Mole-Man true accuracy removed during Frenzy.
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I think you'll be hard-pressed to find an instance where I argue peoples' right to voice their opinion. I simply disagree that a bug should be left in place based on time existing. All the information was there for us to see it wasn't intended. We just didn't want it to be fixed.....and we got our way, for a year and a half. At some point, the fact that it wasn't intended needs to come into play.MunchFlob said:
That was my first thought. They are likely going to release something soon that he will be good for in his current state.GroundedWisdom said:For example, if a particular piece of content they're releasing is made much easier than intended by this interaction, then it becomes a priority.
But the fact that he has been used in his current state by so many for so long and against a description that is actually not 100% clear (and yes I can justify this) to me means they should build the content around him in his current state.
I stand by what I said. It is reasonable for people to have assumed he was working as intended.
It is unreasonable to make this change.
And I know none of that changes that Kabam has every right to do this. My point is just that it is unreasonable to do this and people have every right to voice that opinion.1 -
This is a good point. Perhaps a dev saw that Moleman made an upcoming EoP fight or some other piece of content much easier, so they decided to fix him.GroundedWisdom said:For example, if a particular piece of content they're releasing is made much easier than intended by this interaction, then it becomes a priority.
Either way and for whatever reason they did it, this is a sad day for many, not all, in the MCoC community.
I hope and pray Kabam reconsiders or does something for the player benefit regarding this specific handling of Moleman.
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Wow. I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.Fabwizi said:
Well you are defending them when you take time to find out previous posts and all.Demonzfyre said:
Did you not read the last paragraph? I'm not defending them. I'm pointing out errors on both sides of the aisle.Fabwizi said:
Why are you defending kabam, when any normal person would know what kabam is doing here is not correct ethically.Demonzfyre said:
It didn't take 2 years. It was Feb/Mar of 2021. Just over a year.Fabwizi said:
Ya, ButDemonzfyre said:
Cool, so all the dex, parry and input issues can just be part of the game right? Don't fix the bugs, just make them part of the game?MunchFlob said:This one is simple.
Whether it’s a bug or not does not matter.
The only sensible solution is to change the description rather than change the ability.
That will not upset anybody.
He may not be as intended but neither is he game breaking.
Just change the description in the game and everyone’s happy.
I have MM as an R3. I took him up knowing about the big and played like he was normal. I don't care if they fix him or leave him the way he is. I don't use him enough to have that strong of an opinion.
But to say " don't fix a bug because it makes the community happy" just isn't how things work.
Why did it take 2 years to fix a simple bug.
Why did they not openly declare its a bug.
Why after multiple threads on the issue not one official reply from kabam saying it's a big.
This is just insult of loyal player base.
I don't know what your definition of a simple bug is but I highly doubt it's the real definition or as simple as you think. But I'm sure you're a professional programmer with decades of experience.
I still think they did. They moved a thread here- https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/300851/is-mole-man-still-bugged-with-his-true-accuracy-and-frenzy-skill-r-3-4-gem to bugs section. I can't find any MOD comment so I can't say for sure. They knew it was and they should have commented but I can't tell you why they didn't.
It's not really an insult. You knew about.the bug because you commented on the thread I posted. You're taking as an insult because of the length of time and it's actually being fixed. You, like many are overreacting.
The real issue is the lack of communication and confirmation from Kabam on the issue but don't pretend it wasn't widely known.
Be mad about the communication. That's issue to be upset about. Don't be mad they fixed a bug because that's what's supposed to happen.
If I sold you a Dimond set it had a Dimond more than promised and I come back a year later and ask you to give that one Dimond of the necklace, the set is broken.
So you would ask for a full refund or keep the broken set?
So trying to see if they confirmed the bug or not is defending them? Gotcha. For a minute I thought I was talking to a sane person but I realize, I'm not.1 -
My comment was for a thread that seems to have gotten merged and the comment deleted so it seems like a random question in this thread.Mauled said:
Tbh there’s so much of this game that’s filled with unexpected interactions that it’s hard to keep track of what is and isn’t bugged, and that’s from someone who has clearly spent too long on the forums where they’re allegedly documented. I realise in this case that it’s a fairly documented case but it is akin to saying don’t rank up Apocalypse because his horseman prefight is bugged, which I found out to my chagrin in the middle of an AoL path.Demonzfyre said:Why did you rank him up knowing he was bugged?
What I’d like to see is a comprehensive list of all the known bugs in one pinned topic bullet pointed with any impending actions being annotated but I guess I’m probably weeing in the wind.
The person I said this to knew he was bugged when they ranked MM.4 -
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Changing the description is the same as not fixing it 🤦MunchFlob said:
I did not say don’t fix a bug because it makes the community happy.Demonzfyre said:
Cool, so all the dex, parry and input issues can just be part of the game right? Don't fix the bugs, just make them part of the game?MunchFlob said:This one is simple.
