I would like to add something to this.. I would dare anyone to give an example of ANY competitive mode, professional sport or anything at all... Where losing a match just slows u down instead of punishing u... The idea of losses not taking coins allows for brute force... Who cares if i lose.. i just gotta win 3 later... Does it matter if i lose 20 rounds in a row?.. winning 1 out of 10 will keep me climbing.. and that is not competition!
Think this get to the heart of it, and why we have different opinions
What part is the competitive mode and what part is the trail or just for the fun section?
My interpretation is that the VT is the fun section and GT is the competitive mode.
Your seem to believe the whole thing is the competitive mode.
If the intent was really that all of BG was only for what the top 30% most motivated players, And the other 70% should stay out,
Then i retract my criticisms, how ever if the vt is supposed to be the trial and GC is the competitive mode then i think they missed the mark
U gotta get thru VT to get to GC...the whole thing is 1 single competition not divided into 2... At this point it seems like u want a casual competition.. well then the argument would be.. how casual... Would u even partcipate if they made a "casual BG" with no rewards in it?
I have yet to see someone complain about the Matches because they want casual. They want to be able to participate in the game mode where they're at, without being marginalized.
I have yet to see someone complain about the Matches because they want casual. They want to be able to participate in the game mode where they're at, without being marginalized.
I'm going to collect a lot of comments from various other conversations we've had in the forums over the last little while to address a lot of this thread, so forgive me if you've heard this before.
"If you die to a boss in any fight, you can say “ well i took iff “x”% of his health let me buy a revive and continue... In bg, if you die, you can’t continue for where you were at so you a set back... No other part of this game has this effect." We have chatted in past about how Battlegrounds is the first true competitive PVP mode in MCOC. Previously, every challenge could/would end in success, with enough time, energy and resources. Naturally, this means BGs is going to be a departure for players and is bound to cause some discomfort. Every single matchup between two players means 50% of that matchup is receiving a loss; this is inevitable.
"Can you can really blame ppl for hacking it when kabam can make it fair and enjoyable from the start." Yes. Yes we can blame people for hacking. In no way does frustration justify cheating. The game mode is fair insofar as everyone is dealing with the same system, and trying to circumnavigate that system out of frustration, or any other motivation, is not tolerated.
Why not create a casual mode, too? A casual would not operate in the fashion laid out in this thread. We are not looking to give the same rewards for less work. We understand that the lens many Summoners view the game through is one of: "Where can I get the best rewards; that's where I'm going to dedicate my time." But simply putting time into BGs does not result in rewards, as previously mentioned; the PVP nature of the mode requires you to overcome other Summoners. We have largely found the highest rewards from this game mode are going to the players who are putting in the most time.
Are you suggesting that nothing about Battlegrounds needs to change? Not at all. And we've talked about it repeatedly on the forums. Changes are coming to Battlegrounds structure and matchmaking, some that may have been suggested in this thread... It won't happen all at once and needs to be changed over time to avoid too many moving parts, but the team is constantly evaluating the game mode and are looking for opportunities to make improvements; they have some good ideas.
We have chatted a lot, and seen a lot of conversations, about how this game is growing to a point where you cannot reasonably expect to do everything in a given month. We have seen the growing pains for Summoners who don't want to prioritize or make choices about what to play and what to let slip. MCOC is growing to a point where you should play the game modes you enjoy most. There's something for everyone, even if you're not looking for a competitive mode.
I would like to add something to this.. I would dare anyone to give an example of ANY competitive mode, professional sport or anything at all... Where losing a match just slows u down instead of punishing u... The idea of losses not taking coins allows for brute force... Who cares if i lose.. i just gotta win 3 later... Does it matter if i lose 20 rounds in a row?.. winning 1 out of 10 will keep me climbing.. and that is not competition!
It's not War.
Who said it was? Man u can't stop yourself from putting words on other people's mouth can u?.. Its a competition, losing should have its negative effect.. otherwise u could just be doing something non stop and reach the top... I'm just gonna ignore u cause every interaction with you is useless.. all u do is put words on other post to steer the conversation your way...
I would like to add something to this.. I would dare anyone to give an example of ANY competitive mode, professional sport or anything at all... Where losing a match just slows u down instead of punishing u... The idea of losses not taking coins allows for brute force... Who cares if i lose.. i just gotta win 3 later... Does it matter if i lose 20 rounds in a row?.. winning 1 out of 10 will keep me climbing.. and that is not competition!
