I fairly think this is one of the best decissions they could make, content is done too easily by people that are not even skilled enough to do it just spamming revives, so this encourages people to try to learn how to really play the game properly, not only this but makes the challenging things challenging, when people is able to do this content the first day it goes out just spamming 60 revives that means that something must be done, If anyone thinks that 2 revives PER DAY is not enough, that only shows how bad people became. Getting revives became way easier than before, so I think is fair to nerf the amount we can get by farming them.
The main problem I see here, is that they done this in the worst moment possible, since people need more revives because everything in the game is bugged, so they should have waited a little bit more to make this changes until they fixed at least half of the bugs they have currently in game.
And to be fair with Kabam, this is not a charity, this is a company, we already get almost everything free, I dont think its that bad to have to play more Arenas to get more revives for the hard content, or spending to get them.
I think its just a bad timing, but a really good decission, I expect a lot of disagrees but sorry fams, I dont think this is about opinions, since I repeat, you dont need more than 2 revives a day, or you shouldnt need them, If you need them then that means you are not playing properly, so you should try to change it, you dont wanna try to improve your skills? Then I think it is fair to pay for the revives then, and I say this being a F2P player.
Farming disagrees? How will that help your progression?
I've been back to the game for 3 months and that's all it took for kabam to ruin any hope I had of the game being better than 4 years ago. I quit, they only want whales to be able to progress.
Thank you for your feedback, we are reading every comment. Please keep your messages constructive; most of you have so far, thank you for that.
Based on the feedback in this thread, we have started internal discussions around adjusting revive/potion inventory caps. This is not a guaranteed change, but is what is most prominently being discussed.
These conversations will continue to take place behind the scenes and could grow to include other potential adjustments as well.
We will use this thread to provide updates if/when we have news to share.
If changes are made, PLEASE make a new announcement post with details. There is nothing worse than important game updates that are impossible to find because someone at Kabam posted a response in a thread that’s 500+ replies deep.
Thank you for your feedback, we are reading every comment. Please keep your messages constructive; most of you have so far, thank you for that.
Based on the feedback in this thread, we have started internal discussions around adjusting revive/potion inventory caps. This is not a guaranteed change, but is what is most prominently being discussed.
These conversations will continue to take place behind the scenes and could grow to include other potential adjustments as well.
We will use this thread to provide updates if/when we have news to share.
With respect, the game is broken and in an atrocious state. Kabam’s solutions to Battle Grounds will likely take 3 months or more to implement. The company can’t stop modders from stealing rewards at the same as blocking legitimate players by giving them losses. We don’t get Mastery updates we’ve been waiting over 4 years for. But this is what Kabam chooses spend its time on. So how does Kabam respond to the game being in probably its worst condition ever? To screw over legitimate players. Game is honestly eroding any of the good faith it has left with players. I don’t envy your job. You seem like a fairly switched on individual, but you must know how the player base would react to this. The vitriol towards Kabam is absolutely justified. It’s in no one’s interest if people stop playing the game but this decision will either cause a good chunk of people to either quit or cheat.
If you actually care about what you say instead of giving lip service, you would:
1. Admit that it's only ftp revives you are capping, but paid revives are no problem 2. Add a item limit to such quests to create a challenge 3. Still allow the biggest exploiters of loophole the game itself in the form of modding, where basically nothing is done about it.
Thank you for your feedback, we are reading every comment. Please keep your messages constructive; most of you have so far, thank you for that.
Based on the feedback in this thread, we have started internal discussions around adjusting revive/potion inventory caps. This is not a guaranteed change, but is what is most prominently being discussed.
These conversations will continue to take place behind the scenes and could grow to include other potential adjustments as well.
We will use this thread to provide updates if/when we have news to share.
This should not only be guaranteed but first of many adjustments. If the project is even to go through instead of getting scrapped, as it would be a valid option as well.
And since we're at it, I know we're discussing something else here but a comment on the AI thread would be nice as well. It's kinda related as what we're discussing right now is the removal of one of the only ways to mitigate that problem.
Thank you for your feedback, we are reading every comment. Please keep your messages constructive; most of you have so far, thank you for that.
Based on the feedback in this thread, we have started internal discussions around adjusting revive/potion inventory caps. This is not a guaranteed change, but is what is most prominently being discussed.
