Paragon or TB and stuck in Victory track? Check this out

DrZola · February 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

Kappa2g said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Do you know how many of those are there from nefarious means? I think it's a bit of a jump to blame the Matchmaking for everything you see.
Oh great, so we have BOTH a matchmaking and modding problem then
I would be cautious about assuming that most of those accounts or even some of them are using “nefarious means.” It isn’t appropriate to make cheating allegations on forums and I don’t think OP has any way of knowing any more than you or I do about their legitimacy.

Dr. Zola
I didn't assume anything, and people are failing to twist my words. I said we don't know. The opposite of assuming, actually.

Really, no twisting required. And I was responding to the other person who took the next step from your previous comments.

Dr. Zola

GroundedWisdom · February 2023

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DrZola said:

Kappa2g said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Do you know how many of those are there from nefarious means? I think it's a bit of a jump to blame the Matchmaking for everything you see.
Oh great, so we have BOTH a matchmaking and modding problem then
I would be cautious about assuming that most of those accounts or even some of them are using “nefarious means.” It isn’t appropriate to make cheating allegations on forums and I don’t think OP has any way of knowing any more than you or I do about their legitimacy.

Dr. Zola
I didn't assume anything, and people are failing to twist my words. I said we don't know. The opposite of assuming, actually.
Really, no twisting required. And I was responding to the other person who took the next step from your previous comments.

Dr. Zola

I was responding to the "twist" you commented on, not saying you specifically.

Chatterofforums · February 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
I'm not making any such assertion. I'm saying, if you're going to provide evidence to support your case, you need to account for the possibility that some of those Accounts may be modding. Considering it's been a consistent issue since the inception of BGs, that's not unreasonable to consider.
What you keep doing is comparing the size of all the Accounts to your own, as if the Leaderboard is supposed to line up from biggest to smallest, and that's not the way it works. People reach the GC by winning consecutive Matches. They don't get defaulted to it because they're bigger than other Accounts.
If you belong there, earn your way up. That's all I can say. Posting about it over and over because you're personally offended by their progress is just redundant. We've talked about it for weeks.
Also, if you consider skill to consist of only taking out Accounts much smaller than your own, then you don't want a fair competition. You want a default system. That's not what I want. I want a competition that awards performance. Not a junk measuring contest.

So implying that some of those accounts might be there through alternative and unapproved means that you are implying that either Kabam is lying about removing modders every week or that they are doing a terrible job at it.

I also dont see why you would think you know more about people reaching GC through unapproved means than kabam employees, such an assumption is a bit much, even for you.

However, benefit of the doubt to you and let's pretend some of them didn't properly earn their way there, what about the rest of them and the rest of the lower accounts that aren't even in the video.

I guarantee a decent percentage of them are in GC in a legit way and again are only there as they don't have to face the stronger rosters while the stronger rosters stay stuck in Victory track and getting less rewards.

LJF · February 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
I'm not making any such assertion. I'm saying, if you're going to provide evidence to support your case, you need to account for the possibility that some of those Accounts may be modding. Considering it's been a consistent issue since the inception of BGs, that's not unreasonable to consider.
What you keep doing is comparing the size of all the Accounts to your own, as if the Leaderboard is supposed to line up from biggest to smallest, and that's not the way it works. People reach the GC by winning consecutive Matches. They don't get defaulted to it because they're bigger than other Accounts.
If you belong there, earn your way up. That's all I can say. Posting about it over and over because you're personally offended by their progress is just redundant. We've talked about it for weeks.
Also, if you consider skill to consist of only taking out Accounts much smaller than your own, then you don't want a fair competition. You want a default system. That's not what I want. I want a competition that awards performance. Not a junk measuring contest.

There are only two possible ways these accounts have reached Arcane 2: modding or matchmaking. There are no alternative explanations. Do you agree that both are problems that need to be solved?

GroundedWisdom · February 2023

Chatterofforums said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I'm not making any such assertion. I'm saying, if you're going to provide evidence to support your case, you need to account for the possibility that some of those Accounts may be modding. Considering it's been a consistent issue since the inception of BGs, that's not unreasonable to consider.
What you keep doing is comparing the size of all the Accounts to your own, as if the Leaderboard is supposed to line up from biggest to smallest, and that's not the way it works. People reach the GC by winning consecutive Matches. They don't get defaulted to it because they're bigger than other Accounts.
If you belong there, earn your way up. That's all I can say. Posting about it over and over because you're personally offended by their progress is just redundant. We've talked about it for weeks.
Also, if you consider skill to consist of only taking out Accounts much smaller than your own, then you don't want a fair competition. You want a default system. That's not what I want. I want a competition that awards performance. Not a junk measuring contest.
So implying that some of those accounts might be there through alternative and unapproved means that you are implying that either Kabam is lying about removing modders every week or that they are doing a terrible job at it.

