Surprise! The act 8 attack boost is almost always worse than the act 7 boost

Since I didn’t hear anything from anyone about the attack boosts they were seeing in act 8, I did some testing of my own. I took r3 Masacre and Punisher 2099 with a r2 Ikaris into act 8 and into this month’s sidequest. I found a Night Thrasher to play with and here’s what I found.

Masacre - 539/840 in SQ, 625/975 in act 8. This is a 16% increase, or about 530 attack on my 3311 base.

P99 - 557/869 in SQ. 643/1002 in act 8. This is a 15% increase, or about 523 attack on my 3422 base.

Ikaris at rank 2 - 605/943 and 645/1006. This is a 6.7% increase, or just under 200 attack points on the 2939 base.

A few methodology notes - I chose 3 champs that don’t have synergies with each other, and no one had class advantage or disadvantage. I tried to choose nodes that don’t affect armor or resistance, or have a protection component. The act 8 NT is rank 4. The SQ NT was rank 3.

I did a quick test with my rank 4 apocalypse first, but I acknowledge there may be issues with that. I tested against an act 8 Wolverine and a variant Annihilus. The comparison produced a difference of about 30%, which was right around 1100 attack, but that’s more likely to be wrong than the above numbers because the opponents aren’t the same.

TL;DR - it appears that the act 8 boost for 6-star champs is almost always worse than it was in act 7, because most of us don’t have a roster full of r4 champs.

Rank 1 - 100 attack
Rank 2 - 200ish attack
Rank 3 - 525ish attack
Rank 4 - 1100ish attack

Comments

Mobile_P0tat0

It's only 8.1, there will be several people with 20-30 r4s by the time the rest of the act gets here.

ItsDamien

Since I didn’t hear anything from anyone about the attack boosts they were seeing in act 8, I did some testing of my own. I took r3 Masacre and Punisher 2099 with a r2 Ikaris into act 8 and into this month’s sidequest. I found a Night Thrasher to play with and here’s what I found.

Masacre - 539/840 in SQ, 625/975 in act 8. This is a 16% increase, or about 530 attack on my 3311 base.

P99 - 557/869 in SQ. 643/1002 in act 8. This is a 15% increase, or about 523 attack on my 3422 base.

Ikaris at rank 2 - 605/943 and 645/1006. This is a 6.7% increase, or just under 200 attack points on the 2939 base.

A few methodology notes - I chose 3 champs that don’t have synergies with each other, and no one had class advantage or disadvantage. I tried to choose nodes that don’t affect armor or resistance, or have a protection component. The act 8 NT is rank 4. The SQ NT was rank 3.

I did a quick test with my rank 4 apocalypse first, but I acknowledge there may be issues with that. I tested against an act 8 Wolverine and a variant Annihilus. The comparison produced a difference of about 30%, which was right around 1100 attack, but that’s more likely to be wrong than the above numbers because the opponents aren’t the same.

TL;DR - it appears that the act 8 boost for 6-star champs is almost always worse than it was in act 7, because most of us don’t have a roster full of r4 champs.

Rank 1 - 100 attack
Rank 2 - 200ish attack
Rank 3 - 525ish attack
Rank 4 - 1100ish attack

The problem is, as you noted, the difference in ranks between the two you used as a test. Ranks effect the “hidden” stats based on Challenge Rating. The higher the rank the higher the rating the higher the hidden stats.

Using NT at R3 and R4 as per your example.

I am unsure if any global nodes which affect PI also affect these hidden stats.

TyEdge

It’s a good question, but not one I’m well equipped to answer. I see an armor difference of less than 10% (504 vs 550). So even if there’s an issue there, a r3 champ’s buff would still almost certainly be below the 700 given in act 7

TyEdge

Several people is not the community. And it’s yet another example of the idea that if something sounds too good to be true, it is. Kabam could easily have made the boost linear-ish (100-500-1000-1500-2000) or told us what the numbers were.

Meanwhile r2 and r3 champs, who are doing most of the heavy lifting in act 8 right now for the playerbase at large, are doing less damage against stronger opponents than they faced in act 7

Cistart

8.1 is fairly easy for what it is, there's no need for kabam to hold our hand while playing

Demonzfyre

Several people is not the community. And it’s yet another example of the idea that if something sounds too good to be true, it is. Kabam could easily have made the boost linear-ish (100-500-1000-1500-2000) or told us what the numbers were.

Meanwhile r2 and r3 champs, who are doing most of the heavy lifting in act 8 right now for the playerbase at large, are doing less damage against stronger opponents than they faced in act 7

If you're in Act 8 and R2's are doing the heavy lifting, maybe go back to act 7 and finish it along with other content.

AR48

Don't understand the need to shoot down the thread of the OP saying Act 8.1 is easy. The question is not whether the content is easy or difficult. The discussion is what attack boosts 6 star champions are getting in Act 8 vs Act 7 and whether the stated values are clearly defined or not.

Colinwhitworth69

What difference does it make?

Ercarret

I think two things can be said. One is that, as @Mobile_P0tat0 said, this is only the beginning of the act. As future installments arrive, we'll have higher-ranked champions to play with.

The other thing is that 8.1 is littered with attack boosts for various classes in addition to that specific node. You've got all kinds of nodes that they've borrowed from Cav EQ to strengthen mystics who nullify buffs or whatever.

I personally didn't reflect much on it as I explored 8.1, other than enjoying the fact that they had a new system in place instead of just reusing the old one.

Qwerty12345

This is interesting data, and I agree with comments above that as time goes on, people will have many more r4s, and soon r5s (and 7 stars).

