Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

Not quite sure where to start with all this.

But initial feelings are... outrage.

Ya'll really trying to get us to stop playing the game?

Random thoughts about this:

1) Revives are available but at a significantly less rate
2) Revive drop rates were always higher than intended? Since when? Transparency...
3) No Auto option? What the what? Why? Should have the opportunity to auto-complete this after exploring once.
4)

Comments

TyEdge

Not to oppose you, but the cap is 28 (15 in inventory and 12 in overflow, bcs they last 14 days, over which you can get 12 extra revives)

Still tho, even a single lane with 3 revives used (which can easily happen) means wasting 3 days worth of revives, which is pretty big slow down

That doesn’t include daily events or 4-hour crystals. You can have 14 from daily events plus 7 more in unclaimed rewards if you’re good about hitting the third milestone and only claim it as it expires. It’s an incredibly annoying way to do it though

Indominusrex

So Kabam is nerfing the revive farm because they

don't want players to simply "spam revives" at DIFFICULT content... Also Kabam: *Hey here's a carina challenge where

you need to use 4 STARS in Labyrinth of Legends*

4 Star champs are literally FORCED to use multiple revives to take down a single fight in Labyrinth with how the Enrage timer works.

VanillaCoke

Eternity of Pain dropped January 18. 20 days later, @Kabam Jax makes a troll comment “what are you guys doing?”

Don’t act like you guys didn’t know about this. But now it’s inconvenient for you to have this content get done efficiently? As @Lagacy stated in his video, revives didn’t trivialize the content (as you’re stating) - Hercules trivialized the content when you decided to put a Choice Node in Eternity of Pain.

unknown

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Indominusrex

Many player do quit game and some join mod . Thanks to kabam. No Logic.

Jazz_Messenger

I’m a F2P player and farm revives occasionally. I’m not necessarily against the upcoming changes and don’t mind spending units when necessary. However, I feel that other things need to be adjusted as well:

1. Double inventory caps of revives and potions
2. Extend expiry of revives and potions to 30 days
3. Adjust difficulty of endgame contents

I get hard contents for better rewards, and they may not be for everyone. But some are just ridiculous - for example, 4* in LoL for Carina’s Challenge.

Bugmat78

Even MSD uses revives - he may post an itemless run of hard content but he didnt do that content in one go, first try. Same for every other skilled player youtube or not. This is a bad move.

I spend and farm - I will do less of the former the more I can do less of the latter.

Probably for the best really. I might eventually go into semiretirement and just do friendly BGs with my 3* as those are still attainable without cash (for now).

Truthseeker

Many player do quit game and some join mod . Thanks to kabam. No Logic.

Yeah ban is very low time anyway right? Maybe just use mods and get banned for a week? (Sarcasm but not really)

H3t3r

A good compromise and IMO better then leaving revives in 3.2.6 is add them to the EQ. Make it so each difficulty gives ~12 revives guaranteed. Might be less then what you could get per month from 3.2.6 but at least you aren't splitting energy to another Thing.

Ravens20

What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
People trying to complete content with no access to farming revives perhaps..
Just "people?" Sure, but which people who don't have access to farming revives? Everyone keeps saying this is a cash grab. But how many of them are actually planning on spending cash because of this cash grab?

It can't be a cash grab if no one actually spends on it. And while I'm sure someone somewhere will spend something, it won't be an effective cash grab unless a large number of players spend.

I don't think this has anything to do with monetization, because there is simply not enough money on the table. The problem is a much more direct problem with top tier content balancing.

Content in this game is balanced in large part on a curve. Which is to say, the more players who complete it, the easier it is. The fewer players that complete it, or the more players that attempt it and fail, the harder it is. That's the definition of content difficulty. It isn't hard because it looks hard on paper. Its hard if we can't do it.

If we all go into EoP with a hundred revives, we're going to tear through it like it is tissue paper. This shows up in the game data as a massive imbalance between the rewards and the measured difficulty of the content. This means one of two things: EoP-like content must now have much lower rewards, or EoP-like content must be diesigned vastly harder until the content is measured to be difficult enough to be appropriate.

The devs can't just "let us use the revives" because they can't just make the content and then let us do whatever we want to it. That's not how games like this are maintained. If we use tons of consumables to beat the content, the content will have to adjust to that.