Think this get to the heart of it, and why we have different opinions
What part is the competitive mode and what part is the trail or just for the fun section?
My interpretation is that the VT is the fun section and GT is the competitive mode.
Your seem to believe the whole thing is the competitive mode.
If the intent was really that all of BG was only for what the top 30% most motivated players, And the other 70% should stay out,
Then i retract my criticisms, how ever if the vt is supposed to be the trial and GC is the competitive mode then i think they missed the mark
U gotta get thru VT to get to GC...the whole thing is 1 single competition not divided into 2... At this point it seems like u want a casual competition.. well then the argument would be.. how casual... Would u even partcipate if they made a "casual BG" with no rewards in it?
Why are casual players so hurt that they can't compete?.. they are casual player!!!.. U can't expect to be casual and get all the perks . Its the way the world works.
I'm a casual and I'm not hurt about the fact that I can't compete. In fact, I DON'T want to compete. I'm not expecting to get all the perks and I'm not disillusioned to how the world works either. Why can't some people just understand the fact that others may not enjoy the competitive aspect of video games.
This guy acts like we're gunning for gc rewards and crying cuz we can't make it. That's not the case, at least it isn't for me. I just want vt to have fair matchmaking and a system that doesn't punish losing as harshly as it is currently. That just takes the fun out of the game making it a toxic environment.
The objectives reward you for playing 3 matches in total regardless of whether you win or lose. That's great, but after u complete it, you only stand to lose time and resources if you lose a match. All the time/effort/energy/tokens u spend will be meaningless until you manage ~2 or 3 wins in a row. Should my efforts not be vindicated cuz I'm playing casually/for leisure? Or am I only supposed to play 3 bg matches in 2 days cuz I'm a casual and don't want to sweat my ass off trying to win every game?
VT is part of the competition...It also has rewards... That's the problem . People are dividing VT and GC as separate competitions.. and its the same competition...if the win deduction didn't happen everyone would be in GC in a matter of time.. so yeah u would be gunning to it... Ok fine how about we ask for this... Lets ask Kabam to take out every reward for climbing tiers... U can only get them as u climb up in GC... Objectives every 48 hs.. thats fine; eliminate the loss punishment.. but you get 0 rewards till you start climbing up in GC...
At the moment and from last season even, I m happy if I get one win every two days, just to get these 200 tokens in bronze. I only play 3 matches every two days and that's it, first two seasons I ended up in Vibranium after a lot of work, but the frustration was unbearable (my account deals with every bug in the game except dexterity).
Can't wait to read this guys take on EOP if he can't even hang in Battlegrounds
These two aren’t very comparable, since they are very different. But let’s try it: Depending your Prestige and your account width, getting out of VT can be far more difficult than completing EOP. EOP forgives mistakes, and also you can always “buy” your way through with stashed items or units. On the other side, playing against 16k-17k Prestige sweaty players gives 0 room for mistakes. Also at BGs you can’t “buy” your way through (at least at a reasonable total price), because Victory Shields as they are now (burn even if you win, and cost 90 whole units) are ineffective and not so helping to skip VT tiers. BGs(VT) need many changes, in order to keep the mode alive.
I would like to add something to this.. I would dare anyone to give an example of ANY competitive mode, professional sport or anything at all... Where losing a match just slows u down instead of punishing u... The idea of losses not taking coins allows for brute force... Who cares if i lose.. i just gotta win 3 later... Does it matter if i lose 20 rounds in a row?.. winning 1 out of 10 will keep me climbing.. and that is not competition!
I personally believe that there should be some cost to losing in BG for a variety of reasons, but I wish people would not overstate their case on this way. I can think of *many* competitive situations where the only cost of losing is slowing you down. Titled Tuesday tournaments on Chess.com for example, which are not only competitive tournaments, they have actual cash prizes. In the NFL the only cost of a loss during the regular season is that you don’t win, you don’t go backwards.
The reasons for trophy penalties are specific to the current structure of BG. They don’t have to exist, but they do have to exist in certain designs, such as the current one. Changing that cannot happen in a vacuum. You would need to make major structural changes to the rest of the mode to to change that one thing.
I would like to add something to this.. I would dare anyone to give an example of ANY competitive mode, professional sport or anything at all... Where losing a match just slows u down instead of punishing u... The idea of losses not taking coins allows for brute force... Who cares if i lose.. i just gotta win 3 later... Does it matter if i lose 20 rounds in a row?.. winning 1 out of 10 will keep me climbing.. and that is not competition!
