually provided 2 suggestions. Spend some or find fun within your tier. And it’s not just the boosts and pots for war but roster depth as well. How is a player suppose to help their BG on defense if their roster doesn’t have depth?
    There are plenty of alliances that play the expert tier. What alliance is yours again?
    Cannot refute points made, resorts to attempting to impugn character. Lawl.
    Nothing to refute, your takes are usually grossly wrong. Being an arena grinder myself, i know when to spot extreme views. So I'll gloss over yours, thank you.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    edited June 2022
    Sweet both of you talking about me instead of the topic. Awesome, focus on me it will distract you from the lies you tell yourselves and others. It won’t make them true it will just help you to maintain the illusion you've created. Splendid.
  • pseudosanepseudosane Posts: 3,818 Guardian
    Worknprogress said:

    pseudosane said:

    ItsDamien said:

    pseudosane said:

    xNig said:

    AW is a very interesting mode.

    What happens is, heavy boosting and heavy potting causes the entire alliance (assuming the entire alliance does that) to artificially inflate their war ratings (by winning wars that they would not have won if they didn’t boost and pot so extravagantly).

    When that happens, in order to sustain that inflated war rating, the boosting and potting will have to be continued, causing unnecessary strain on items.

    What can be done is NOT boost and heavy pot for two seasons and see where you land. That is the alliance’s “equilibrium war rating” where you have a 50% win rate.

    Then question yourself, by looking at the rank rewards, whether the extra rewards from your existing rank to the next rank is worth the amount of effort, items, stress and unhappiness incurred.

    If it isn’t, then don’t bother with spending excessive items for war. It’ll just result in a never-ending spiral of pain, complaints, finger pointing over deaths.

    Just take things easy at your equilibrium war rating and if you want to take things a level higher, change to an alliance with a higher war rank/rating, improve on your skill so your standard of play (aka equilibrium war rating) increases and can sustain that level of competition without spending items more than your loyalty intake can afford.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers

    Id agree, but certain boosts are needed for normal play. Basically you say is try your best and throw without healing, which isnt really a possibility in higher plat/ masters.
    We need to have a supply of loyalty which is enough to sustain/ can be farmed.
    EVery other resource can be farmed, heck even bought. Not loyalty. And what they have done isnt enough.
    Which is exactly what Nig is saying. In higher play and masters you’re probably having an inflated war rating due to winning some wars you definitely wouldn’t have if you hadn’t of boosted. You would drop down to lower brackets which is your Equilibrium War Rating.

    Also I’m not entirely sure which boosts are “Needed” for normal play. Boosts imo are used to make things easier, which is not “normal play”, because they give you things which aren’t usually there.
    Please come to higher tiers and see for yourself whether they are "needed".
    Boosts are things that are essential by all players at higher tiers. Nobody just "floats" to a tier on skill alone.
    There are PLENTY of fights that cannot be done without the 3min boosts which is why they are monetized so heavily.
    "inflated" war rating is nonsense, if everyone didnt have boosts then it would be an even playing field.

    basically what you wanna say is pay up or shut up, nothing more.
    While I get what you're saying, lots of players and officers have gotten used to using non ideal matchups to nuke down fights under the safety of invulns and power boosts. People are going to have to break that habit
    This is agree with. The war matches are tougher with bans/playstyles and all that jazz. But in the end, what i feel is that healing is far too expensive, for a necessity. Ive started looking at my 3min boosts usage and i only use when i absolutely have to, and assigning my players multiple fights with the same toon ONLY when necessary. But healing, which is now loyalty based, along with class boosts which is also loyalty based, causes a massive shortage from what is available.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Sweet both of you talking about em instead of the topic. Awesome, focus on me it will distract you from the lies you tell yourselves.

    If I’m absolutely honest, I just don’t really have enough respect for your opinion to really bother addressing it. You’re consistently rude to anyone and everyone, any answer I give you will likely be met with a consistently rude response.

    You give me a good reason I should care about the opinion of someone who calls people trash, psychopaths and sociopaths and I’ll reply to your point. Until then, have a great one.
    Yes I’m the one being rude here. What a joke.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Mauled said:

    Panchulon21 said:

    MarcusUnread said:

    This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?

    FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.

    Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.

    Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.

    Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.

    Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.

    Just trying to give some perspective here.

    This isn’t the best stance because a majority of players who play this game are FTP. They just aren’t competitive. While the gap should exist, it shouldn’t be massive. Without the spenders the game wouldn’t exist but then the numbers wouldn’t be there for popularity in the game.

    Mobile games are meant for the FTP and are sustained by the pay to win.

    Potions should be cheaper, and the loyalty amount given needs to be increased, the gap between players should be there but not huge. The gap should be larger for skill because a lot of pay to win players would get MOPPED up by the free to play community. I’m not free to play but I also never whale out. Sigil and 1-2 deals a year.
    Speaking as someone who’s in a T1 alliance and doesn’t really spend, I can say that our alliance is full of players who are happy to throw their money around and full of those who won’t. You want to know the one thing they all have in common?

    They’re very good at the game. The whales that aren’t excellent at the game are sitting in huge AQ only alliances in P4-G2 relying on their rosters and pockets, these are also the players who are paying for me to play this game for free.
    I've always found the take that spenders are all bad at the game and are only where they are bc they throw units/money at everything hilarious.

    And yeah, you guys kept it clean at the end and we most definitely did not.
  • MarcusUnreadMarcusUnread Posts: 143 ★
    Mauled said:

    Panchulon21 said:

    MarcusUnread said:

    This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?

    FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.

    Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.

    Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.

    Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.

    Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.

    Just trying to give some perspective here.

    This isn’t the best stance because a majority of players who play this game are FTP. They just aren’t competitive. While the gap should exist, it shouldn’t be massive. Without the spenders the game wouldn’t exist but then the numbers wouldn’t be there for popularity in the game.

    Mobile games are meant for the FTP and are sustained by the pay to win.

    Potions should be cheaper, and the loyalty amount given needs to be increased, the gap between players should be there but not huge. The gap should be larger for skill because a lot of pay to win players would get MOPPED up by the free to play community. I’m not free to play but I also never whale out. Sigil and 1-2 deals a year.
    Speaking as someone who’s in a T1 alliance and doesn’t really spend, I can say that our alliance is full of players who are happy to throw their money around and full of those who won’t. You want to know the one thing they all have in common?

    They’re very good at the game. The whales that aren’t excellent at the game are sitting in huge AQ only alliances in P4-G2 relying on their rosters and pockets, these are also the players who are paying for me to play this game for free.
    Yes. Skill is ultimately what will standout. I gladly spend but it’s always calculated, I don’t buy crystals. I purchase the Cav EQ completion offer each month and make those 30% boosts last through each war season. I purchase the big offers throughout the year. Typically my units will go to 1-2 featured grinds a year.

    All masteries unlocked, don’t run suicides. 5 r4s, 15830 prestige. Going on 240-2 over 3 seasons. Skill and a cohesive alliance is what keeps you in the show.

    Alliances like Asgard and Ny718 who champion the #1 and #2 spot in AQ because they have limitless spenders can’t compete in t1 with the top alliances. Despite how much you spend in war you still have to be highly skilled to compete at the highest level.

    Leviathans can only be carried for so long in t1 when they’re in a war focused alliance.
  • RapRap Posts: 3,194 ★★★★
    This was our last season. We have a bunch of newer players with limited rosters and with the community pushing certain champs? That is who they rank. Everybody has doom, and thing, and moleman etc.
    Diversity has been enough of a challenge.
    Ban one or two of their top ranked champs they basically will not be able to play. At least not effectively.
    So we are done. This is our final season of this no fun mess.
  • TheBair123TheBair123 Posts: 5,344 ★★★★★
    Now this might be an unpopular opinion, but I still enjoy AW. Maybe not as much as I used to, but I still find it fun. I think the most enjoyable part of it is that you’re fighting against an actual group of people where on loses and one wins. AQ doesn’t have that feature. It’s you against the AI. But in AW, you actually get to say “You lost, and I won.”
  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Posts: 2,605 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    Panchulon21 said:

    MarcusUnread said:

    This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?

    FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.

    Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.

    Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.

    Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.

    Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.

    Just trying to give some perspective here.

