It was a change we all expected and honestly 48 energy for a guaranteed level 1 revive 6 days a week isn't bad. What I think is bad is the potion drops. A level 3 potion is pretty worthless considering we get a ton of those from just RoL which is 1 energy.
What I'd like to see is having the hard quest progression tuned so TB+ or Cav+ players get a level 4 potion minimum, preferably a level 5 or 6 potion.
Part of me expected this to happen eventually, but when you look at the content they put out it’s very disappointing.
EoP 3 for most players couldn’t be completed in 30 revives. I’m playing with T1 players and most of them were averaging 50/challenge because the challenges were so limiting. The translation here is that if we were to complete one of those challenges with the live changes it would cost you 800 units and you’d only be able to do 1 challenge per month while you waited for your stash to replenish, and oh by the way, spend 30% of your daily energy on a revive, not genuinely fun content.
Wow kabam thank you for showing once again how much you hate your honest player base. Modders do the content for free and get what a 7 day ban? What a joke. Those of us who are honest are now expected to pay for revives needed instead of being able to dedicate time and effort to farming resources needed. Making the decision to step away easier by the day
I have a better suggestion for the "spamming revives" issue.
How about adding a cooldown of like, 30 minutes before you're able to use a revive again?
That way people won't just spam them. They are either forced to play their very best so that they can get the max use out of their try, or either have to patiently wait 30 minutes to try again.
You can also add an option to watch like 5x ads to skip the cooldown. And another option to skip it via some additional units as well.
But no really, I hope this really doesn't give you any ideas for the future.
Seeing them nerf down revives and healing potions to this is making me think kabam doesn’t want us to have an easy gaming experience the ai already is difficult in the game with this change itll be even worse
Something I'm genuinely curious about in particular is this ..... "This frenzied revive farming trivializes difficult content like Carina’s Challenges and Eternity of Pain because Summoners simply spam revives" ...
OK, I get my head around that to some.extent or other but I am.still able to go and spend an obscene amount of money on units and buy revives that I can "simply spam" ..... so that's is no reason to be doing it, it's just an excuse (not even a plausible one). And this company (and their white knights) wonders why we don't trust what they say. They're quite literally.lying to our faces while asking for money
Correct It's not that they dont want to trivialize "difficult content like Carina’s Challenges and Eternity of Pain because Summoners simply spam revives"
The correct quote is They dont want to trivialize "difficult content like Carina’s Challenges and Eternity of Pain because Summoners simply spam FREE revives" Its perfectly fine to trivialize the content with revives if you buy an odin. Soulless money grab.
Right? ... they should just say that though, I genuinely believe they think we're all mindless and stupid lol. Like how did they think this announcement would go down, really 🤔 😂
If they were serious about revives "trivializing" the content, they would be item limits on that content. Which to be clear is also a bad idea but at least it's an honest solution to their "problem"
Instead they are just funnelling people to spend real money (or in game currency which is purchased with real money)
And to that i say - "No, i don't think i will."
I'm right there with you, I do believe that if they truly don't want us revive spamming our way through stuff then they should impose an in quest limit on consumables, I too wouldn't want them to but I'd rather that than this. Well I'd rather leave it as is actually lol
Im a very average player who comoleted 4/6 carina vol3 challenges. I averaged around 70 revives per run (much more on the hard challenges and a bit less on the easier ones).
I'm usually not one of those guys but this change might finally kill my enjoyment of the game. Having no option to farm that amount of revives means I have to rely on units for the revives.
I dont have much time to play everything in game since there is so much content lately. I value my free time too highly to play arena so completing content like carina vol3 will take me ages, because the only unit income I have are daily 22h solo event and 3 day alliance event (and calendars I guess).
There will probably be much outrage and no change but I still have hope they might change this system. I dont want to quit this game because I love it a lot. Like a lot a lot a lot.
That's my train of thought and my 2 cents, the rest is up to the devs.