I personally believe that there should be some cost to losing in BG for a variety of reasons, but I wish people would not overstate their case on this way. I can think of *many* competitive situations where the only cost of losing is slowing you down. Titled Tuesday tournaments on Chess.com for example, which are not only competitive tournaments, they have actual cash prizes. In the NFL the only cost of a loss during the regular season is that you don’t win, you don’t go backwards.
The reasons for trophy penalties are specific to the current structure of BG. They don’t have to exist, but they do have to exist in certain designs, such as the current one. Changing that cannot happen in a vacuum. You would need to make major structural changes to the rest of the mode to to change that one thing.
I respect your answers since u put your time (sometimes too long but still respectable) You are right losing during the regular season of the NFL u don't go backwards.. It doesnt happen in BGs either.. u climb from Bronze 1 to Silver 3.. u get your rewards.. 1st match in Silver 3 u lose..u don't go back to Bronze 1.. U can lose 10 matches in a row and you will still be at Silver 3...
I find it Ironic that casual players are criticizing a competitive mode where competitive players ACTUALLY WANT TO COMPETE
I also find it ironic that you find it ironic that casual players want to play something casually.
Its almost like thats what they do. I also find it ironic that mostly likely if you get you wish and they make bg into a private playground your ranking will drop and you’ll prolly have less fun because the ppl you are prolly winning against are the casual who dont care that much and only dropped by for a few matches.
The entire point of Battlegrounds is that it's competitive. If you can't take a loss, don't play it. Focus on SQ or MEQ or Story stuff or Incursions or any of the million and one modes in the game. Don't try and act like everyone in the game doesn't enjoy a respectable loss or a clutch win just because you don't.
I find it Ironic that casual players are criticizing a competitive mode where competitive players ACTUALLY WANT TO COMPETE
I also find it ironic that you find it ironic that casual players want to play something casually.
Its almost like thats what they do. I also find it ironic that mostly likely if you get you wish and they make bg into a private playground your ranking will drop and you’ll prolly have less fun because the ppl you are prolly winning against are the casual who dont care that much and only dropped by for a few matches.
Who said u can't play it casually?.. U can play it ad much as you want; but what was my first claim about your post?.. U don't want to just play it... U don't want the playing experience.. you want to climb and get the rewards....
I find it Ironic that casual players are criticizing a competitive mode where competitive players ACTUALLY WANT TO COMPETE
Get to GC and compete all you want.
I'm already there and debating if i should push further and do the objectives or stay where i am since i get more trophies than the objectives give if i drop a tier in GC...and i had to make it thru VT btw
I'm going to collect a lot of comments from various other conversations we've had in the forums over the last little while to address a lot of this thread, so forgive me if you've heard this before.
"If you die to a boss in any fight, you can say “ well i took iff “x”% of his health let me buy a revive and continue... In bg, if you die, you can’t continue for where you were at so you a set back... No other part of this game has this effect." We have chatted in past about how Battlegrounds is the first true competitive PVP mode in MCOC. Previously, every challenge could/would end in success, with enough time, energy and resources. Naturally, this means BGs is going to be a departure for players and is bound to cause some discomfort. Every single matchup between two players means 50% of that matchup is receiving a loss; this is inevitable.
"Can you can really blame ppl for hacking it when kabam can make it fair and enjoyable from the start." Yes. Yes we can blame people for hacking. In no way does frustration justify cheating. The game mode is fair insofar as everyone is dealing with the same system, and trying to circumnavigate that system out of frustration, or any other motivation, is not tolerated.
Why not create a casual mode, too? A casual would not operate in the fashion laid out in this thread. We are not looking to give the same rewards for less work. We understand that the lens many Summoners view the game through is one of: "Where can I get the best rewards; that's where I'm going to dedicate my time." But simply putting time into BGs does not result in rewards, as previously mentioned; the PVP nature of the mode requires you to overcome other Summoners. We have largely found the highest rewards from this game mode are going to the players who are putting in the most time.
Are you suggesting that nothing about Battlegrounds needs to change? Not at all. And we've talked about it repeatedly on the forums. Changes are coming to Battlegrounds structure and matchmaking, some that may have been suggested in this thread... It won't happen all at once and needs to be changed over time to avoid too many moving parts, but the team is constantly evaluating the game mode and are looking for opportunities to make improvements; they have some good ideas.