    This isn’t the best stance because a majority of players who play this game are FTP. They just aren’t competitive. While the gap should exist, it shouldn’t be massive. Without the spenders the game wouldn’t exist but then the numbers wouldn’t be there for popularity in the game.

    Mobile games are meant for the FTP and are sustained by the pay to win.

    Potions should be cheaper, and the loyalty amount given needs to be increased, the gap between players should be there but not huge. The gap should be larger for skill because a lot of pay to win players would get MOPPED up by the free to play community. I’m not free to play but I also never whale out. Sigil and 1-2 deals a year.
    Takes like this are even worse than the ones saying everything is fine. 😂
    You must be one of those who pay to win and aren’t good…
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,016 ★★★★★
    Rap said:

    This was our last season. We have a bunch of newer players with limited rosters and with the community pushing certain champs? That is who they rank. Everybody has doom, and thing, and moleman etc.
    Diversity has been enough of a challenge.
    Ban one or two of their top ranked champs they basically will not be able to play. At least not effectively.
    So we are done. This is our final season of this no fun mess.

    There's no reason to quit completely, just be casual about it and still get rewards. You can half-ass AW and still be in gold 2.

    With over 200 champs, diversity shouldn't be an issue.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Panchulon21 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Panchulon21 said:

    MarcusUnread said:

    This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?

    FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.

    Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.

    Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.

    Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.

    Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.

    Just trying to give some perspective here.

    This isn’t the best stance because a majority of players who play this game are FTP. They just aren’t competitive. While the gap should exist, it shouldn’t be massive. Without the spenders the game wouldn’t exist but then the numbers wouldn’t be there for popularity in the game.

    Mobile games are meant for the FTP and are sustained by the pay to win.

    Potions should be cheaper, and the loyalty amount given needs to be increased, the gap between players should be there but not huge. The gap should be larger for skill because a lot of pay to win players would get MOPPED up by the free to play community. I’m not free to play but I also never whale out. Sigil and 1-2 deals a year.
    Takes like this are even worse than the ones saying everything is fine. 😂
    You must be one of those who pay to win and aren’t good…
    Whatever you need to tell yourself to help you sleep at night.
  • TheFlashy20TheFlashy20 Posts: 32 ★
    Johnie13p said:

    Johnie13p said:

    TheFlashy20 said:

    Johnie13p said:

    TheFlashy20 said:

    Johnie13p said:

    TheFlashy20 said:

    Johnie13p said:

    TheFlashy20 said:

    Johnie13p said:

    I'm playing in plat3/4 for 4 years, every season until this last one was very enjoyable and fun and competitive,this season with the changes that @kabam made unfortunately it will be our last as an Alliance,we run out of potions and boosts,(most of our items used were from input bugs) plus mistakes happen to the best of the players, adding all that up ,I spend over 1 million loyalty this season (which isn't over) , healing to full boosted r4 champs is very expensive,to conclude my opinion, aw will be going down down in every season if you don't address this issue
    and it's very sad, thanks...

    Sure but everyone is going to experience this issue and have less items. Only people in Masters will still be spending units for items, so platinum will still be competitive just with more deaths.
    Nope I think ppl will stop playing aw because they don't want to be responsible for dragging downth alliances, that's the problem we are facing in our alliance,ppl said they will go to an aw free alliance,so that's what I mean aw will be going down and down on participation and competition, sadly again...
    AW is easily the best mode for endgame users. It’s competitive and there is strategy involved. I think AQ is pointless without AW, why get rank up materials if not for competitive modes like AW and Battlegrounds? It sounds like your in a lower level alliance so maybe your right, but I just think your over reacting. Maybe your not as skilled and get frustrated because you personally can’t take fights without boots, but all I see happening in AW for platinum 1 and lower is just more deaths. A lot of good alliances do relaxed AW and still get P3 and P2 rewards which are fair for not being as competitive.
    Your thoughts are wrong, I've done every content in the game without using unit man,so I think my skills aren't the problem.....
    That’s good, especially if your a long time player and never had to use units for 6.2 champion pre nerf or units for AOL, very impressive. I guess then I don’t understand why you can’t compete in high tier AW without boosts every fight? I also think that if you can’t do that, then you shouldn’t be competing in a Masters or P1 alliance. So P2 and P3 is probably better for you and like I said, many great alliances do p2 casually so that’s probably more your skill set when it comes to AW.
    Let me explain it further, I'm taking 10/11 fights per war ,power snack,mix master, footloose, conflictor power gain node and boss fights,I Solo most of the fights unless a mistake (or bug)happen, everyone and I mean everyone who wants to be sure for a solo always boosts up,my problem is that constantly healing r4 champs to ensure the the next fight is soloed is very expensive and the loyalty we earn doesn't recover the cost of healing,hope that clarify everything.
    P.S ....I only spend money 3- 4 times a year when good deals are worth it.
    Well there is your problem man! Haha maybe somebody else should pick up the slack, that’s crazy you take 10 fights every war. I agree with everything you are saying, I just don’t agree with your originally point of AW is going to be only for Masters. If you wanna take less fights, be in a good alliance fighting for a spot in Masters, with great AW planning so you can save some boosts, let me know.
    Maybe my thread tittle was wrong 👍
    @TheFlashy20 in game name please to reach you out?
    Johnie13p said:

