More fun & interactive AI … how is this possible?

I dex the first medium, Kingpin takes a few steps forward, I prepare to dex again and then, BAM!

He throws a second surprise medium 2?

How is that possible?

I tried and tried and tried and tried and I am unable to do this.

Can anyone else do this?

Comments

unknown

This content has been removed.

unknown

This content has been removed.

o_o

Alright everyone, the engineering team has done a thorough investigation on this one!
Buckle up, it's about to get detailed. Here is what we know:

This is a bug, but not with AI behaviour!

The attack chain reset timer is based on attacks, it doesn't reset on run in (or even block, block react), and this is where the problem lies. Occasionally you'll get a medium 2 "out of nowhere." Usually summoners experience this as a whiff because only the first medium has a dash built in.

Summoners are able to accomplish this as well, it just requires the opponent to Dex/Evade and a very precise, nearly frame-perfect, medium attack. Our team was able to reproduce this as an attacker.

Some deeper analysis from the game team: "Although the defender did choose the 'wrong' attack animation in this case, the player would've been hit regardless. It might even be a disadvantage to the defender as they were subject to the post M2 cooldown and couldn't follow it up with a combo."

So, as a result, the bug is summarized as: "Attack chain index isn't resetting to zero for certain non attack states"

Because it came up during the investigation: what was the perceived disadvantage as an attacker in this situation? That the attack shouldn't have hit at all? Or that "the AI shouldn't have any tools that the Summoner doesn't?"
Ok, glad you found a bug, but your way to explain it is that it was my fault anyway?

Um, ok man. Whatever you say.

Like it or not, that M2 was accelerated and my controls were locked out of a block or a dex as soon as it happened.

You can see Spidey go into a block the second he recovers.

Wow. Thanks for the response man, but turning it back around on me is ****. Maybe take your licks that your game is bugged beyond belief and fix it instead of taking every opportunity to blame the player.

🙄

I don’t think the intended message was that it’s your fault? At least that’s not how it came across to me

unknown

This content has been removed.

AIRxJ0RDANx23x

Because it came up during the investigation: what was the perceived disadvantage as an attacker in this situation? That the attack shouldn't have hit at all? Or that "the AI shouldn't have any tools that the Summoner doesn't?"

Personally I think the attack chain timer should be reset on walk in. Because it requires a perfectly timed M2, I don't think its something the average player could do. When the AI walks in you will be expecting the animation for a M1 and not a M2 and that could cause you to miss a block/parry that you would normally get.

Manup456

It’s a lot more than just that bug he’s saying or that investigation came up with.

Just_Frank2022

Is it a bug? Or is the sentient AI making it look like a bug so the developers won't realize the AI has become self aware and can do whatever attacks it wants?

AverageDesi

Alright everyone, the engineering team has done a thorough investigation on this one!
Buckle up, it's about to get detailed. Here is what we know:

This is a bug, but not with AI behaviour!

The attack chain reset timer is based on attacks, it doesn't reset on run in (or even block, block react), and this is where the problem lies. Occasionally you'll get a medium 2 "out of nowhere." Usually summoners experience this as a whiff because only the first medium has a dash built in.

Summoners are able to accomplish this as well, it just requires the opponent to Dex/Evade and a very precise, nearly frame-perfect, medium attack. Our team was able to reproduce this as an attacker.

Some deeper analysis from the game team: "Although the defender did choose the 'wrong' attack animation in this case, the player would've been hit regardless. It might even be a disadvantage to the defender as they were subject to the post M2 cooldown and couldn't follow it up with a combo."

So, as a result, the bug is summarized as: "Attack chain index isn't resetting to zero for certain non attack states"

Because it came up during the investigation: what was the perceived disadvantage as an attacker in this situation? That the attack shouldn't have hit at all? Or that "the AI shouldn't have any tools that the Summoner doesn't?"
Ok, glad you found a bug, but your way to explain it is that it was my fault anyway?

Um, ok man. Whatever you say.

Like it or not, that M2 was accelerated and my controls were locked out of a block or a dex as soon as it happened.

You can see Spidey go into a block the second he recovers.

