**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

End of Gifting... [master-thread]

1…4567810»

Comments

  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 2,965 ★★★★★
    I still don’t see why this couldn’t be an alliance event for 55+ uncollected players. It solves an extraordinary chunk of the issues on the competitive side, especially with the membership requirements and the fact it’s overlap war season in some way.
  • AdevatiAdevati Posts: 437 ★★★
    TyEdge said:

    I still don’t see why this couldn’t be an alliance event for 55+ uncollected players. It solves an extraordinary chunk of the issues on the competitive side, especially with the membership requirements and the fact it’s overlap war season in some way.

    My guess is there is a hidden motive and they figured the fraud scapegoat was an ironclad excuse. They drop out of context data like “850,000 crystals fraud” to add shock value and get the apologists on their side. 850k of what? 5 million? 50 million? Are we talking 20% fraud or 1% fraud? What is actually considered fraud? I can create both legitimate and fraudulent scenarios that would result in the exact same data points for Kabam.

    There is a laundry list of ways to eliminate bot farming; or at least dramatically reduce it.

    I refuse to believe a company with a team of data analysts and data scientists couldn’t figure out a way to fix the issue.

    They simply don’t want trading of any kind anymore and won’t just come out and say it.
  • CoppinCoppin Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Adevati said:

    TyEdge said:

    I still don’t see why this couldn’t be an alliance event for 55+ uncollected players. It solves an extraordinary chunk of the issues on the competitive side, especially with the membership requirements and the fact it’s overlap war season in some way.

    My guess is there is a hidden motive and they figured the fraud scapegoat was an ironclad excuse. They drop out of context data like “850,000 crystals fraud” to add shock value and get the apologists on their side. 850k of what? 5 million? 50 million? Are we talking 20% fraud or 1% fraud? What is actually considered fraud? I can create both legitimate and fraudulent scenarios that would result in the exact same data points for Kabam.

    There is a laundry list of ways to eliminate bot farming; or at least dramatically reduce it.

    I refuse to believe a company with a team of data analysts and data scientists couldn’t figure out a way to fix the issue.

    They simply don’t want trading of any kind anymore and won’t just come out and say it.
    Dude.. they dont even test updates....
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,978 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Adevati said:

    TyEdge said:

    I still don’t see why this couldn’t be an alliance event for 55+ uncollected players. It solves an extraordinary chunk of the issues on the competitive side, especially with the membership requirements and the fact it’s overlap war season in some way.

    My guess is there is a hidden motive and they figured the fraud scapegoat was an ironclad excuse. They drop out of context data like “850,000 crystals fraud” to add shock value and get the apologists on their side. 850k of what? 5 million? 50 million? Are we talking 20% fraud or 1% fraud? What is actually considered fraud? I can create both legitimate and fraudulent scenarios that would result in the exact same data points for Kabam.

    There is a laundry list of ways to eliminate bot farming; or at least dramatically reduce it.

    I refuse to believe a company with a team of data analysts and data scientists couldn’t figure out a way to fix the issue.

    They simply don’t want trading of any kind anymore and won’t just come out and say it.
    I am a little worried about the direction the game team has taken in the last few months. Just to name a few:
    Dropping the paragon title with no way of obtaining on release without having purchased offers
    Act 7 completion offer which people could buy 2 or maybe 3 times(not sure exactly how many times it was opened)
    Opening floodgates on r4 materials
    Essentially giving everyone that could spend 18k units an r4 Hercules on July 4th
    Loyalty changes both potions and store
    Selling GGC for 50$
    Increasing prices on the cavalier nexus crystal pack by 100%
    Gifting being canceled in the name of fraud control after imposing stringent eligibility requirements last year.
    It almost seems like ‘make as much money as possible’ strategy and it kind of is giving me bad vibes about the game.
    I know people will disagree if post stays up for long but I feel it’s a bit concerning the general direction the game is headed.