I also dont see why you would think you know more about people reaching GC through unapproved means than kabam employees, such an assumption is a bit much, even for you.

However, benefit of the doubt to you and let's pretend some of them didn't properly earn their way there, what about the rest of them and the rest of the lower accounts that aren't even in the video.

I guarantee a decent percentage of them are in GC in a legit way and again are only there as they don't have to face the stronger rosters while the stronger rosters stay stuck in Victory track and getting less rewards.

I'm not saying anything about Kabam's ability. I said you can't tell everything from the Leaderboard.
As for your last point, you're saying you're stuck in the VT because you're not taking on Accounts like the ones you shared? Is that what you're saying?

GroundedWisdom · February 2023

LJF said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I'm not making any such assertion. I'm saying, if you're going to provide evidence to support your case, you need to account for the possibility that some of those Accounts may be modding. Considering it's been a consistent issue since the inception of BGs, that's not unreasonable to consider.
What you keep doing is comparing the size of all the Accounts to your own, as if the Leaderboard is supposed to line up from biggest to smallest, and that's not the way it works. People reach the GC by winning consecutive Matches. They don't get defaulted to it because they're bigger than other Accounts.
If you belong there, earn your way up. That's all I can say. Posting about it over and over because you're personally offended by their progress is just redundant. We've talked about it for weeks.
Also, if you consider skill to consist of only taking out Accounts much smaller than your own, then you don't want a fair competition. You want a default system. That's not what I want. I want a competition that awards performance. Not a junk measuring contest.
There are only two possible ways these accounts have reached Arcane 2: modding or matchmaking. There are no alternative explanations. Do you agree that both are problems that need to be solved?

I don't need to reiterate my views on Matchmaking. I've posted a number of pages on it now.
What I said was, they are based on the results in GC. Random Matchmaking, with whatever Bracket/Tier you're in. If they're advancing there, they're either earning it, or something else.
Is modding an issue? Don't think anyone would debate that. What we're talking about here is the fact that people are offended they're in the GC to begin with, while their own Accounts are still in the VT. Literally nothing to do with their own Losses.

Chatterofforums · February 2023

Dave7099 said:
You know what would solve a lot of this bickering?

Feedback from the community engagement team on if what we are seeing is intended or being worked on

100% agree, unfortunately we have been begging for feedback from the mods for months on this. Unfortunately, with the exception of one extremely vague response that didn't acknowledge anything, Kabam has been completely silent on this.

In the meantime, I'll keep doing whatever I can to increase awareness to the player base as many have no clue of this problem, but as awareness increases, so will community voices.

Chatterofforums · February 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

Chatterofforums said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I'm not making any such assertion. I'm saying, if you're going to provide evidence to support your case, you need to account for the possibility that some of those Accounts may be modding. Considering it's been a consistent issue since the inception of BGs, that's not unreasonable to consider.
What you keep doing is comparing the size of all the Accounts to your own, as if the Leaderboard is supposed to line up from biggest to smallest, and that's not the way it works. People reach the GC by winning consecutive Matches. They don't get defaulted to it because they're bigger than other Accounts.
If you belong there, earn your way up. That's all I can say. Posting about it over and over because you're personally offended by their progress is just redundant. We've talked about it for weeks.
Also, if you consider skill to consist of only taking out Accounts much smaller than your own, then you don't want a fair competition. You want a default system. That's not what I want. I want a competition that awards performance. Not a junk measuring contest.
So implying that some of those accounts might be there through alternative and unapproved means that you are implying that either Kabam is lying about removing modders every week or that they are doing a terrible job at it.

I also dont see why you would think you know more about people reaching GC through unapproved means than kabam employees, such an assumption is a bit much, even for you.

However, benefit of the doubt to you and let's pretend some of them didn't properly earn their way there, what about the rest of them and the rest of the lower accounts that aren't even in the video.