You expected backlash and you’re getting it. Was this the intent. Will any of these concerns or constructive relevant criticism be acknowledged? Basically limiting ability to farm more than 1 a day and make it impossible to have a revive stash for long form content like eop, abyss, etc without spending a ton of units for those revives. Interesting that’s there’s no cap on revive purchases…
I have a better suggestion for the "spamming revives" issue.
How about adding a cooldown of like, 30 minutes before you're able to use a revive again?
That way people won't just spam them. They are either forced to play their very best so that they can get the max use out of their try, or either have to patiently wait 30 minutes to try again.
You can also add an option to watch like 5x ads to skip the cooldown. And another option to skip it via some additional units as well, why not.
That’s not the real issue. They don’t care that you’re using a lot of revives. They care that you’re not spending 40 units a piece for them
I admit, I'm somewhat removed because I never really farmed. I do agree that the exploitation of lower Resources has been an issue for some time. I think it's good that the "Halls of Healing" has found a somewhat more permanent installment. Also, they said farming will still be possible buy with less payout possibilities. So I suppose I'm indifferent. It would be nice to see a minimum amount purchasable through Glory, or one of the other Stores. However many that might look like. I've often wanted that when I'm stuck a few short.
You also by your admission haven't completed the toughest content so there would be no need to farm revives and not spend.
Time is currency for f2p Spenders use units
I have farmed revives a few times in the past but that was due to the difficulty of content. I assume they will be lowering difficulty now.
Oh my god, hiding behind the blanket of difficult content made easy is disgusting. THEN DISABLE/LIMIT REVIVES IN THE CONTENT. Oh wait thats not good, cause the players won't be able to spend money on revives. Let's make f2p players quit instead. Also what about energy refills???? Disgusting cash grab clown fiesta of a video game.
Having thought about this more I’m actually even more against this change.
As it stands there’s a few places our daily energy goes:
- Story - MEQ & side quest - BGs - Farming is currently semi neutral in terms of energy cost.
As an end game player I only have EQ and Bgs to worry about right now.
48 energy on a revive is nuts without a decent chance at refills. Am I expecting to use ~30% of my daily energy on a single revive, then do a single game of bg, and then toss a coin between a line in Act6/7 and the EQ?
There are literally no upsides to this. The only people actively farming are people actively playing your game for hours a day and are the ones most likely to consider spending on a whim or at big unit deal times. Doing this is not the way to generate loyalty. The only thing that this shows is that the motives are purely financial, and short term at that
I have a better suggestion for the "spamming revives" issue.
How about adding a cooldown of like, 30 minutes before you're able to use a revive again?
That way people won't just spam them. They are either forced to play their very best so that they can get the max use out of their try, or either have to patiently wait 30 minutes to try again.
You can also add an option to watch like 5x ads to skip the cooldown. And another option to skip it via some additional units as well, why not.
That’s not the real issue. They don’t care that you’re using a lot of revives. They care that you’re not spending 40 units a piece for them
From what I understand, they care about the level of challenge that the content they release provides. When you have Players sitting on stockpiles of Revs from farming and they're pushing through it the day it's released, that puts a strain on design. At least that's what I'm interpretating.
If this is implented you should also limit how many revives a player can buy a day with units. Wouldn't want players to opt-out and still be able to spam revives huh would we kabam?
What a mess. Literally anyone can see that this is just an easy money grab. Atleast owe up to it and say you just want more sales.
Without these changes, we risk having to cancel development on upcoming high difficulty content currently in the works.
That's not lip service or BS, I believe that 100% because simply put, it's happened in the past. Remember MCOC circa 2018ish when they slightly upped the difficulty of some content (don't even remember the actual event or quest) and the huge backlash of new-to-midtier players swarming the forums/socials, tweetering from the rafters *"this end game content is too hard for my 6 month old roster...but Im **entitled** to it (spoiler alert: they weren't) therefore this is unfair & unjust so now we scream until they cave"*.
And cave they did - we had like a 2 year drought of any exciting end-game content. I was really salty about that. So in that sense I'm glad they're ripping the bandaid off now rather than later.