    Johnie13p said:

    TheFlashy20 said:

    Johnie13p said:

    TheFlashy20 said:

    Johnie13p said:

    TheFlashy20 said:

    Johnie13p said:

    TheFlashy20 said:

    Johnie13p said:

    I'm playing in plat3/4 for 4 years, every season until this last one was very enjoyable and fun and competitive,this season with the changes that @kabam made unfortunately it will be our last as an Alliance,we run out of potions and boosts,(most of our items used were from input bugs) plus mistakes happen to the best of the players, adding all that up ,I spend over 1 million loyalty this season (which isn't over) , healing to full boosted r4 champs is very expensive,to conclude my opinion, aw will be going down down in every season if you don't address this issue
    and it's very sad, thanks...

    Sure but everyone is going to experience this issue and have less items. Only people in Masters will still be spending units for items, so platinum will still be competitive just with more deaths.
    Nope I think ppl will stop playing aw because they don't want to be responsible for dragging downth alliances, that's the problem we are facing in our alliance,ppl said they will go to an aw free alliance,so that's what I mean aw will be going down and down on participation and competition, sadly again...
    AW is easily the best mode for endgame users. It’s competitive and there is strategy involved. I think AQ is pointless without AW, why get rank up materials if not for competitive modes like AW and Battlegrounds? It sounds like your in a lower level alliance so maybe your right, but I just think your over reacting. Maybe your not as skilled and get frustrated because you personally can’t take fights without boots, but all I see happening in AW for platinum 1 and lower is just more deaths. A lot of good alliances do relaxed AW and still get P3 and P2 rewards which are fair for not being as competitive.
    Your thoughts are wrong, I've done every content in the game without using unit man,so I think my skills aren't the problem.....
    That’s good, especially if your a long time player and never had to use units for 6.2 champion pre nerf or units for AOL, very impressive. I guess then I don’t understand why you can’t compete in high tier AW without boosts every fight? I also think that if you can’t do that, then you shouldn’t be competing in a Masters or P1 alliance. So P2 and P3 is probably better for you and like I said, many great alliances do p2 casually so that’s probably more your skill set when it comes to AW.
    Let me explain it further, I'm taking 10/11 fights per war ,power snack,mix master, footloose, conflictor power gain node and boss fights,I Solo most of the fights unless a mistake (or bug)happen, everyone and I mean everyone who wants to be sure for a solo always boosts up,my problem is that constantly healing r4 champs to ensure the the next fight is soloed is very expensive and the loyalty we earn doesn't recover the cost of healing,hope that clarify everything.
    P.S ....I only spend money 3- 4 times a year when good deals are worth it.
    Well there is your problem man! Haha maybe somebody else should pick up the slack, that’s crazy you take 10 fights every war. I agree with everything you are saying, I just don’t agree with your originally point of AW is going to be only for Masters. If you wanna take less fights, be in a good alliance fighting for a spot in Masters, with great AW planning so you can save some boosts, let me know.
    Maybe my thread tittle was wrong 👍
    @TheFlashy20 in game name please to reach you out?
    A_Cay4 my guy. Looking forward to connecting. And your not wrong with some of the concerns you have, I just think a wait and see approach to how this plays out might be the best approach imo.
  • MauledMauled Posts: 3,957 Guardian
    Worknprogress said:

    Mauled said:

    Panchulon21 said:

    MarcusUnread said:

    This game costs money to develop, maintain, create, etc… Why should FTP players be on a level playing field as those players who choose to fund the ongoing evolution of the game?

