Am I the only Paragon...

Am I the only Paragon watching these July 4th prediction videos thinking, "If this is right, Kabam's about to save me a lotta money."

Comments

naikavon

I've already made up my mind. I literally do not care what is offered for the 4th, I'm not buying.

There has been a ton of money sunk in this game by players and the results speak for themselves. Horrible customer service, shoddy game play for a year, and no reasonable compensation for player troubles.

There's nothing offer wise to entice me. Do something about the three above... and then we'll talk. Until then, no soup for you!

The_Chump

I can't see them shafting TB players with a big disparity in offers. There aren't that many paragon players yet.
Yep true im also believing this because if kabam wants to make more money they should focus on thronebreaker because there is not much paragon players i guess so if u want more money go for thronebreaker or less go for paragon offers

Perhaps you were not around when TB was first introduced. TB was introduced the month before Black friday of 2020 and the disparity between cav and TB deals were significant.

One of these are TB and the other is Cav, one month following the introduction of TB.

The_Chump

Let's be real. This will be the first opportunity they have to offer a difference in deals. I don't think it will be a vast difference, any more than Cav vs. TB. However, there will be more offered for Paragon. I think that much is a safe bet.

You dont think there was a vast difference between TB and cav, when TB cane out? See above 10K deal and tell me that's not a huge difference

L0TUS_MANTIS

Coming soon: Relics

GroundedWisdom

Let's be real. This will be the first opportunity they have to offer a difference in deals. I don't think it will be a vast difference, any more than Cav vs. TB. However, there will be more offered for Paragon. I think that much is a safe bet.
You dont think there was a vast difference between TB and cav, when TB cane out? See above 10K deal and tell me that's not a huge difference

I don't call it a VAST difference, no. The whole point of these is to offer Resources that apply to the majority of people at that stage. Granted, the Cats and the Gem are quite a step up, but if they were completely identical, there would be no point in separation. I suppose it depends on what you call vast.
It's always gone that way. The things people are searching for one level below are usually offered to the highest. Otherwise there would be less motivation to push forward.

GroundedWisdom

Other than the T5CCs and Sigs, there's not a great difference. An R2 6* is virtually the same as an R5 5*, save for Base Stats.

The_Chump

Other than the T5CCs and Sigs, there's not a great difference. An R2 6* is virtually the same as an R5 5*, save for Base Stats.

So if they are virtually the same, tell me, if kabam offers you a 6* r1-r2 gem or 2 5*r4-r5 gem, which would you take?

Guess there is a pretty big difference, huh

GroundedWisdom

Other than the T5CCs and Sigs, there's not a great difference. An R2 6* is virtually the same as an R5 5*, save for Base Stats.
So if they are virtually the same, tell me, if kabam offers you a 6* r1-r2 gem or 2 5*r4-r5 gem, which would you take?

Guess there is a pretty big difference, huh

They didn't offer anyone both, if you're discounting the people who went up during the Offer.
Yes, there's a difference. The Stats aren't that great of a difference between the two to call it vast. Plus, at that time, 5*s were a lot easier to Sig.

GroundedWisdom

So, to answer your question, it would depend on what I had in my Roster. I wouldn't be opposed to taking an R5 over an R2 if I had low-no Sig 6*s.

GroundedWisdom

Hell, 6*s are still harder to comparably Sig for most Players.

unknown

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KennyPL

No offer i would pay for (even if they gave me a r3->r4 gem) with the game working like it has for the past 8-12 months.
Self dignity > curent state of MCOC

The_Chump

So, to answer your question, it would depend on what I had in my Roster. I wouldn't be opposed to taking an R5 over an R2 if I had low-no Sig 6*s.

LOL I like how you tried side stepping the question. To put it bluntly, no one is valuing a 5* rank up gem over a 6* one, not even you. Yes, a 5*r5 and 6*r2 have comparable stats, but they, themselves are not comparable. One is maxed out, while the other can continue to rank and level up. If 6*s topped out at r2 your argument would hold weight.

To add to this, the 6* rank up gem is already worth 1 more t5b, 1 more t2a, 7 more t4b, and 6 less t1a than the 5*. The 6* does not require previous rank ups to be usable (the 5* has to be ranked to 4 first). FYI T5b and t2a were much more rare in 2020 as well.

Also, although their base stats are comparable, they actually are not similar in story mode, when you factor in act 7s, and soon act 8s, 6* node.

Other than the T5CCs and Sigs, there's not a great difference. An R2 6* is virtually the same as an R5 5*, save for Base Stats.