    Y'all say this every time something changes. "Game is headed in the wrong direction yet 8 years later it's still here.
    1. You could have paragon without spending on day 1 but the title on release wasn't meant to go out to everyone.
    2. Glitches happen. They tried to fix it and couldn't. It's not that game changing.
    3. Isn't this what people were asking for anyway? Why ask for more R4 mats and then complain about how abundant they are now.
    4. You act like there were millions of people that got herc. Who really cares if someone wanted to spend 18k units on a single champ? Like, what's it going to do to you and your account?
    5. Loyalty changes are a major issue and still are. I agree with this.
    6. Ok? They sold that pack 2 years in a row.
    7. This was one time so far and it just happened yesterday. It's not changing the history of the game nor the direction. The marketing team tried something and looks like it failed big time. You'll likely never see it again and probably won't see that pool of champs in a cav crystal again either. But stop pretending it broke the game.
    8. The event changed just like it has every year since it's introduction. it needed to change and even after all the exploiters last year, this new way was needed. If you want to be mad at someone for the gifting event, be mad at the people who cheat and steal and exploit their way through the game. The bad ones ruin it for all the rest of us.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,301 ★★★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Adevati said:

    TyEdge said:

    I still don’t see why this couldn’t be an alliance event for 55+ uncollected players. It solves an extraordinary chunk of the issues on the competitive side, especially with the membership requirements and the fact it’s overlap war season in some way.

    My guess is there is a hidden motive and they figured the fraud scapegoat was an ironclad excuse. They drop out of context data like “850,000 crystals fraud” to add shock value and get the apologists on their side. 850k of what? 5 million? 50 million? Are we talking 20% fraud or 1% fraud? What is actually considered fraud? I can create both legitimate and fraudulent scenarios that would result in the exact same data points for Kabam.

    There is a laundry list of ways to eliminate bot farming; or at least dramatically reduce it.

    I refuse to believe a company with a team of data analysts and data scientists couldn’t figure out a way to fix the issue.

    They simply don’t want trading of any kind anymore and won’t just come out and say it.
    I am a little worried about the direction the game team has taken in the last few months. Just to name a few:
    Dropping the paragon title with no way of obtaining on release without having purchased offers
    Act 7 completion offer which people could buy 2 or maybe 3 times(not sure exactly how many times it was opened)
    Opening floodgates on r4 materials
    Essentially giving everyone that could spend 18k units an r4 Hercules on July 4th
    Loyalty changes both potions and store
    Selling GGC for 50$
    Increasing prices on the cavalier nexus crystal pack by 100%
    Gifting being canceled in the name of fraud control after imposing stringent eligibility requirements last year.
    It almost seems like ‘make as much money as possible’ strategy and it kind of is giving me bad vibes about the game.
    I know people will disagree if post stays up for long but I feel it’s a bit concerning the general direction the game is headed.


    Y'all say this every time something changes. "Game is headed in the wrong direction yet 8 years later it's still here.
    1. You could have paragon without spending on day 1 but the title on release wasn't meant to go out to everyone.
    2. Glitches happen. They tried to fix it and couldn't. It's not that game changing.
    3. Isn't this what people were asking for anyway? Why ask for more R4 mats and then complain about how abundant they are now.
    4. You act like there were millions of people that got herc. Who really cares if someone wanted to spend 18k units on a single champ? Like, what's it going to do to you and your account?
    5. Loyalty changes are a major issue and still are. I agree with this.
    6. Ok? They sold that pack 2 years in a row.
    7. This was one time so far and it just happened yesterday. It's not changing the history of the game nor the direction. The marketing team tried something and looks like it failed big time. You'll likely never see it again and probably won't see that pool of champs in a cav crystal again either. But stop pretending it broke the game.
    8. The event changed just like it has every year since it's introduction. it needed to change and even after all the exploiters last year, this new way was needed. If you want to be mad at someone for the gifting event, be mad at the people who cheat and steal and exploit their way through the game. The bad ones ruin it for all the rest of us.
    Grab a snickers!! Why are you so hot!! Calm down!!
  • Standardman1989Standardman1989 Posts: 536 ★★★
    I hope the event remplace gift event its a free because lot of end free for take a crédit card for exemple évent february
  • Lovejoy72Lovejoy72 Posts: 1,858 ★★★★
    Can I still send Christmas cards to my alliance mates??

