Absorbing Man Balance

I was fortunate enough to get AM from the new featured 6* crystal and after playing with him I have some feedback for the balance team. First, his play style requires a decent amount of skill to maximize outside of ideal match ups. For this reason alone I think he’s balanced on offense. People who invest in mastering his light intercept will get a lot out of him outside of buff heavy or immunity triggering fights. But most players won’t put in that investment and so I see little risk to overall balance in terms of attack outside of his target match ups.

Now I understand there are concerns about his balance on defense. I’m not objective , I have him and don’t want a nerf, but I get the concerns. I’m wondering if you couldn’t achieve balance by just reducing the cooldown where you can take him out of his form by heavy countering a special attack. If that was reduced from 20 seconds, even by half, I doubt people who have him would feel like their investment was wasted. More importantly it would give people on offense a means of countering him more reliably but not guaranteed. It takes skill to heavy counter but it’s doable. I don’t think reducing that cooldown ruins his defensive value but it does create a solution for people fighting him.

In conclusion AM is a great champ that takes a lot of work to master. His required skill outside of ideal matchups makes him balanced offensively and I think a fair compromise regarding defensive balance would be to reduce his cooldown for getting knocked out of form by heavy countering special attacks.

Or I’d personally be cool leaving him as is

. I’d love to hear people’s thoughts.

Comments

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Yodabolt21

If Galan, Rintrah and Scorpion were not balanced, then Absorbing Man 1000% should not be touched. It's still early, but so far (i have r3) he seems fine as is who thrives in some matchups and is average in others, just like every other champ.

If his special 1 was hard to punish, I may accept a small tweak, but you can dex 1 time (when inputs are working) and then heavy punish to basically shut his abilities off. His abilities are more counterable (I made that word up) than Spot, Titania etc... that make them a pain.

Colinwhitworth69

nice ab man going into the direction where namor and cull waiting for him but remember kaboom team if u guys nerf him I wnt my r4 resources back. simple thing

Won't happen. You obv knew the rebalancing system is in place and took him to r4 anyway.

Hopefully he does not get nerfed.

Worknprogress

No clue why some people keep insisting he's gonna be rebalanced. He's similar to Galan in that he's absolutely wild in certain matchups and just very good in others. On defense, the people I see complaining about him are people that let him refine his modes, that's just letting him become harder to fight for no reason.

Kabam Jax

Y'gotta love seeing well-articulated, thoughtful analysis of champion balance presented in as subjective a manner as possible!

It's one of my favourite things, seeing Summoners get their hands on new champions and really explore their playstyles; seeing this thread laid out like this made me smile.

I'm not involved in the balance process in any way, so I don't have as intimate knowledge about it as I do with other topics, but remember that most of the analysis is data-driven. So, theoretically, even if we see a lot of reports of players claiming a champ is "perfect as is," if the data tells a story that that champ is missing the mark in some way... changes are explored.

@Yodabolt21 I found this... it is a word we all need.

Pikolu

All I want kabam to do if they nerf him in 5 months is give rank down tickets that we can use, even if it is a small nerf, that small nerf might be a make or break point for some people.

Trafalgarwar96

I would only chance the way absorbing man pauses his forms....intercepting with light attack isnt so easy

FunnyDude

I like the utilities of AM, but no matter you admit or not, AM is totally broken, just look at these numbers:
- 20250 critical rating
- 9000 physical/energy resistance
- 9000 critical rating
- 300% critical damage

These numbers are just ridicules, they are not just slightly higher, but an order of magnitude higher than other champions, they should be seriously tuned.
I don't even know how he can be released with these numbers.

CyborgNinja135

I like the utilities of AM, but no matter you admit or not, AM is totally broken, just look at these numbers:
- 20250 critical rating
- 9000 physical/energy resistance
- 9000 critical rating
- 300% critical damage

These numbers are just ridicules, they are not just slightly higher, but an order of magnitude higher than other champions, they should be seriously tuned.
I don't even know how he can be released with these numbers.

Aside from the from the 9k physical and energy resistance, the other stats aren't easily accessible and require you to play skillfully. Believe it or not a lot of players can't light intercept, or heavy counter as shown with AM's boss fight last month. So while he looks busted, the skill floor is quite high. Add to that the fact that all those insane videos you're seeing are in his optimal match-ups. In regular match-ups he's slightly above average.

Not only that, Scorpion and Galan have damage that is just as bonkers as Absorbing Man's, easier to access and they didn't get nerfed.

AmaadAkira

He is honestly fine on offence. He only excels stupidly against like 3 champs and a unique combination of nodes. So just like Galan, nimrod, HT, even long shot.