I guarantee a decent percentage of them are in GC in a legit way and again are only there as they don't have to face the stronger rosters while the stronger rosters stay stuck in Victory track and getting less rewards.
I'm not saying anything about Kabam's ability. I said you can't tell everything from the Leaderboard.
As for your last point, you're saying you're stuck in the VT because you're not taking on Accounts like the ones you shared? Is that what you're saying?

Of course you tap dance around without answering anything despite the proof, however, to answer your question, no that is not at all what I'm saying.

I'm saying it is completely unfair in a competitive game mode where we compete for rank rewards for path to be available where much weaker and less d developed rosters can get better rewards than those far more developed and who the lower rosters are allowed to bypass.

I am not saying nor have I ever said that I want to be facing those weaker accounts. What I'm saying is they shouldn't be allowed to get better rewards than players like me without having to actually face us. This leads to many possible solutions that have been discussed in these threads.

AverageDesi · February 2023

Meh. Just get gud.

DrZola · February 2023

AverageDesi said:
Meh. Just get gud.

Or get smaller.

Dr. Zola

AverageDesi · February 2023

DrZola said:

AverageDesi said:
Meh. Just get gud.
Or get smaller.

Dr. Zola

Aye. But those rosters would usually have comparable skills when pitted against their own roster. It's been a struggle sure. This is the longest i have taken to get to GC. But it was fun

GroundedWisdom · February 2023

LJF said:

GroundedWisdom said:

LJF said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I'm not making any such assertion. I'm saying, if you're going to provide evidence to support your case, you need to account for the possibility that some of those Accounts may be modding. Considering it's been a consistent issue since the inception of BGs, that's not unreasonable to consider.
What you keep doing is comparing the size of all the Accounts to your own, as if the Leaderboard is supposed to line up from biggest to smallest, and that's not the way it works. People reach the GC by winning consecutive Matches. They don't get defaulted to it because they're bigger than other Accounts.
If you belong there, earn your way up. That's all I can say. Posting about it over and over because you're personally offended by their progress is just redundant. We've talked about it for weeks.
Also, if you consider skill to consist of only taking out Accounts much smaller than your own, then you don't want a fair competition. You want a default system. That's not what I want. I want a competition that awards performance. Not a junk measuring contest.
There are only two possible ways these accounts have reached Arcane 2: modding or matchmaking. There are no alternative explanations. Do you agree that both are problems that need to be solved?
I don't need to reiterate my views on Matchmaking. I've posted a number of pages on it now.
What I said was, they are based on the results in GC. Random Matchmaking, with whatever Bracket/Tier you're in. If they're advancing there, they're either earning it, or something else.
Is modding an issue? Don't think anyone would debate that. What we're talking about here is the fact that people are offended they're in the GC to begin with, while their own Accounts are still in the VT. Literally nothing to do with their own Losses.

Don't expect everyone to read your 30,000+ post history to determine your views. In any event, I read this as you agreeing that there are no alternative explanations to these accounts being in Arcane 2 beyond modding and matchmaking. Please let me know if you disagree.

VT Matches are being mitigated by something. That much is clear. Hence the days and days of debates.
In the GC, they're facing random Matches within the Tiers. So if they're advancing past the first Tier in the GC, they're likely doing it on skill. Or other means.
What the OP is pointing out is that they believe these Accounts shouldn't be in the GC while bigger Accounts are stuck in the VT. What I'm talking about is further to that.

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Chatterofforums said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I'm not making any such assertion. I'm saying, if you're going to provide evidence to support your case, you need to account for the possibility that some of those Accounts may be modding. Considering it's been a consistent issue since the inception of BGs, that's not unreasonable to consider.
What you keep doing is comparing the size of all the Accounts to your own, as if the Leaderboard is supposed to line up from biggest to smallest, and that's not the way it works. People reach the GC by winning consecutive Matches. They don't get defaulted to it because they're bigger than other Accounts.
If you belong there, earn your way up. That's all I can say. Posting about it over and over because you're personally offended by their progress is just redundant. We've talked about it for weeks.
Also, if you consider skill to consist of only taking out Accounts much smaller than your own, then you don't want a fair competition. You want a default system. That's not what I want. I want a competition that awards performance. Not a junk measuring contest.
So implying that some of those accounts might be there through alternative and unapproved means that you are implying that either Kabam is lying about removing modders every week or that they are doing a terrible job at it.

