BGs Killing my Drive

DrZola · February 2023

Worknprogress said:
Comparable accounts may not be accurate (I don't ever check overall rating or prestige personally) but I probably should have said comparable decks. After 30 champs account size matters as that means you have more options to fill deck for a specific meta need but in the end what matters is deck strength and its rare I'm matched against someone I'd say doesn't have a chance just based on deck strength

Thanks. That’s what I would expect. Do you find you have similar encounters across your matches (same/similar dance around which champs get banned/used)? Or is there a lot of variability?

Dr. Zola

Worknprogress · February 2023

DrZola said:

Worknprogress said:
Comparable accounts may not be accurate (I don't ever check overall rating or prestige personally) but I probably should have said comparable decks. After 30 champs account size matters as that means you have more options to fill deck for a specific meta need but in the end what matters is deck strength and its rare I'm matched against someone I'd say doesn't have a chance just based on deck strength
Thanks. That’s what I would expect. Do you find you have similar encounters across your matches (same/similar dance around which champs get banned/used)? Or is there a lot of variability?

Dr. Zola

You tend to see more variety at the beginning of a new season or new week once in GC. The longer the nodeset goes though you see more and more of the same stuff as people that were slower to pick up on who will be good start to figure things out.

Hickdog27 · February 2023

Rewards are great, but it’s a stressful game mode. I have a full life. Family, kids, demanding job, etc. I play this game to relax, not to grind and go nowhere. I didn’t play BG’s last season because the Meta didn’t seem enjoyable and it was a great relief.

BG’s is where this game is heading. It’s a competitive mode that requires you to rank up champs that you wouldn’t normally. It’s a money maker and not going anywhere.

If you don’t enjoy it, reassess your commitment to the game and play it accordingly. I did and it’s been more enjoyable.

DrZola · February 2023

I think the game mode has some very significant issues that can’t be addressed just by making the BG store overly rewarding.

When I’m not getting disconnection issues (one out of two fights tonight, prevented my selecting final champs in draft), I run across things like this opponent…

Incredible skills in Silver 3 to pull that kind of fight off in this VT with suicides. Sure, maybe the team catches them using mods and cheating doesn’t pay, or maybe they don’t. Matters little to me, who winds up dropped back a point in a match that should have been a win.

Dr. Zola

Zolobacsi · February 2023

Greekhit said:

TyEdge said:
Increase the tokens needed to progress. 2 becomes 3. 3 becomes 5. 5 becomes 7.

Award 2 tokens for a win, and take 1 token for a loss. Alternatively, 2 for a win, -1 for a 2-1 loss and -2 for a 2-0 loss.

This roadblock is exactly what stops me. I need to be “on” when I’m playing - free of distractions, awake and alert - or else it won’t work. That time is hard to come by, and now matchmaking is harder than ever.
I’ve always been big supporter of this idea.
Increase tokens needed per bracket at VT.
Award 2 for win, subtract 1 for loss.
Or the alternative point system you proposed, but I would do differently, as @DNA3000 had proposed:
+2 tokens for win 2-0
+1 token for win 2-1
0 tokens for loss 2-1
-1 token for loss 2-0
That would make the time spent in Battlegrounds worth it, since now if you don’t achieve a minimum of ~60% win ratio it’s basically a time/resources waste, and by definition most players aren’t achieving that.
Prestige matchmaking can remain throughout VT, since most players will met at GC and there will be filtered, to finally place where they really belong, compared to the competition.
Of course all these are good, and would made all players happy, but I personally doubt Kabam will move to that direction anytime soon, since it’s pretty obvious now that they made VT this way and insist on “equal” matchmaking procedures, because they want people to use these overpriced and low value (since they burn even if you win) Victory Shields.
I’m not against a company to try to monetise the game as much as they can, since I spend a respectable amount of money annually, but with this BGs setup they won’t achieve anything other than pushing players away from the mode.
No one will spend hundreds of units on very expensive Victory Shields in order to “escape” VT and reach GC, and that if you can achieve at least 50% win ratio, let alone if your win ratio is lower, then you are looking into thousands units.
If they rewards weren’t so good, Battlegrounds would have already been a dead mode.