    FTP players already get to participate and enjoy so much in this game as it is.

    Furthermore, as was already mentioned in here, resource management is integral in this game and war is no exception. Minimal spenders and probably even FTP players can compete in expert level AW, just little to no margin for error.

    Expert level t1 war is the big leagues just like MLB, NBA, NFL, pick your pro sport. And just like in any pro sport you have to perform at the highest level consistently or you aren’t gonna’ stay in the show.

    Can you solo fights consistently and provide value to your BG and alliance in t1 war as a FTP player? Sure.

    Can you maintain this with minimal boosting and potion usage? Highly unlikely. You’ll likely become a liability to 29 other players who boost higher, more often, and spend on potions. So then it becomes unfair to all your fellow mates since you choose not to spend on resources.

    Just trying to give some perspective here.

    This isn’t the best stance because a majority of players who play this game are FTP. They just aren’t competitive. While the gap should exist, it shouldn’t be massive. Without the spenders the game wouldn’t exist but then the numbers wouldn’t be there for popularity in the game.

    Mobile games are meant for the FTP and are sustained by the pay to win.

    Potions should be cheaper, and the loyalty amount given needs to be increased, the gap between players should be there but not huge. The gap should be larger for skill because a lot of pay to win players would get MOPPED up by the free to play community. I’m not free to play but I also never whale out. Sigil and 1-2 deals a year.
    Speaking as someone who’s in a T1 alliance and doesn’t really spend, I can say that our alliance is full of players who are happy to throw their money around and full of those who won’t. You want to know the one thing they all have in common?

    They’re very good at the game. The whales that aren’t excellent at the game are sitting in huge AQ only alliances in P4-G2 relying on their rosters and pockets, these are also the players who are paying for me to play this game for free.
    I've always found the take that spenders are all bad at the game and are only where they are bc they throw units/money at everything hilarious.

    And yeah, you guys kept it clean at the end and we most definitely did not.
    I’ve always assumed it’s jealousy veiled as righteousness tbh. There are some like BG who won’t spend in principle, others who can’t for whatever reason but there is a perception of purity of purpose that being F2P/low spending that I find somewhat grating.
  • naikavonnaikavon Posts: 298 ★★★
    Circling back to op's premise that many allys will quit aw, obviously we'll have to wait and see but my gut says otherwise.

    Players learn and adapt pretty quickly to changes. In other games I've played with ally vs ally or war and what have you, in order to manage resources they go down levels of competition, save up and then do a push when everyone in the ally is ready.

    If kabam doesn't adjust the loyalty awarded, I can see this becoming a thing in this game too. So while, it may change the approach of pushing every season, for certain ally I think, even under the current levels of loyalty being awarded it will still be doable. It just requires a change in mindset.


    Never underestimate the players though, they'll figure it out.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 7,248 ★★★★★
    My view is, as long as you’re spending more on AW than what you’re inputting (with regards to loyalty, units, whatever), you’re in an alliance/tier that has an inflated war rating with respect to yourself.

    I’m in Tier 2/3 and P3 for 95% of my seasons since it was introduced. Masters once and P1/2 a few times when my entire alliance has excess expiring items. Very comfortable in P3 without spending an occasional revive/pot.
  • Hilbert_unbeatable2Hilbert_unbeatable2 Posts: 804 ★★★
    pseudosane said:

    xNig said:

    AW is a very interesting mode.

    What happens is, heavy boosting and heavy potting causes the entire alliance (assuming the entire alliance does that) to artificially inflate their war ratings (by winning wars that they would not have won if they didn’t boost and pot so extravagantly).

    When that happens, in order to sustain that inflated war rating, the boosting and potting will have to be continued, causing unnecessary strain on items.