Also, 1/2 t5cc by itself was a huge difference in the deal, between TB and cav. That is pretty much half of the requirement to become TB (seeming as many already completed act 6 and just needed 1 6r3). This would be equivalent to Paragon being given 1.5 6r4 (or 4.5 t6b and t3a)

Skiddy212

As a thronebreaker, i plan on saving my money. I bet most of the deals will include cavalier nexus and 5 star shards.

The only way i'll consider is if there is a easily/cheap obtainable 6 star awakening gem

The_Chump

As a thronebreaker, i plan on saving my money. I bet most of the deals will include cavalier nexus and 5 star shards.

The only way i'll consider is if there is a easily/cheap obtainable 6 star awakening gem

IDK about an easy, cheap 6* AG, but I can't imagine Kabam would have the stones to put 5* shards in any of the TB deals

unknown

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hundo_percent

As a thronebreaker, i plan on saving my money. I bet most of the deals will include cavalier nexus and 5 star shards.

The only way i'll consider is if there is a easily/cheap obtainable 6 star awakening gem

I mean, Cavalier had 6* shards last year, sooo you may be a little off.

GroundedWisdom

So, to answer your question, it would depend on what I had in my Roster. I wouldn't be opposed to taking an R5 over an R2 if I had low-no Sig 6*s.
LOL I like how you tried side stepping the question. To put it bluntly, no one is valuing a 5* rank up gem over a 6* one, not even you. Yes, a 5*r5 and 6*r2 have comparable stats, but they, themselves are not comparable. One is maxed out, while the other can continue to rank and level up. If 6*s topped out at r2 your argument would hold weight.

To add to this, the 6* rank up gem is already worth 1 more t5b, 1 more t2a, 7 more t4b, and 6 less t1a than the 5*. The 6* does not require previous rank ups to be usable (the 5* has to be ranked to 4 first). FYI T5b and t2a were much more rare in 2020 as well.

Also, although their base stats are comparable, they actually are not similar in story mode, when you factor in act 7s, and soon act 8s, 6* node.
Other than the T5CCs and Sigs, there's not a great difference. An R2 6* is virtually the same as an R5 5*, save for Base Stats.
Also, 1/2 t5cc by itself was a huge difference in the deal, between TB and cav. That is pretty much half of the requirement to become TB (seeming as many already completed act 6 and just needed 1 6r3). This would be equivalent to Paragon being given 1.5 6r4 (or 4.5 t6b and t3a)

You're removing the context. At the time TB was introduced, it was a limited amount of people having an R3, and continuing to Rank them wasn't the issue. The issue was people wanted the T5CCs at Cav so they could hit TB. Context.

GroundedWisdom

If you're looking at an R2 Gem vs. an R5 Gem, they have comparable value.

unknown

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GroundedWisdom

If you're looking at an R2 Gem vs. an R5 Gem, they have comparable value.
The amount of whine from everyone when the cav vs. thronebreaker deals was huge.

Of course. They wanted the T5CCs for TB. That was the subject of contention for the requirements.

Lovejoy72

If you're looking at an R2 Gem vs. an R5 Gem, they have comparable value.
The amount of whine from everyone when the cav vs. thronebreaker deals was huge.

As a thronebreaker, I’ve been training all year to beat past whining records. I’ve been complaining to my wife about local ordinances and politics, berating my staff over people not picking up shifts, and watching my 15-year-old to find where she gets her inspiration (she currently holds the whining title in her weight division).

Should be epic.

The_Chump

If you're looking at an R2 Gem vs. an R5 Gem, they have comparable value.

The stats may be comparable but the value is nowhere near.

To put it bluntly, no one is valuing a 5* rank up gem equal to a 6* one, not even you. Yes, a 5*r5 and 6*r2 have comparable stats, but they, themselves are not comparable. One is maxed out, while the other can continue to rank and level up. If 6*s topped out at r2 your argument would hold weight.

To add to this, the 6* rank up gem is already worth 1 more t5b, 1 more t2a, 7 more t4b, and 6 less t1a than the 5*. The 6* does not require previous rank ups to be usable (the 5* has to be ranked to 4 first). FYI T5b and t2a were much more rare in 2020 as well.

GroundedWisdom

If you're looking at an R2 Gem vs. an R5 Gem, they have comparable value.
The stats may be comparable but the value is nowhere near.

To put it bluntly, no one is valuing a 5* rank up gem equal to a 6* one, not even you. Yes, a 5*r5 and 6*r2 have comparable stats, but they, themselves are not comparable. One is maxed out, while the other can continue to rank and level up. If 6*s topped out at r2 your argument would hold weight.

To add to this, the 6* rank up gem is already worth 1 more t5b, 1 more t2a, 7 more t4b, and 6 less t1a than the 5*. The 6* does not require previous rank ups to be usable (the 5* has to be ranked to 4 first). FYI T5b and t2a were much more rare in 2020 as well.