Wow. Thanks for the response man, but turning it back around on me is ****. Maybe take your licks that your game is bugged beyond belief and fix it instead of taking every opportunity to blame the player.

🙄

You're being really mad because you got hit . If you were really unable to move that's to do with input issues and not what kingpin did

BLEEDlNG_DGE

Because it came up during the investigation: what was the perceived disadvantage as an attacker in this situation? That the attack shouldn't have hit at all? Or that "the AI shouldn't have any tools that the Summoner doesn't?"
Personally I think the attack chain timer should be reset on walk in. Because it requires a perfectly timed M2, I don't think its something the average player could do. When the AI walks in you will be expecting the animation for a M1 and not a M2 and that could cause you to miss a block/parry that you would normally get.

I agree with this.

Additionally, when playing Scorpion, you can chain a double medium to an M1 to inflict 3 debuffs instead of 2 by parrying, M1, waiting till the stun duration is almost expired and connecting a double medium. The window to achieving this successfully is extremely small and if the combo resets that quickly as an attacker, I don't see how it's possible an M2 could've been achieved after a 2 step walk up as the team claims to have been able to.

Mackey

Hmm. This is an interesting one!

I've brought it to the engineers to see if they can sort out what's happening here!

Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Thanks, @Kabam Jax … I appreciate the response, but I am going to pile on to what @Manup456 said.

I happened to catch this on video, but stuff like this happens ALL OF THE TIME.

This is not a unique case and it kinda sucks that it’s gotten to the point where I feel like I have to record every single fight that I do to capture this kind of stuff or I will not be taken seriously.

In higher level game modes, it is constant. You can’t even punish heavy attacks anymore, without getting smacked by a special.

AI behavior is out of control … this kind of stuff isn’t fun.

Another thing I'm experiencing is the AI recovery from a special is more or less instant, champs I should be able to punish after their special end up dexing my attack ... or parry

Boogaloogler

Alright everyone, the engineering team has done a thorough investigation on this one!
Buckle up, it's about to get detailed. Here is what we know:

This is a bug, but not with AI behaviour!

The attack chain reset timer is based on attacks, it doesn't reset on run in (or even block, block react), and this is where the problem lies. Occasionally you'll get a medium 2 "out of nowhere." Usually summoners experience this as a whiff because only the first medium has a dash built in.

Summoners are able to accomplish this as well, it just requires the opponent to Dex/Evade and a very precise, nearly frame-perfect, medium attack. Our team was able to reproduce this as an attacker.

Some deeper analysis from the game team: "Although the defender did choose the 'wrong' attack animation in this case, the player would've been hit regardless. It might even be a disadvantage to the defender as they were subject to the post M2 cooldown and couldn't follow it up with a combo."

So, as a result, the bug is summarized as: "Attack chain index isn't resetting to zero for certain non attack states"

Because it came up during the investigation: what was the perceived disadvantage as an attacker in this situation? That the attack shouldn't have hit at all? Or that "the AI shouldn't have any tools that the Summoner doesn't?"

Could we see the video of the game team duplicating this as an attacker?

unknown

This content has been removed.

Kaizen_King

Only the AI has the ability to time and properly space this consistently… I mean, it has the precision of a computer AND, no thumbs. This is why it’s a fools game to sit there saying “we can do it too” right? We’ll never be able to exploit these subtle, wonky “loopholes” in the fight mechanics the way the AI can do so what does it matter if we can possibly do it too or not?

Squirrelguy

Alright everyone, the engineering team has done a thorough investigation on this one!
Buckle up, it's about to get detailed. Here is what we know:

This is a bug, but not with AI behaviour!

The attack chain reset timer is based on attacks, it doesn't reset on run in (or even block, block react), and this is where the problem lies. Occasionally you'll get a medium 2 "out of nowhere." Usually summoners experience this as a whiff because only the first medium has a dash built in.

Summoners are able to accomplish this as well, it just requires the opponent to Dex/Evade and a very precise, nearly frame-perfect, medium attack. Our team was able to reproduce this as an attacker.

Some deeper analysis from the game team: "Although the defender did choose the 'wrong' attack animation in this case, the player would've been hit regardless. It might even be a disadvantage to the defender as they were subject to the post M2 cooldown and couldn't follow it up with a combo."