    What can be done is NOT boost and heavy pot for two seasons and see where you land. That is the alliance’s “equilibrium war rating” where you have a 50% win rate.

    Then question yourself, by looking at the rank rewards, whether the extra rewards from your existing rank to the next rank is worth the amount of effort, items, stress and unhappiness incurred.

    If it isn’t, then don’t bother with spending excessive items for war. It’ll just result in a never-ending spiral of pain, complaints, finger pointing over deaths.

    Just take things easy at your equilibrium war rating and if you want to take things a level higher, change to an alliance with a higher war rank/rating, improve on your skill so your standard of play (aka equilibrium war rating) increases and can sustain that level of competition without spending items more than your loyalty intake can afford.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers

    Id agree, but certain boosts are needed for normal play. Basically you say is try your best and throw without healing, which isnt really a possibility in higher plat/ masters.
    We need to have a supply of loyalty which is enough to sustain/ can be farmed.
    EVery other resource can be farmed, heck even bought. Not loyalty. And what they have done isnt enough.
    They must boost loyalty rewarded
  • Hilbert_unbeatable2Hilbert_unbeatable2 Posts: 804 ★★★
    Mauled said:

    pseudosane said:

    xNig said:

    AW is a very interesting mode.

    What happens is, heavy boosting and heavy potting causes the entire alliance (assuming the entire alliance does that) to artificially inflate their war ratings (by winning wars that they would not have won if they didn’t boost and pot so extravagantly).

    When that happens, in order to sustain that inflated war rating, the boosting and potting will have to be continued, causing unnecessary strain on items.

    What can be done is NOT boost and heavy pot for two seasons and see where you land. That is the alliance’s “equilibrium war rating” where you have a 50% win rate.

    Then question yourself, by looking at the rank rewards, whether the extra rewards from your existing rank to the next rank is worth the amount of effort, items, stress and unhappiness incurred.

    If it isn’t, then don’t bother with spending excessive items for war. It’ll just result in a never-ending spiral of pain, complaints, finger pointing over deaths.

    Just take things easy at your equilibrium war rating and if you want to take things a level higher, change to an alliance with a higher war rank/rating, improve on your skill so your standard of play (aka equilibrium war rating) increases and can sustain that level of competition without spending items more than your loyalty intake can afford.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers

    Id agree, but certain boosts are needed for normal play. Basically you say is try your best and throw without healing, which isnt really a possibility in higher plat/ masters.
    We need to have a supply of loyalty which is enough to sustain/ can be farmed.
    EVery other resource can be farmed, heck even bought. Not loyalty. And what they have done isnt enough.
    Not necessarily tbh. I’ve had a fair few itemless wars across the last couple of seasons and that’s playing in T1 war. A lot of AW comes down to planning - your officer(s) laying out a good plan - and you personally having a plan about how you’re going to approach each matchup you’re assigned.
    Obviously the officer who’s planning my bg is very good at what they do and they’re planning for good players so the planning that we get is going to be more coherent than lower tiers.

    From what I’ve seen the vast majority of deaths fall into two categories, both of which are easily correctable.
    - Poor planning - not knowing how certain champion/nodes interact and assigning a poor champion to take the node.
    - Poor execution - getting smacked in the face enough times to die.

    I think that the 40% revive is a big improvement and I do think that there’s more that should be done for loyalty access.
    Agree with you, in 1st half of this season we had bunch of lazy players who didn't pick their lane, lower players not seeking advice and simply rushing on their own...it was a disaster...no co-operation... Even such people weren't placing the defenders told and some skipping defence setting

    Was pretty pissed off at that time. Leader and our officers had enough of it...booted the junk and got really active players who are cooperative and now really enjoying war, setting defence and planning for my bg.
  • Hilbert_unbeatable2Hilbert_unbeatable2 Posts: 804 ★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    Johnie13p said:

    TheFlashy20 said:

    Johnie13p said:

    TheFlashy20 said:

    Johnie13p said:

    TheFlashy20 said:

    Johnie13p said:

    I'm playing in plat3/4 for 4 years, every season until this last one was very enjoyable and fun and competitive,this season with the changes that @kabam made unfortunately it will be our last as an Alliance,we run out of potions and boosts,(most of our items used were from input bugs) plus mistakes happen to the best of the players, adding all that up ,I spend over 1 million loyalty this season (which isn't over) , healing to full boosted r4 champs is very expensive,to conclude my opinion, aw will be going down down in every season if you don't address this issue
    and it's very sad, thanks...