Whether it’s a bug or not does not matter.
The only sensible solution is to change the description rather than change the ability.
That will not upset anybody.
He may not be as intended but neither is he game breaking.
Just change the description in the game and everyone’s happy.
I have MM as an R3. I took him up knowing about the big and played like he was normal. I don't care if they fix him or leave him the way he is. I don't use him enough to have that strong of an opinion.
But to say " don't fix a bug because it makes the community happy" just isn't how things work.
I said it would be a better solution to change the description in game.
The fact that this is not an official bug from what I can see on forums is also relevant but I didn’t go down that route in my argument because that was not what I was trying to say.0 -
Actually, legal concepts like adverse possession and reliance are spot on. I love all the talk about “the design realm” as if that’s like Strange’s mirror dimension where commercial norms don’t apply.Mauled said:
Squatter’s rights lolLorddrew said:
You can't argue with kind of reasoning.. there are even regulations in several areas/disciplines that if you do not adress an issue or have taken actions nor adress it.. it should be considered that the current situation as - is should be accepted ?GroundedWisdom said:
That's where I disagree. A bug is a bug, day 1 after, or 20 years after.DrZola said:
Strawmanning. I trust you can see there’s a fair gap between “immediately” and “a year and a half—with no readily findable comment.”GroundedWisdom said:
So because they didn't fix it immediately, they changed the fact that it was a bug?DrZola said:
Sure. And if the team leaves it in place for a year and half, fails to respond to players asking about it and doesn’t explicitly call it out in easy to find locations, there’s also reliance that deserves redress.GroundedWisdom said:There's no expiration date on a bug. If it's not intended, then it's subject to fixing whenever.
Dr. Zola
Dr. Zola
Dr. Zola11 -
The real issue is that you, as a player, which I suppose you are, are not upset by such a development. I mean there are issues where there can be very different opinions but I think the community comes together sometimes when some changes are universally acknowledged as bad. And yet here you are claiming it's all fair and just because the line in the ability list says so. As if it never ever occured that there was a mistake in some champ's ability description. Never ever. Right!Demonzfyre said:
It didn't take 2 years. It was Feb/Mar of 2021. Just over a year.Fabwizi said:
Ya, ButDemonzfyre said:
Cool, so all the dex, parry and input issues can just be part of the game right? Don't fix the bugs, just make them part of the game?MunchFlob said:This one is simple.
Whether it’s a bug or not does not matter.
The only sensible solution is to change the description rather than change the ability.
That will not upset anybody.
He may not be as intended but neither is he game breaking.
Just change the description in the game and everyone’s happy.
I have MM as an R3. I took him up knowing about the big and played like he was normal. I don't care if they fix him or leave him the way he is. I don't use him enough to have that strong of an opinion.
But to say " don't fix a bug because it makes the community happy" just isn't how things work.
Why did it take 2 years to fix a simple bug.
Why did they not openly declare its a bug.
Why after multiple threads on the issue not one official reply from kabam saying it's a big.
This is just insult of loyal player base.
I don't know what your definition of a simple bug is but I highly doubt it's the real definition or as simple as you think. But I'm sure you're a professional programmer with decades of experience.
I still think they did. They moved a thread here- https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/300851/is-mole-man-still-bugged-with-his-true-accuracy-and-frenzy-skill-r-3-4-gem to bugs section. I can't find any MOD comment so I can't say for sure. They knew it was and they should have commented but I can't tell you why they didn't.
It's not really an insult. You knew about.the bug because you commented on the thread I posted. You're taking as an insult because of the length of time and it's actually being fixed. You, like many are overreacting.
The real issue is the lack of communication and confirmation from Kabam on the issue but don't pretend it wasn't widely known.1 -
I get fixing bugs. But a "bug" that made a champ MVP great and has been existing for nearly years should no longer be considered a bug lol. Its bull ****. That's on kabam or waiting so long. They should offer rank down tickets. I'll never use my rank 4 now. Complete waste. He was my most used AW attacker and now he's nearly useless. In 7 years of playing, this is the 1 thing Oabam has done that's pissed me off the most1
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Fair nuf 😜Demonzfyre said:
My comment was for a thread that seems to have gotten merged and the comment deleted so it seems like a random question in this thread.Mauled said:
Tbh there’s so much of this game that’s filled with unexpected interactions that it’s hard to keep track of what is and isn’t bugged, and that’s from someone who has clearly spent too long on the forums where they’re allegedly documented. I realise in this case that it’s a fairly documented case but it is akin to saying don’t rank up Apocalypse because his horseman prefight is bugged, which I found out to my chagrin in the middle of an AoL path.Demonzfyre said:Why did you rank him up knowing he was bugged?
