The one path in the Rifts that is a bit nonsensical

DNA3000 · October 2022

Qwerty12345 said:
I appreciate OP's attempt to scale everything into a single currency... but most currencies tend to be "good deals" for one resource, and terrible for others. Take a look at the "catalyst store" vs. the glory store and the price for 1 T5B vs. T2A (I say one, as don't want to confuse people even more with escalating prices and what that does to the ratio).

I myself caution people to be wary when making cross situational comparison, because the intent in different situations can be different. The obvious case is when a resource is very expensive to buy, but when you sell it back you get trivial amounts of gold or whatever (for example, the 30% champion boost). This isn't "unfair" because there's no specific requirement that what you pay to get something should be equal or even close to what you're refunded when you sell it back.

In this case however, I'm comparing the difference between two paths in the same rift, or rather comparing each rare path to the default path. The default path grants 20k candies. *If* the intent is for all the rare paths to be not just rare, but more valuable than the default, then we can ask whether there is a reasonable way to compare 10k 6* shards to 20k candy. Is that better? While it is an imperfect comparison, we can directly compare the value of 10k 6* shards to how many 6* shards we could buy with 20k candy. If there was a way to convert 20k candy into 6* shards, we could make a very close apples to apples comparison. We can't because of store limits, so we then do the next best reasonable thing that is generally done whenever making economic comparisons in general: we extrapolate the closest incremental simplified valuation. We know 650 6* shards is worth something, so we can extrapolate how much candy 10k 6* shards would be worth.

As I acknowledge in the post, there are imperfections in this kind of analysis. For example, if all you want are sig stones, or if you personally value those higher than everything else, then the best possible result would be to get the sig stone path all 35 times, even though that is "economically worth" only 245k candy (rather than getting candy on every run which generates 700k candy). We can't buy 35 sig stones with 245k candy because the store has limits. However, as I mention in the OP, we can say this for every reward on every path, so in a sense this complication "averages out."

Taking a step back a bit, there are those that question these kinds of analyses altogether. I'm not saying you're one of them, but there are people who will dismiss this sort of thing as objectively impossible to do. There's just no way to account for all the variables, so all of these analyses are worthless. The problem with this position is that it is fundamentally wrong in a very specific way. Game designers can only do the possible, not the impossible. They are therefore required to make not a game that is perfectly magically balanced to an impossible degree, but one that is designed within the limits of their ability to account for things in general.

To put it another way, the designer of the Rifts did something to design the rewards. A thing that is possible for human beings to do. I don't know precisely what that was, because I was not in the room, but I can safely assume that whatever they did, it isn't magically immune to normal, mundane, everyday, economic comparisons. He didn't design the Rifts by Ouija board. And thus this kind of careful, conservative analysis, is I think a fair perspective to critique it from.

DrZola · October 2022

DNA3000 said:
Nonsensical is a strong word, however, I do think that there is a problem with one of the random Rift paths in the Legendary Rifts. It is the sig stone path. But to get there requires a bit of math. Aw, who am I kidding, even if it didn't require it, I would still force you to read it. Might as well get it over with.

There are six paths other than candy in the Legendary Rifts. They award 2M gold, one T5CC crystal, one +5 6* sig stone, two T5B cats, 10k 6* shards, and one 6* AG. What are these things worth? Well, we can look to the Candy store itself to get an idea. I'm going to specifically be looking at the Cav+ store for this comparison.

You can buy gold. 200k for 20k candy. So 2M gold is worth 200k candy, according to this valuation.
You can buy T5CC via fragment crystals. Five 2% crystals costs 5000 candy. So a full crystal is worth 50k candy.
You can buy T5B, one costs 10k candy. So two T5B is worth 20k candy.
You can buy 6* shards. 650 costs 15k candy, so 10000 is worth 230,769 candy.
You can't buy a 6* AG. But I'm going to state almost certainly without controversy that a 6* AG is worth way, way more than 20k candy.

And then we have +5 6* Sig stone. We can buy that in the Candy store for 7k candy. Notice that every reward above is worth at least 20k candy. Some are worth vastly more. But this path contains a reward that is, according to the Candy store, worth less than the 20k candy you would have gotten on the default path. It is the one "lucky" path where your rewards can be reasonably said to drop.

Now, there are advantages to landing on this path. If you want sig stones, you're limited to only one purchase in the Candy store. Landing on this reward might be a good thing, relative to what you want. But you could say that about every reward. This reward is the only one that is generating a lower reward than the intrinsic economic value of the 20k candy you'd be getting on the default path. That seems weird, if not wrong.

If it were me, I would boost the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift from one +5 sig stone to three. This would then make the economic value of that path 21k candy, and at least marginally higher than the default 20k candy path.