    Sure but everyone is going to experience this issue and have less items. Only people in Masters will still be spending units for items, so platinum will still be competitive just with more deaths.
    Nope I think ppl will stop playing aw because they don't want to be responsible for dragging downth alliances, that's the problem we are facing in our alliance,ppl said they will go to an aw free alliance,so that's what I mean aw will be going down and down on participation and competition, sadly again...
    AW is easily the best mode for endgame users. It’s competitive and there is strategy involved. I think AQ is pointless without AW, why get rank up materials if not for competitive modes like AW and Battlegrounds? It sounds like your in a lower level alliance so maybe your right, but I just think your over reacting. Maybe your not as skilled and get frustrated because you personally can’t take fights without boots, but all I see happening in AW for platinum 1 and lower is just more deaths. A lot of good alliances do relaxed AW and still get P3 and P2 rewards which are fair for not being as competitive.
    Your thoughts are wrong, I've done every content in the game without using unit man,so I think my skills aren't the problem.....
    That’s good, especially if your a long time player and never had to use units for 6.2 champion pre nerf or units for AOL, very impressive. I guess then I don’t understand why you can’t compete in high tier AW without boosts every fight? I also think that if you can’t do that, then you shouldn’t be competing in a Masters or P1 alliance. So P2 and P3 is probably better for you and like I said, many great alliances do p2 casually so that’s probably more your skill set when it comes to AW.
    Let me explain it further, I'm taking 10/11 fights per war ,power snack,mix master, footloose, conflictor power gain node and boss fights,I Solo most of the fights unless a mistake (or bug)happen, everyone and I mean everyone who wants to be sure for a solo always boosts up,my problem is that constantly healing r4 champs to ensure the the next fight is soloed is very expensive and the loyalty we earn doesn't recover the cost of healing,hope that clarify everything.
    P.S ....I only spend money 3- 4 times a year when good deals are worth it.
    One person taking 10-11 fights every war is just poor planning and fight distribution.
    Agree. I mean occasionally get 2 digit fights is understandable but every war? That's indication that u need a better ally
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,303 ★★★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    The thing is, I completely agree that in an ideal world it would be fine to say “well we just don’t need to boost every fight or heal every fight anymore, just see where you naturally get to”. But, that would be great if top alliances couldn’t just unit their way through it.

    Before the loyalty changes, AW was almost a level playing field for FTP and Paying players in terms of potions and loyalty. Now, it’s heavily weighted towards those who can spend. I don’t think that’s a positive change for the mode.

    It’s now got to the point that you can only heal up once in a war and buy one or two boosts before you have a net negative loyalty gain. And that’s at the very top. All this does, is it separates out paying players in a way that it didn’t use to do.

    I’m not saying revert back to compensation economy permanently, but I have literally never had as much fun playing AW in MCOC than when we didn’t have to stress about potion usage as much. I don’t think it’s viable to make that permanent as I said, but what it did do, is make it fair between FTP/ non spenders on AW and the players who can use units. The gap never felt as small as it did then.

    I’m taking a break from high tier war after this season, I’m going to gold 4, because I go from war to war on 0 loyalty, I get my 40k and I spend it on a potion and a boost for the next war then I’m on 0 again. I started the season on 400k.

    The stress from this has literally got me to quit high tier alliance gameplay. Some may see this as the sensible view and say “well of course, if you can’t hack it how is that Kabams fault? Stop spending so much loyalty, stop healing so much” But really it’s a result of the economy that Kabam are creating with this pittance of loyalty. Saying “just buy fewer potions and boosts” just misses the point of what AW used to be: fun and fair.

    Yes, the economy is going the way of you’ll have to take more fights at whatever health you finish at, with less boosts. And yes, people will die more as a result. But all that does is drive a wedge between spenders and non spenders. You’ll get a much bigger gap where you need to spend to progress. You used to have the skilled players at the top, with alliances able to really place high if they play well. Now, there’s a second criteria. Have a metric ton of loyalty (not reasonable or sustainable) or use units.