These conversations will continue to take place behind the scenes and could grow to include other potential adjustments as well.
We will use this thread to provide updates if/when we have news to share.
Lifting the cap on revives/potions entirely seems like the only fair way to address the difficulty of some of the more challenging content like EOP. It was designed around the state of the game at the time which factored in revive farming. The average player is not going to be able to handle that with less than 50 revives going into it. I feel like this is all just a roundabout way of nerfing Hercules without nerfing him. I think the reception would be better if you guys just ripped the bandaid and nerfed him already so content doesn’t need to be overtuned and resource farming doesn’t need to be completely shut down
Gotta love how kabam contradict themselves when they say ''without need to rely on RNG'' and even highlight this quote and the ONLY way to get a level 2 revive is by having a 5% chance after exploring hard mode and 1% chance of getting a level 1 revive after exploring easy mode PS: i know there's a garantee revive exploring the quest, i meant the additional one...why even made that quote when you clearly rely on rng in order to get more than 1 revive? LMAO
Thank you for your feedback, we are reading every comment. Please keep your messages constructive; most of you have so far, thank you for that.
Based on the feedback in this thread, we have started internal discussions around adjusting revive/potion inventory caps. This is not a guaranteed change, but is what is most prominently being discussed.
These conversations will continue to take place behind the scenes and could grow to include other potential adjustments as well.
We will use this thread to provide updates if/when we have news to share.
Please don't take this as anything other than constructive advice:
There is no reason to make the proposed changes or to address revive spawn or revive farming in any way. If the team honestly feels that spamming revives trivializes difficult content, put a revive cap on content. But if the game team really meant to say was spamming farmed revives (rather than purchased) then surely you'd let us know that for certain end game content revives would not be available for purchase in said content. If you care what the community thinks as purported, devs time would be much better spent addressing cheating and game control input issues.
I was going to say this.
I want to add that this is very unfair for newer players, who have not attempted any of the endgame content yet. Everyone who did Abyss and EOP before them was able to take advantage of revive farming, so why can’t they?
Thank you for your feedback, we are reading every comment. Please keep your messages constructive; most of you have so far, thank you for that.
Based on the feedback in this thread, we have started internal discussions around adjusting revive/potion inventory caps. This is not a guaranteed change, but is what is most prominently being discussed.
These conversations will continue to take place behind the scenes and could grow to include other potential adjustments as well.
We will use this thread to provide updates if/when we have news to share.
Or just don’t change anything and recant the announcement. Your customers are very upset
Not to be that guy, but you mean the customers who aren't paying and are farming? Lol. I get what you're saying, though. Had to say it.
He never said paying customer, Kabam are providing a service (the game and its modes within it) in exchange for one's time.
That statement is wrong, wrong as hell, there is no company that provide services for time, they provide services for money, so they can keep providing services.
The free to play players exist so the whales have someone to have better rosters than. If this game was just whales it would be a tiny community and they would all move to other games with large free to play playerbases, and then those games get their money, not this one.
Another thought on this: why is this change such a necessity while 22h, 7h, 3d, and SA rewards don't reflect how the game has been progressing? Especially the rewards for SA are out of date since what at least 2 years? If Kabam isn't boosting these rewards, they shouldn't be cutting off things that benefit players. Especially when the game is in a bad state right now.
Also what about changes and actions the community and player base has been begging for months? No permanent bans against modders. It's only fair to also listen to the player base's concerns. Not to mention bugs which there are tons of right now. Many of those are related to the AI like launching SP3 without 3 bars, coming out of stuns too quickly, randomly speeding up, etc
I fairly think this is one of the best decissions they could make, content is done too easily by people that are not even skilled enough to do it just spamming revives, so this encourages people to try to learn how to really play the game properly, not only this but makes the challenging things challenging, when people is able to do this content the first day it goes out just spamming 60 revives that means that something must be done, If anyone thinks that 2 revives PER DAY is not enough, that only shows how bad people became. Getting revives became way easier than before, so I think is fair to nerf the amount we can get by farming them.
The main problem I see here, is that they done this in the worst moment possible, since people need more revives because everything in the game is bugged, so they should have waited a little bit more to make this changes until they fixed at least half of the bugs they have currently in game.