Their value is the outcome. Not the Resources you WOULD have used. You can't split the Gem into individual Resources.
Either way, I'm not digressing. You asked what I would choose, and I outlined how the value was similar.

GroundedWisdom

Given the choice between the two then, I would have waged my decision based on what was in my Roster, and how long it would have taken me to get to R3, which wasn't that easy then. They're more commonplace now, but it's taken a while.

The_Chump

If you're looking at an R2 Gem vs. an R5 Gem, they have comparable value.
The stats may be comparable but the value is nowhere near.

To put it bluntly, no one is valuing a 5* rank up gem equal to a 6* one, not even you. Yes, a 5*r5 and 6*r2 have comparable stats, but they, themselves are not comparable. One is maxed out, while the other can continue to rank and level up. If 6*s topped out at r2 your argument would hold weight.

To add to this, the 6* rank up gem is already worth 1 more t5b, 1 more t2a, 7 more t4b, and 6 less t1a than the 5*. The 6* does not require previous rank ups to be usable (the 5* has to be ranked to 4 first). FYI T5b and t2a were much more rare in 2020 as well.
Their value is the outcome. Not the Resources you WOULD have used. You can't split the Gem into individual Resources.
Either way, I'm not digressing. You asked what I would choose, and I outlined how the value was similar.

You outlined how the value was similar by saying that a finished product (5*r5) has similar stats to something that will, even if it would take a while, continue to grow and become much more powerful.

No one, with the slightest common sense and even just a little game knowledge believes a 5* rank up holds the same value as a 6* rank up, and no one who is cav or higher would prefer getting a5* rank up. Hell, most uncollected would probably rather the 6* rank up.

Either you're just arguing to argue, likely make terrible ingame decisions

GroundedWisdom

If you're looking at an R2 Gem vs. an R5 Gem, they have comparable value.
The stats may be comparable but the value is nowhere near.

To put it bluntly, no one is valuing a 5* rank up gem equal to a 6* one, not even you. Yes, a 5*r5 and 6*r2 have comparable stats, but they, themselves are not comparable. One is maxed out, while the other can continue to rank and level up. If 6*s topped out at r2 your argument would hold weight.

To add to this, the 6* rank up gem is already worth 1 more t5b, 1 more t2a, 7 more t4b, and 6 less t1a than the 5*. The 6* does not require previous rank ups to be usable (the 5* has to be ranked to 4 first). FYI T5b and t2a were much more rare in 2020 as well.
Their value is the outcome. Not the Resources you WOULD have used. You can't split the Gem into individual Resources.
Either way, I'm not digressing. You asked what I would choose, and I outlined how the value was similar.
You outlined how the value was similar by saying that a finished product (5*r5) has similar stats to something that will, even if it would take a while, continue to grow and become much more powerful.

No one, with the slightest common sense and even just a little game knowledge believes a 5* rank up holds the same value as a 6* rank up, and no one who is cav or higher would prefer getting a5* rank up. Hell, most uncollected would probably rather the 6* rank up.

Either you're just arguing to argue, likely make terrible ingame decisions

A while...at the time, the availability of T5CCs was a snail's pace. As were 6* Sigs and Dups. At least for those who weren't TB the moment it was released.
I'm not arguing for no reason. You asked what I would choose and I gave my reasoning.

DNA3000

If you're looking at an R2 Gem vs. an R5 Gem, they have comparable value.

While an individual player might value them that way, that's not how the game economy values them.

In general, it is inevitable that people are going to think they are getting "shafted" by the offers, because the offers are designed to be relevant to the progression tier. People think "relevant" means "give me what I need to move up a tier" but that's not the definition of relevance. Relevance refers to the kinds of rewards players of that progress tier typically receive. It doesn't mean the average reward they receive, it means the rewards are valued against what they receive.

A Cavalier player can earn a range of rewards, from low to high. A TB can also earn a range of rewards, from low to high. But that range is higher than the Cav player. The typical Paragon is likely also earning a range of rewards from low to high, but that range is, on average, higher than the typical TB. The offers are going to target some qualitative value. But "pretty good" for Cav is going to be lower than "pretty good" for TB. "Pretty good" for Paragon is going to be significantly higher than "pretty good" for TB. It has to be for the relative value to be similar.

So the offers targeting the tier above you have to be a lot higher than yours, because that's the only way for them to have the same relative value to *them* compared to you. That's where most of the progression jealousy comes from. People believe they deserve some fraction of the higher tiers, but that's not how their tier is constructed. They think they deserve the specific kinds of rewards that will get them to the next higher tier, which tends to be coincidentally what they are handing out like candy at higher tiers explicitly because those tiers no longer need them to reach a higher progress tier. This is one of the many things that is totally obvious, but also totally defies people's expectations.