I'm not saying the Rift is "broken" per se. Maybe they deliberately wanted that path to have low value because sig stones are still so high in (design) value that they needed to be constrained to the point of assessing the value of getting two instead of one have an outsized qualitative value.

But if it was me, I would try to make sure every single non-candy path contained a reward that would at least pass the eye test as being worth more than what I lost out to, and the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift doesn't do that, and I don't think 6* sig stones are sufficiently constrained these days that this was compelled. Just my opinion.

Having just gotten “lucky” and found myself on the 6* stone path, I’d have to concur. In fact, I had to tap the stone two or three times to convince myself it was only 5 sig levels.

Dr. Zola

LeNoirFaineant · October 2022

DrZola said:

DNA3000 said:
Nonsensical is a strong word, however, I do think that there is a problem with one of the random Rift paths in the Legendary Rifts. It is the sig stone path. But to get there requires a bit of math. Aw, who am I kidding, even if it didn't require it, I would still force you to read it. Might as well get it over with.

There are six paths other than candy in the Legendary Rifts. They award 2M gold, one T5CC crystal, one +5 6* sig stone, two T5B cats, 10k 6* shards, and one 6* AG. What are these things worth? Well, we can look to the Candy store itself to get an idea. I'm going to specifically be looking at the Cav+ store for this comparison.

You can buy gold. 200k for 20k candy. So 2M gold is worth 200k candy, according to this valuation.
You can buy T5CC via fragment crystals. Five 2% crystals costs 5000 candy. So a full crystal is worth 50k candy.
You can buy T5B, one costs 10k candy. So two T5B is worth 20k candy.
You can buy 6* shards. 650 costs 15k candy, so 10000 is worth 230,769 candy.
You can't buy a 6* AG. But I'm going to state almost certainly without controversy that a 6* AG is worth way, way more than 20k candy.

And then we have +5 6* Sig stone. We can buy that in the Candy store for 7k candy. Notice that every reward above is worth at least 20k candy. Some are worth vastly more. But this path contains a reward that is, according to the Candy store, worth less than the 20k candy you would have gotten on the default path. It is the one "lucky" path where your rewards can be reasonably said to drop.

Now, there are advantages to landing on this path. If you want sig stones, you're limited to only one purchase in the Candy store. Landing on this reward might be a good thing, relative to what you want. But you could say that about every reward. This reward is the only one that is generating a lower reward than the intrinsic economic value of the 20k candy you'd be getting on the default path. That seems weird, if not wrong.

If it were me, I would boost the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift from one +5 sig stone to three. This would then make the economic value of that path 21k candy, and at least marginally higher than the default 20k candy path.

I'm not saying the Rift is "broken" per se. Maybe they deliberately wanted that path to have low value because sig stones are still so high in (design) value that they needed to be constrained to the point of assessing the value of getting two instead of one have an outsized qualitative value.

But if it was me, I would try to make sure every single non-candy path contained a reward that would at least pass the eye test as being worth more than what I lost out to, and the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift doesn't do that, and I don't think 6* sig stones are sufficiently constrained these days that this was compelled. Just my opinion.
Having just gotten “lucky” and found myself on the 6* stone path, I’d have to concur. In fact, I had to tap the stone two or three times to convince myself it was only 5 sig levels.

Dr. Zola

I'm still in the 100% candy group. I think I'd be happy with the 6* stones just to get a different path lol.

Stebo_79 · October 2022

So basically you’re saying kabam were a bit stingy with the sig stones? Yes they were. But then I’ve had nothing but candy so meh.

phillgreen · October 2022

LeNoirFaineant said:

I'm still in the 100% candy group. I think I'd be happy with the 6* stones just to get a different path lol.

Me too.

I've also decided not to spend any candy until the last day just in case some shenanigans get pulled where a "path selector for X candy" mysteriously appears.

DrZola · October 2022

LeNoirFaineant said:

DrZola said:

DNA3000 said:
Nonsensical is a strong word, however, I do think that there is a problem with one of the random Rift paths in the Legendary Rifts. It is the sig stone path. But to get there requires a bit of math. Aw, who am I kidding, even if it didn't require it, I would still force you to read it. Might as well get it over with.

There are six paths other than candy in the Legendary Rifts. They award 2M gold, one T5CC crystal, one +5 6* sig stone, two T5B cats, 10k 6* shards, and one 6* AG. What are these things worth? Well, we can look to the Candy store itself to get an idea. I'm going to specifically be looking at the Cav+ store for this comparison.