And to be fair with Kabam, this is not a charity, this is a company, we already get almost everything free, I dont think its that bad to have to play more Arenas to get more revives for the hard content, or spending to get them.
I think its just a bad timing, but a really good decission, I expect a lot of disagrees but sorry fams, I dont think this is about opinions, since I repeat, you dont need more than 2 revives a day, or you shouldnt need them, If you need them then that means you are not playing properly, so you should try to change it, you dont wanna try to improve your skills? Then I think it is fair to pay for the revives then, and I say this being a F2P player.
Farming disagrees? How will that help your progression?
You should progress playing better, making your roster bigger, and getting resources playing if you dont want to spend money, but being able to farm the amount of revives you want because the challenges are too challenging for you is just nonsense.
If im not able to do X content, I shouldnt just spam revives, I should see why and fix it, If its because im not good enough, I improve my skills, if its because I dont have certain champions, I try to farm shards to look for them or grind arena to get those.
And as I said, I dont think they should make this change NOW, since the game is completely bugged, but it is not a bad change itself.
Ok before everyone disagrees let me put out some context. Of course we would all like things to stay as they are but that probably won’t happen but I think I came up with a decent solution.
What if there was a hard cap on the amount of revives we could have at once?
No unlimited revive farming into overflow, just a hard cap. I think a fair limit for this cap would be 50 of the t1 revives. That way most people could still do the content without the need for tons of arena or spending and we don’t run into the issue of people trivializing content by saving hundreds of revives.
Of course you could bypass this cap by spending units on t2 revives which won’t have the cap so if you really need to you can grind arena for those extra revives.
Again, this is just a proposed solution which I think is a decent compromise so if you guys want to add your voice as well feel free to.
I fairly think this is one of the best decissions they could make, content is done too easily by people that are not even skilled enough to do it just spamming revives, so this encourages people to try to learn how to really play the game properly, not only this but makes the challenging things challenging, when people is able to do this content the first day it goes out just spamming 60 revives that means that something must be done, If anyone thinks that 2 revives PER DAY is not enough, that only shows how bad people became. Getting revives became way easier than before, so I think is fair to nerf the amount we can get by farming them.
The main problem I see here, is that they done this in the worst moment possible, since people need more revives because everything in the game is bugged, so they should have waited a little bit more to make this changes until they fixed at least half of the bugs they have currently in game.
And to be fair with Kabam, this is not a charity, this is a company, we already get almost everything free, I dont think its that bad to have to play more Arenas to get more revives for the hard content, or spending to get them.
I think its just a bad timing, but a really good decission, I expect a lot of disagrees but sorry fams, I dont think this is about opinions, since I repeat, you dont need more than 2 revives a day, or you shouldnt need them, If you need them then that means you are not playing properly, so you should try to change it, you dont wanna try to improve your skills? Then I think it is fair to pay for the revives then, and I say this being a F2P player.
Farming disagrees? How will that help your progression?
You should progress playing better, making your roster bigger, and getting resources playing if you dont want to spend money, but being able to farm the amount of revives you want because the challenges are too challenging for you is just nonsense.
If im not able to do X content, I shouldnt just spam revives, I should see why and fix it, If its because im not good enough, I improve my skills, if its because I dont have certain champions, I try to farm shards to look for them or grind arena to get those.
And as I said, I dont think they should make this change NOW, since the game is completely bugged, but it is not a bad change itself.
Hey buddy, maybe stop talking nonsense about getting better when content like Carina with 4* Starlord exists? Hows that “get better” works out for you in that content?
KABAM specifically mentioned higher tiered players gathering too many revives. Then why not base the availability on progression, like you do in stores. As Cav, it costs me WAY MORE to buy items, than Thronebreaker. Can’t you reverse that when it comes to farming, based on progression? Just make it tougher as you progress. That seems logical and fair.
Ok before everyone disagrees let me put out some context. Of course we would all like things to stay as they are but that probably won’t happen but I think I came up with a decent solution.
What if there was a hard cap on the amount of revives we could have at once?
No unlimited revive farming into overflow, just a hard cap. I think a fair limit for this cap would be 50 of the t1 revives. That way most people could still do the content without the need for tons of arena or spending and we don’t run into the issue of people trivializing content by saving hundreds of revives.
Of course you could bypass this cap by spending units on t2 revives which won’t have the cap so if you really need to you can grind arena for those extra revives.