Now this I can stand behind! We need an option where we don't loose tokens. But that's never going to happen because of the shields. I already had to use 4 shields just to get to gold for the objectives. Units and £££, those two are the important things, not us to enjoy the mode.

GivMeABeer · February 2023

In one way I solved my issue, I was primarily doing BGs to get 6* sig stones in the store for Hercules. After doing my 2nd gauntlet run last night (instead of BGs) I got the remaining sig stones I needed to get him up to 200. So now I have less pressure about advancing, maybe that takes some pressure off and I can string some wins together, tbd.

DrZola · February 2023

Nocko said:

DrZola said:
I think the game mode has some very significant issues that can’t be addressed just by making the BG store overly rewarding.

When I’m not getting disconnection issues (one out of two fights tonight, prevented my selecting final champs in draft), I run across things like this opponent…

Incredible skills in Silver 3 to pull that kind of fight off in this VT with suicides. Sure, maybe the team catches them using mods and cheating doesn’t pay, or maybe they don’t. Matters little to me, who winds up dropped back a point in a match that should have been a win.

Dr. Zola
To be fair
I’ve used NF against void a lot in this meta
And I usually get him down to 5%ish and then let him get me to second life before finishing off
I’m getting pretty good at timing it so I’m finishing with NF at 90%ish on second life
I’ve lucked into a very high 90’s
If you time it well, it’s very achievable

In 22 seconds? Getting hit and/or simply blocking just 4 times total? With suis?

Dr. Zola

Skydad23 · February 2023

I don’t claim to be the greatest, but I feel my skills are pretty good. Been playing for four years completed most in end game Contant but I guess my roster is just way too good for my skills. Because everyone I am matched up against is far superior to me, and when I can get a couple wins together, there’s terrible locks with connection issue dropped inputs lagging. This game mode is awesome, but it is so infuriating to have a game mode you like, and cannot be able to progress in. I literally will not put signature stones into any of my six stars anymore. And do not want to take any more champions to rank4. Knowing if penalizes me in this game mode, a game mode I like to play or I did like to play at one point.. lol

Kappa2g · February 2023

Losses in the victory track feel worse than the gladiator circuit at times (when ur 1 win away from the next rank) but also at times meaningless when ur at the 0 wins safety net.

Overall, the victory track is just too much of a slog and I fear it may have well been designed to be that way evidenced by the ability to purchase shields with units.

I personally don't have much suggestions on how to mitigate the grind of the victory track but I think the technical issues this season have definitely not helped alleviate the situation.

Deacon · February 2023

the problem is losing tokens after losses. what exactly is the difference in stringing 3 victories in a row vs simply getting 3 victories? why is it imperative that they're forcing you to string consecutive victories in a row? of course it's for resource draining etc. but why? are there already enough resource draining avenues in this game?

i don't care if more people get into Gladiator's Circuit .. isn't that the goal? for more people to actually enjoy playing the game and not having to share various levels of frustration?

i've never felt it was necessary to have to have consecutive victories in a row to advance. the losses will still be the losses and the wins are still the wins if it's just having to come up with however many victories in however many matches it takes. you could still lose 10 in a row etc but when you remove tokens for losses you just send someone in a very ridiculous and unnecessary loop.

CHANGE THAT. it's just not good design, cool story bro moments or whatever the design team thought it would be. simply getting the necessary amount of victories should suffice without having to get the consecutively.

Deacon · February 2023

all these losses because of cheats, losses because of connection issues, losses because of the instant KO bug and other bugs ... it just makes the need for consecutive victories that much more frustrating. it just isn't necessary. a loss in this mode should just be a loss especially because of the unresolved issues i've mentioned.

and this is coming from someone who always makes it to the circuit. i'm simply speaking based on my own experience of what could possibly make this mode less frustrating for players overall regardless of skill level.

Ironman3000 · February 2023

Greed is the only reason you lose trophies in the GC.