    (Trick question, I don’t have any.)
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,657 Guardian
    Adevati said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Adevati said:

    Addyos said:

    Coppin said:

    SuelGames said:

    GREAT MOVE BY KABAM!

    YALL WHALES CAN CRY ME A RIVER LOOL

    Rofl . Tell me u didnt understand the issue without telling me u didnt understand the issue...
    I can recall one “whale” last year who racked up enough r4 material from GGCs to have at least FIVE r4 6*s in no time. When the materials to have that many r4’s weren’t in game as yet and before rank rewards came out, which gave top-ranked players a r3-r4 gem after the Event ended.

    You would think said whale would place highly in the rank rewards due to opening so many GGCs, but when the rankings came out, his name was nowhere to be found. Not top 30, not even top 100. It was not hard to deduce how this “whale” was able to splurge on GGCs without placing in ranked rewards, unless this well-known whale had an even bigger whale gifting him hundreds of thousands of GGCs for free. Which I highly doubt.

    These will be the whales who may be crying a river as they can’t exploit the Gifting Event, in the manner described above, anymore.
    The validity of this claim is highly questionable.

    On average, it took 850 GGCs for one T6B.

    This player would have to have opened over 2.5 million units worth of crystals or $80,000+.

    Not completely outside the realm of possibility but a huge raised eyebrow. People have repeatedly overvalued GGC drops when arguing against gifting.
    I've seen bot farms with over a thousand accounts in them.
    The conversation was about whales purchasing GGCs. The original commenter said they highly doubt this player received farmed GGCs.
    No, the conversation was about players who appeared to be whales, but were not necessarily whales. Otherwise, they wouldn't be putting quote marks around the word "whales." They were transacting GGCs at whale levels, but there was some question over whether all such players were actually conventional whale spenders.

    The *specific* post I replied to was questioning whether the original report was even possible at all, by any means, as they explicitly stated "not completely outside the realm of possibility but a huge raised eyebrow."
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,657 Guardian
    Graves_3 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Adevati said:

    TyEdge said:

    I still don’t see why this couldn’t be an alliance event for 55+ uncollected players. It solves an extraordinary chunk of the issues on the competitive side, especially with the membership requirements and the fact it’s overlap war season in some way.

    My guess is there is a hidden motive and they figured the fraud scapegoat was an ironclad excuse. They drop out of context data like “850,000 crystals fraud” to add shock value and get the apologists on their side. 850k of what? 5 million? 50 million? Are we talking 20% fraud or 1% fraud? What is actually considered fraud? I can create both legitimate and fraudulent scenarios that would result in the exact same data points for Kabam.

    There is a laundry list of ways to eliminate bot farming; or at least dramatically reduce it.

    I refuse to believe a company with a team of data analysts and data scientists couldn’t figure out a way to fix the issue.