My worthless $0.02 is simple - and I very well may be totally off base and I'm happy to be better educated by anyone affected - but if taking away an **infinite fountain** of revives puts your entire progression at risk, then you were playing content well beyond your means as it was, and that's nothing but a house of cards. It's gonna fall one day.
The higher rated players who use that particular farm **as a supplemental source** are who I empathize with, not so much those who use that farm as their own personal 'Doom God Mode/Contra Code'.
I do agree with dude above who said "they get the why, but not the how". Allowing for auto-fight in the quest just seems the best route to take for this overarching compromise 🤷
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
Any challenge requiring more than 30 revives requires units now. Pretty much all of the EoP challenges have required far more than this.
Another win for those, who use software to do the game. I already realize how much more money they will do on pure guys that cannot play this game perfectly😂 Kabam, please, stop bullying normal players and just punish cheaters🥵
Let’s be real. Do you really think anyone is going to bother to do the easy version of the quest for a level 1 and level 2 potion? No.
I doubt the legitimacy of your conclusion that 100-300k revives are farmed everyday. And if by some chance that’s actually accurate, I’d venture to say 50-55% are users using a bot that you can’t detect.
A better idea would have been a separate arena, with 10 milestone rewards that each gave a level 1 revive and a level 5 health potion, 10000 gold, and 2000 battle chips, and run it as a 3 day arena and have it run continuously.
Kudos for having almost 150 disagrees on that post in under 2 hours. Gotta be a record for this forum on Dev posts.
While I’ve never done any revive farming, I find it hard to understand why this was considered a bigger problem right now than the various input issues, numerous bugs in Battlegrounds, and the situation with cheating and modders. If revive spamming is such a major issue, why not just institute item or revive caps in quests like in AQ and AW? The cap could differ depending on what the content actually is (story, EOP, ROL, etc.) to allow more leniency in more difficult content. Surely that would help mitigate whatever problem is presented by being easily able to farm revives. The only thing this looks to achieve to me is increase the amount of units and money spent on revives.
Kabam since you’re so big on stats in your post and saying how many revives are farmed per day in the lower level content, please share what the AVERAGE revive cost was to complete Carina, abyss, or any other end game content.
Most days I have revives that expire because I don’t have to use them in everyday content. But removing the ability to spike my inventory for extremely difficult content is just stupid. Most ppl aren’t just farming non-stop all day everyday. It’s to complete specific content. And to be clear, kabam does not have an issue with its players using revives to complete content, they have an issue with the players not spending money to purchase them with units.
Whether ppl “grind” arena to get units to then purchase revives, or just “grind” lower level quests for revives the result is the same. The players are still using revives to get through content that is virtually impossible without for most players.
If you have to do this, just remove the inventory cap so at least we can save them for when big content comes out instead of watching revives expire 90% of the time.
Lol Kabam so out of touch man, I’ve been able to complete difficult content because of 3.2.6. Without it I probably would still be cavalier…. 1 revive a day is such a joke smh
I have a better suggestion for the "spamming revives" issue.
How about adding a cooldown of like, 30 minutes before you're able to use a revive again?
That way people won't just spam them. They are either forced to play their very best so that they can get the max use out of their try, or either have to patiently wait 30 minutes to try again.
You can also add an option to watch like 5x ads to skip the cooldown. And another option to skip it via some additional units as well, why not.
That’s not the real issue. They don’t care that you’re using a lot of revives. They care that you’re not spending 40 units a piece for them
From what I understand, they care about the level of challenge that the content they release provides. When you have Players sitting on stockpiles of Revs from farming and they're pushing through it the day it's released, that puts a strain on design. At least that's what I'm interpretating.
The content they designed is designed around the fact we are able to farm revives in the first place. There are probably a double digit number of players in this entire game that can get through something like a v3 Carinas challenge in 15 or less revives. It’s not worth doing that content if it’s going to cost a few thousand units to do a single objective
They tell us that they noticed a huge number of revive farms before the big contents.