I also dont see why you would think you know more about people reaching GC through unapproved means than kabam employees, such an assumption is a bit much, even for you.

However, benefit of the doubt to you and let's pretend some of them didn't properly earn their way there, what about the rest of them and the rest of the lower accounts that aren't even in the video.

I guarantee a decent percentage of them are in GC in a legit way and again are only there as they don't have to face the stronger rosters while the stronger rosters stay stuck in Victory track and getting less rewards.
I'm not saying anything about Kabam's ability. I said you can't tell everything from the Leaderboard.
As for your last point, you're saying you're stuck in the VT because you're not taking on Accounts like the ones you shared? Is that what you're saying?
I realize this is a charged issue, but I don’t think using ad hominems like directly questioning people’s game abilities or saying they are only “stuck” because they can’t bully smaller accounts is what we are supposed to be doing on forums.

It isn’t a leap to conclude that accounts with less than 500K rating have zero business in Arcane without a ton of help from matchmaking. I think someone who wants to safeguard the little guy would even agree that’s way too far to go.

Dr. Zola

I don't think it's questioning people's abilities to look at the results on paper. It's logical. If they were winning their Matches, they'd be in the GC by now.

DrZola · February 2023

A couple of thoughts…

No way an under 800K account (and especially not an account 500K or less) is advancing further through GC if in fact the GC is purely random matchmaking. Scale and size of roster is too steep a curve to climb at that stage for even the fastest thumbs. Cursory review suggests nearly all of the small accounts peter out around rank 450 of Arcane 1.

But…all of this makes me curious to know whether purely random matchmaking is actually the case in GC or whether other factors are still in play.

Dr. Zola

Denslo500 · February 2023

@Chatterofforums you have me convinced. It matches my experience too. I am still matching loaded Paragon accounts (I am a very early Paragon) and they are making smart matches, have perfect masteries for meta, and great accounts for meta. I am in Bronze II.
I'm lazy and don't deserve better and my masteries are all wrong for meta, but the guys I'm matching with should be GC easy.

@GroundedWisdom I've tried to support your side on this, but . . . dude. I guess you did allow for "nefarious", so you are at least in the "nefarious or broken" camp now.

Encouraging young players is good, but driving out the long term spenders will kill the game.

Disthene_T · February 2023

Oh, this all makes sense now! The matchmaking is designed to limit how many people make it to Gladiator Circuit at all! Kabam is trying to starve off the supply of trophy tokens that have been pumping everyone up.

The reason these low accounts are in Arcane 2 is because there is no one in Arceane 3 and lower. This means less than 2500 players are in GC. The weak accounts getting through are just a minor byproduct. It doesn't matter if a few dozen accounts get enormous rewards while cavalier or early thronebreaker if it helps prevent hundreds or thousands from getting them. And since the store prices are bad at those ranks, what you buy has less impact. Then after they R3 a few more 6 stars, they will be in the same boat as the late thronebreakers and paragons (stuck in gold).

This is for the good of the economy. The value of sig stone, rank up materials and shard had been plummeting because people had "too much" trophy tokens. This is market correction.

GroundedWisdom · February 2023

Denslo500 said:
@Chatterofforums you have me convinced. It matches my experience too. I am still matching loaded Paragon accounts (I am a very early Paragon) and they are making smart matches, have perfect masteries for meta, and great accounts for meta. I am in Bronze II.
I'm lazy and don't deserve better and my masteries are all wrong for meta, but the guys I'm matching with should be GC easy.

@GroundedWisdom I've tried to support your side on this, but . . . dude. I guess you did allow for "nefarious", so you are at least in the "nefarious or broken" camp now.

Encouraging young players is good, but driving out the long term spenders will kill the game.

I'm not driving anyone from anything. I'm talking about the system as it is now, and pointing out the lack of other perspectives.

Kabam Jax · February 2023

Hey Summoners!

A bit of a story for you...

One of the members of the game team messaged me last night with this thread (in our off-hours) and wanted me to pass along that they investigated the leaderboard after watching this video and the first ten accounts mentioned in the vid, "literally every single one of them was banned by our sweep today."

So a couple things to keep in mind:
1. Bans happen in waves, not continuously all the time.
2. "The system that bans [cheaters] and the system that [removes] them from the leaderboard is not the same system," and as we've talked about before, it takes some time to remove those accounts visibly from the leaderboards.