Fryday · February 2023

DeaconVelvet said:
all these losses because of cheats, losses because of connection issues, losses because of the instant KO bug and other bugs ... it just makes the need for consecutive victories that much more frustrating. it just isn't necessary. a loss in this mode should just be a loss especially because of the unresolved issues i've mentioned.

and this is coming from someone who always makes it to the circuit. i'm simply speaking based on my own experience of what could possibly make this mode less frustrating for players overall regardless of skill level.

You make an interesting point. Now I understand that Kabam use this method of progression so Victory Shield could be a thing and help generate extra purchasable items and income, but honestly wondering many Victory Shield are being use and purchases?

Because if the Victory Shield isn't really generate much extra income for Kabam, then could another progression method be more enjoyable (or at least less frustrating for players, especially with all of these bugs in the game right now).

What does people think about the idea of?

E.g - Bronze 3 to Bronze 2.

Need to win 5 (or 6) match to move to Bronze 2, everytime you win get a token, but if you lose you DON'T lose a token. So still need to win a certain amount of match to progress, but don't lose progress if you lose (due to whatever the reason, skill, connection or bug)?

Rudolph_Raindeer · February 2023

This is me one win away from GC. I have used protection shield for every single of these fights. Fun times…

I am a long time paragon.

FiiNCH · February 2023

I’m in diamond 1 and this is the hardest I’ve had to work to get into the GC in any season so far. My main frustration is this seasons VT node, not the matchmaking. These nuke meta’s are god awful.

GroundedWisdom · February 2023

FiiNCH said:
I’m in diamond 1 and this is the hardest I’ve had to work to get into the GC in any season so far. My main frustration is this seasons VT node, not the matchmaking. These nuke meta’s are god awful.

Yes, it's pretty precarious. You're fine unless you miss one move.

TyEdge · February 2023

DrZola said:

Nocko said:

DrZola said:
I think the game mode has some very significant issues that can’t be addressed just by making the BG store overly rewarding.

When I’m not getting disconnection issues (one out of two fights tonight, prevented my selecting final champs in draft), I run across things like this opponent…

Incredible skills in Silver 3 to pull that kind of fight off in this VT with suicides. Sure, maybe the team catches them using mods and cheating doesn’t pay, or maybe they don’t. Matters little to me, who winds up dropped back a point in a match that should have been a win.

Dr. Zola
To be fair
I’ve used NF against void a lot in this meta
And I usually get him down to 5%ish and then let him get me to second life before finishing off
I’m getting pretty good at timing it so I’m finishing with NF at 90%ish on second life
I’ve lucked into a very high 90’s
If you time it well, it’s very achievable
In 22 seconds? Getting hit and/or simply blocking just 4 times total? With suis?

Dr. Zola

I’d argue that’s actually the *only* way to do this. You get the massive attack boost. Void applies his damage to drain Nick quickly. You stack bleeds and time the kill right as you hit phase 2. Without suicides, you don’t take enough damage to hit second life. You don’t do enough damage to kill that fast.

Greekhit · February 2023

FiiNCH said:
I’m in diamond 1 and this is the hardest I’ve had to work to get into the GC in any season so far. My main frustration is this seasons VT node, not the matchmaking. These nuke meta’s are god awful.

You know why it is harder?
Because many mid skilled Paragons have limited their participation to daily objectives or completely quit BGs.
Expect season to season the skill level in VT to increase, since the lower/mid skilled players will be gradually filtered out.
In couple of seasons, expect Master allies players to sweat each other to make it to Gold.
VT setup is demoralising for people.
Time you spend playing doesn’t translate to any meaningful rewards, unless you are wining consistently, which for the vast majority of players is mathematically impossible to happen, since it’s PVP and always for someone to win, someone else has to lose.
Participation is doomed to wear off as seasons pass.

Graves_3 · February 2023

Greekhit said:

FiiNCH said:
I’m in diamond 1 and this is the hardest I’ve had to work to get into the GC in any season so far. My main frustration is this seasons VT node, not the matchmaking. These nuke meta’s are god awful.
You know why it is harder?
Because many mid skilled Paragons have limited their participation to daily objectives or completely quit BGs.
Expect season to season the skill level in VT to increase, since the lower/mid skilled players will be gradually filtered out.
In couple of seasons, expect Master allies players to sweat each other to make it to Gold.
VT setup is demoralising for people.
Time you spend playing doesn’t translate to any meaningful rewards, unless you are wining consistently, which for the vast majority of players is mathematically impossible to happen, since it’s PVP and always for someone to win, someone else has to lose.
Participation is doomed to wear off as seasons pass.