Reducing his cooldown to knock him out of his forms is all that's really necessary, and maybe a slight bit on his regen (coupled with his insanely high physical and energy resist, it makes his regen even more overpowered).

RiderofHell

All I want kabam to do if they nerf him in 5 months is give rank down tickets that we can use, even if it is a small nerf, that small nerf might be a make or break point for some people.

We'll know in April what he's faith is lol

Zolobacsi

I like the utilities of AM, but no matter you admit or not, AM is totally broken, just look at these numbers:
- 20250 critical rating
- 9000 physical/energy resistance
- 9000 critical rating
- 300% critical damage

These numbers are just ridicules, they are not just slightly higher, but an order of magnitude higher than other champions, they should be seriously tuned.
I don't even know how he can be released with these numbers.
Aside from the from the 9k physical and energy resistance, the other stats aren't easily accessible and require you to play skillfully. Believe it or not a lot of players can't light intercept, or heavy counter as shown with AM's boss fight last month. So while he looks busted, the skill floor is quite high. Add to that the fact that all those insane videos you're seeing are in his optimal match-ups. In regular match-ups he's slightly above average.

Not only that, Scorpion and Galan have damage that is just as bonkers as Absorbing Man's, easier to access and they didn't get nerfed.

I agree. I barely can intercept with medium so whoever can do it with a light, deserves those numbers 😄

Almog233

Please make him in a way that medium intercepts will work as well basic intercepts are really hard to get and u can't get absorbing man's full potential:(

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Worknprogress

Please make him in a way that medium intercepts will work as well basic intercepts are really hard to get and u can't get absorbing man's full potential:(

He was made to have a high skill cap very much intentionally. That's one of the things that actually makes him balanced unlike someone like Herc that has multiple cheats built into his kit so that even the worst players can look like they know what they're doing with him.

HenriqueSCCP

I like the utilities of AM, but no matter you admit or not, AM is totally broken, just look at these numbers:
- 20250 critical rating
- 9000 physical/energy resistance
- 9000 critical rating
- 300% critical damage

These numbers are just ridicules, they are not just slightly higher, but an order of magnitude higher than other champions, they should be seriously tuned.
I don't even know how he can be released with these numbers.

I agree and also he regenerates a lot. The gameplay is only difficult for beginner players, for more trained players, intercepting the opponent with a medium or light attack is already easy.
When talking about nerfs, many crybabys already appear, I'm from the time of the Scarlet Witch nerf, I had it, I did practically everything with her, she broke the game. And when Kabam announced the nerf, there was no shortage of complaints and crying. I agreed with the nerf.

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Squirrelguy

Please make him in a way that medium intercepts will work as well basic intercepts are really hard to get and u can't get absorbing man's full potential:(
He was made to have a high skill cap very much intentionally. That's one of the things that actually makes him balanced unlike someone like Herc that has multiple cheats built into his kit so that even the worst players can look like they know what they're doing with him.

I know I’m probably gonna get some hate, but I feel like Herc could’ve been ever so slightly tuned down with little things like changing his heavy-charge gaining mechanism to make the player have to intercept with a heavy and not be able to parry stun and time the second hit for after.

Little things like that could have given him a similar ceiling but made the damage slightly more difficult to access. But hey, it’s mot the end of the world that they left him how he is. Still love his overall design.

MaxtheSilent

My R4 sig 180 is getting killed by most with 100% health in bgs so I don’t see why you’d need to make him easier. Players panic when they’re facing a new champ they don’t understand or have limited counters, I’ve heard similar arguments with hulkling and Peni.

After some more time with him and fighting against him I agree he’s not as difficult on defense as I originally thought.

HenriqueSCCP

My R4 sig 180 is getting killed by most with 100% health in bgs so I don’t see why you’d need to make him easier. Players panic when they’re facing a new champ they don’t understand or have limited counters, I’ve heard similar arguments with hulkling and Peni.

He used Human Torch, of course he will defeat it quickly.
I've faced him a few times and it always took a while, I had no HT.

Bocksarox

I’m wondering if you couldn’t achieve balance by just reducing the cooldown where you can take him out of his form by heavy countering a special attack. If that was reduced from 20 seconds, even by half, I doubt people who have him would feel like their investment was wasted.

I'm curious of the design intention behind the cooldown. 20 seconds does feel like a long time, and it's not as if attackers are frequently being heavy countered by the defense. I don't have an Abs Man, so I'm uncertain if the cooldown has any effect as an attacker.

If it doesn't, the 20 second cooldown feels a bit arbitrary, and I'd probably feel like the cooldown should be done away with all together. Abs Man rewards for skilled play. In the same way, I think the same benefit should be given to an attacker against a defending Abs if they are consistently able to heavy counter his specials. A heavy counter isn't the most difficult maneuver to pull off, but it could be quite punishing if it's screwed up.