Again, this is just a proposed solution which I think is a decent compromise so if you guys want to add your voice as well feel free to.
Nah. No middle ground here. Sorry. This an anti-player move, period.
I fairly think this is one of the best decissions they could make, content is done too easily by people that are not even skilled enough to do it just spamming revives, so this encourages people to try to learn how to really play the game properly, not only this but makes the challenging things challenging, when people is able to do this content the first day it goes out just spamming 60 revives that means that something must be done, If anyone thinks that 2 revives PER DAY is not enough, that only shows how bad people became. Getting revives became way easier than before, so I think is fair to nerf the amount we can get by farming them.
The main problem I see here, is that they done this in the worst moment possible, since people need more revives because everything in the game is bugged, so they should have waited a little bit more to make this changes until they fixed at least half of the bugs they have currently in game.
And to be fair with Kabam, this is not a charity, this is a company, we already get almost everything free, I dont think its that bad to have to play more Arenas to get more revives for the hard content, or spending to get them.
I think its just a bad timing, but a really good decission, I expect a lot of disagrees but sorry fams, I dont think this is about opinions, since I repeat, you dont need more than 2 revives a day, or you shouldnt need them, If you need them then that means you are not playing properly, so you should try to change it, you dont wanna try to improve your skills? Then I think it is fair to pay for the revives then, and I say this being a F2P player.
It’s not even guaranteed revives it’s a 1% and 5%
Wrong, everyday you get 1 revive exploring the hard difficulty, and another one by the daily quest, and seriously, we shouldnt need to relay on revives to do content, if we need some revives because it is hard content, okay, fair, but people try to speed up things just spamming revives, thats not the way to progress.
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
People trying to complete content with no access to farming revives perhaps..
Just "people?" Sure, but which people who don't have access to farming revives? Everyone keeps saying this is a cash grab. But how many of them are actually planning on spending cash because of this cash grab?
It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.
I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.
Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.
If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.
The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.
So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.
This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.
I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.
You pretty conveniently skipped over the solution that has been mentioned several times in this thread: item cap the quest then tune the difficulty so that it’s feasible. If its not about monetizing (it is) then this is the most obvious solution and the one which doesn’t screw the player base
Thank you for your feedback, we are reading every comment. Please keep your messages constructive; most of you have so far, thank you for that.
Based on the feedback in this thread, we have started internal discussions around adjusting revive/potion inventory caps. This is not a guaranteed change, but is what is most prominently being discussed.
These conversations will continue to take place behind the scenes and could grow to include other potential adjustments as well.
We will use this thread to provide updates if/when we have news to share.
Lifting the cap on revives/potions entirely seems like the only fair way to address the difficulty of some of the more challenging content like EOP. It was designed around the state of the game at the time which factored in revive farming. The average player is not going to be able to handle that with less than 50 revives going into it. I feel like this is all just a roundabout way of nerfing Hercules without nerfing him. I think the reception would be better if you guys just ripped the bandaid and nerfed him already so content doesn’t need to be overtuned and resource farming doesn’t need to be completely shut down
Weird how the discussion keeps bobbing back to Hercules. Kabam has shown that they are willing to nerf a champ and will weather the momentary backlash. It's not Hercules. The money they've banked from players trying to get Hercules absolutely mega-swamps the amount of money they theoretically never got because players didn't have to buy as many revives, especially when people keep talking about how broken and indispensable he is whenever Kabam does anything that can be spun as anti-player.
I fairly think this is one of the best decissions they could make, content is done too easily by people that are not even skilled enough to do it just spamming revives, so this encourages people to try to learn how to really play the game properly, not only this but makes the challenging things challenging, when people is able to do this content the first day it goes out just spamming 60 revives that means that something must be done, If anyone thinks that 2 revives PER DAY is not enough, that only shows how bad people became. Getting revives became way easier than before, so I think is fair to nerf the amount we can get by farming them.
The main problem I see here, is that they done this in the worst moment possible, since people need more revives because everything in the game is bugged, so they should have waited a little bit more to make this changes until they fixed at least half of the bugs they have currently in game.
And to be fair with Kabam, this is not a charity, this is a company, we already get almost everything free, I dont think its that bad to have to play more Arenas to get more revives for the hard content, or spending to get them.