We have chatted a lot, and seen a lot of conversations, about how this game is growing to a point where you cannot reasonably expect to do everything in a given month. We have seen the growing pains for Summoners who don't want to prioritize or make choices about what to play and what to let slip. MCOC is growing to a point where you should play the game modes you enjoy most. There's something for everyone, even if you're not looking for a competitive mode.
I would like to add something to this.. I would dare anyone to give an example of ANY competitive mode, professional sport or anything at all... Where losing a match just slows u down instead of punishing u... The idea of losses not taking coins allows for brute force... Who cares if i lose.. i just gotta win 3 later... Does it matter if i lose 20 rounds in a row?.. winning 1 out of 10 will keep me climbing.. and that is not competition!
It's not War.
Who said it was? Man u can't stop yourself from putting words on other people's mouth can u?.. Its a competition, losing should have its negative effect.. otherwise u could just be doing something non stop and reach the top... I'm just gonna ignore u cause every interaction with you is useless.. all u do is put words on other post to steer the conversation your way...
You're suggesting people go down for Losses. That's pretty much the same system.
Gonna comment on the OP because that's why we're here, but I do want to say that I really appreciate and agree with what Jax said previously in this thread.
Here goes: First of all Battlegrounds CAN be a lot of fun when things go right, however that is very rare. - Is that very rare? What kind of data pool are you pulling from to back this up? I've personally had pretty decent luck in BGs when it comes to bugs/modders/connection drop etc (assuming this is what you mean when "things go right" although that is a super vague statement), and while I could be an outlier in the overall population, so could an experience when things rarely go right. -
Way back when BG was in early beta everyone loved it. Then they added the tracks. The victory track is an okay idea with a horribly bad execution. “Lets take the sweatest players, mixed them with the casuals, and have them fight it out for rewards. “ - For the record, not everybody loved it, and I feel like there have always been those who do not prefer the format. However, the whole point of a competitive mode is to mix together players in a.... competitive... format. Casuals can still play with friends, but if casuals want the same rewards as "sweaty" players, then they should have to compete for them. The nature of the mode.
Idk, doesnt sound like much fun for anyone other than the try hards. But thats not the big problem. - Again, the whole point of the mode is that the harder you try (and presumably the better you play), the better you get rewarded. This can be alleviated but not really taken away unless the mode is fundamentally different.
Arguably, those two groups would separate after the 1st week or so, so not a major issue. The issue is the design. Having to win 3 matches + or - is ok but having people lose “wins” is a major design flaw for casual players. - What is the difference between losing wins and having to win 3 matches + or - , is that not considering the - ?
Sure the try hards dont care, but the ppl only playing 3 matches a day it becomes bad. - Anyone spending ~30 minutes/day on a mode may not be a try hard, but is certainly not casual.
Lets count the feel bads. 1. You lose the match. Ok it happens to everyone but it is a fee bad. 2. Now the awesome win you just got is take away. Hope you enjoyed it while it was there! 3. God help you if the game glitched for some reason between defenders going unblockable to parry not working to abilities not triggering, ive seen it all. - This doesn't seem to have much of a point.
Ohh, and lets not forget about matchmaking. - You proceed to not mention matchmaking or making any point about it.
So why should anyone who is not competitive play this format??? - They can, with friendly matches. They shouldn't play it in competitive mode if they dont want to be competitive.
All you do is make ppl feel bad every third match. - You actually undersell this point. They make someone feel bad every match, it just isn't always you.
Can you can really blame ppl for hacking it when kabam can make it fair and enjoyable from the start. Obviously, dont hack but if someone just did it for the milestones and didnt affect the competitive players would you blame them??? - I can't even begin to describe how incorrect this is. Even beyond hacking in any other game mode, hacking in a competitive mode literally directly impacts every single player that you face, and then everyone below you in the ranked mode. I would blame them for doing somethng wrong because the act itself was wrong, regardless of the percieved impact.
Just want to dig deeper into this mentality for a second. Life is hard, is not always fair, and can be unenjoyable. Does that give people the right to take what makes your life enjoayble for themselves? Maybe you have a really whack morality system, but I assume that doing the wrong thing -and- negatively affecting others (or yourself) typically checks the box for worthy of blame. I'll also not go into the widespread ramifications of negatively affecting a system by doing things against the rules when others don't because "it doesn't affect them".