To reiterate, as I brace for the disagrees, I don't have an Abs Man and I am in no position to question designers that know far more about this game than I do. My intention is not to call for a nerf, but to understand the design behind this character a bit better. I do think he should be left alone offensively.

Revenge_of_the_Nerfs

@Bocksarox 100% agree that eliminating the cooldown timer would be an appropriate adjustment for defense. When he’s got that timer going and he’s on a tough node in AW, there just aren’t enough counters. Torch, Void, Scorpion. Maybe a few others if you boost waaaaay up. Plus the adjustment will have basically no impact on offense, so people won’t take up their pitchforks (as much) to protest the move.

Axew

No offensive nerf tho plz

HenriqueSCCP

No offensive nerf tho plz

In defense he deserves to have a nerf, he already has absurd physical resistances or energy and with the doubling, an absurd regeneration, he is a champion that has few counters.

Mackey

No offensive nerf tho plz
In defense he deserves to have a nerf, he already has absurd physical resistances or energy and with the doubling, an absurd regeneration, he is a champion that has few counters.

For now .... give it a year and there will be a lot of counters for him whether that be new champs or buffs to existing champs.

Take peni, I'm pretty sure everyone said the same about her when she was released, there was only a few counters to her at the time but now? Nobody cares

AmaadAkira

No offensive nerf tho plz
In defense he deserves to have a nerf, he already has absurd physical resistances or energy and with the doubling, an absurd regeneration, he is a champion that has few counters.
For now .... give it a year and there will be a lot of counters for him whether that be new champs or buffs to existing champs.

Take peni, I'm pretty sure everyone said the same about her when she was released, there was only a few counters to her at the time but now? Nobody cares

This isn't something that should be commended. It's bad game design while selling the solution. The first people to have the best counters for Peni were people with a whole lot of money to splash on New Release Cavs. At worst, the problem and the solution should be released in the same month, not a year apart.

Worknprogress

No offensive nerf tho plz
In defense he deserves to have a nerf, he already has absurd physical resistances or energy and with the doubling, an absurd regeneration, he is a champion that has few counters.

He's fine on defense as well. You can shut off his modes by heavy countering alternating specials and he has no heal reversal protection so heavy debuff champs with despair or reversal champs either turn of or kill him with his regen.

Spiderclaws

No offensive nerf tho plz
In defense he deserves to have a nerf, he already has absurd physical resistances or energy and with the doubling, an absurd regeneration, he is a champion that has few counters.
He's fine on defense as well. You can shut off his modes by heavy countering alternating specials and he has no heal reversal protection so heavy debuff champs with despair or reversal champs either turn of or kill him with his regen.

As most players run MD, if you heavy counter his specials in most competitive content (without making a mistake), you're most likely sending him directly to another special because of your dex buff. Then there's a 20 second cooldown. Inside 20 seconds, he can easily throw 3-4 specials depending on MD.

Greekhit

No offensive nerf tho plz
In defense he deserves to have a nerf, he already has absurd physical resistances or energy and with the doubling, an absurd regeneration, he is a champion that has few counters.
He's fine on defense as well. You can shut off his modes by heavy countering alternating specials and he has no heal reversal protection so heavy debuff champs with despair or reversal champs either turn of or kill him with his regen.
As most players run MD, if you heavy counter his specials in most competitive content (without making a mistake), you're most likely sending him directly to another special because of your dex buff. Then there's a 20 second cooldown. Inside 20 seconds, he can easily throw 3-4 specials depending on MD.

The 20 second cooldown should be lowered or eliminated at all.
With maxed mystic dispersion he is busted on defence.
At AW he isn’t a problem since you can bring one of the few champs that counter him, but since BGs exist and you might won’t have on deck, and even worse even if you have a counter you need to be lucky to get it drafted, AM needs rebalance.
The problem is the 20 second timer, anything else on him is alright.

Worknprogress

No offensive nerf tho plz
In defense he deserves to have a nerf, he already has absurd physical resistances or energy and with the doubling, an absurd regeneration, he is a champion that has few counters.
He's fine on defense as well. You can shut off his modes by heavy countering alternating specials and he has no heal reversal protection so heavy debuff champs with despair or reversal champs either turn of or kill him with his regen.
As most players run MD, if you heavy counter his specials in most competitive content (without making a mistake), you're most likely sending him directly to another special because of your dex buff. Then there's a 20 second cooldown. Inside 20 seconds, he can easily throw 3-4 specials depending on MD.

And the like I said, debuff or reversal champs either shut down or kill him with his own regen...