    They simply don’t want trading of any kind anymore and won’t just come out and say it.
    I am a little worried about the direction the game team has taken in the last few months. Just to name a few:
    Dropping the paragon title with no way of obtaining on release without having purchased offers
    Act 7 completion offer which people could buy 2 or maybe 3 times(not sure exactly how many times it was opened)
    Opening floodgates on r4 materials
    Essentially giving everyone that could spend 18k units an r4 Hercules on July 4th
    Loyalty changes both potions and store
    Selling GGC for 50$
    Increasing prices on the cavalier nexus crystal pack by 100%
    Gifting being canceled in the name of fraud control after imposing stringent eligibility requirements last year.
    It almost seems like ‘make as much money as possible’ strategy and it kind of is giving me bad vibes about the game.
    I know people will disagree if post stays up for long but I feel it’s a bit concerning the general direction the game is headed.
    Y'all say this every time something changes. "Game is headed in the wrong direction yet 8 years later it's still here.
    1. You could have paragon without spending on day 1 but the title on release wasn't meant to go out to everyone.
    2. Glitches happen. They tried to fix it and couldn't. It's not that game changing.
    3. Isn't this what people were asking for anyway? Why ask for more R4 mats and then complain about how abundant they are now.
    4. You act like there were millions of people that got herc. Who really cares if someone wanted to spend 18k units on a single champ? Like, what's it going to do to you and your account?
    5. Loyalty changes are a major issue and still are. I agree with this.
    6. Ok? They sold that pack 2 years in a row.
    7. This was one time so far and it just happened yesterday. It's not changing the history of the game nor the direction. The marketing team tried something and looks like it failed big time. You'll likely never see it again and probably won't see that pool of champs in a cav crystal again either. But stop pretending it broke the game.
    8. The event changed just like it has every year since it's introduction. it needed to change and even after all the exploiters last year, this new way was needed. If you want to be mad at someone for the gifting event, be mad at the people who cheat and steal and exploit their way through the game. The bad ones ruin it for all the rest of us.
    Grab a snickers!! Why are you so hot!! Calm down!!
    This is a strange thing to say to someone who is replying to your post comprised of a long list of things, with an equally long list of things.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,301 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Adevati said:

    TyEdge said:

    I still don’t see why this couldn’t be an alliance event for 55+ uncollected players. It solves an extraordinary chunk of the issues on the competitive side, especially with the membership requirements and the fact it’s overlap war season in some way.

    My guess is there is a hidden motive and they figured the fraud scapegoat was an ironclad excuse. They drop out of context data like “850,000 crystals fraud” to add shock value and get the apologists on their side. 850k of what? 5 million? 50 million? Are we talking 20% fraud or 1% fraud? What is actually considered fraud? I can create both legitimate and fraudulent scenarios that would result in the exact same data points for Kabam.

    There is a laundry list of ways to eliminate bot farming; or at least dramatically reduce it.

    I refuse to believe a company with a team of data analysts and data scientists couldn’t figure out a way to fix the issue.

    They simply don’t want trading of any kind anymore and won’t just come out and say it.
    I am a little worried about the direction the game team has taken in the last few months. Just to name a few:
    Dropping the paragon title with no way of obtaining on release without having purchased offers
    Act 7 completion offer which people could buy 2 or maybe 3 times(not sure exactly how many times it was opened)
    Opening floodgates on r4 materials
    Essentially giving everyone that could spend 18k units an r4 Hercules on July 4th
    Loyalty changes both potions and store
    Selling GGC for 50$
    Increasing prices on the cavalier nexus crystal pack by 100%
    Gifting being canceled in the name of fraud control after imposing stringent eligibility requirements last year.
    It almost seems like ‘make as much money as possible’ strategy and it kind of is giving me bad vibes about the game.
    I know people will disagree if post stays up for long but I feel it’s a bit concerning the general direction the game is headed.
    Y'all say this every time something changes. "Game is headed in the wrong direction yet 8 years later it's still here.
    1. You could have paragon without spending on day 1 but the title on release wasn't meant to go out to everyone.
    2. Glitches happen. They tried to fix it and couldn't. It's not that game changing.
    3. Isn't this what people were asking for anyway? Why ask for more R4 mats and then complain about how abundant they are now.
    4. You act like there were millions of people that got herc. Who really cares if someone wanted to spend 18k units on a single champ? Like, what's it going to do to you and your account?
    5. Loyalty changes are a major issue and still are. I agree with this.
    6. Ok? They sold that pack 2 years in a row.
    7. This was one time so far and it just happened yesterday. It's not changing the history of the game nor the direction. The marketing team tried something and looks like it failed big time. You'll likely never see it again and probably won't see that pool of champs in a cav crystal again either. But stop pretending it broke the game.
    8. The event changed just like it has every year since it's introduction. it needed to change and even after all the exploiters last year, this new way was needed. If you want to be mad at someone for the gifting event, be mad at the people who cheat and steal and exploit their way through the game. The bad ones ruin it for all the rest of us.
    Grab a snickers!! Why are you so hot!! Calm down!!
    This is a strange thing to say to someone who is replying to your post comprised of a long list of things, with an equally long list of things.
    Surprised at your short response. Life is full of strange things indeed.