So, as a result, the bug is summarized as: "Attack chain index isn't resetting to zero for certain non attack states"

Because it came up during the investigation: what was the perceived disadvantage as an attacker in this situation? That the attack shouldn't have hit at all? Or that "the AI shouldn't have any tools that the Summoner doesn't?"

I’ve actually had this happen to me once or twice before as an attacker in weird scenarios, so can confirm. I’ve done a M1, somehow missed the defender (it’s been a while, but I’ll assume it was through and evade effect) and they were a bit defensive and slid backwards and idled. My M1 was a bit of a feint/test, so I didn’t automatically follow up with another attack, and as the defender dashed back, my lack of control momentarily allowed my champ to start to follow forward. I then tried to intercept the opponent with a M1 into a 5 combo and proceeded to get spanked when I realized my combo timer had not run out and when I tried to follow up with a L1, my champ was cooling down and took a combo to the face when it didn’t register my L1 tap.

Not saying AI hasn’t been a bit wonky, and that there haven’t been extremely annoying strats that it uses that I would never be able to pull off, but often the moves it makes that I don’t aren’t actually the smartest or best moves overall.

Kabam Jax

Alright everyone, the engineering team has done a thorough investigation on this one!
Buckle up, it's about to get detailed. Here is what we know:

This is a bug, but not with AI behaviour!

The attack chain reset timer is based on attacks, it doesn't reset on run in (or even block, block react), and this is where the problem lies. Occasionally you'll get a medium 2 "out of nowhere." Usually summoners experience this as a whiff because only the first medium has a dash built in.

Summoners are able to accomplish this as well, it just requires the opponent to Dex/Evade and a very precise, nearly frame-perfect, medium attack. Our team was able to reproduce this as an attacker.

Some deeper analysis from the game team: "Although the defender did choose the 'wrong' attack animation in this case, the player would've been hit regardless. It might even be a disadvantage to the defender as they were subject to the post M2 cooldown and couldn't follow it up with a combo."

So, as a result, the bug is summarized as: "Attack chain index isn't resetting to zero for certain non attack states"

Because it came up during the investigation: what was the perceived disadvantage as an attacker in this situation? That the attack shouldn't have hit at all? Or that "the AI shouldn't have any tools that the Summoner doesn't?"
Ok, glad you found a bug, but your way to explain it is that it was my fault anyway?

Um, ok man. Whatever you say.

Like it or not, that M2 was accelerated and my controls were locked out of a block or a dex as soon as it happened.

You can see Spidey go into a block the second he recovers.

Wow. Thanks for the response man, but turning it back around on me is [childish retort]. Maybe take your licks that your game is bugged beyond belief and fix it instead of taking every opportunity to blame the player.

🙄

That's not at all what happened here. There is no blame to assign. We simply explained the set of parameters required to recreate it.

We acknowledged a bug and simply explained the engineer's investigative process. If your interpretation of that is that you're being blamed, not really sure what to tell you.

Regardless, the team is aware and will work to resolve it.

shut_up_heather

[childish retort] is too funny. However I do have to say that this probably is something that should be fixed/changed. It goes against what everybody in the game is expecting and considering it isn't something the player can reliably do, it seems super unfair when it happens.

unknown

This content has been removed.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Kaizen_King

Ok folks... here's how long this mess has been going on! Here's a post from March of 2018! FIVE YEARS AGO. Let that sink in. There are DOZENS of posts like this around this time (and since of course) including many of my own.

Especially read the 3rd post down from original post... sound familiar??? @ADDIS0N

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/56437/are-those-recent-changes-to-enemy-ai-intentional/p1

Kaizen_King

@Kabam Jax
Did you all hide this post? I can't find it in the first 8 pages of the forum, I can't search for it, and it's not updating to the top of the 1st page after I just posted to it?? The only reason I can still get to it is because I bookmarked it in my browser. What gives?

o_o

@Kabam Jax
Did you all hide this post? I can't find it in the first 8 pages of the forum, I can't search for it, and it's not updating to the top of the 1st page after I just posted to it?? The only reason I can still get to it is because I bookmarked it in my browser. What gives?

Strange