Buffs can be good for everyone not just newer players. Thoughts on recent Buff announcement

Ima dissect part of what Kabam John posted:

“There has been a lot of chatter about how champion reworks and updates have changed. We are still approaching reworks the same way we always have, and we want to reestablish our goals and parameters of these champ revamp efforts.”

The thing is that i think buffs aren’t the same as 2021, when they say that they will be approached like the always have. 2021 sometimes had buffs that came with a lot of text and different abilities, for instance Diablo, Ebony Maw and Joe Fixit. Of course not every buff that year came with a lot of text but those stick out in my mind a bit. Another thing different is that 2022 has buffed fairly old champs, with the exception of Psycho Man, whereas last year they had buffed champs from many different years, some of which from 2019 which wasn’t considered old at the time. There has been a shift to what champs will be getting buffed recently…

The goals have always been:
Give Champions an update that will help them feel more meaningful, especially for newer players who usually have fewer options to deal with challenges

When it says especially for newer players, that’s a great thing, but newer players isn’t everyone. In fact it’s not a huge portion of players, even though there are many. Older/Endgame players still want to be impressed and have a meaningful impact on their account too. And champs like Xpool and Jane feel like just another waste to them. There can be a way to make champs simple, for newer players, yet effective for everyone. Take Nebula for example. Nebula is simple to use, hold block, parry and SP2. There isn’t a super complicated rotation, there isn’t a need to intercept or other complex mechanics, she isn’t that hard for a newer player to learn. When you’re a newer player, the content you play has attack pools relatively close to your own, meaning the block damage you take is somewhat minimal. You also might have a harder time parrying if youre new, which yes isnt the easiest thing to do at that level, but only needs to be done once. Consider the impact that Nebula has on top tier players as well. She’s used quite often in AW, and great for nearly every other content.

An even better example of a champ being good for the new and old is Storm. Storm is super easy to use. 5 hit combo, SP2 with maybe some heavies if you want. Again, no need to intercept, no abilities dependent on parry, and she’s great for new players and has uses for the older ones.

and, To increase a relative sense of excitement when these champs are pulled from a crystal.

This doesn’t say for which type of player it will increase excitement for. I can tell you now, I’m not top of the game but I still wouldn’t be happy if I pulled a Xpool.

Many of the Champions that get reworks are obtained regularly in the early game, especially those with 1- and 2-star versions.

Again, this is a newer change, because many reworks in 2021 were for slightly newer champs.

While it may feel like eons ago that many of you used a 2-Star Champion, they are still regularly used by new players. For these Champions, one of our priorities is to keep them feeling simple and easy to understand. Giving a Champion some new tools to play with, but keeping their original theme.

Again you can make a champion easy to understand but good for the majority of the game at the same time. And sadly it hasn’t felt like that recently. And of course you can keep their original theme, I don’t think many would complain about that, but make their original theme meaningful and not just another fly on the wall

So with the announcement of Juggernaut, Ant Man and Rocket being buffed, they are all old champs, in fact very old champs, keeping the trend lately of old champs being buffed which is great. But again, a buff can be good yet simple. One doesn’t have to be without the other

Comments

Crusaderjr

where is the link to these champ buff post?

GrassKnuckles

where is the link to these champ buff post?

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/309699/champion-attributes-and-rebalance-updates-july-2022#latest

Colinwhitworth69

We all love the buffs. They could never give us enough. I’m fine letting them decide the pace.

Jestuh

I don’t get the October break in buffs “as we’re transitioning”. What are they transitioning to?

Also the feeling of pulling a bad champ is still there, it’s just now that champ has been reworked.

Austin555555

ANT MAN BUFF!!! FINALLY!!
I’m so exited for his buff

TheLegend27

"Many of the Champions that get reworks are obtained regularly in the early game, especially those with 1- and 2-star versions."

I don't understand this part. Aren't the vast majority of champs available as a 2*? AuntMai tells me 221 of the 228 champs are available as 2* champs. So the vast majority of champs should be equally likely of being pulled by a newer player. This just some BS logic they hope people don't pick up on or am I missing something?

Also, I'd like to see the data that shows newer players "regularly" using 1 and 2-star champs. Until then, I remain skeptic. Early progression in this game has been streamlined so much in the past 1-2 years. 3* and above aren't that hard to obtain.

And 1* availability should not be the deciding factor of who is buffed lol.

I agree with you about the complexity factor. Magneto's ease-of-use is a 4.5/5 (official rating by Kabam). So a great buff and being simple to use/understand aren't mutually exclusive things. Not sure why they are trying so hard to make it seem like they are. (and before I get hit with all the outrage, I'm not saying every buff has to be Magneto level).

winterthur

"Many of the Champions that get reworks are obtained regularly in the early game, especially those with 1- and 2-star versions."

I don't understand this part. Aren't the vast majority of champs available as a 2*?

There is only a limited pool of champs coming out of PHCs. The rest, the bigger portion can only be obtained when special events arrives.

Also, I'd like to see the data that shows newer players "regularly" using 1 and 2-star champs. Until then, I remain skeptic.