I know the intention with this video is more to call out the matchmaking and: we hear you.

We've stated before that matchmaking is constantly being evaluated and there are adjustments being planned for coming seasons; we've seen the constant conversation in the forums over the last month+. It is, however, worth noting that there has not been a single suggestion that everyone has unanimously agreed with. This is a solution that doesn't seem to have a solution to appease everyone; and therein lies the challenge.

"Fair matchmaking" is defined differently by everyone and, in some cases, Summoners demanding "fair matchmaking" are asking for matchmaking that best suits them.

We've also chatted about how BG is the first mode that isn't meant to be won 100% of the time. Every other game mode (excluding AW), you dedicate time and energy and you will end up with a W in the end. Because you are head-to-head with other Summoners, inevitably 50% of you are losing. It is completely reasonable that this shift in gameplay mentality causes discomfort and frustration.

Now, none of this is in defense of the current matchmaking - like I said, there are adjustments in the works - these are simply a few additional considerations on the topic.

Happy Friday, everyone.

Wolfman80 · February 2023

It is encouraging that matchmaking is still being looked at and evolved as we go from season to season. I also understand the difficulty in determining a one size fits all, when there are so many diverse views.

For me, a good test of matchmaking is that a player should be able to advance more easily with their main account than with their alt account. There's no skill differential in that situation, so it must come down to matchmaking. I struggle to understand and agree with any system that doesn't meet this requirement, although I appreciate testing it is not necessarily easy.

Chatterofforums · February 2023

Kabam Jax said:
Hey Summoners!

A bit of a story for you...

One of the members of the game team messaged me last night with this thread (in our off-hours) and wanted me to pass along that they investigated the leaderboard after watching this video and the first ten accounts mentioned in the vid, "literally every single one of them was banned by our sweep today."

So a couple things to keep in mind:
1. Bans happen in waves, not continuously all the time.
2. "The system that bans [cheaters] and the system that [removes] them from the leaderboard is not the same system," and as we've talked about before, it takes some time to remove those accounts visibly from the leaderboards.

I know the intention with this video is more to call out the matchmaking and: we hear you.

We've stated before that matchmaking is constantly being evaluated and there are adjustments being planned for coming seasons; we've seen the constant conversation in the forums over the last month+. It is, however, worth noting that there has not been a single suggestion that everyone has unanimously agreed with. This is a solution that doesn't seem to have a solution to appease everyone; and therein lies the challenge.

"Fair matchmaking" is defined differently by everyone and, in some cases, Summoners demanding "fair matchmaking" are asking for matchmaking that best suits them.

We've also chatted about how BG is the first mode that isn't meant to be won 100% of the time. Every other game mode (excluding AW), you dedicate time and energy and you will end up with a W in the end. Because you are head-to-head with other Summoners, inevitably 50% of you are losing. It is completely reasonable that this shift in gameplay mentality causes discomfort and frustration.

Now, none of this is in defense of the current matchmaking - like I said, there are adjustments in the works - these are simply a few additional considerations on the topic.

Happy Friday, everyone.

First, I'd like to say thank you for the detailed response that gives me a little hope something may be done.

Second, thanks to Kabam for taking the time to watch my video and promptly address the issues I addressed in it. I guess smaller YTers can make a little difference after all.

DrZola · February 2023

Kabam Jax said:
Hey Summoners!

A bit of a story for you...

One of the members of the game team messaged me last night with this thread (in our off-hours) and wanted me to pass along that they investigated the leaderboard after watching this video and the first ten accounts mentioned in the vid, "literally every single one of them was banned by our sweep today."

So a couple things to keep in mind:
1. Bans happen in waves, not continuously all the time.
2. "The system that bans [cheaters] and the system that [removes] them from the leaderboard is not the same system," and as we've talked about before, it takes some time to remove those accounts visibly from the leaderboards.

I know the intention with this video is more to call out the matchmaking and: we hear you.

We've stated before that matchmaking is constantly being evaluated and there are adjustments being planned for coming seasons; we've seen the constant conversation in the forums over the last month+. It is, however, worth noting that there has not been a single suggestion that everyone has unanimously agreed with. This is a solution that doesn't seem to have a solution to appease everyone; and therein lies the challenge.

"Fair matchmaking" is defined differently by everyone and, in some cases, Summoners demanding "fair matchmaking" are asking for matchmaking that best suits them.