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,657 Guardian
    Graves_3 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Adevati said:

    TyEdge said:

    I still don’t see why this couldn’t be an alliance event for 55+ uncollected players. It solves an extraordinary chunk of the issues on the competitive side, especially with the membership requirements and the fact it’s overlap war season in some way.

    My guess is there is a hidden motive and they figured the fraud scapegoat was an ironclad excuse. They drop out of context data like “850,000 crystals fraud” to add shock value and get the apologists on their side. 850k of what? 5 million? 50 million? Are we talking 20% fraud or 1% fraud? What is actually considered fraud? I can create both legitimate and fraudulent scenarios that would result in the exact same data points for Kabam.

    There is a laundry list of ways to eliminate bot farming; or at least dramatically reduce it.

    I refuse to believe a company with a team of data analysts and data scientists couldn’t figure out a way to fix the issue.

    They simply don’t want trading of any kind anymore and won’t just come out and say it.
    I am a little worried about the direction the game team has taken in the last few months. Just to name a few:
    Dropping the paragon title with no way of obtaining on release without having purchased offers
    Act 7 completion offer which people could buy 2 or maybe 3 times(not sure exactly how many times it was opened)
    Opening floodgates on r4 materials
    Essentially giving everyone that could spend 18k units an r4 Hercules on July 4th
    Loyalty changes both potions and store
    Selling GGC for 50$
    Increasing prices on the cavalier nexus crystal pack by 100%
    Gifting being canceled in the name of fraud control after imposing stringent eligibility requirements last year.
    It almost seems like ‘make as much money as possible’ strategy and it kind of is giving me bad vibes about the game.
    I know people will disagree if post stays up for long but I feel it’s a bit concerning the general direction the game is headed.
    Y'all say this every time something changes. "Game is headed in the wrong direction yet 8 years later it's still here.
    1. You could have paragon without spending on day 1 but the title on release wasn't meant to go out to everyone.
    2. Glitches happen. They tried to fix it and couldn't. It's not that game changing.
    3. Isn't this what people were asking for anyway? Why ask for more R4 mats and then complain about how abundant they are now.
    4. You act like there were millions of people that got herc. Who really cares if someone wanted to spend 18k units on a single champ? Like, what's it going to do to you and your account?
    5. Loyalty changes are a major issue and still are. I agree with this.
    6. Ok? They sold that pack 2 years in a row.
    7. This was one time so far and it just happened yesterday. It's not changing the history of the game nor the direction. The marketing team tried something and looks like it failed big time. You'll likely never see it again and probably won't see that pool of champs in a cav crystal again either. But stop pretending it broke the game.
    8. The event changed just like it has every year since it's introduction. it needed to change and even after all the exploiters last year, this new way was needed. If you want to be mad at someone for the gifting event, be mad at the people who cheat and steal and exploit their way through the game. The bad ones ruin it for all the rest of us.
    Grab a snickers!! Why are you so hot!! Calm down!!
    This is a strange thing to say to someone who is replying to your post comprised of a long list of things, with an equally long list of things.
    Surprised at your short response. Life is full of strange things indeed.
    I felt that posting a long list of things explaining why a long list of things was a reasonable response to a long list of things would exceed the meta horizon for this particular context. You have to know your audience.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Adevati said:

    TyEdge said:

    I still don’t see why this couldn’t be an alliance event for 55+ uncollected players. It solves an extraordinary chunk of the issues on the competitive side, especially with the membership requirements and the fact it’s overlap war season in some way.