Maybe need to factor in Arenas.

GrassKnuckles

"Many of the Champions that get reworks are obtained regularly in the early game, especially those with 1- and 2-star versions."

I don't understand this part. Aren't the vast majority of champs available as a 2*?
There is only a limited pool of champs coming out of PHCs. The rest, the bigger portion can only be obtained when special events arrives.

Said special events are pretty rare and give usually only like 20-30 Collector crystals

Deacon

let's go Juggs

Chovner

I’m still not sure what the point in buffing Psycho Man was. Of all the buffs I’m still puzzled at who that was aimed at?
New players?
Experience players?
Psycho Man fanboys and fangirls?

Whoever it was aimed at, I don’t know what it really did to the champ that was worth the time and effort. Maybe I should take mine to r4 to see his TRUE potential…. 😐 (challenges someone to post 6* R4 Psycho Man gameplay lol)

Either way I’m glad they’re at least putting more effort into announcing when they’re coming, who they are and what their initial intent it. At the very least it’ll stop the myriad “next month” posts on the forum.

L0TUS_MANTIS

ANT MAN BUFF!!! FINALLY!!
I’m so exited for his buff

Yeah I almost exited after Guilly's buff was such a letdown. But you've waited this long, you might as well see if Antman's buff is actually good before you exit the game

Vendemiaire

I’m still not sure what the point in buffing Psycho Man was. Of all the buffs I’m still puzzled at who that was aimed at?
New players?
Experience players?
Psycho Man fanboys and fangirls?

Whoever it was aimed at, I don’t know what it really did to the champ that was worth the time and effort. Maybe I should take mine to r4 to see his TRUE potential…. 😐 (challenges someone to post 6* R4 Psycho Man gameplay lol)

Either way I’m glad they’re at least putting more effort into announcing when they’re coming, who they are and what their initial intent it. At the very least it’ll stop the myriad “next month” posts on the forum.

Psycho-Man is immune to (champion) buffs.

TheLightBringer

Doing 1 buff a month and also taking a month break, I hope the 3 champs mentioned there will deliver good quality buffs, no more Novas, ronins or jane foster levels of a buff

Aleor

Assuming new players don't have any skill in the game, one could assume that buffs targeting that group would result into champs who are easy to use, like, I don't know, herc. Or mags. Or colossus. Or kingpin. Not into useless champs like psycho man or yondu. I'd say black panther requires more skill now and while I most likely won't ever use him, I can agree he is better now for any player and may be relevant for some.
For champs like jugs the bar is set pretty low initially because of their current uselessness, but it doesn't mean making them a tiny little better is enough to make those champs relevant for anyone

Aleor

where is the link to these champ buff post?
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/309699/champion-attributes-and-rebalance-updates-july-2022#latest

Also that announcement sounds good, now will just have to wait and see if they deliver so much missed quality buffs we all wish to see

AverageDesi

What i don't like about the "keeping things simple for newer players" is that i don't think most neweer players even care what the kit of the champ they're using his.(i have no data on this obviously) it doesn't even matter what the kit is. You only ever need to read champion kits in act 4 and by then most are past 2 and 3* (i think)

Heck even people in act 7 still ask things like " why is Spiderman evading venom to this day"

DNA3000

"Many of the Champions that get reworks are obtained regularly in the early game, especially those with 1- and 2-star versions."

I don't understand this part. Aren't the vast majority of champs available as a 2*? AuntMai tells me 221 of the 228 champs are available as 2* champs. So the vast majority of champs should be equally likely of being pulled by a newer player. This just some BS logic they hope people don't pick up on or am I missing something?

One thing you are missing is: why would they lie?

But the more important one is: many if not most 2* champs are not in the normal crystals. They only exist in the special collector crystals. I have literally opened thousands of crystals that contain 2* champs (like 2* crystals and PHCs). This includes a lot of collector crystals and the Marvel Insider crystals which contain collector champs. According to the game, I still don't have very old champs like OG Captain Marvel, or Beast, or Gwenpool. I'm not sure if all of them are absent from the normal crystals, but if all of the champs were equally likely to appear in the common champion crystals, the odds that I would be missing several older champs like this are vanishingly small.

AMS94

It just takes a few months for a newer player to reach a stage where those "buffed" champs targetted specifically at them start to seem worthless

That's why this approach of "some buffs are targetted at newer players" never made any sense to me if the buff is going to be useful only for initial 4-6 months

Also the way some kits are designed for these buffed champions doesn't actually support their argument of the buff being designed for newer players

DNA3000

It just takes a few months for a newer player to reach a stage where those "buffed" champs targetted specifically at them start to seem worthless

Most F2P players make a decision on whether or not to continue to play a game within the first few minutes.

AverageDesi

It just takes a few months for a newer player to reach a stage where those "buffed" champs targetted specifically at them start to seem worthless
Most F2P players make a decision on whether or not to continue to play a game within the first few minutes.

Right but they dont do it based on dpx forces "simple kit' do they? It's more on how much they like champ animations and stuff isn't it?

JStreak

October break due to “transitioning” - Relics in October?