Kabam has locked the best store in the game behind the most painful experience in the game. All to make an extra few dollars on victory shield. - Most painful is subjective, and I doubt that victory shields is where they are making the most money when it comes to BGs.
Its shameful, I would argue that countenancing cheating is far more shameful than the actual actions and design of Kabam here.
I encourage ppl to play it as little as possible - Advice that people can take if they think your arguments hold merit.
Thank you Probably the best part of the whole post. I do prefer when people wrap things up in a respecful way.
Overall, not the best argument against BGs, nor extremely compelling. Hopefully I wasn't unreasonably rude or anything, but I wanted to add my thoughts what I tried to make a productive way.
I would like to add something to this.. I would dare anyone to give an example of ANY competitive mode, professional sport or anything at all... Where losing a match just slows u down instead of punishing u... The idea of losses not taking coins allows for brute force... Who cares if i lose.. i just gotta win 3 later... Does it matter if i lose 20 rounds in a row?.. winning 1 out of 10 will keep me climbing.. and that is not competition!
I personally believe that there should be some cost to losing in BG for a variety of reasons, but I wish people would not overstate their case on this way. I can think of *many* competitive situations where the only cost of losing is slowing you down. Titled Tuesday tournaments on Chess.com for example, which are not only competitive tournaments, they have actual cash prizes. In the NFL the only cost of a loss during the regular season is that you don’t win, you don’t go backwards.
The reasons for trophy penalties are specific to the current structure of BG. They don’t have to exist, but they do have to exist in certain designs, such as the current one. Changing that cannot happen in a vacuum. You would need to make major structural changes to the rest of the mode to to change that one thing.
I wasn't going to argue this logic but I love football too much to let the NFL comment go unchallenged. If 2 teams in same division and ties for first place in their division with 8 and 8 record and one team wins and the other team loses that last game, well their winning % goes down and they are most likely eliminated from the playoffs while the team that won would clinch the division and go Into the playoffs.
Is that technically "backwards" well, pretty darn close as that one loss cost that team the chance to go into the playoffs and the chance to compete for the Superbowl while the team that won is in the running for the Lombardi trophy. Of course I'm assuming that other teams in the running for the "wild card" spot in the conference had better than a 8 win 9 loss record.
Sorry for being overly technical, but ya, I love football.
I find it Ironic that casual players are criticizing a competitive mode where competitive players ACTUALLY WANT TO COMPETE
Get to GC and compete all you want.
I'm already there and debating if i should push further and do the objectives or stay where i am since i get more trophies than the objectives give if i drop a tier in GC...and i had to make it thru VT btw
So you're in the place people can compete, you have what you want. Let casual players who don't want that story is competition, play vt and rest
I find it Ironic that casual players are criticizing a competitive mode where competitive players ACTUALLY WANT TO COMPETE
I also find it ironic that you find it ironic that casual players want to play something casually.
Its almost like thats what they do. I also find it ironic that mostly likely if you get you wish and they make bg into a private playground your ranking will drop and you’ll prolly have less fun because the ppl you are prolly winning against are the casual who dont care that much and only dropped by for a few matches.
I find it Ironic that casual players are criticizing a competitive mode where competitive players ACTUALLY WANT TO COMPETE
Get to GC and compete all you want.
I'm already there and debating if i should push further and do the objectives or stay where i am since i get more trophies than the objectives give if i drop a tier in GC...and i had to make it thru VT btw
So you're in the place people can compete, you have what you want. Let casual players who don't want that story is competition, play vt and rest
And who is telling them not to play?.. its not about playing.. they can play all day if they want.. but they want the rewards just for playing...take away the coin/trophy on a loss.. basically not being punished for a loss...
I would like to add something to this.. I would dare anyone to give an example of ANY competitive mode, professional sport or anything at all... Where losing a match just slows u down instead of punishing u... The idea of losses not taking coins allows for brute force... Who cares if i lose.. i just gotta win 3 later... Does it matter if i lose 20 rounds in a row?.. winning 1 out of 10 will keep me climbing.. and that is not competition!
I personally believe that there should be some cost to losing in BG for a variety of reasons, but I wish people would not overstate their case on this way. I can think of *many* competitive situations where the only cost of losing is slowing you down. Titled Tuesday tournaments on Chess.com for example, which are not only competitive tournaments, they have actual cash prizes. In the NFL the only cost of a loss during the regular season is that you don’t win, you don’t go backwards.