What I’d like to see is a comprehensive list of all the known bugs in one pinned topic bullet pointed with any impending actions being annotated but I guess I’m probably weeing in the wind.
The person I said this to knew he was bugged when they ranked MM.2 -
Depends on the definition of fixing it. I read a lot of people here saying that the description did not match the abilities, not a lot saying that the champion was broken good.Demonzfyre said:
Changing the description is the same as not fixing it 🤦MunchFlob said:
I did not say don’t fix a bug because it makes the community happy.Demonzfyre said:
Cool, so all the dex, parry and input issues can just be part of the game right? Don't fix the bugs, just make them part of the game?MunchFlob said:This one is simple.
Whether it’s a bug or not does not matter.
The only sensible solution is to change the description rather than change the ability.
That will not upset anybody.
He may not be as intended but neither is he game breaking.
Just change the description in the game and everyone’s happy.
I have MM as an R3. I took him up knowing about the big and played like he was normal. I don't care if they fix him or leave him the way he is. I don't use him enough to have that strong of an opinion.
But to say " don't fix a bug because it makes the community happy" just isn't how things work.
I said it would be a better solution to change the description in game.
The fact that this is not an official bug from what I can see on forums is also relevant but I didn’t go down that route in my argument because that was not what I was trying to say.
I for one wish they had changed the description but I’ll keep using him regardless.0 -
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When doom's sp1 description became the same as dragon man's sp1 I didn't see people asking to "fix" the bug in doom's sp1. I believe it was obvious from practical evidence that the bug was in the description. Same goes for this one. If you claim there was a bug in how the ability worked it should have been addressed ages ago. It would have had an impact in my decisions this past year. I wouldn't have ranked up mole man while knowing at any random moment he would have become uselessShiroihara said:
Depends on the definition of fixing it. I read a lot of people here saying that the description did not match the abilities, not a lot saying that the champion was broken good.Demonzfyre said:
Changing the description is the same as not fixing it 🤦MunchFlob said:
I did not say don’t fix a bug because it makes the community happy.Demonzfyre said:
Cool, so all the dex, parry and input issues can just be part of the game right? Don't fix the bugs, just make them part of the game?MunchFlob said:This one is simple.
Whether it’s a bug or not does not matter.
The only sensible solution is to change the description rather than change the ability.
That will not upset anybody.
He may not be as intended but neither is he game breaking.
Just change the description in the game and everyone’s happy.
I have MM as an R3. I took him up knowing about the big and played like he was normal. I don't care if they fix him or leave him the way he is. I don't use him enough to have that strong of an opinion.
But to say " don't fix a bug because it makes the community happy" just isn't how things work.
I said it would be a better solution to change the description in game.
The fact that this is not an official bug from what I can see on forums is also relevant but I didn’t go down that route in my argument because that was not what I was trying to say.
I for one wish they had changed the description but I’ll keep using him regardless.0 -
Fixing it as in making the champ do what his kit says.Shiroihara said:
Depends on the definition of fixing it. I read a lot of people here saying that the description did not match the abilities, not a lot saying that the champion was broken good.Demonzfyre said:
Changing the description is the same as not fixing it 🤦MunchFlob said:
I did not say don’t fix a bug because it makes the community happy.Demonzfyre said:
Cool, so all the dex, parry and input issues can just be part of the game right? Don't fix the bugs, just make them part of the game?MunchFlob said:This one is simple.
Whether it’s a bug or not does not matter.
The only sensible solution is to change the description rather than change the ability.
That will not upset anybody.
He may not be as intended but neither is he game breaking.
Just change the description in the game and everyone’s happy.
I have MM as an R3. I took him up knowing about the big and played like he was normal. I don't care if they fix him or leave him the way he is. I don't use him enough to have that strong of an opinion.
But to say " don't fix a bug because it makes the community happy" just isn't how things work.
I said it would be a better solution to change the description in game.
The fact that this is not an official bug from what I can see on forums is also relevant but I didn’t go down that route in my argument because that was not what I was trying to say.
I for one wish they had changed the description but I’ll keep using him regardless.1 -
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I have no issues with Kabam fixing a bug so that Moleman works as intended. If they would have responded to the many threads from players asking if this was working as intended the pending change would feel very different. All they had to say is something like "we are looking into this and we may have to make a change at some point if we determine that he is not working as intended." Players did their due diligence by bringing the matter to Kabam for clarification. Because Kabam failed on their end to communicate with the players they have created the current situation and they ought to take some responsibility for it.
If the way that Moleman is working is gamebreaking, they should apologize and explain why this change is necessary for the stability of the game. If it is not gamebreaking they should acknowledge that they should have communicated when players brought up the issue ages ago, and that they will leave him as he is and change the description accordingly.