So what's it going to be? Eventually have all end game content *only* doable with hundreds of revives, and if you don't farm hundreds of consumables it will just be impossible for you? Or have end game content have trivial rewards appropriate to the fact that pretty much everyone sails through it? Or reduce the flow of otherwise practically unlimited consumables and allow content to be balanced around players having a more manageable amount of consumables to throw at the content.

This problem is independent of monetization and has nothing to do with it. Whether Kabam makes more, less, or the same amount of money, they still have to solve this problem. Exponentially increase the difficulty, logarithmically lower the rewards, or reduce unlimited consumable farming. You have to pick one. And as someone who used to farm potions and revives enough to actually know the statistical average return of those maps accurately, of those three options I dislike the third one the least.

I won't like seeing my revive farms disappear. But I think I would like seeing all future end game content be designed in such a way that neutralizes that advantage even less. Once it gets hard enough that even the top tier players are going to need hundreds of revives to complete it, what are players like me supposed to do? We'd be locked out completely. But that's where this ultimately goes, if it is left unchecked.

I would respectfully disagree here , Kabam can put a revive item limit if spamming revive was an issue, I feel they’re not asking why players are doing this and what are solutions, I think the timing and execution of this is just bad and the best players in this game I see farm revives , there’s some fights and restrictions in game that make it impossible to do without a few revive, to say we are changing the RNG in farming to add later 1% chance and 5 % chance if I’m not mistaken that’s also RNG so that made no sense, well to me it didn’t , and what’s going to stop players that have 20k units via farming arena etc to just keep getting 40% revives until the fight is down they’re still spamming revives just with units, as I said the timing, solution and execution of this is horrible, they could do two things increase revive and potion cap and increase the drop rate in 4 hour daily crystal base on progression 20% and 40% revive and level 4 and 5 health potion 🧪 .

monomugg

you still have to spend energy refills to do the farming. it's not like it's entirely free 🥲

TheKiryu

Not that i am anyone’s favourite person on these forums but for what its worth here is my general take on my I absolutely disagree with the way kabam is doing this

https://youtu.be/bjM_EeiEH9I

And here is my predicted fallout of this situation , and it is not a good one.

https://youtu.be/NNrIUZg3MRg

I will upload my proposed solutions to this problem later in the day.

Moosetiptronic

@BigPoppaCBONE you're right.

I can't think of a single piece of static content in the last 4 years that hasn't required revives in quite large amounts for everyone except MSD, Bero and Swedeah.

The collector, the champion, a number of act 6 bosses, labyrinth, Abyss, gauntlet, EOP and all Carina's.

And while it's easy to place the blame at herc's door, you're bang on: we used to use corvus, omega red and importantly, Aegon before this, plus others. Aegon with Heimdall with heavy counter? Ghost with power boosts?

Plus no one is trivialising EOP Carina with herc. Yes the first 4 fights on the right can be done in 3-6 revives. But then herc is gone. The rest of that mess is taking revives and fistfuls of them, for everyone but the very best.

This is a cash grab. My 14.2 k prestige alliance has had 2 quit from this news. I'm expecting a lot more.

Furrymoosen

Not that i am anyone’s favourite person on these forums but for what its worth here is my general take on my I absolutely disagree with the way kabam is doing this

https://youtu.be/bjM_EeiEH9I

And here is my predicted fallout of this situation , and it is not a good one.

https://youtu.be/NNrIUZg3MRg

I will upload my proposed solutions to this problem later in the day.

Thank you, KT, for using your platform to consistently and fairly call out Kabam for their nonsense. We’re glad you’re here for the fight.

unknown

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Unforgvn

Please Kabam don't punish us first and then fix things. Fix things first and then punish us.

KLZ

I'm a non-farmer Ftp player, and i really like the Apothecary idea, but the rewards need seriously boosted, like:
- easy path, 1× L4 potion/ completion, and 1×L1 revive/ exploration
- hard path, 1* L5 potion/ completion, and 1*L2 revive/ exploration
- whole week quests, and on the 7th day replace every potion/ revive with same level team ones..
- no Rng based rewards!
- 1 energy quests!
- remove the caps for potions and revives, and introduce percentage based health potions

This way we can get about 50 single revives and 8 team revives per month, which looks decent.