The reasons for trophy penalties are specific to the current structure of BG. They don’t have to exist, but they do have to exist in certain designs, such as the current one. Changing that cannot happen in a vacuum. You would need to make major structural changes to the rest of the mode to to change that one thing.
I wasn't going to argue this logic but I love football too much to let the NFL comment go unchallenged. If 2 teams in same division and ties for first place in their division with 8 and 8 record and one team wins and the other team loses that last game, well their winning % goes down and they are most likely eliminated from the playoffs while the team that won would clinch the division and go Into the playoffs.
Is that technically "backwards" well, pretty darn close as that one loss cost that team the chance to go into the playoffs and the chance to compete for the Superbowl while the team that won is in the running for the Lombardi trophy. Of course I'm assuming that other teams in the running for the "wild card" spot in the conference had better than a 8 win 9 loss record.
Sorry for being overly technical, but ya, I love football.
Yeah this wasn't the best analogy. You can't apply Brute Force to anything when you have a limited number of attempts (i.e. NFL Teams only get 17 games). I think a better example would be something like a fishing or hunting competition where although there is some kind of time limit, you can continue to keep searching again and again to find a bigger catch than the one you have.
VT can't be considered a competitive mode with the current matchmaking. If they put people in bands based on their roster, and don't allow them to fight outside of those bands, then it's just a stepping stone to get to the real competition which is the GC.
I would like to add something to this.. I would dare anyone to give an example of ANY competitive mode, professional sport or anything at all... Where losing a match just slows u down instead of punishing u... The idea of losses not taking coins allows for brute force... Who cares if i lose.. i just gotta win 3 later... Does it matter if i lose 20 rounds in a row?.. winning 1 out of 10 will keep me climbing.. and that is not competition!
I personally believe that there should be some cost to losing in BG for a variety of reasons, but I wish people would not overstate their case on this way. I can think of *many* competitive situations where the only cost of losing is slowing you down. Titled Tuesday tournaments on Chess.com for example, which are not only competitive tournaments, they have actual cash prizes. In the NFL the only cost of a loss during the regular season is that you don’t win, you don’t go backwards.
The reasons for trophy penalties are specific to the current structure of BG. They don’t have to exist, but they do have to exist in certain designs, such as the current one. Changing that cannot happen in a vacuum. You would need to make major structural changes to the rest of the mode to to change that one thing.
It all depends on what they decide to do w/ matchmaking.
If they want to continue with their prestige bands, then I'm fine with dropping the loss of tokens and having the "penalty" be a slower climb. If they go to random matchmaking w/i a tier (like GC) then losing tokens makes sense.
Basically, if rosters/prestige/hero rating plays into the matchmaking then there should be no token loss because that is not true competition. If it's completely random matchmaking w/o a tier then there should be token loss because that is true competition.
So... Lets say u play 3 matches a day.. What the casual player wants in a "competitive mode" Day 1 Bronze 3: Win 2 Lose 1 Promoted (reward) Day 2: Bronze 2: Win 2 Lose 1 Promoted (reward) Day 3: Bronze 1: Win 2 Lose 1 Promoted (Reward) Day 4: Silver 3: Win 2 Lose 1 2 coins!!! Day 5: Silver 3: Win 2 Lose 1 Promoted (Reward!!) Day 6: Silver 2: Win 2 Lose 1 Promoted!! (Reward!!)
How on earth is this about playing a mode and not the rewards...
What if day 1 you win 2 but you lost 1 in between? Your flawed example has the first few losses not mean anything. So going along you'd hit the bottom bronze 2 by the end of day 2.
This also assumes a win/loss rate of 66% which most casual players are more than likely going to be seeing a more 50/50 win loss rate. So to fix your example
Day 1: Bronze 3 win 1 lose 1 win 1 (you have 1 token) Day 2: bronze 3 win 2 lose 1 (you are bottom of bronze 2) Day 3: bronze 2 win 1 lose 2 Day 4: win 2 lose 1 (promotion yay) Day 5 somehow win 2 lose 1 yay another promotion Day 6: win 2 lose 1 Day 7: win 1 lose 2 Day 8 win 2 lose 1 Day 9 win 1 lose 2.
Can you see the frustration players can have trying to get 3 wins without using victory shields?
Comments
What part is the competitive mode and what part is the trail or just for the fun section?
My interpretation is that the VT is the fun section and GT is the competitive mode.