Given Moleman's description, Kabam can justifiably make this change. But when dealing with real people who are also your customers, the fact that you can do something doesn't necessarily mean that you should do it. By not responding to the players when asked if this was intended they have made this much worse than it needed to be.
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so i understand that you can make the argument that you should have never ranked him up if you knew he was bugged and that he would maybe be fixed in the future. but i think it goes beyond that. remember when hawkeye had a bug with his sig ability where he did crazy amounts of damage by lowering the opponent's physical resistance into the negatives? in that scenario, kabam confirms it is a bug, tells people it will be fixed asap, and it's fixed within 12 hours of release. in this case, there is not a single mention of it by kabam, and it's been around a year and a half and not a peep from anyone from kabam confirming it's a bug or that it is going to be fixed.0
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@kabam What I find a travesty is when communication seems to be getting better something like this is put In patch notes quietly.
Leaving this this way for over a year implies everything was ok. This could have just as easily been fixed with updated the text. This should come with rank down tickets for both reasons. Shame on the anti-player parts of the community, this should be an easy one.0 -
Kind of makes me sad I just recently ranked up my 6*. Could have used those resources elsewhere.0
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If I remember correctly they did acknowledge this as a bug that benefited the players and they chose to keep it as they were responding to pro player bugs getting fixed immediately and there point was they don't and used the MM bug as an example they also implied there were no plans to change it yet here we are6
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I'm not upset at them fixing a bug because that's what they're supposed to do. You can't ask them to only fix bugs you want them to fix. That's just not how it works. The line is correct because part of his buff was going from 5 MM to 10 MM to keep the T.A. So, it wasn't an issue with the description.Amms90 said:
The real issue is that you, as a player, which I suppose you are, are not upset by such a development. I mean there are issues where there can be very different opinions but I think the community comes together sometimes when some changes are universally acknowledged as bad. And yet here you are claiming it's all fair and just because the line in the ability list says so. As if it never ever occured that there was a mistake in some champ's ability description. Never ever. Right!Demonzfyre said:
It didn't take 2 years. It was Feb/Mar of 2021. Just over a year.Fabwizi said:
Ya, ButDemonzfyre said:
Cool, so all the dex, parry and input issues can just be part of the game right? Don't fix the bugs, just make them part of the game?MunchFlob said:This one is simple.
Whether it’s a bug or not does not matter.
The only sensible solution is to change the description rather than change the ability.
That will not upset anybody.
He may not be as intended but neither is he game breaking.
Just change the description in the game and everyone’s happy.
I have MM as an R3. I took him up knowing about the big and played like he was normal. I don't care if they fix him or leave him the way he is. I don't use him enough to have that strong of an opinion.
But to say " don't fix a bug because it makes the community happy" just isn't how things work.
Why did it take 2 years to fix a simple bug.
Why did they not openly declare its a bug.
Why after multiple threads on the issue not one official reply from kabam saying it's a big.
This is just insult of loyal player base.
I don't know what your definition of a simple bug is but I highly doubt it's the real definition or as simple as you think. But I'm sure you're a professional programmer with decades of experience.
I still think they did. They moved a thread here- https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/300851/is-mole-man-still-bugged-with-his-true-accuracy-and-frenzy-skill-r-3-4-gem to bugs section. I can't find any MOD comment so I can't say for sure. They knew it was and they should have commented but I can't tell you why they didn't.
It's not really an insult. You knew about.the bug because you commented on the thread I posted. You're taking as an insult because of the length of time and it's actually being fixed. You, like many are overreacting.
The real issue is the lack of communication and confirmation from Kabam on the issue but don't pretend it wasn't widely known.
I'm in agreement with the fact that Kabam should have either confirmed the bug in threads or added it to the known issues page. That's the real problem here.0 -
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do you have a thread link for that?Prylank said:If I remember correctly they did acknowledge this as a bug that benefited the players and they chose to keep it as they were responding to pro player bugs getting fixed immediately and there point was they don't and used the MM bug as an example they also implied there were no plans to change it yet here we are
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Well that solves my dilemma on whether to bring Mole Man to R4.3
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Where are the patch notesAmms90 said:So I read in the release notes for the next update that you are going to heavily nerf moleman. He's been out for how long? 2 years now? Now you decide that keeping true strike while activating frenzy under 10 monster mass is a bug??? And you "fix it"? This is nuts! I ranked him up specifically because of how he works. Not being able to fight in frenzy if I need true strike makes him too damn slow and I don't wanna use him anymore. Is kabam going to issue rank down tickets? Because mine is a rank 3 6 star at the moment. Ah! Not to mention, he won't be useful for the carina's challengers abyss run. Which of course I have yet to do. But many others have completed the challenge with the help of mole man. This is very wrong on so many levels.
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