Exactly..I have cut way back this season and just doing the fight 3 fights objective. Spending all the extra energy farming revives for Carina challenge and when 8.2 gets released focus on that.

GinjabredMonsta · February 2023

Greekhit said:

FiiNCH said:
I’m in diamond 1 and this is the hardest I’ve had to work to get into the GC in any season so far. My main frustration is this seasons VT node, not the matchmaking. These nuke meta’s are god awful.
You know why it is harder?
Because many mid skilled Paragons have limited their participation to daily objectives or completely quit BGs.
Expect season to season the skill level in VT to increase, since the lower/mid skilled players will be gradually filtered out.
In couple of seasons, expect Master allies players to sweat each other to make it to Gold.
VT setup is demoralising for people.
Time you spend playing doesn’t translate to any meaningful rewards, unless you are wining consistently, which for the vast majority of players is mathematically impossible to happen, since it’s PVP and always for someone to win, someone else has to lose.
Participation is doomed to wear off as seasons pass.

This. I don’t even do the objectives anymore or anything for the season rewards. I just don’t see it as worth it. Not so much for the matchmaking but with the other issues on it. It’ll be interesting to see how this may be combated

GivMeABeer · February 2023

Appreciate all the quality feedback, opinions and thoughts related to my OG post. It’s not great to hear so many people are experiencing the same frustrations as me but I’m glad I’m not alone on this boat. Only hope kabam does take the time to see all this feedback and have legitimate discussions about how to improve BGs going forward.

DarkinEnder · February 2023

GivMeABeer said:
So not exactly sure how I want to start this post as there is so many factors to consider. The over arching theme is night after night when I finally have a stretch of time to sit and play BGs (after getting up, situating kids, going to work, coming home, dinner, kids to bed) what ends up happening is I alternate wins and losses, make no progress on victory track advancement and just feel like I wasted 30 mins to an hour of play time. Having this happen over and over it just really kills your drive, makes you feel like **** in terms of being able to improve your roster with the tokens in the store and just a frustrating state of mind in regards to BGs.

I’m paragon with a roster of R4s/R3 6*s and can’t get out of silver III atm. I loose matches for various reasons; playing poorly, bad draft, better competition ect. Having to string the 3x wins together is what is really killing things for me and wish there was a better way for progression outside of buying shields for every single match.

Idk, just my stream of thoughts about where I am at with BGs in general. Feel free to reply with good, bad, ugly ect; I’m open for a good discussion to see how other ppl are feeling with BGs.

honestly the bigger your account the harder it is to get through BGs, my account is at 600k rating and got to gladiator circuit pretty easily since i face people with similar rosters and progression as me(faced more than 10 modders through that journey and sent tickets to kabam) but my friends and alliance members who are paragon struggle to even leave gold or silver mainly because of the rosters and player skill you face. speaking of losing and winning, that is the most atrocious feeling as it geniuenly feels like you just sat there and wasted all your energy, resources, and time for nothing. matchhmaking is very brutal for higher level accounts which is why a lot of my friends decided to make baby acounts just so they can enjoy playing bgs without the constent need to sweat every game.

Wozzle007 · February 2023

I deleted the game last week after the start of this season. After playing the game since 2014 and logging in everyday for probably the last 6 years I just feel like I can’t do anything in the game. Losing every BG match at the beginning of the season is just insane. I‘ve loved the game for years and not sure if this is just a break from the game or total retirement. I do feel like my reaction time has dropped over the last year so that’s on me. But playing BG made me feel so rubbish at the game I literarily feel there’s no point in playing or expanding my roster further.

If this how Kabam wants to continue with the mode, it’s their game, they can do what they want. One of the most frequent responses we get to situations like this is “this is how the game is, if you don’t like it, stop playing”. For now I’ve decided to follow this advice.

Sir_Globalot · February 2023

Greekhit said:

TyEdge said:
Increase the tokens needed to progress. 2 becomes 3. 3 becomes 5. 5 becomes 7.