You can buy gold. 200k for 20k candy. So 2M gold is worth 200k candy, according to this valuation.
You can buy T5CC via fragment crystals. Five 2% crystals costs 5000 candy. So a full crystal is worth 50k candy.
You can buy T5B, one costs 10k candy. So two T5B is worth 20k candy.
You can buy 6* shards. 650 costs 15k candy, so 10000 is worth 230,769 candy.
You can't buy a 6* AG. But I'm going to state almost certainly without controversy that a 6* AG is worth way, way more than 20k candy.

And then we have +5 6* Sig stone. We can buy that in the Candy store for 7k candy. Notice that every reward above is worth at least 20k candy. Some are worth vastly more. But this path contains a reward that is, according to the Candy store, worth less than the 20k candy you would have gotten on the default path. It is the one "lucky" path where your rewards can be reasonably said to drop.

Now, there are advantages to landing on this path. If you want sig stones, you're limited to only one purchase in the Candy store. Landing on this reward might be a good thing, relative to what you want. But you could say that about every reward. This reward is the only one that is generating a lower reward than the intrinsic economic value of the 20k candy you'd be getting on the default path. That seems weird, if not wrong.

If it were me, I would boost the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift from one +5 sig stone to three. This would then make the economic value of that path 21k candy, and at least marginally higher than the default 20k candy path.

I'm not saying the Rift is "broken" per se. Maybe they deliberately wanted that path to have low value because sig stones are still so high in (design) value that they needed to be constrained to the point of assessing the value of getting two instead of one have an outsized qualitative value.

But if it was me, I would try to make sure every single non-candy path contained a reward that would at least pass the eye test as being worth more than what I lost out to, and the sig stone path in the Legendary Rift doesn't do that, and I don't think 6* sig stones are sufficiently constrained these days that this was compelled. Just my opinion.
Having just gotten “lucky” and found myself on the 6* stone path, I’d have to concur. In fact, I had to tap the stone two or three times to convince myself it was only 5 sig levels.

Dr. Zola
I'm still in the 100% candy group. I think I'd be happy with the 6* stones just to get a different path lol.

I’ve gotten gold 2X and stones 1X, so I suppose I’m very lucky *statistically*.

So not a waste at all, even if the gold isn’t something I especially needed.

Dr. Zola

Dixzle · October 2022

Gotten candy every time..so that's what I'll get today too more than likely..dangling the carrot is just wrong on so many levels

BitterSteel · November 2022

DeaconVelvet said:

BitterSteel said:

DeaconVelvet said:

BitterSteel said:

DeaconVelvet said:
you lost me at attainable LOL. i mean i would wager 90% of the people who play this game will get nothing but candy.
You would lose any money you put on that wager.

It’s a 2% chance for ONE PERSON to get Candy the entire month. The chances for 90% of the playerbase to get nothing but candy is infinitesimal
let's bet! assuming enough people come back at month's end .. i'm going to be EXTREMELY interested in the end result of everyone's turnout .. including you .. who like me have gotten nothing but candy .. and Nov is fast approaching lol
Sure, if you and I both have 0 non-Candy pulls by the end of the month, I’ll gift you 300 units worth of gifts come Xmas, if not, you gift me the same

Happy to take those odds?
done deal my friend lol

@DeaconVelvet what's your haul at the end of the month?

I ended up getting all candy, so if I ended up losing a bet I had a 99.94% chance to win I guess that’s the way the cookie crumbles haha!

Deacon · November 2022

BitterSteel said:

DeaconVelvet said:

BitterSteel said:

DeaconVelvet said:

BitterSteel said:

DeaconVelvet said:
you lost me at attainable LOL. i mean i would wager 90% of the people who play this game will get nothing but candy.
You would lose any money you put on that wager.

It’s a 2% chance for ONE PERSON to get Candy the entire month. The chances for 90% of the playerbase to get nothing but candy is infinitesimal
let's bet! assuming enough people come back at month's end .. i'm going to be EXTREMELY interested in the end result of everyone's turnout .. including you .. who like me have gotten nothing but candy .. and Nov is fast approaching lol
Sure, if you and I both have 0 non-Candy pulls by the end of the month, I’ll gift you 300 units worth of gifts come Xmas, if not, you gift me the same

Happy to take those odds?
done deal my friend lol
@DeaconVelvet what's your haul at the end of the month?

I ended up getting all candy, so if I ended up losing a bet I had a 99.94% chance to win I guess that’s the way the cookie crumbles haha!

call me Mr. Cavity mate lol. nothing but Groundhog Day.

i mean in the end .. no matter had i gotten 5 AGs .. i would still have the same opinion about this one .. it just wasn't fun ... for me and a lot of other people. a very underwhelming side event to me and i'm glad it's over. hoping it never returns in this same format.

The one path in the Rifts that is a bit nonsensical

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