Your seem to believe the whole thing is the competitive mode.
If the intent was really that all of BG was only for what the top 30% most motivated players,
And the other 70% should stay out,
Then i retract my criticisms, how ever if the vt is supposed to be the trial and GC is the competitive mode then i think they missed the mark
U gotta get thru VT to get to GC...the whole thing is 1 single competition not divided into 2...
At this point it seems like u want a casual competition.. well then the argument would be.. how casual...
Would u even partcipate if they made a "casual BG" with no rewards in it?
Its a competition, losing should have its negative effect.. otherwise u could just be doing something non stop and reach the top...
I'm just gonna ignore u cause every interaction with you is useless.. all u do is put words on other post to steer the conversation your way...
At this point it seems like u want a casual competition.. well then the argument would be.. how casual...
Would u even partcipate if they made a "casual BG" with no rewards in it?
If it is one single thing then why are there 2?
That's the problem . People are dividing VT and GC as separate competitions.. and its the same competition...if the win deduction didn't happen everyone would be in GC in a matter of time.. so yeah u would be gunning to it...
Ok fine how about we ask for this...
Lets ask Kabam to take out every reward for climbing tiers... U can only get them as u climb up in GC... Objectives every 48 hs.. thats fine; eliminate the loss punishment.. but you get 0 rewards till you start climbing up in GC...
Ppl try to put other motivations on it but the bottom line truth is its not fun for a lot of ppl right from the start,
Its not about rewards,
Its not about skill,
Its not about roster,
Its about fun and why.
I list my reason about feel bads in earlier posts, thats it.
So no, this is no fun at all.
But let’s try it:
Depending your Prestige and your account width, getting out of VT can be far more difficult than completing EOP.
EOP forgives mistakes, and also you can always “buy” your way through with stashed items or units.
On the other side, playing against 16k-17k Prestige sweaty players gives 0 room for mistakes.
Also at BGs you can’t “buy” your way through (at least at a reasonable total price), because Victory Shields as they are now (burn even if you win, and cost 90 whole units) are ineffective and not so helping to skip VT tiers.
BGs(VT) need many changes, in order to keep the mode alive.
The reasons for trophy penalties are specific to the current structure of BG. They don’t have to exist, but they do have to exist in certain designs, such as the current one. Changing that cannot happen in a vacuum. You would need to make major structural changes to the rest of the mode to to change that one thing.
You are right losing during the regular season of the NFL u don't go backwards.. It doesnt happen in BGs either.. u climb from Bronze 1 to Silver 3.. u get your rewards.. 1st match in Silver 3 u lose..u don't go back to Bronze 1.. U can lose 10 matches in a row and you will still be at Silver 3...
Its almost like thats what they do. I also find it ironic that mostly likely if you get you wish and they make bg into a private playground your ranking will drop and you’ll prolly have less fun because the ppl you are prolly winning against are the casual who dont care that much and only dropped by for a few matches.
Here goes:
First of all Battlegrounds CAN be a lot of fun when things go right, however that is very rare.
- Is that very rare? What kind of data pool are you pulling from to back this up? I've personally had pretty decent luck in BGs when it comes to bugs/modders/connection drop etc (assuming this is what you mean when "things go right" although that is a super vague statement), and while I could be an outlier in the overall population, so could an experience when things rarely go right. -
Way back when BG was in early beta everyone loved it. Then they added the tracks. The victory track is an okay idea with a horribly bad execution. “Lets take the sweatest players, mixed them with the casuals, and have them fight it out for rewards. “
- For the record, not everybody loved it, and I feel like there have always been those who do not prefer the format. However, the whole point of a competitive mode is to mix together players in a.... competitive... format. Casuals can still play with friends, but if casuals want the same rewards as "sweaty" players, then they should have to compete for them. The nature of the mode.
Idk, doesnt sound like much fun for anyone other than the try hards. But thats not the big problem.
- Again, the whole point of the mode is that the harder you try (and presumably the better you play), the better you get rewarded. This can be alleviated but not really taken away unless the mode is fundamentally different.
Arguably, those two groups would separate after the 1st week or so, so not a major issue. The issue is the design. Having to win 3 matches + or - is ok but having people lose “wins” is a major design flaw for casual players.
- What is the difference between losing wins and having to win 3 matches + or - , is that not considering the - ?
Sure the try hards dont care, but the ppl only playing 3 matches a day it becomes bad.