We've also chatted about how BG is the first mode that isn't meant to be won 100% of the time. Every other game mode (excluding AW), you dedicate time and energy and you will end up with a W in the end. Because you are head-to-head with other Summoners, inevitably 50% of you are losing. It is completely reasonable that this shift in gameplay mentality causes discomfort and frustration.

Now, none of this is in defense of the current matchmaking - like I said, there are adjustments in the works - these are simply a few additional considerations on the topic.

Happy Friday, everyone.

A suggestion…

Why does it only have to be one way for matchmaking? Seasons are different for a reason—this one, for example, is more open ended than last one.

If the goal for this season was to make it easier on small accounts with less expansive rosters, then state that up front. If the goal for next season is to encourage players to have a broad roster and broaden existing rosters even further, then build around that principle.

No matter what you do, someone’s going to be at a disadvantage. I think acknowledging that at the season start (and trying to ameliorate it somewhat) might be a positive step—provided players can be confident there will be subsequent seasons where they may have more of an edge.

What’s missing for a lot of people now is a sense that hard work and effort in building a roster pays off in this mode. I can’t imagine that’s something the team wants.

Dr. Zola

GroundedWisdom · February 2023

There's more than one way to build a Roster. Not only vertically.

Ironman3000 · February 2023

Obviously, no single solution is liked by everyone, but no system will please everyone so that doesn't matter. There have been a few ideas that have been liked by enough people that IMO Kabam has enough to change the current system.

Vanitelia · February 2023

I'd like to see something where metas were based on other things and just not nodes. Let's have a rarity meta where everyone has to use certain rarities, or a class-based meta where each week, a different class is at the forefront. We see iterations of those in quests. It would level the playing field a bit and maybe bridge the gap between accounts.

Banhammer_ste · February 2023

A 50% loss rate is fine just not with the current progression system. As has been pointed out that makes progression almost impossible for a huge swathe of accounts. It's not that people aren't used to losing. They're not used to playing being a complete waste of time.

It's inevitably going to lead to the death spiral people have mentioned. It's not going to be worth playing for the bottom 50% so they'll stop playing. Then it won't be worth it for the bottom 50% of those that are left and so on until battlegrounds is a ghost town.

DanielRand · February 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
There's more than one way to build a Roster. Not only vertically.

Please explain how else you build a roster other than to grow it.

Also interested in your most likely contradictory commentary on the following: "Water is wet"

GroundedWisdom · February 2023

DanielRand said:

GroundedWisdom said:
There's more than one way to build a Roster. Not only vertically.
Please explain how else you build a roster other than to grow it.

Also interested in your most likely contradictory commentary on the following: "Water is wet"

You build a Roster for BGs in two ways. The most obvious is Ranking Champs higher. That would be what I referred to as vertically. The second way would be expansive, or horizontally. It's not just about having the highest Champs, especially when those numbers are few because of new Titles. It's also about Ranking as many options as high as possible to compete in whatever meta is being run that Season.
You need many options to increase success in BGs. Enough to account for drafts, Bans, Nodes, choices, whatever the situation calls for.
Having an Account with a few highly-Ranked Champs is not enough to compete in BGs with more filled-out Rosters.

Jefechuta · February 2023

Kabam Jax said:
Hey Summoners!

A bit of a story for you...

One of the members of the game team messaged me last night with this thread (in our off-hours) and wanted me to pass along that they investigated the leaderboard after watching this video and the first ten accounts mentioned in the vid, "literally every single one of them was banned by our sweep today."

So a couple things to keep in mind:
1. Bans happen in waves, not continuously all the time.
2. "The system that bans [cheaters] and the system that [removes] them from the leaderboard is not the same system," and as we've talked about before, it takes some time to remove those accounts visibly from the leaderboards.

I know the intention with this video is more to call out the matchmaking and: we hear you.

We've stated before that matchmaking is constantly being evaluated and there are adjustments being planned for coming seasons; we've seen the constant conversation in the forums over the last month+. It is, however, worth noting that there has not been a single suggestion that everyone has unanimously agreed with. This is a solution that doesn't seem to have a solution to appease everyone; and therein lies the challenge.

"Fair matchmaking" is defined differently by everyone and, in some cases, Summoners demanding "fair matchmaking" are asking for matchmaking that best suits them.