    My guess is there is a hidden motive and they figured the fraud scapegoat was an ironclad excuse. They drop out of context data like “850,000 crystals fraud” to add shock value and get the apologists on their side. 850k of what? 5 million? 50 million? Are we talking 20% fraud or 1% fraud? What is actually considered fraud? I can create both legitimate and fraudulent scenarios that would result in the exact same data points for Kabam.

    There is a laundry list of ways to eliminate bot farming; or at least dramatically reduce it.

    I refuse to believe a company with a team of data analysts and data scientists couldn’t figure out a way to fix the issue.

    They simply don’t want trading of any kind anymore and won’t just come out and say it.
    I am a little worried about the direction the game team has taken in the last few months. Just to name a few:
    Dropping the paragon title with no way of obtaining on release without having purchased offers
    Act 7 completion offer which people could buy 2 or maybe 3 times(not sure exactly how many times it was opened)
    Opening floodgates on r4 materials
    Essentially giving everyone that could spend 18k units an r4 Hercules on July 4th
    Loyalty changes both potions and store
    Selling GGC for 50$
    Increasing prices on the cavalier nexus crystal pack by 100%
    Gifting being canceled in the name of fraud control after imposing stringent eligibility requirements last year.
    It almost seems like ‘make as much money as possible’ strategy and it kind of is giving me bad vibes about the game.
    I know people will disagree if post stays up for long but I feel it’s a bit concerning the general direction the game is headed.
    Y'all say this every time something changes. "Game is headed in the wrong direction yet 8 years later it's still here.
    1. You could have paragon without spending on day 1 but the title on release wasn't meant to go out to everyone.
    2. Glitches happen. They tried to fix it and couldn't. It's not that game changing.
    3. Isn't this what people were asking for anyway? Why ask for more R4 mats and then complain about how abundant they are now.
    4. You act like there were millions of people that got herc. Who really cares if someone wanted to spend 18k units on a single champ? Like, what's it going to do to you and your account?
    5. Loyalty changes are a major issue and still are. I agree with this.
    6. Ok? They sold that pack 2 years in a row.
    7. This was one time so far and it just happened yesterday. It's not changing the history of the game nor the direction. The marketing team tried something and looks like it failed big time. You'll likely never see it again and probably won't see that pool of champs in a cav crystal again either. But stop pretending it broke the game.
    8. The event changed just like it has every year since it's introduction. it needed to change and even after all the exploiters last year, this new way was needed. If you want to be mad at someone for the gifting event, be mad at the people who cheat and steal and exploit their way through the game. The bad ones ruin it for all the rest of us.
    Grab a snickers!! Why are you so hot!! Calm down!!
    This is a strange thing to say to someone who is replying to your post comprised of a long list of things, with an equally long list of things.
    Surprised at your short response. Life is full of strange things indeed.
    I felt that posting a long list of things explaining why a long list of things was a reasonable response to a long list of things would exceed the meta horizon for this particular context. You have to know your audience.
    That would be Scream-level meta. Wise choice.
  • BigManOnCampusBigManOnCampus Posts: 376 ★★★
    thepiggy said:

    Feel bad for all the legitimate alt account players, but it's a cleaner event now.

    No more cheap crystals unless they players load odins directly, hopefully they don't go to those lengths.

    Hopefully Kabam keep a close eye on account sharing to prevent that.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,657 Guardian
    thepiggy said:

    Feel bad for all the legitimate alt account players, but it's a cleaner event now.

    No more cheap crystals unless they players load odins directly, hopefully they don't go to those lengths.

    A part of me hopes they do, because while Kabam can't catch everyone doing this, they only have to catch them once.