But yeah, I'll take the R2 over the R5 any day, even though I do still use R5s.

GroundedWisdom

If you're looking at an R2 Gem vs. an R5 Gem, they have comparable value.
While an individual player might value them that way, that's not how the game economy values them.

In general, it is inevitable that people are going to think they are getting "shafted" by the offers, because the offers are designed to be relevant to the progression tier. People think "relevant" means "give me what I need to move up a tier" but that's not the definition of relevance. Relevance refers to the kinds of rewards players of that progress tier typically receive. It doesn't mean the average reward they receive, it means the rewards are valued against what they receive.

A Cavalier player can earn a range of rewards, from low to high. A TB can also earn a range of rewards, from low to high. But that range is higher than the Cav player. The typical Paragon is likely also earning a range of rewards from low to high, but that range is, on average, higher than the typical TB. The offers are going to target some qualitative value. But "pretty good" for Cav is going to be lower than "pretty good" for TB. "Pretty good" for Paragon is going to be significantly higher than "pretty good" for TB. It has to be for the relative value to be similar.

So the offers targeting the tier above you have to be a lot higher than yours, because that's the only way for them to have the same relative value to *them* compared to you. That's where most of the progression jealousy comes from. People believe they deserve some fraction of the higher tiers, but that's not how their tier is constructed. They think they deserve the specific kinds of rewards that will get them to the next higher tier, which tends to be coincidentally what they are handing out like candy at higher tiers explicitly because those tiers no longer need them to reach a higher progress tier. This is one of the many things that is totally obvious, but also totally defies people's expectations.

But yeah, I'll take the R2 over the R5 any day, even though I do still use R5s.

I understand what you're saying, and perhaps I'm speaking from my own experience on this, but at the time, I wasn't forming a T5CC in the near to mid-range future. I was also not teeming with Dups, I believe I didn't even have one at the time. The 5* Gem would have been more useful to me because I would have had more use out of it. Ask me now, and I agree. I'd take the 6* Gem.

DNA3000

If you're looking at an R2 Gem vs. an R5 Gem, they have comparable value.
While an individual player might value them that way, that's not how the game economy values them.

In general, it is inevitable that people are going to think they are getting "shafted" by the offers, because the offers are designed to be relevant to the progression tier. People think "relevant" means "give me what I need to move up a tier" but that's not the definition of relevance. Relevance refers to the kinds of rewards players of that progress tier typically receive. It doesn't mean the average reward they receive, it means the rewards are valued against what they receive.

A Cavalier player can earn a range of rewards, from low to high. A TB can also earn a range of rewards, from low to high. But that range is higher than the Cav player. The typical Paragon is likely also earning a range of rewards from low to high, but that range is, on average, higher than the typical TB. The offers are going to target some qualitative value. But "pretty good" for Cav is going to be lower than "pretty good" for TB. "Pretty good" for Paragon is going to be significantly higher than "pretty good" for TB. It has to be for the relative value to be similar.

So the offers targeting the tier above you have to be a lot higher than yours, because that's the only way for them to have the same relative value to *them* compared to you. That's where most of the progression jealousy comes from. People believe they deserve some fraction of the higher tiers, but that's not how their tier is constructed. They think they deserve the specific kinds of rewards that will get them to the next higher tier, which tends to be coincidentally what they are handing out like candy at higher tiers explicitly because those tiers no longer need them to reach a higher progress tier. This is one of the many things that is totally obvious, but also totally defies people's expectations.

But yeah, I'll take the R2 over the R5 any day, even though I do still use R5s.
I understand what you're saying, and perhaps I'm speaking from my own experience on this, but at the time, I wasn't forming a T5CC in the near to mid-range future. I was also not teeming with Dups, I believe I didn't even have one at the time. The 5* Gem would have been more useful to me because I would have had more use out of it. Ask me now, and I agree. I'd take the 6* Gem.

That's the point. A 4->5 gem could very well be more useful to a player with a large roster of 5* champs and very few 6* champs. Such a player is almost certainly at a lower progression than a player with a large roster of 6* champs for whom the 1->2 gem would be a lot more useful. So that's why in general, the 5* R5 gem gets handed out to lower progression players and the 6* R2 gem gets handed to higher progression players, and by definition that makes the R2 gem a higher value reward.

You can hand a level 12 player that started yesterday a hundred T5Bs and they would be completely useless to them. They couldn't even hold them much less use them. But that doesn't mean T5Bs are a less valuable reward than say T1A. They are just inappropriate to that player, but still a higher value reward.