We've also chatted about how BG is the first mode that isn't meant to be won 100% of the time. Every other game mode (excluding AW), you dedicate time and energy and you will end up with a W in the end. Because you are head-to-head with other Summoners, inevitably 50% of you are losing. It is completely reasonable that this shift in gameplay mentality causes discomfort and frustration.

Now, none of this is in defense of the current matchmaking - like I said, there are adjustments in the works - these are simply a few additional considerations on the topic.

Happy Friday, everyone.

I mentioned before, I think a new prestige where the top 30 characters of every player get into, instead of only the top 5 champs, its enough to make the matchmaking better, it fixes sandbagging and fixes the big differences between players that we are experiencing.

GC has a lot of low level acccs because the big ones are in VT yet, so when matchmaking gets fixed, GC would be aswell

DrZola · February 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

DanielRand said:

GroundedWisdom said:
There's more than one way to build a Roster. Not only vertically.
Please explain how else you build a roster other than to grow it.

Also interested in your most likely contradictory commentary on the following: "Water is wet"
You build a Roster for BGs in two ways. The most obvious is Ranking Champs higher. That would be what I referred to as vertically. The second way would be expansive, or horizontally. It's not just about having the highest Champs, especially when those numbers are few because of new Titles. It's also about Ranking as many options as high as possible to compete in whatever meta is being run that Season.
You need many options to increase success in BGs. Enough to account for drafts, Bans, Nodes, choices, whatever the situation calls for.
Having an Account with a few highly-Ranked Champs is not enough to compete in BGs with more filled-out Rosters.

“Having an Account with a few highly-Ranked Champs is not enough to compete in BGs with more filled-out Rosters.”

As you progress to higher levels, that’s true.

To be fair, this would be 100% true across all levels in a fully competitive mode. But at lower levels—as evidenced by many of the accounts in Arcane already—getting lucky with your first several 6* and having a decent batch of 5* champs is all it takes to progress through VT. At that level, it’s more a matter of game knowledge and crystal Bingo.

And that’s something for the team to decide as a policy matter: should that level of shallow roster development be sufficient to progress as much as it currently is? Does the game need small accounts to play and progress more than it needs veteran accounts to do so? Is this a mode designed for everyone or certain classes of Summoners?

Here’s hoping it’s as much a matter of concern as Ajax indicates it is.

Dr. Zola

GroundedWisdom · February 2023

DrZola said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DanielRand said:

GroundedWisdom said:
There's more than one way to build a Roster. Not only vertically.
Please explain how else you build a roster other than to grow it.

Also interested in your most likely contradictory commentary on the following: "Water is wet"
You build a Roster for BGs in two ways. The most obvious is Ranking Champs higher. That would be what I referred to as vertically. The second way would be expansive, or horizontally. It's not just about having the highest Champs, especially when those numbers are few because of new Titles. It's also about Ranking as many options as high as possible to compete in whatever meta is being run that Season.
You need many options to increase success in BGs. Enough to account for drafts, Bans, Nodes, choices, whatever the situation calls for.
Having an Account with a few highly-Ranked Champs is not enough to compete in BGs with more filled-out Rosters.
“Having an Account with a few highly-Ranked Champs is not enough to compete in BGs with more filled-out Rosters.”

As you progress to higher levels, that’s true.

To be fair, this would be 100% true across all levels in a fully competitive mode. But at lower levels—as evidenced by many of the accounts in Arcane already—getting lucky with your first several 6* and having a decent batch of 5* champs is all it takes to progress through VT. At that level, it’s more a matter of game knowledge and crystal Bingo.

And that’s something for the team to decide as a policy matter: should that level of shallow roster development be sufficient to progress as much as it currently is? Does the game need small accounts to play and progress more than it needs veteran accounts to do so? Is this a mode designed for everyone or certain classes of Summoners?

Here’s hoping it’s as much a matter of concern as Ajax indicates it is.

Dr. Zola

People progress based on how they perform withing the competition. Not who feels they deserve to progress based on their Roster. That's what makes it a competition. We don't receive what the majority thinks we deserve. We receive what we earn within the confinement of fair play. As Jax indicated, what is seen as fair is a varying definition, but barring some kind of inappropriate manipulating, they're earning their Rewards. That much is on paper, in the data, and can't be disputed by any reasonable mind. Nor can anyone speak for their Matches being a cake walk based on the comparison of extreme differences.

Paragon or TB and stuck in Victory track? Check this out

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