RobbieRampage

I kinda fear these buffs being weak based on the preceding sentences. Sounds like they just want to make them good enough to use. I really hope I’m wrong. This few buffs coming out and how bad these champs are should mean really good reworks, but who knows. The Deadpool buff left him still pretty useless and he was a meme tier champ.

DNA3000

It just takes a few months for a newer player to reach a stage where those "buffed" champs targetted specifically at them start to seem worthless
Most F2P players make a decision on whether or not to continue to play a game within the first few minutes.
Right but they dont do it based on dpx forces "simple kit' do they? It's more on how much they like champ animations and stuff isn't it?

Why would you assume that?

Is MCOC a casual friendly game? Can you just pick it up and start playing it? How much do you really need to know? These are questions you actually cannot answer accurately within the first few minutes of playing it. But that doesn't matter: new players will form an opinion anyway. That opinion will not be based on what MCOC is, because they won't know what it is. It will be based on what MCOC seems to be. If they play the game and they don't know what's going on and don't want to read a ton of text to find out, that can easily be the thing that makes them say eh, let's try something else.

Most people do not initially choose what to play based on the parts they like. They choose based on what parts they don't like. They are looking for a veto, and when they find it they move on, at least until they've played enough to become invested in it. Engagement designers are constantly looking for those points of friction and trying to reduce or eliminate them. A minority of players look for a game that has what they want, and are willing to push through the gates to get it. The majority are looking for a game that doesn't annoy them, and are willing to walk away from the parts they like to avoid the parts they don't like, in the early stages when they can take it or leave it.

There must be a hook: something to like. But there must also be as little immediate turnoffs as possible besides that. And developers do not just wake up one day and decide to focus on such things. Only three things can do that: the boss, the boss's wife, and data. In this case it is probably data.

Malreck04

I refuse to believe any new player uses 2 stars after getting their first 3 star, which takes 30 minutes (probably less). More stars, bronze -> silver. There's zero incentive to not play with the character with the bigger number.

DNA3000

I refuse to believe any new player uses 2 stars after getting their first 3 star, which takes 30 minutes (probably less). More stars, bronze -> silver. There's zero incentive to not play with the character with the bigger number.

Ok. Then what. Kabam seems to be implying they have data that says otherwise. Either they are telling the truth and there's no point in discussing it further, or they are lying and there's no point in discussing it further.

Malreck04

I refuse to believe any new player uses 2 stars after getting their first 3 star, which takes 30 minutes (probably less). More stars, bronze -> silver. There's zero incentive to not play with the character with the bigger number.
Ok. Then what. Kabam seems to be implying they have data that says otherwise. Either they are telling the truth and there's no point in discussing it further, or they are lying and there's no point in discussing it further.

"Many of the Champions that get reworks are obtained regularly in the early game, especially those with 1- and 2-star versions. While it may feel like eons ago that many of you used a 2-Star Champion, they are still regularly used by new players."

The statement is that they are used regularly, no comparison is made. The game forces you to use 2 stars for some fights, is that a metric that should be considered?

Malreck04

I refuse to believe any new player uses 2 stars after getting their first 3 star, which takes 30 minutes (probably less). More stars, bronze -> silver. There's zero incentive to not play with the character with the bigger number.
Ok. Then what. Kabam seems to be implying they have data that says otherwise. Either they are telling the truth and there's no point in discussing it further, or they are lying and there's no point in discussing it further.
"Many of the Champions that get reworks are obtained regularly in the early game, especially those with 1- and 2-star versions. While it may feel like eons ago that many of you used a 2-Star Champion, they are still regularly used by new players."

The statement is that they are used regularly, no comparison is made. The game forces you to use 2 stars for some fights, is that a metric that should be considered?

I'd say one month is a pretty good time for someone to go from brand new to "alright, I'm learning stuff cause I find this game interesting". I'd really like to see what fraction of this month is spent using 2 stars instead of something higher.

unknown

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GrandOldKai

I refuse to believe any new player uses 2 stars after getting their first 3 star, which takes 30 minutes (probably less). More stars, bronze -> silver. There's zero incentive to not play with the character with the bigger number.
Ok. Then what. Kabam seems to be implying they have data that says otherwise. Either they are telling the truth and there's no point in discussing it further, or they are lying and there's no point in discussing it further.
"Many of the Champions that get reworks are obtained regularly in the early game, especially those with 1- and 2-star versions. While it may feel like eons ago that many of you used a 2-Star Champion, they are still regularly used by new players."

The statement is that they are used regularly, no comparison is made. The game forces you to use 2 stars for some fights, is that a metric that should be considered?
I'd say one month is a pretty good time for someone to go from brand new to "alright, I'm learning stuff cause I find this game interesting". I'd really like to see what fraction of this month is spent using 2 stars instead of something higher.

Well
During some months you basically get given a 3 star for free, so I imagine some players just assume "higher stars = stronger"

So I doubt they'll be using 2 stars for long

I sure didn't.

SkyLord7000

I’d think any player that is in the two star champion phase isn’t even looking at their kit and just button mashing. No one uses one stars anymore!!

You can button mash your way to three stars!