This means that they have logs of everything that is done on the game. So they are going to punish the legit and/or free to play players ...But they don't do anything against the cheaters, especially all those who became recently Legend by cheating in incursions (we know the technique, a normal account, and the 2nd one who cheats, it becomes of course very easy to make 25 rooms). Or those who play in battleground by putting 20 millions shots...
I have a better suggestion for the "spamming revives" issue.
How about adding a cooldown of like, 30 minutes before you're able to use a revive again?
That way people won't just spam them. They are either forced to play their very best so that they can get the max use out of their try, or either have to patiently wait 30 minutes to try again.
You can also add an option to watch like 5x ads to skip the cooldown. And another option to skip it via some additional units as well, why not.
That’s not the real issue. They don’t care that you’re using a lot of revives. They care that you’re not spending 40 units a piece for them
From what I understand, they care about the level of challenge that the content they release provides. When you have Players sitting on stockpiles of Revs from farming and they're pushing through it the day it's released, that puts a strain on design. At least that's what I'm interpretating.
The content they designed is designed around the fact we are able to farm revives in the first place. There are probably a double digit number of players in this entire game that can get through something like a v3 Carinas challenge in 15 or less revives. It’s not worth doing that content if it’s going to cost a few thousand units to do a single objective
I can't say for certain that they're designing it around people farming, but if they are designing around the idea that people have an unlimited availability through farming, that's a whole other design issue.
People also wouldn’t have to farm the amount of revives they do if you would finally fix all the bugs, input, frame rate, and animation issues that have been plaguing this game.
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
People trying to complete content with no access to farming revives perhaps..
Just "people?" Sure, but which people who don't have access to farming revives? Everyone keeps saying this is a cash grab. But how many of them are actually planning on spending cash because of this cash grab?
It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.
I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.
Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.
If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.
The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.
So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.
This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.
I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.
I haven't been on the forums for awhile now but this one was worth the wait. I think it is ridiculous to remove revive farming. Even the most elite youtubers potion/revive farm at a minimum.
Kabam, I'm telling you now this will not go over well. We warned you about how hard act 6 and 7 was and this is the same thing. It seems like a great idea now but 100% I can guarantee you less players will play hard content and you will be forced to bring back revives or make content easier. Really consider this before you jump the gun again. The only reason why I spend now is to be first at things. With revive farming (which isn't easy and huge time waster) I can keep up with high level content and then it allows me to spend on items such as relics. You pull revive farming well, I pullout of relic offers and other deals. It is what it is.
Comments
EoP 3 for most players couldn’t be completed in 30 revives. I’m playing with T1 players and most of them were averaging 50/challenge because the challenges were so limiting. The translation here is that if we were to complete one of those challenges with the live changes it would cost you 800 units and you’d only be able to do 1 challenge per month while you waited for your stash to replenish, and oh by the way, spend 30% of your daily energy on a revive, not genuinely fun content.
How about adding a cooldown of like, 30 minutes before you're able to use a revive again?
That way people won't just spam them. They are either forced to play their very best so that they can get the max use out of their try, or either have to patiently wait 30 minutes to try again.
You can also add an option to watch like 5x ads to skip the cooldown. And another option to skip it via some additional units as well.
But no really, I hope this really doesn't give you any ideas for the future.
I'm usually not one of those guys but this change might finally kill my enjoyment of the game. Having no option to farm that amount of revives means I have to rely on units for the revives.
I dont have much time to play everything in game since there is so much content lately. I value my free time too highly to play arena so completing content like carina vol3 will take me ages, because the only unit income I have are daily 22h solo event and 3 day alliance event (and calendars I guess).
There will probably be much outrage and no change but I still have hope they might change this system. I dont want to quit this game because I love it a lot. Like a lot a lot a lot.
That's my train of thought and my 2 cents, the rest is up to the devs.
Time is currency for f2p
Spenders use units
I have farmed revives a few times in the past but that was due to the difficulty of content. I assume they will be lowering difficulty now.
Also what about energy refills????
Disgusting cash grab clown fiesta of a video game.
As it stands there’s a few places our daily energy goes:
- Story
- MEQ & side quest
- BGs
- Farming is currently semi neutral in terms of energy cost.