I think its just a bad timing, but a really good decission, I expect a lot of disagrees but sorry fams, I dont think this is about opinions, since I repeat, you dont need more than 2 revives a day, or you shouldnt need them, If you need them then that means you are not playing properly, so you should try to change it, you dont wanna try to improve your skills? Then I think it is fair to pay for the revives then, and I say this being a F2P player.
Farming disagrees? How will that help your progression?
You should progress playing better, making your roster bigger, and getting resources playing if you dont want to spend money, but being able to farm the amount of revives you want because the challenges are too challenging for you is just nonsense.
If im not able to do X content, I shouldnt just spam revives, I should see why and fix it, If its because im not good enough, I improve my skills, if its because I dont have certain champions, I try to farm shards to look for them or grind arena to get those.
And as I said, I dont think they should make this change NOW, since the game is completely bugged, but it is not a bad change itself.
That’s such a dumb take. Everest content is literally impossible to do reviveless for most people. Carina challenges force you to use champs in non ideal matchups and most good players spent around 40 revives per path if they don’t have Hercules. The game issues also completely invalidate any skill that a player has, so unless you think every player is MSD, this isn’t happening.
But yeah, just say “gEt GoOd” as if that’s the problem here. Revive farming helps f2p players do the content without spending what units they’ve saved up. This isn’t a matter of skill, it’s a matter of having a Hercules and revive spamming through the rest of the content, even if you’re that good.
Yes, it is a bad change. Players need these revives for content like this and it was a good avenue for f2p players.
Comments
If you actually care about what you say instead of giving lip service, you would:
1. Admit that it's only ftp revives you are capping, but paid revives are no problem
2. Add a item limit to such quests to create a challenge
3. Still allow the biggest exploiters of loophole the game itself in the form of modding, where basically nothing is done about it.
And since we're at it, I know we're discussing something else here but a comment on the AI thread would be nice as well. It's kinda related as what we're discussing right now is the removal of one of the only ways to mitigate that problem.
PS: i know there's a garantee revive exploring the quest, i meant the additional one...why even made that quote when you clearly rely on rng in order to get more than 1 revive?
LMAO
I want to add that this is very unfair for newer players, who have not attempted any of the endgame content yet. Everyone who did Abyss and EOP before them was able to take advantage of revive farming, so why can’t they?
Also what about changes and actions the community and player base has been begging for months? No permanent bans against modders. It's only fair to also listen to the player base's concerns. Not to mention bugs which there are tons of right now. Many of those are related to the AI like launching SP3 without 3 bars, coming out of stuns too quickly, randomly speeding up, etc
If im not able to do X content, I shouldnt just spam revives, I should see why and fix it, If its because im not good enough, I improve my skills, if its because I dont have certain champions, I try to farm shards to look for them or grind arena to get those.
And as I said, I dont think they should make this change NOW, since the game is completely bugged, but it is not a bad change itself.
Content has always been hard, not just now.
I will definitely quit if this goes ahead.
What if there was a hard cap on the amount of revives we could have at once?
No unlimited revive farming into overflow, just a hard cap. I think a fair limit for this cap would be 50 of the t1 revives. That way most people could still do the content without the need for tons of arena or spending and we don’t run into the issue of people trivializing content by saving hundreds of revives.
Of course you could bypass this cap by spending units on t2 revives which won’t have the cap so if you really need to you can grind arena for those extra revives.
Again, this is just a proposed solution which I think is a decent compromise so if you guys want to add your voice as well feel free to.
As Cav, it costs me WAY MORE to buy items, than Thronebreaker.
Can’t you reverse that when it comes to farming, based on progression?
Just make it tougher as you progress. That seems logical and fair.
Wrong, everyday you get 1 revive exploring the hard difficulty, and another one by the daily quest, and seriously, we shouldnt need to relay on revives to do content, if we need some revives because it is hard content, okay, fair, but people try to speed up things just spamming revives, thats not the way to progress.
Nail, Coffin, MCOC
But yeah, just say “gEt GoOd” as if that’s the problem here. Revive farming helps f2p players do the content without spending what units they’ve saved up. This isn’t a matter of skill, it’s a matter of having a Hercules and revive spamming through the rest of the content, even if you’re that good.
Yes, it is a bad change. Players need these revives for content like this and it was a good avenue for f2p players.