    And the fact that people still seem to think VPNs are helpful in this regard makes me pretty sure we aren't dealing with master criminals here. They'll be caught eventually.
  • MalchaeisMalchaeis Posts: 174 ★★
    Doesn't solve the alternate accounts issues, but could they implement a system for gifting/trading where you have to use units to gift/trade GGC's for the solo and alliance event milestones? Like you have to trade a GGC to receive a GGC from your friend? They aren't traded until both agree and the units come out of their acct when the trade happens. But both have to be online at the time. Think that would solve the scamming for the most part. Just trying to think of ways to keep gifting around.
  • ShiroiharaShiroihara Posts: 1,092 ★★★★
    Jeremy3186 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Jeremy3186 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Jeremy3186 said:

    Or does that 3% fraud that needs to be stomped out supersede all of the rest of us?

    In this case, yes they do.

    What we are allowed to do in a common shared environment is limited by what the worst of us attempts to do. They are the ones that make continuing to allow us that latitude to be too costly to continue, and they set the example for the slightly less unscrupulous to follow. The 3% that does the horrible and gets away with it encourages the next 3% that were not willing to follow suit to believe it is okay to go along with it, and now you have 6% doing horribly things setting the example for the next 10% of slightly less savory players to figure why not.

    You then have the majority of players wondering why bother when every year more and more people aren't playing by the same rules, and an increasing number of players believing what they are doing is fully endorsed by the game operators and they are untouchable. Which, as they say,


    Honest question.. using your logic.. should we end all governments... close all sports leagues... close all private business?
    I cannot think of any possible way to use my logic to reach that conclusion. If I said hey, people are conducting fraudulent activities in the game let's shut down the entire game then yes, using that logic, the natural conclusion would be that I was advocating shutting down anything that *contained* the possibility for fraud.

    There is a huge difference between regulating activities within an environment, and obliterating that environment. The difference is the core principle of limited confining response. If the problem is that one particular event in the game is a) encouraging fraudulent activity, b) facilitating TOS-violating material exchanges, c) generating pervasive negative sentiment, d) being used by players to take advantage of other players, and e) is no longer being used for its originally intended purposes, then the obvious logical response is to first see if those problems are reparable, and if they are not to discontinue and replace this event with something that has a higher ratio of positive impact. Which is exactly what has been done.

    Shutting down the entire game, then the entire games industry, then the world wide financial industry, then Earth, to resolve these problems would be taking somewhat larger actions than necessary, so I don't advocate that. And similarly, ending all governments because fraud exists in governments, ending all sports leagues because there is an element of cheating in those sports, or closing all private businesses because there exists fraud in some business activities would be equally ludicrous.

    I don't know why some people equate logic with "if you want to go see the beach, might as well drive into the ocean." That's like saying if two plus two equals four, it probably equals all the other numbers as well, so two plus two also equals twelve.
    Ok.. lets take your logic more literally then... lets not ban all governments for corruption.. just the US Presidency because of Richard Nixon and Donald ****'s crimes? Lets not ban all sports.... just Major League Baseball because of steroid use and the 2017 Houston Astros cheating scandal? Lets not ban all private business.. just those that cheat on their taxes, commit crimes against their community, or CEO's are caught laundering money? (ok maybe all private business then lol)...

    The macro point here? In almost anything, any group of people do.. they were will be those that try to cheat the system. This is a sad part of human instinct... a certain sect of people just want to get stuff easier, and get over on others.. there is literally no way to avoid that.. this is why police and courts exist..... to "throw the baby out with the bath water" as the phrase goes.. doesn't make sense. Do everything you possibly can to stomp out the scams (youtubers point out blatantly obvious one's in MCOC daily)... but don't punish the whole community because of them. I hope this makes sense to most reading it.
    I get your point but I think the problem is that either Kabam does not have the resources to effectively monitor fraudulent activities or it’s just not cost effective.
    Imagine all those activities you mentioned but you have only 20 policemen for the whole world.
    Closing down the avenues by which said activities are committed is the best option.
  • smy168smy168 Posts: 206 ★★
    The fraud was insane, probably not the majority of us playing but my little brother and some of his alliance crew were scammed, not particularly on 3rd party sites but just people that made trade offers...yes, he's naive and so are his friends...but at 16 -17 and new to the game, it wasn't cool at all.