* For this situation, both Kabam and players are to be blamed: Kabam for allowing farming, and 'heavy farmers' that make hundreds of revives and finish new endgame content in day 1, and complain that they're bored and need harder content..

Gildarts99

Please Kabam don't punish us first and then fix things. Fix things first and then punish us.

why are you being so polite sir/ madam? it's their game. well seems that's what they think anyways, so yhh let them do whatever it is they wanna. we complaining wouldn't change their minds. we know them. oh, where is our compensation for these silly input issues? yeah right.

Broe1313

I don't know if I speak for everyone here but paying to complete or play the game isn't what most people want. I don't mind throwing some money at new champs or whatever because that's fun and exciting. Having to pay to play the game kind of just makes me question why I play.

Spamming revives? Some of the end game content isn't beatable without a significant amount of revives and that's by design. Only a co uple players in this game can one shot all of the bs nodes and objectives that are created for end game players.

You might have to reduce rewards? Just stop or we might have to reduce expenditures.

Stantona

Not that i am anyone’s favourite person on these forums but for what its worth here is my general take on my I absolutely disagree with the way kabam is doing this

https://youtu.be/bjM_EeiEH9I

And here is my predicted fallout of this situation , and it is not a good one.

https://youtu.be/NNrIUZg3MRg

I will upload my proposed solutions to this problem later in the day.

Your my favourite person on this forum

No beating around the bush and say it as it is.

I actually think the whole entire idea is just petty if anything else. Everyone knows modding through the 'endgame content' is the real issue so battle this first before strangling the genuine players for enjoying the game as it is

Jorn

I'm a non-farmer Ftp player, and i really like the Apothecary idea, but the rewards need seriously boosted, like:
- easy path 1× L4 potion/ completion, and 1×L1 revive/ exploration
- hard path 1* L5 potion/ comoletion, and 1*L2 revive/ exploration
- whole week quests, and on the 7th day replace every potion/ revive with same level team ones..
- 1 energy quests!
- remove the caps for potions and revives, and introduce percentage based health potions

This way we can get about 50 single revives and 8 team revives per month, which looks decent.

* For this situation, both Kabam and heavy farmers are to be blamed: Kabam for allowing farming, and those players that farm hundreds of revives and finish new endgame content in day one, and complain that they're bored and need harder content..

As a daily casual farmer for f2p progress at my own tempo this i would actually like with the cap inventory increase. But on the other hand. If i like it. Kabam wouldnt 😂

Real_Madrid_76_2

At this point, i don't even know what should I type, all the criticism and rage is already shown by all comments on this topic. I only have one thing to say...

Dear Kabam,

Don't nerf these small things which make us feel happy, satisfied for the game, revive farming was the only way players could remove progression barriers on their way in story content, u shouldn't have done this to us

sad FTP noises🥲🥲😭😭

Miss u, rip revive farming

Ironman3000

Well good thing they took out the RNG of hoping a revive pops up on a path...

Lone_wolf77

Time to quit or start cheating. If they can't fix all the **** bugs in game they should let people farm revives like they have for past year plus. But instead of fixing they let it go until people got used to it.

unknown

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Axew

At minimum they need to double the caps for revives and potions and increase the number of revives in this Apothecary quest. We shouldn’t accept anything less, this change obviously isn’t necessary and is motivated by other factors ($$$).

Ironman3000

I actually haven't done the permanent EoP paths yet, so I will take that as an interesting challenge.
I’m genuinely curious how many units you or anyone would be required to spend to get through that going forward. Lagacy spent 2K units even in addition to mass revive farming and he’s one of the best players in the game.
I'm not anywhere in Lagacy's class, so I'm pretty sure it is going to be a whole lot more than 2k. I was going to farm it out, just like everyone else, but I'm probably not going to make a mad dash for it while the farms are still here. That's not how I roll with content in general.
So you don't play in high tier alliance and haven't completed difficult content?

It's funny how those who don't complete the hardest content are the ones who aren't upset about this change.

Qwerty12345

Once this is put into place, having any content that isn't soloable (at least by a top summoner like MSD) such as the Carina Vol1 challanges... needs to be nerfed (e.g. allow 6 stars instead of 4 stars).

Leslie316

Dear Kabam,please consider about this, modders will be giggle about this nerf

Draconic_12

This is going to be relevant from now on