As an end game player I only have EQ and Bgs to worry about right now.
48 energy on a revive is nuts without a decent chance at refills. Am I expecting to use ~30% of my daily energy on a single revive, then do a single game of bg, and then toss a coin between a line in Act6/7 and the EQ?
There are literally no upsides to this. The only people actively farming are people actively playing your game for hours a day and are the ones most likely to consider spending on a whim or at big unit deal times. Doing this is not the way to generate loyalty. The only thing that this shows is that the motives are purely financial, and short term at that
What a mess. Literally anyone can see that this is just an easy money grab. Atleast owe up to it and say you just want more sales.
I definitely understand and acknowledge both sides of this coin.
However there's a sentence in that message that proactively addresses what my biggest concern was while initially digesting the info: That's not lip service or BS, I believe that 100% because simply put, it's happened in the past. Remember MCOC circa 2018ish when they slightly upped the difficulty of some content (don't even remember the actual event or quest) and the huge backlash of new-to-midtier players swarming the forums/socials, tweetering from the rafters *"this end game content is too hard for my 6 month old roster...but Im **entitled** to it (spoiler alert: they weren't) therefore this is unfair & unjust so now we scream until they cave"*.
And cave they did - we had like a 2 year drought of any exciting end-game content. I was really salty about that. So in that sense I'm glad they're ripping the bandaid off now rather than later.
My worthless $0.02 is simple - and I very well may be totally off base and I'm happy to be better educated by anyone affected - but if taking away an **infinite fountain** of revives puts your entire progression at risk, then you were playing content well beyond your means as it was, and that's nothing but a house of cards. It's gonna fall one day.
The higher rated players who use that particular farm **as a supplemental source** are who I empathize with, not so much those who use that farm as their own personal 'Doom God Mode/Contra Code'.
I do agree with dude above who said "they get the why, but not the how". Allowing for auto-fight in the quest just seems the best route to take for this overarching compromise 🤷
I doubt the legitimacy of your conclusion that 100-300k revives are farmed everyday. And if by some chance that’s actually accurate, I’d venture to say 50-55% are users using a bot that you can’t detect.
A better idea would have been a separate arena, with 10 milestone rewards that each gave a level 1 revive and a level 5 health potion, 10000 gold, and 2000 battle chips, and run it as a 3 day arena and have it run continuously.
Kudos for having almost 150 disagrees on that post in under 2 hours. Gotta be a record for this forum on Dev posts.
Most days I have revives that expire because I don’t have to use them in everyday content. But removing the ability to spike my inventory for extremely difficult content is just stupid. Most ppl aren’t just farming non-stop all day everyday. It’s to complete specific content. And to be clear, kabam does not have an issue with its players using revives to complete content, they have an issue with the players not spending money to purchase them with units.
Whether ppl “grind” arena to get units to then purchase revives, or just “grind” lower level quests for revives the result is the same. The players are still using revives to get through content that is virtually impossible without for most players.
If you have to do this, just remove the inventory cap so at least we can save them for when big content comes out instead of watching revives expire 90% of the time.
They tell us that they noticed a huge number of revive farms before the big contents.
This means that they have logs of everything that is done on the game. So they are going to punish the legit and/or free to play players ...But they don't do anything against the cheaters, especially all those who became recently Legend by cheating in incursions (we know the technique, a normal account, and the 2nd one who cheats, it becomes of course very easy to make 25 rooms). Or those who play in battleground by putting 20 millions shots...
There it's strangely radio silence...
It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.
I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.
Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.
If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.
The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.
So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.
This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.
I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.
Kabam, I'm telling you now this will not go over well. We warned you about how hard act 6 and 7 was and this is the same thing. It seems like a great idea now but 100% I can guarantee you less players will play hard content and you will be forced to bring back revives or make content easier. Really consider this before you jump the gun again. The only reason why I spend now is to be first at things. With revive farming (which isn't easy and huge time waster) I can keep up with high level content and then it allows me to spend on items such as relics. You pull revive farming well, I pullout of relic offers and other deals. It is what it is.