Award 2 tokens for a win, and take 1 token for a loss. Alternatively, 2 for a win, -1 for a 2-1 loss and -2 for a 2-0 loss.

This roadblock is exactly what stops me. I need to be “on” when I’m playing - free of distractions, awake and alert - or else it won’t work. That time is hard to come by, and now matchmaking is harder than ever.
I’ve always been big supporter of this idea.
Increase tokens needed per bracket at VT.
Award 2 for win, subtract 1 for loss.
Or the alternative point system you proposed, but I would do differently, as @DNA3000 had proposed:
+2 tokens for win 2-0
+1 token for win 2-1
0 tokens for loss 2-1
-1 token for loss 2-0
That would make the time spent in Battlegrounds worth it, since now if you don’t achieve a minimum of ~60% win ratio it’s basically a time/resources waste, and by definition most players aren’t achieving that.
Prestige matchmaking can remain throughout VT, since most players will met at GC and there will be filtered, to finally place where they really belong, compared to the competition.
Of course all these are good, and would made all players happy, but I personally doubt Kabam will move to that direction anytime soon, since it’s pretty obvious now that they made VT this way and insist on “equal” matchmaking procedures, because they want people to use these overpriced and low value (since they burn even if you win) Victory Shields.
I’m not against a company to try to monetise the game as much as they can, since I spend a respectable amount of money annually, but with this BGs setup they won’t achieve anything other than pushing players away from the mode.
No one will spend hundreds of units on very expensive Victory Shields in order to “escape” VT and reach GC, and that if you can achieve at least 50% win ratio, let alone if your win ratio is lower, then you are looking into thousands units.
If they rewards weren’t so good, Battlegrounds would have already been a dead mode.

I've logged in just to say this is a great idea. Even if they just upped the requirement to 4 tokens to progress and 2 for a win, 1 for a loss. If you lose 2 rounds, back to square one. Win 2, go up a rank. Win 1, lose 1, still have to win 2 OR win and lose.

It just takes a little pressure off whilst allowing people who invest energy or tokens to progress. Losses won't sting nearly as bad as climbing back won't be such a stress.

DrZola · February 2023

TyEdge said:

DrZola said:

Nocko said:

DrZola said:
I think the game mode has some very significant issues that can’t be addressed just by making the BG store overly rewarding.

When I’m not getting disconnection issues (one out of two fights tonight, prevented my selecting final champs in draft), I run across things like this opponent…

Incredible skills in Silver 3 to pull that kind of fight off in this VT with suicides. Sure, maybe the team catches them using mods and cheating doesn’t pay, or maybe they don’t. Matters little to me, who winds up dropped back a point in a match that should have been a win.

Dr. Zola
To be fair
I’ve used NF against void a lot in this meta
And I usually get him down to 5%ish and then let him get me to second life before finishing off
I’m getting pretty good at timing it so I’m finishing with NF at 90%ish on second life
I’ve lucked into a very high 90’s
If you time it well, it’s very achievable
In 22 seconds? Getting hit and/or simply blocking just 4 times total? With suis?

Dr. Zola
I’d argue that’s actually the *only* way to do this. You get the massive attack boost. Void applies his damage to drain Nick quickly. You stack bleeds and time the kill right as you hit phase 2. Without suicides, you don’t take enough damage to hit second life. You don’t do enough damage to kill that fast.

Literally, the only possibility, although I remain skeptical given the 22 second fight.

Whether legit or not, it underscores the issue I (and others) seem to be facing: run a pretty solid blast of Korg but lose a Silver 3 fight to a guy who threaded the needle on my defender.

And yes…that is the ubiquitous WiFi icon onscreen.

Dr. Zola

Skydad23 · February 2023

Rudolph_Raindeer said:
This is me one win away from GC. I have used protection shield for every single of these fights. Fun times…

I am a long time paragon.

Using the victory track shields is almost a guaranteed loss any and everything that can go against. You will hear me. It’s like the AI get uped or something. I have used everyone I’ve ever received and only won one match with one. My experience anyway.

BGs Killing my Drive

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