    While I am not averse to a change in potion costs or rate of loyalty generation, the point you are making is that FTP cannot catch up with spenders. This has always been the case. And you and many others were saying the same when kabam dropped paragon title and almost all day 1 paragons were spenders. Spenders get an incentive in all aspects of the game and now it includes war.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    BitterSteel said:

    The thing is, I completely agree that in an ideal world it would be fine to say “well we just don’t need to boost every fight or heal every fight anymore, just see where you naturally get to”. But, that would be great if top alliances couldn’t just unit their way through it.

    Before the loyalty changes, AW was almost a level playing field for FTP and Paying players in terms of potions and loyalty. Now, it’s heavily weighted towards those who can spend. I don’t think that’s a positive change for the mode.

    It’s now got to the point that you can only heal up once in a war and buy one or two boosts before you have a net negative loyalty gain. And that’s at the very top. All this does, is it separates out paying players in a way that it didn’t use to do.

    I’m not saying revert back to compensation economy permanently, but I have literally never had as much fun playing AW in MCOC than when we didn’t have to stress about potion usage as much. I don’t think it’s viable to make that permanent as I said, but what it did do, is make it fair between FTP/ non spenders on AW and the players who can use units. The gap never felt as small as it did then.

    I’m taking a break from high tier war after this season, I’m going to gold 4, because I go from war to war on 0 loyalty, I get my 40k and I spend it on a potion and a boost for the next war then I’m on 0 again. I started the season on 400k.

    The stress from this has literally got me to quit high tier alliance gameplay. Some may see this as the sensible view and say “well of course, if you can’t hack it how is that Kabams fault? Stop spending so much loyalty, stop healing so much” But really it’s a result of the economy that Kabam are creating with this pittance of loyalty. Saying “just buy fewer potions and boosts” just misses the point of what AW used to be: fun and fair.

    Yes, the economy is going the way of you’ll have to take more fights at whatever health you finish at, with less boosts. And yes, people will die more as a result. But all that does is drive a wedge between spenders and non spenders. You’ll get a much bigger gap where you need to spend to progress. You used to have the skilled players at the top, with alliances able to really place high if they play well. Now, there’s a second criteria. Have a metric ton of loyalty (not reasonable or sustainable) or use units.

    While I am not averse to a change in potion costs or rate of loyalty generation, the point you are making is that FTP cannot catch up with spenders. This has always been the case. And you and many others were saying the same when kabam dropped paragon title and almost all day 1 paragons were spenders. Spenders get an incentive in all aspects of the game and now it includes war.
    Actually that’s not the point I’m making at all, and in some other replies I’ve made that pretty clear. Like here: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2112099#Comment_2112099
    “I don’t think the gap should be nonexistent, I just think that at the moment as a FTP player you get 2 potions and one boost before you start going net negative loyalty. I don’t think that’s fair. Nobody is saying there should be no gap, just that the current gap is unsustainable for a fun mode.”


    I’m fine with spenders having the advantage and actively encourage that. However, this (as with most things in life) is not binary. It is not the case that all advantages to spenders no matter how big are good. It’s a question of scale.

    In this case, being able to buy 2 potions and a boost each war or you have a net negative loyalty to me, is too much of a disadvantage for non spenders.
  • PussaleyPussaley Posts: 54 ★
    It depends on which tier you play. But the main problem is the input problems… it gotta be solved asap.
  • 1Replacement_Killa11Replacement_Killa1 Posts: 8 ★
    I agree with OP

    This AW has been straight non sense.
    Can’t top off your champ with health from the good old glory days. Now to top off health cost a lot of loyalty.
    Kabam saw that they wasn’t making money so they took that AW health and revive and moved it to loyalty where we can’t acquire it enough.
    You was able to stock up on health potion from glory and top off your champ at 6000 health.

    Now lots of dying in war and can’t top off health. Basically you go in what you have and die than revive with that team health potion at 40% that cost 1 loyalty point. It was all b.s..
    Only for spenders who don’t care will have no problem.
    This new thing was a move from Kabam seeing that AW was not milking it in. And they had to change it up.

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