    A few bad apples ruin the bunch...that said this is just a new opportunity to create another "pay-wall", very fortunate for Kabam...my best advice after being in this thing since it launched and doing my fair share of spending...wait and see, we can guess all day and ask all night, they won't be clear on this until very close to the event, they will definitely need to better understand how to make rev on this...
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    Jeremy3186 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Jeremy3186 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Jeremy3186 said:

    Or does that 3% fraud that needs to be stomped out supersede all of the rest of us?

    In this case, yes they do.

    What we are allowed to do in a common shared environment is limited by what the worst of us attempts to do. They are the ones that make continuing to allow us that latitude to be too costly to continue, and they set the example for the slightly less unscrupulous to follow. The 3% that does the horrible and gets away with it encourages the next 3% that were not willing to follow suit to believe it is okay to go along with it, and now you have 6% doing horribly things setting the example for the next 10% of slightly less savory players to figure why not.

    You then have the majority of players wondering why bother when every year more and more people aren't playing by the same rules, and an increasing number of players believing what they are doing is fully endorsed by the game operators and they are untouchable. Which, as they say,


    Honest question.. using your logic.. should we end all governments... close all sports leagues... close all private business?
    I cannot think of any possible way to use my logic to reach that conclusion. If I said hey, people are conducting fraudulent activities in the game let's shut down the entire game then yes, using that logic, the natural conclusion would be that I was advocating shutting down anything that *contained* the possibility for fraud.

    There is a huge difference between regulating activities within an environment, and obliterating that environment. The difference is the core principle of limited confining response. If the problem is that one particular event in the game is a) encouraging fraudulent activity, b) facilitating TOS-violating material exchanges, c) generating pervasive negative sentiment, d) being used by players to take advantage of other players, and e) is no longer being used for its originally intended purposes, then the obvious logical response is to first see if those problems are reparable, and if they are not to discontinue and replace this event with something that has a higher ratio of positive impact. Which is exactly what has been done.

    Shutting down the entire game, then the entire games industry, then the world wide financial industry, then Earth, to resolve these problems would be taking somewhat larger actions than necessary, so I don't advocate that. And similarly, ending all governments because fraud exists in governments, ending all sports leagues because there is an element of cheating in those sports, or closing all private businesses because there exists fraud in some business activities would be equally ludicrous.

    I don't know why some people equate logic with "if you want to go see the beach, might as well drive into the ocean." That's like saying if two plus two equals four, it probably equals all the other numbers as well, so two plus two also equals twelve.
    Ok.. lets take your logic more literally then... lets not ban all governments for corruption.. just the US Presidency because of Richard Nixon and Donald ****'s crimes? Lets not ban all sports.... just Major League Baseball because of steroid use and the 2017 Houston Astros cheating scandal? Lets not ban all private business.. just those that cheat on their taxes, commit crimes against their community, or CEO's are caught laundering money? (ok maybe all private business then lol)...

    The macro point here? In almost anything, any group of people do.. they were will be those that try to cheat the system. This is a sad part of human instinct... a certain sect of people just want to get stuff easier, and get over on others.. there is literally no way to avoid that.. this is why police and courts exist..... to "throw the baby out with the bath water" as the phrase goes.. doesn't make sense. Do everything you possibly can to stomp out the scams (youtubers point out blatantly obvious one's in MCOC daily)... but don't punish the whole community because of them. I hope this makes sense to most reading it.
    You can't. You can't ban those doing said Fraud because they're operating on dummy Accounts. That's been tried and proven. They just continue to make Accounts.
    It's not punishment, it's mitigation. There's little way to deal with it and the repercussions for the Event have become too heavy to responsibly run it.
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