That said, the game should get harder as you progress. I get that we want to encourage ranking of champions, and giving an extra boost... but the goal isn't to actually make the content "easy".

Focus more on countering the nodes and you'll be fine. Half the fights give you an absurd bonus (as much as 800%) if you play against them correctly with the right champs, and don't focus as much on whether you have a r2, r3, or r4. If you do want that extra "umph"... use a boost.

TyEdge

This is interesting data, and I agree with comments above that as time goes on, people will have many more r4s, and soon r5s (and 7 stars).

That said, the game should get harder as you progress. I get that we want to encourage ranking of champions, and giving an extra boost... but the goal isn't to actually make the content "easy".

Focus more on countering the nodes and you'll be fine. Half the fights give you an absurd bonus (as much as 800%) if you play against them correctly with the right champs, and don't focus as much on whether you have a r2, r3, or r4. If you do want that extra "umph"... use a boost.

I don’t necessarily disagree with any of that, but why not be transparent? They used that weird node description and they’ve avoided questions about it.

The other issue here is that as rosters deepen, we inevitably are faced with ranking second-tier champs we already maxed as 5-stars. I’ve got 50 max 5-stars, but if I want a 6r3, that’s 7 more basics, 15 t2a, and other mats, and that’s the only way I get a remotely meaningful improvement on the 5-star. Meanwhile, the paragon glory store doesn’t exist and the t5b price for TB players has been updated once in 22 months.

The_man001

It's only 8.1, there will be several people with 20-30 r4s by the time the rest of the act gets here.

Minor Correction, several "whales" not people

unknown

This content has been removed.

Squirrelguy

This is interesting data, and I agree with comments above that as time goes on, people will have many more r4s, and soon r5s (and 7 stars).

That said, the game should get harder as you progress. I get that we want to encourage ranking of champions, and giving an extra boost... but the goal isn't to actually make the content "easy".

Focus more on countering the nodes and you'll be fine. Half the fights give you an absurd bonus (as much as 800%) if you play against them correctly with the right champs, and don't focus as much on whether you have a r2, r3, or r4. If you do want that extra "umph"... use a boost.
I don’t necessarily disagree with any of that, but why not be transparent? They used that weird node description and they’ve avoided questions about it.

The other issue here is that as rosters deepen, we inevitably are faced with ranking second-tier champs we already maxed as 5-stars. I’ve got 50 max 5-stars, but if I want a 6r3, that’s 7 more basics, 15 t2a, and other mats, and that’s the only way I get a remotely meaningful improvement on the 5-star. Meanwhile, the paragon glory store doesn’t exist and the t5b price for TB players has been updated once in 22 months.

You're kinda making a lot of assumptions in this post, but I'll add my opinions into the mix in case they might be helpful to anyone.

First, would you prefer Kabam include a full graph in the node description that lists out each rank and the bonus applied? It is not like they are trying to hide the numbers of the buff, they give us the full range and apparently it is fairly easy to find out. I just assumed that they shortened the description because adding an even longer description in a node to literally every fight in the entire Act would be overkill and unnecessary. I would also consider it to be the least of their concerns right now as they have a plethora of actual bugs and issues in-game to deal with. I would much rather them fix those than explain point-by-point their logic in changing a relatively unimportant bit of design.

Why are you complaining about deeper rosters? This change actually can benefit deeper rosters with lower ranked champs, but that kinda seemed disconnected from the rest of your post. The blanket boost in Act 7 incentivised always bringing in 6* champs over similar 5* versions if they were at all around the same PI. It did not really make a difference as you went up in rank, but it helped give a bigger boost (percentage-wise) to lower 6* champs. With a progresively increasing boost, you will be less incentivised to use low ranked 6* champs when you already have them as a maxed 5* version because the difference is not quite so much, but the incentive to rank them still exists. This feels like an appropriate change to a boost with such low overall impact. The Nick Fury synergy gives more, and the actual nodes in each case are far more impactful.

Meanwhile r2 and r3 champs, who are doing most of the heavy lifting in act 8 right now for the playerbase at large, are doing less damage against stronger opponents than they faced in act 7

Also, are you saying that Act 8 should be.... as difficult as an earlier act? Easier? What they have really done is increase the boost for champions that are more prevalent for Summoners that are typically at that level in content. Paragon players will get more from the boost than players that just unitman-ed their way through previous acts without having a normally developed roster. If players have skill, then the boost shouldn't make much of a difference.

TyEdge

Even if you don’t spell it out in the node, share it in the forum post. Don’t make people figure it out.

We all have a few champs that elude us. I just got a 6-star she hulk. My max 5 star with decent sig has 2527 base attack. The 6r2 can hit for 3445 in act 7, but only 2945 in act 8. Act 7 gave a meaningful incentive to take a champ to r2 even if you had a max 5-star. My opinion is that act 8 doesn’t do that, unless you’re going to r3 and beyond. I find that a bit disappointing.

hefy2000

Even if you don’t spell it out in the node, share it in the forum post. Don’t make people figure it out.

We all have a few champs that elude us. I just got a 6-star she hulk. My max 5 star with decent sig has 2527 base attack. The 6r2 can hit for 3445 in act 7, but only 2945 in act 8. Act 7 gave a meaningful incentive to take a champ to r2 even if you had a max 5-star. My opinion is that act 8 doesn’t do that, unless you’re going to r3 and beyond. I find that a bit disappointing.

To be completely honest with you, I still don’t think this matters. What’s a few hundred points of attack going to do when there are 600% modifiers from the weapon nodes? The r2s that you keep going on and on about will absolutely still destroy the content.