- Anyone spending ~30 minutes/day on a mode may not be a try hard, but is certainly not casual.
Lets count the feel bads.
1. You lose the match. Ok it happens to everyone but it is a fee bad.
2. Now the awesome win you just got is take away. Hope you enjoyed it while it was there!
3. God help you if the game glitched for some reason between defenders going unblockable to parry not working to abilities not triggering, ive seen it all.
- This doesn't seem to have much of a point.
Ohh, and lets not forget about matchmaking.
- You proceed to not mention matchmaking or making any point about it.
So why should anyone who is not competitive play this format???
- They can, with friendly matches. They shouldn't play it in competitive mode if they dont want to be competitive.
All you do is make ppl feel bad every third match.
- You actually undersell this point. They make someone feel bad every match, it just isn't always you.
Can you can really blame ppl for hacking it when kabam can make it fair and enjoyable from the start.
Obviously, dont hack but if someone just did it for the milestones and didnt affect the competitive players would you blame them???
- I can't even begin to describe how incorrect this is. Even beyond hacking in any other game mode, hacking in a competitive mode literally directly impacts every single player that you face, and then everyone below you in the ranked mode. I would blame them for doing somethng wrong because the act itself was wrong, regardless of the percieved impact.
Just want to dig deeper into this mentality for a second. Life is hard, is not always fair, and can be unenjoyable. Does that give people the right to take what makes your life enjoayble for themselves? Maybe you have a really whack morality system, but I assume that doing the wrong thing -and- negatively affecting others (or yourself) typically checks the box for worthy of blame. I'll also not go into the widespread ramifications of negatively affecting a system by doing things against the rules when others don't because "it doesn't affect them".
Kabam has locked the best store in the game behind the most painful experience in the game. All to make an extra few dollars on victory shield.
- Most painful is subjective, and I doubt that victory shields is where they are making the most money when it comes to BGs.
Its shameful,
I would argue that countenancing cheating is far more shameful than the actual actions and design of Kabam here.
I encourage ppl to play it as little as possible
- Advice that people can take if they think your arguments hold merit.
Thank you
Probably the best part of the whole post. I do prefer when people wrap things up in a respecful way.
Overall, not the best argument against BGs, nor extremely compelling. Hopefully I wasn't unreasonably rude or anything, but I wanted to add my thoughts what I tried to make a productive way.
Best,
Squirrelguy
Is that technically "backwards" well, pretty darn close as that one loss cost that team the chance to go into the playoffs and the chance to compete for the Superbowl while the team that won is in the running for the Lombardi trophy. Of course I'm assuming that other teams in the running for the "wild card" spot in the conference had better than a 8 win 9 loss record.
Sorry for being overly technical, but ya, I love football.
And i got my butt whooped
If they want to continue with their prestige bands, then I'm fine with dropping the loss of tokens and having the "penalty" be a slower climb. If they go to random matchmaking w/i a tier (like GC) then losing tokens makes sense.
Basically, if rosters/prestige/hero rating plays into the matchmaking then there should be no token loss because that is not true competition. If it's completely random matchmaking w/o a tier then there should be token loss because that is true competition.
What the casual player wants in a "competitive mode"
Day 1 Bronze 3: Win 2 Lose 1 Promoted (reward)
Day 2: Bronze 2: Win 2 Lose 1 Promoted (reward)
Day 3: Bronze 1: Win 2 Lose 1 Promoted (Reward)
Day 4: Silver 3: Win 2 Lose 1 2 coins!!!
Day 5: Silver 3: Win 2 Lose 1 Promoted (Reward!!)
Day 6: Silver 2: Win 2 Lose 1 Promoted!! (Reward!!)
How on earth is this about playing a mode and not the rewards...
This also assumes a win/loss rate of 66% which most casual players are more than likely going to be seeing a more 50/50 win loss rate. So to fix your example
Day 1: Bronze 3 win 1 lose 1 win 1 (you have 1 token)
Day 2: bronze 3 win 2 lose 1 (you are bottom of bronze 2)
Day 3: bronze 2 win 1 lose 2
Day 4: win 2 lose 1 (promotion yay)
Day 5 somehow win 2 lose 1 yay another promotion
Day 6: win 2 lose 1
Day 7: win 1 lose 2
Day 8 win 2 lose 1
Day 9 win 1 lose 2.
Can you see the frustration players can have trying to get 3 wins without using victory shields?